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[Walliwallipaloo]

but it's just insane to write off his entire output based on his social media views as an opiate addict.

Well, I've kinda said my part, y'know, regarding my opinions of his work. But I do have to clarify: my opinions are not based on social media. This site is literally the closest thing to social media that I do. I don't follow his Twitter or whatever - my problem with Stephen King is based entirely on my opinions regarding his actual creative output.

For example, I didn't even know about that. Don't judge him for it, either. Hell, to be perfectly honest, I know next to nothing about the man's private life, or that he was ever involved in a car accident. Falling into an addiction like that sounds absolutely terrifying to me, and I completely sympathize.

I don't have some sort of vendetta against the man - I greatly dislike his body of work, based entirely on the quality of his work and nothing else.

I really, really hate the movies based on his work in particular. They actually had us watch a lot of his films in school, which - looking back - strikes me as thoroughly ridiculous.

Well, anyway.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I've been avoiding his newer books for quite some time now. Thankfully his list of classics is so big I'm in no danger of running out of things to read.

 

[Risible]

I just see a whole lot of garbage. No, seriously. All of that is basically the sort of low-brow junk that's been bringing down cinema for years. The shit I hated as a kid and utterly despise as an adult.

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. So's freaking Coca-Cola, and that's basically poison in a can.

That's Stephen King. Poison, in "written" form.

He and so many of his ilk have been "woke" all along. It's just now they (mistakenly) think now's their time, since in a lot of places you're all but straight-up carted to jail for voicing opinions his people don't like. Hell, in some places, like the UK, you are.

Dude, if you can look at a list that includes The Shining, Stand By Me, Shawshank, Misery, and Carrie and claim they are all shit then I don't know what to say. You're so blinded by the idea of "woke" (whatever the fuck you have deemed that to mean in your head) that you are just talking nonsense at this point. Again, if you said they weren't to your taste it's one thing, it's a whole other thing to claim they are bad movies. That's basically just objectively wrong.

 

[Risible]

I've been avoiding his newer books for quite some time now. Thankfully his list of classics is so big I'm in no danger of running out of things to read.

I would find a tier list and read the first 20 to 25 or so, you can't go wrong.

 

[kittoo]

Dude wrote a book in 1986 where 11 year old boys run a train on an 11 year old girl and everyone just kinda shrugged it off and pretends that never happened.

I knew what was about to come when I was reading the book but boy was I still not ready for it. It comes suddenly for no rhyme or reason and what the hell was "ben was so big it hurt" stuff about? I mean it's 11 years olds doing gangbang. WTF Stephen! And his reasoning was that they were no longer kids after that. Get them to do some taxes then God damn!

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

FTFY. Heh, sorry, couldn't help it.

We have an irreconcilable difference of opinion, here. That needle's not gonna move in either direction, and that's cool. Suffice it to say, I find that his output has always been extremely vulgar - as in low. Base. Watching the movies just made me feel gross when I was younger.

Dude, HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HIS BOOKS AT ALL???

You mention movies and TV shows, which are ADAPTATIONS of King's NOVELS and short stories. I'm afraid you are ranting without the slightest clue of Stephen King's writing skills.

You CANT judge his books by the adaptations. For many reasons, the main one being that what makes S.King unique is his author's voice, the way he narrates and that's impossible to capture outside the books.

Stephen King, like Frank Herbert, Tolkien and other pioneers, is the guy who established lot of conventions that have been replicated a million times after them, but never surpassed.

 

[Walliwallipaloo]

Dude, HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HIS BOOKS AT ALL???

You mention movies and TV shows, which are ADAPTATIONS of King's NOVELS and short stories. I'm afraid you are ranting without the slightest clue of Stephen King's writing skills.

You CANT judge his books by the adaptations. For many reasons, the main one being that what makes S.King unique is his author's voice, the way he narrates and that's impossible to capture outside the books.

