Did everyone get the Extraction genre wrong?

Did games enthusiasts miss on the Extraction genres potential?

  • Yes. The genre will see considerable growth in the next few years.

  • Undecided

  • No. I still don't think the genre has much room for growth.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Men_in_Boxes

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the first half of Jaws center on the Sherriff trying to warn the townsfolk about the incoming threat of a Great White shark...and nobody believes him?



I've been fascinated by the Extraction genre for over a year now and I've been amazed at how universally "games enthusiasts" don't see it as the next big thing. Everyone from notable members in games media to regular forum posters have been pessimistic about its market future. Arguments usually boil down to two main points...

1. The genre is too hardcore in nature to appeal to the masses.
2. The genre is too saturated for new titles to thrive.

I've always found these two points to be flimsy but I've never been effective at getting people to move off their position. The majority willing to engage in this conversation have been adamant that the genre has plateued.

This week, ARC Raiders did numbers that likely put it on track to be the biggest new IP of 2025 and an indie title with 0 fanfare (Escape from Duckov) broke 300,000 copies sold in 2 days.

There is a point in Jaws where people start believing the Sherriff. All the evidence produced by him starts making sense when beachgoers see that fin in the water.

Did the masses get this genre wrong or am I delusional?

feelings-i-am.gif
 
Maybe it is also finally the year of the great arena shooter revival. In this day most people just don't stick with games where they feel like target dummys for pro players and cheats. They have alternatives.
 
Think of it from pubs pov- they dont wanna make good/great game, they just wanna make game with great monetisation so they can scam players out of their hard earned money, with that attitude/purpose no extraction game will be amazing, some will be okish but thats it, they will be gone like fart in the wind :)
 
They will always only appeal to a specific type of player.

All it takes is someone to waste an hour hunting down rare gear, only for a camper or cheater to steal it for most people to uninstall. The 9 to 5 audience ain't wasting their precious free time doing that.
 
Every time someone tries to explain this genre to me, i always feel like it's just some additional mode in a typical old online shooter. How's that even a whole genre?

It's like making a whole genre out of a random Capture The Flag mode.
 
ARC Raiders was F2P over the weekend and basically acted as a timed demo. Impressions I saw on here were mixed at best.

I just don't think extraction has the ceiling that OP thinks it does. It's not like we haven't had extraction games, we've had them for a very long time at this point. At best ARC Raiders is the best version of it but I don't see what it is doing that will introduce it to some huge new audience, the way LOL made playing MOBA so much more simple and easy, or Fortnite which was PUBG but more polished, free, and multiplatform.
 
There are 3 events which will bring the genre in the spotlight in the near future...
1. ARC Raiders release
2. Tarkov on steam.
3. Marathon controversy and eventual release.

But i do see from where the skepticism is coming. This genre is oriented towards PC gaming right now and kinda missing on console. Since most of users here are console gamers, they are not expose to it and dont know what to make of it.
 
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NeverYouMind said:
Are you really going to compare a meme game to profitability of a whole genre?
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This is a valid defense.

However, I've personally noticed this term "meme game" get popular in the last year or two. I've particularly noticed it surrounding REPO, Lethal Company, and Peak.

To me, it's used when people can't understand the merit of a game and rather than understand it, they attempt to disregard it by calling it a "meme game".

ValiantInstance said:
They will always only appeal to a specific type of player.
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Don't all games appeal to a specific type of player? For example, Gran Turismo 7 appeals to people who like racing games.

My point has always been that this genre has relatively widespread appeal and will grow considerably in the coming years. It has not been that the genre appeals to all players.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
This is a valid defense.

However, I've personally noticed this term "meme game" get popular in the last year or two. I've particularly noticed it surrounding REPO, Lethal Company, and Peak.

To me, it's used when people can't understand the merit of a game and rather than understand it, they attempt to disregard it by calling it a "meme game".
Click to expand...
The issue is the relevance of a meme game is short lived, there is no real way to iterate on it, and there is no way to replicate it.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
My point has always been that this genre has relatively widespread appeal and will grow considerably in the coming years.
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It doesn't.


Men_in_Boxes said:
However, I've personally noticed this term "meme game" get popular in the last year or two. I've particularly noticed it surrounding REPO, Lethal Company, and Peak.
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No, it's when the game is literally a meme, and gets popular because of streamers and then brainrotted zoomers and alphas buy it to get in on it. They usually drop off as fast as they blow up.

Maybe the games are good maybe they are not but the games are literal memes.
 