Stephen King, like Frank Herbert, Tolkien and other pioneers, is the guy who established lot of conventions that have been replicated a million times after them, but never surpassed.

Look, I get your passion, I really do. But comparing that dude to Tolkien and Herbert kinda makes me want to puke, dead serious. But, hey, it's obvious that neither of us is going to gain ground here against the other on this, and I've already said my piece. I could go into it more, but that really wouldn't avail either of us much. Not like I can realistically make you, like, throw out your book collection or anything. Not what I'm trying to do anyway.

Stephen King is a misanthrope who focuses on nasty, disgusting, border-line fetishistic tropes and I find his "stories" to be fundamentally repellant. That's my view, and as you can see, it's not one that you're liable to change.

Regarding the movies, I mean, we're shifting the goalposts a little here saying "well, the movies don't count!" when... yeah, they kinda do, and that last post was a response to my apparently poor taste in movies. I'm a bad judge of what makes a good movie, though, I'll admit, because I haven't seriously watched a movie for... what, more than a decade? I have a great disdain for Hollywood, too, so... "Good" is very subjective here.

Like, if you want a deeper explanation of my rationale, I could give it to you for the purposes of discourse/general amusement. But I really can't do much with "you have awful taste, do you even read him, dude?"

I mean, yes, I have. So... IDK?

You're so blinded by the idea of "woke"

Um, no? I feel like my reasonings were pretty clear.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Look, I get your passion, I really do. But comparing that dude to Tolkien and Herbert kinda makes me want to puke, dead serious. But, hey, it's obvious that neither of us is going to gain ground here against the other on this, and I've already said my piece. I could go into it more, but that really wouldn't avail either of us much. Not like I can realistically make you, like, throw out your book collection or anything. Not what I'm trying to do anyway.

Stephen King is a misanthrope who focuses on nasty, disgusting, border-line fetishistic tropes and I find his "stories" to be fundamentally repellant. That's my view, and as you can see, it's not one that you're liable to change.

Regarding the movies, I mean, we're shifting the goalposts a little here saying "well, the movies don't count!" when... yeah, they kinda do, and that last post was a response to my apparently poor taste in movies. I'm a bad judge of what makes a good movie, though, I'll admit, because I haven't seriously watched a movie for... what, more than a decade? I have a great disdain for Hollywood, too, so... "Good" is very subjective here.

Like, if you want a deeper explanation of my rationale, I could give it to you for the purposes of discourse/general amusement. But I really can't do much with "you have awful taste, do you even read him, dude?"

I mean, yes, I have. So... IDK?

Shawshank was nominated for best picture. I mean, I don't really care for the Godfather movies, but I wouldn't call them SHIT as you did all those movies. It's just not for me and I recognize they are well made movies that people love. Your opinion is an outlier.

 

[Walliwallipaloo]

Shawshank was nominated for best picture. I mean, I don't really care for the Godfather movies, but I wouldn't call them SHIT as you did all those movies. It's just not for me and I recognize they are well made movies that people love. Your opinion is an outlier.

I would posit that good taste is an outlier, but, well, to be perfectly honest, that's just me being a little cheeky.

It's just what I feel, man, and I've got my reasons. I admit, I certainly haven't watched them all. But I've seen enough. And besides, I don't particularly seek out movies of that type regardless of their source material.

I wouldn't try to compare Nightmare on Elm Street to Friday the 13th, for example. Those aren't for me. But at the same time, I will say that movies designed around the murder of innocent people are trash, and are bad for the medium as well as bad for the viewer. So, am I qualified to rate horror ( and I should say, "slasher," because I actually do like horror as a genre in concept) movies against one another, because I (generally) hate their kind? Probably not. I'm not part of that clique. But that doesn't mean I need to toss out my rationale for disliking that genre.

It's sort of like that. Actually, it's a lot like that, only - unlike slasher films - I've actually given King a fair shake. And I've been all but forced to endure some of those films, too.

So... Kinda looping around a little, I guess.

 

[jason10mm]

I would posit that good taste is an outlier, but, well, to be perfectly honest, that's just me being a little cheeky.

It's just what I feel, man, and I've got my reasons. I admit, I certainly haven't watched them all. But I've seen enough. And besides, I don't particularly seek out movies of that type regardless of their source material.

I wouldn't try to compare Nightmare on Elm Street to Friday the 13th, for example. Those aren't for me. But at the same time, I will say that movies designed around the murder of innocent people are trash, and are bad for the medium as well as bad for the viewer. So, am I qualified to rate horror ( and I should say, "slasher," because I actually do like horror as a genre in concept) movies against one another, because I (generally) hate their kind? Probably not. I'm not part of that clique. But that doesn't mean I need to toss out my rationale for disliking that genre.

See, that's the secret sauce of slasher flicks lost to modern versions. The 'victims' in classic slasher films were IMMORAL people, or at least partaking in immoral acts. Sex, drugs, snooping, lust, adultery, etc. Virtually everyone was guilty of some sin, at least from a straight laced puritanical POV. It wasn't until the torture porn era or the revisionist post-scream flicks which eschewed the morality based kill list.

 

[Mistake]

I heard he got into a car accident a long time ago and almost died. Ever since then he was never the same

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Look, I get your passion, I really do. But comparing that dude to Tolkien and Herbert kinda makes me want to puke, dead serious. But,

I'm just asking if you have read his books. Movies are not a valid reference, no matter how faithful they are to the source material. Stephen King has two very strong suits:

- The narrator voice.

- The ability to mix genres and make his stories take unexpected turns. And for this reason his books mostly don't get good movie adaptations. This style works only in books, not in movies. Some things look cringe or inappropriate (in the narrative sense) on the screen, but not when you read them.

The Dark Tower saga is the best example. It's an amazing read but the mix of genres and tones makes it impossible to be understood by The Hunger Games crowd.

There is a sci-fi author, Michael Marshall Smith, who has these two qualities and he's not mainstream only because his books have surreal elements that would look weird in movies. Quality wise, he could be one of the greats.

 

[PhineasC]

Trump and COVID broke his brain. Same for Howard Stern and most other center-left entertainers. He's gone. Let him go.

 

[Durien]

You mention movies and TV shows, which are ADAPTATIONS of King's NOVELS and short stories. I'm afraid you are ranting without the slightest clue of Stephen King's writing skills.

You CANT judge his books by the adaptations. For many reasons, the main one being that what makes S.King unique is his author's voice, the way he narrates and that's impossible to capture outside the books.
.

Agree. The Shining, while a great movie adaptation, can't compete with the book. I found there are actually only a handful of good adaptations.

I really liked Talisman and Eyes of the Dragon (funny because EotD is a fantasy book). I don't think I have read anything since and including Gerald's Game)

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Wait til you guys find out Clive Barker fucks men!

 

[Atomicfear]

isn't about 8/10 of that woke list stuff that showed up regularly in his past works anyway?

I think i just roll my eyes at anything covid commentary related in any kind of writing. That part is definitely dumb.

From the few books of his I read in the past, sure he was liberal, but he was never on the nose and specific about policies. Nor did he jump on the issue d'jour.

 

[Walliwallipaloo]

The Dark Tower saga is the best example.

Actually, the first few chapters of the Dark Tower were the last thing I tried. The book was gifted to my wife by her dad. We both were turned off instantly. I think that just highlights a fundamental incompatibility.

I've enjoyed the discussion, however, and I can respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them fundamentally.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Wait til you guys find out Clive Barker fucks men!

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Agree. The Shining, while a great movie adaptation, can't compete with the book. I found there are actually only a handful of good adaptations.