Miles708 said:
Every time someone tries to explain this genre to me, i always feel like it's just some additional mode in a typical old online shooter. How's that even a whole genre?
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Do you feel it's more of a "mode" than tactical shooters like Valorant, hero shooters like Overwatch, or arena shooters like CoD?

Personally, I feel like Extraction towers above those genres in terms of heft.
 
diffusionx said:
It doesn't.
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What evidence would you need to see before you think "OK, I got this genre wrong. It has more widespread appeal than I thought?"

diffusionx said:
No, it's when the game is literally a meme, and gets popular because of streamers and then brainrotted zoomers and alphas buy it to get in on it. They usually drop off as fast as they blow up.
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If player drop off is evidence of a "meme game" then you're damning a ton of titles you don't intend to.
 
It's a twitch genre it will have good engagment because some streamers play it for a week and then it will take it's place on the GAAS graveyard.
 
They will need to implement heavy SBMM if they want to have it blow up IMO. Or have bots.

The problem is that for people who play these games that concept is like sunlight to a vampire. They will explode into flames if someone mentions it. As a result this genre is going to struggle to break into the casual demographic the way Fortnite did or COD.

The developers are stuck in catch 22, they have to appeal to the hardcore extraction shooter crowd while trying to make their game appeal to casual players to make tons of cash. It is a very hard needle to thread.
 
NeverYouMind said:
The issue is the relevance of a meme game is short lived, there is no real way to iterate on it, and there is no way to replicate it.
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So Escape from Duckov is a meme game...which means there's no way to iterate on a top down, indie Extraction title?

At what point, CCU wise, does Duckov need to reach before it metomorphisizes into a real game?
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
What evidence would you need to see before you think "OK, I got this genre wrong. It has more widespread appeal than I thought?"
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I need to see it have widespread appeal.

It's not like we haven't had extraction games - they've been around for a while. HUNT Showdown and Tarkov are both sort of popular, but not nearly as popular as the early games in other genres like MOBA (WC3 DOTA) and BR (PUBG). I also don't see what ARC is doing that is gooing to change that.

Men_in_Boxes said:
If player drop off is evidence of a "meme game" then you're damning a ton of titles you don't intend to.
Click to expand...
Except that's not what I said made a meme game, pay attention. There are multiple factors.
 
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wipeout364 said:
They will need to implement heavy SBMM if they want to have it blow up IMO. Or have bots.

The problem is that for people who play these games that concept is like sunlight to a vampire. They will explode into flames if someone mentions it. As a result this genre is going to struggle to break into the casual demographic the way Fortnite did or COD.

The developers are stuck in catch 22, they have to appeal to the hardcore extraction shooter crowd while trying to make their game appeal to casual players to make tons of cash. It is a very hard needle to thread.
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It just needs PvE with one team member successfully extracting giving full loot to team (imo). I am not the target audience though.
 
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NeverYouMind said:
It just needs PvE with one team member successfully extracting giving full loot to team (imo). I am not the target audience though.
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The Division experimented with this, and it was the sort extraction, or proto-extraction game.

OP likes to pretend this genre is brand new and just getting going but Division came out IIRC in 2016... it's nothing new.
 
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diffusionx said:
The Division experimented with this, and it was the sort extraction, or proto-extraction game.

OP likes to pretend this genre is brand new and just getting going but Division came out IIRC in 2016... it's nothing new.
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Yep, and it still has all the same problems that will never be fixed, at least not without pissing off the people who actually enjoy them as they are.

BennyBlanco said:


Duckov sold 500k already
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A cheap meme game that will be forgotten in a week.
 
diffusionx said:
I need to see it have widespread appeal.
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Can you be more specific than that?

Remember, my immediate hypothesis is considerable genre growth over the next few years. So if we get something that's bigger than Escape from Tarkov, the genre will have essentially 2x itself with a single title.

diffusionx said:
It's not like we haven't had extraction games - they've been around for a while. HUNT Showdown and Tarkov are both sort of popular, but not nearly as popular as the early games in other genres like MOBA (WC3 DOTA) and BR (PUBG). I also don't see what ARC is doing that is gooing to change that.
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I would say you're crazy if you don't see how ARC Raiders is significantly more approachable than Escape from Tarkov. I don't think you're actually saying that though.

Then I'd ask you to look at the genres pillars (progression, player choice, excitement, and social hooks) and tell me why Hunt Showdown performs favorably against ARC in those 4 key areas. I don't think you'll be able to do that because Hunt is a deeply flawed Extraction game.

diffusionx said:
Except that's not what I said made a meme game, pay attention. There are multiple factors.
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I wonder if people don't want to etch the line in stone because they prefer redrawing the markers.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
So Escape from Duckov is a meme game...which means there's no way to iterate on a top down, indie Extraction title?