I really liked Talisman and Eyes of the Dragon (funny because EotD is a fantasy book). I don't think I have read anything since and including Gerald's Game)

The Shining is one of the rare cases (the other is The Mist) that I think the movie is better than the book, despite some egregious plot holes and mistakes made by Kubrik.

I enjoyed The Eyes of the Dragon. Being a classic young adult fantasy it's strange it didn't get an adaptation.

Actually, the first few chapters of the Dark Tower were the last thing I tried. The book was gifted to my wife by her dad. We both were turned off instantly. I think that just highlights a fundamental incompatibility.

I've enjoyed the discussion, however, and I can respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them fundamentally.

The first book of TDT is not easy to read. King might have been high when he wrote it. In the second, the story lifts off. It's a very enjoyable book, I have taken a few things from it for my own use.. I loved the saga till the 4th. After that, it's as if someone else had taken over. The ending is a complete disaster. Shameful.

One of the bad things in King's writing (often said by himself) is his endings. He's the kind of guy who starts writing without a clear idea in his mind. No writer should ever start a long saga without an approximate idea of how it will end. I love improvising too, but the ending must be set in stone before writing the first line.

 

[Clear]

King's done some great work over the years, but once he got sober and started to try and be a "serious" writer the quality -which was inconsistent from day #1- really fell off hard.

The perfect example of his fall from grace can be best encapsulated between his 2 non-fiction commentary works on writing and the genre in general. "Danse Macabre" is a joy, its unpretentious, interesting, frequently self-effacing and fun, But by the time on "On Writing" its a hectoring, self-flagellating dirge that is borderline unreadable.

I sense at some point "imposter syndrome" kicked in over his massive success, and he started to play-act what his critics expected him to be.

I doubt if challenged he'd deny that a lot of his stuff skates-by on an easy-reading style and character-work, rather than anything innovative or challenging, and that he's always struggled to write a third act worth a shit.

 

[Poppinfresh]

The Dark Tower saga is the best example. It's an amazing read

The first few Dark Tower books are amazing, but the series falls off hard at the end.

Right around book 5 is where i was ready for everything to be over.

There is a sci-fi author, Michael Marshall Smith, who has these two qualities and he's not mainstream only because his books have surreal elements that would look weird in movies. Quality wise, he could be one of the greats.

The Straw Men trilogy is awesome, and I think it could easily be adapted to either a movie or a miniseries.

 

[IDKFA]

Stephen King went down hill when he became an unhinged far-left activist. He's not the only one. It happened to a lot of famous people, including Mark Hammill, George RR Martin, Ron Perlman, Bryan Cranston etc. Celebrities are just easily influenced and are arrogant enough to think they're changing the world.

 

[Risible]

Wait til you guys find out Clive Barker fucks men!

Wait, the guy that interrupted his horror short story "The Hills, The Cities" to write a steamy detailed passage about the two gay protagonists' hardcore bang sesh is gay? I am shocked, If only there had been some evidence!

 

[The Pleasure]

He's the GOAT in the horror/fantasy genre, no questions. His cultural impact is immeasureable.

However, there's one Stephen king before the accident and a different one after. The Dark Tower saga is a sad proof of this. Genius from 1-4, trash from 5-7.

Anyway, we will rarely have another S.King in our lifetimes.

 

[Artoris]

Is woke era over now

 

[SomeNorseGuy]

I stopped reading him after he rushed through the last 2 books of The Dark Tower series. Such an amazing series....then straight off the fucking cliff. My wife has given me some notes on his newer works and I'm glad I jumped off when I did.

 

[Drake]

The first couple Dark Tower novels were incredible. I got turned off around book 5 I think and didn't read past that.

As to what the OP said, I have heard similar sentiments. I haven't read one of his novels in probably 20 years although I will read The Stand eventually. So many other good authors out there anyway and too many great books not to waste time on his more modern output.

 

[Topher]

Agree. Stopped reading Stephen King years ago. I was a huge fan back in the 80s and 90s. Really sucks that he has turned into such an activist. No on reads him for that shit.

 

[darrylgorn]

Go woke, go broke!

Unless you're Stephen King.

 

[rkofan87]

Let me preface by saying he has become one of my favorite authors the last few years. The Stand, The Dark Tower, Pet Sematary, It, The Green Mile. I like his short stories even better. He's undoubtedly one of the best authors of the modern era. I follow him on twitter and know he has really gotten into talking about politics the last few years. Whatever, that is his prerogative and I don't care. I can separate the art from the artist no problem.

Which brings me to this pile of shit:

I needed something to listen to on my commute and saw this pop up in my recommendations on Spotify. Came out in 2023. Alright Stephen let's hear it.

Holy shit. Just in the first few hours:

- black kid murdered by police senselessly. Long diatribes about this.
- protag's mom is a trump supporter who refuses to take a Covid vaccine and dies.
- antagonists are evil white bigots
- gay Latin man victim
- gay, vegan, black woman victim
- long diatribes about name brand vaccines. Everyone is constantly saying which shots they got.
- a trailer park where the owner tells the protag Covid is a hoax.
- diatribes about climate change.

At this point at the trailer park when a woman knitting a sweater started talking about climate change I decided to tap out. Is he trying to get a job writing videogames or something? Absolutely embarrassing.

It feels so hamfisted and amateurish. If the book was good I would keep going but it's so slow. And to be clear I would feel the exact same way if he was shoehorning Ben Shapiro talking points into his books. It honestly made me sad because he was so incredibly good in the past. Is all of his modern stuff like this?

we all know king become trash after his accident.

 

[Kacho]

I stopped reading King in the mid-2000s. I enjoyed his work when I was in high school but his stories became dull and uninteresting as got older. His horror is too tame for me nowadays.

Here's a summary of the book in the OP. Not surprisingly based on his Twitter activity in recent years. He's clearly writing stories for a very specific audience now.

Holly is generally considered a well-written and engaging Stephen King novel, especially by fans of the Holly Gibney character and those who enjoy crime thrillers, though opinions vary. While the book features intense horror and a gripping plot, some readers found the overt political commentary divisive, and others felt the suspense was lessened by the early reveal of the villains. It is a crime novel with strong human-based horror, not supernatural elements, set against the backdrop of the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

[12Goblins]

Go woke, go broke!

Unless you're Stephen King.

 

[jason10mm]

we all know king become trash after his accident.

He clearly got TBI, and then a bad drug addiction.

 

[rkofan87]

He clearly got TBI, and then a bad drug addiction.

and now he has tds lol

 

[jason10mm]

and now he has tds lol

people with severe brain damage develop all sorts of mental illnesses

 

[Rival]

The last thing I read of King was Under the Dome. Loved it. Back in the day I read every one of his books. Talisman is probably my favorite. He's an unhinged weirdo now but that doesn't take away from his past work. But yeah not reading his new slop.

 

[Durien]

The last thing I read of King was Under the Dome. Loved it. Back in the day I read every one of his books. Talisman is probably my favorite. He's an unhinged weirdo now but that doesn't take away from his past work. But yeah not reading his new slop.

Actually this was the last.book I read by him as well and I did like it.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Agree. The Shining, while a great movie adaptation, can't compete with the book. I found there are actually only a handful of good adaptations.

I really liked Talisman and Eyes of the Dragon (funny because EotD is a fantasy book). I don't think I have read anything since and including Gerald's Game)

I read The Talisman and Black House last year and loved them

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I knew what was about to come when I was reading the book but boy was I still not ready for it. It comes suddenly for no rhyme or reason and what the hell was "ben was so big it hurt" stuff about? I mean it's 11 years olds doing gangbang. WTF Stephen! And his reasoning was that they were no longer kids after that. Get them to do some taxes then God damn!

The bolded made me chuckle.