At what point, CCU wise, does Duckov need to reach before it metomorphisizes into a real game?
Click to expand...
It is not a matter of CCUs. It is a matter of social media finding it funny enough for droves of people to record themselves participating in it to ride the wave of tiktok, twitch, and YouTube algorithms. After it's five minutes of being famous it doesn't matter what developers do with it because...
nobody cares bfd GIF
 
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We bumped Arc Raiders initially as a message to Marathon because we didn't want that game.

Looks like it stuck.

Good. I'm not mad that the online only bois have something to play.

I just don't want to be confused or associated with them. I don't use Fop. I'm a Dapper Dan man.
 
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Men_in_Boxes said:
I would say you're crazy if you don't see how ARC Raiders is significantly more approachable than Escape from Tarkov. I don't think you're actually saying that though.

Then I'd ask you to look at the genres pillars (progression, player choice, excitement, and social hooks) and tell me why Hunt Showdown performs favorably against ARC in those 4 key areas. I don't think you'll be able to do that because Hunt is a deeply flawed Extraction game.
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I watched some streams of ARC Raiders and it looked like a bunch of tryhards shooting each other in grim environments, just like other games in the genre. Does the game differ in the details? I am sure. But you know who cares about that? People who care about the genre. I am saying that ARC Raiders is not like Fortnite or LOL in that they offered something quantitatively and qualitatively different from the other games in the genre that drew (literally) millions of people to it.

Hence, I am saying its appeal is limited. But if I see the game pulling millions of people in, I will say I am wrong and misjudged the game.

Men_in_Boxes said:
I wonder if people don't want to etch the line in stone because they prefer redrawing the markers.
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I don't know how much more clearly I could have made it. Meme games are popular because they are memes. Streamers play them and then stupid young people buy them to get in on it. Then they get bored and move on. We've seen it happen over and over. Hence, it's a meme.

Either you recognize that or you don't.
 
I offer the genre very little thought as most of them are not for me. So I don't really care if it "blows up" or not. The only titles, that's related to the genre, that interest me in some ways are Witchfire and Zero Sievert. So might pick them up down the line if the mood strikes me.
 
Multiplayer games, gachas, sports games, GaaS, live service, and mobile are frequently frowned on or shunned altogether by some here because it doesn't align with their taste. I see it as less of getting it wrong so much as hoping they get it wrong to make those games fail pushing them out of the industry.
 
diffusionx said:
I watched some streams of ARC Raiders and it looked like a bunch of tryhards shooting each other in grim environments, just like other games in the genre. Does the game differ in the details? I am sure. But you know who cares about that? People who care about the genre. I am saying that ARC Raiders is not like Fortnite or LOL in that they offered something quantitatively and qualitatively different from the other games in the genre that drew (literally) millions of people to it.

Hence, I am saying its appeal is limited. But if I see the game pulling millions of people in, I will say I am wrong and misjudged the game.
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Just produce a number. How many copies does it need to sell and what CCU average does it need to settle on before you go "Alright, this genre has more appeal than I thought." Again, genre growth doesn't mean reaching Fortnite or League of Legends popularity.

Etch the line in stone so neither me or you can redraw the parameters.
diffusionx said:
I don't know how much more clearly I could have made it. Meme games are popular because they are memes. Streamers play them and then stupid young people buy them to get in on it. Then they get bored and move on. We've seen it happen over and over. Hence, it's a meme.
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You didn't make it clear at all because you haven't thought your hypothesis through.

Streamers play thousands of games every year. The vast majority of those successful games are popular for a few weeks and drop off like a rock.

Are all those games "meme games" or are they only meme games because you want to label them as such?
 
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Men_in_Boxes said:
Just produce a number. How many copies does it need to sell and what CCU average does it need to settle on before you go "Alright, this genre has more appeal than I thought." Again, genre growth doesn't mean reaching Fortnite or League of Legends popularity.

Etch the line in stone so neither me or you can redraw the parameters.
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One million CCU.

If it is the next big thing it should hit that number easily. PUBG did over 3x that.


Men_in_Boxes said:
You didn't make it clear at all because you haven't thought your hypothesis through.

Streamers play thousands of games every year. The vast majority of those games are popular for a few weeks and drop off like a rock.

Are all those games "meme games" or are they only meme games because you want to label them as such?
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The ones that blow up with the zoomers and alphas who watch them are the meme games.

Hence, they are memes.
 
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