 

[Artoris]

Mr Mercedes was not bad but that was just before woke

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Even Brandon Sanderson, who you'd think is influential enough to get published regardless, started leaning more heavily into these themes with the latest Stormlight archive book.

Sanderson is like a comfort food for people not reading fantasy normally. He knows this. There is no way you can keep high quality output if you are releasing almost one 1000 page novel per year. Mistborn was good, I couldn't get past 20% of the Stormlight archive.

I am mostly on the Warhammer 40K or LotGH binge, so (for now) I'm safe from people arguing over White Guilt.

 

[jason10mm]

My kid is watching Welcome to Derry with me and is really getting into the King universe. I think I might spring some of the classics on him, like Christine, Cat's Eye, Firestarter. He's definitely too young and chicken for The Shining or Pet Semetary. Might do the more recent IT films. Carrie I don't think he'll be interested in, though the school aspect might hold him. Cujo is a possibility, and I've already shown him bits of Maximum Overdrive, which is my most guilty King pleasure.

 

[Topher]

My kid is watching Welcome to Derry with me and is really getting into the King universe. I think I might spring some of the classics on him, like Christine, Cat's Eye, Firestarter. He's definitely too young and chicken for The Shining or Pet Semetary. Might do the more recent IT films. Carrie I don't think he'll be interested in, though the school aspect might hold him. Cujo is a possibility, and I've already shown him bits of Maximum Overdrive, which is my most guilty King pleasure.

Eyes of the Dragon is really good as well. Especially for kids.

 

[ssringo]

Eyes of the Dragon is really good as well. Especially for kids.

As a kid I read all of my Mom's Stephen King collection and this one was my favorite by a long shot. I believe he wrote it for his own kid.

 

[spookyfish]

Everything he's ever made is underscored with black-spirited misanthropy. If that's your jam, that's your jam. Not judging.

EDIT: it's not as though misanthropy is in itself a problem. For example, I found that I liked some of Harlan Ellison's works, and that guy was just shockingly hateful and miserable.

I think it was Doctor Sleep that finally hit me over the head with "He really does love the graphic depictions of killing/torturing children." Kinda made me start stepping away.

 

[jason10mm]

Eyes of the Dragon is really good as well. Especially for kids.

My kid, sadly, isn't much of a reader, but I did like that one. I'm VERY surprised it hasn't been adapted or at least rolled into some sort of Randall Flagg multiverse thing.

The notion of that (spoilers for a what, 40 yo old book?) kid stripping threads from his linen for what, 10+ years, thinking he was gonna get caught but there was actually a giant warehouse full of napkins is just made for a tragic montage.

 

[Poppinfresh]

I think it was Doctor Sleep that finally hit me over the head with "He really does love the graphic depictions of killing/torturing children." Kinda made me start stepping away.

The dude has always had an unhealthy obsession with kids - both in terms of sexualizing them and putting them in terrible situations.

I can't think of another horror author who writes about kids as much as King.

Definite pedo (or worse) vibes.

 

[Ribi]

His movies have always been ass and people who think his shit is scary have lobotomies

 

[Topher]

His movies have always been ass and people who think his shit is scary have lobotomies

 

[jason10mm]

The dude has always had an unhealthy obsession with kids - both in terms of sexualizing them and putting them in terrible situations.

I can't think of another horror author who writes about kids as much as King.

Definite pedo (or worse) vibes.

Dean Koontz has kids feature prominently in his books. Usually an adult protagonist, sure, but he's not afraid to imperil children. I don't read a ton of horror, TBH, but plenty classics in the genre feature or are centered around children/teens. Its a common reference point for readers and a time of transition that breeds a lot of uncertainty that can be paralleled in horror. High school metaphors of course are oft exploited in horror, especially film, and the slasher tropes of punishing immorality play well with teen/YA characters.

I think King does a great job with character. He is rarely repetitive and wow can that guy summon up a wacky scenario for his books. Very few revisits, rehashes, or sequels either.