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Rogue-like or Rogue-lite: which is it?!?!?

DeafTourette

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
I see these terms and I don't know which is the correct one... And what type of game is it? I'm mostly an RPG, fighting, action, platformer and horror guy so I don't actually know what genre rogue-whatever fits into.
 
If it looks and plays like Rogue, it's a roguelike.

If it doesn't look and play like Rogue, but has shit like permadeath or whatever, it's a roguelite.

This is Rogue:



Some roguelikes could be: Nethack, Tales of Maj'eyal, Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead, Caves of Qud, Soulash, Moonring.
 
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Theoretically:

Roguelite has permanent progression (usually different characters or new items for new runs)
Roguelike doesn't.

In practice, no one knows or cares
 
It's more a description of the game's structure than a genre per se. You die/fail = you start over, leading to a run based structure.

Lite vs Like = what Proxy said. Lite is called lite because even though the fail = start over structure remains, you aren't really starting over from scratch if you are unlocking things which affect future runs.
 
As far as I'm concerned roguelike/lite are as bad gacha games and makes the game unfun.

Any devs put shit on their game is automatic skip for me.
 
A good example of a Roguelike is Lethal Company.

If you don't meet quota and lose during a run you're back to $0 with an empty ship, implying the employee you were playing is gone and you're technically someone new.

What makes Lethal Company good is that it's open ended, has level randomization, is 'run-based', and runs feel nice and quick.

It's not progress-based and doesn't have linear progression, so you don't feel like you have to go through the exact same planets in the same exact usual sequence and see the same exact levels.

It is one of the best examples on how to design and pace a roguelike correctly so that the player is not feeling an insane amount of frustration like they would through linear progression.
 
DeafTourette said:
I see these terms and I don't know which is the correct one... And what type of game is it? I'm mostly an RPG, fighting, action, platformer and horror guy so I don't actually know what genre rogue-whatever fits into.
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This is a question best asked to Indie developers. Because this and Metroidvania's are all they seem to develop.
 
  • Roguelike (traditional/classic): Turn-based, grid-based movement, high complexity, procedural dungeons, full permadeath (no or very minimal meta-progression). Think strategic, old-school dungeon crawlers.

  • Roguelite (the more common modern style): Often real-time/action-oriented, mixes in other genres (action, shooting, deckbuilding, etc.), run-based with meta-progression (you keep some upgrades, unlocks, or story progress between deaths).

Roguelites are so much more popular that I think folks are calling any Rogue-influenced game Roguelike or Roguelite interchangably.

Roguelites include: Hades 1/2, Balatro, Slay the Spire 1/2, Vampire Survivors (and Vampire Survivor-likes), Dead Cells, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain 2, Monster Train 1/2...


Roguelikes in recent years have...Blue Prince?
 
"X genre element"-Lite = It has (some) staples or well known elements from said genre but isnt a game with those elements deployed in full force or even for the whole game.

"X genre element"-Like = It has the bells, whistles & challenge of said genre and deploy them as a main facet of the game and its content with its own dedication to their importance.
 
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If there is character progression between runs (unlocking skills, weapons, passives, etc) that make future runs easier ... it's a rogue-lite. One of my favorite genres.

If there is no progression and you just get kicked in the balls every run until you are more skillful at the game ... it's a rogue-like.
 
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As others have said. The "lite" involves some sort of permanent progression while the "like" is a complete start from zero every time you die.
The vast majority of games in the genere these days are in the "lite" category.
 
DavidGzz said:
So fun and shit. The latter was only fun in 2-3 hour NES games with cheat codes lol
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vodka-bull said:
Returnal is Rogue Lite. Pacman is Rogue Like.
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So these two posts point to old school games like beat em ups and arcade games, which are technically also roguelikes, with linear progression.

However, these are the older-school roguelikes which give a bad rep to the newer stuff that tends to be more open ended and less linear.

It's a shame because people tend to have disdain towards roguelikes even though quite a few of them have changed how they work entirely.
 
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March Climber said:
Roguelikes are essentially arcade games with a different name.

Look at a lot of the ones from the 2010s and you'll see what I mean.
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If you mean roguelites, yeah I could agree on that and those being the new arcade games, just with more meat to them thanks to the added sense of progression.

But a roguelike is something completely different. I was developing one and when interacting with communities that play those types of games (the actual roguelikes) they could get quite picky with what is a roguelike and what isn't a roguelike, even considering mine to not be one just for the inclusion of Action Points into the combat.
 
DeafTourette said:
I see these terms and I don't know which is the correct one... And what type of game is it? I'm mostly an RPG, fighting, action, platformer and horror guy so I don't actually know what genre rogue-whatever fits into.
Click to expand...
Here's how I remembered it...

Rogue - lite is like Bud Light & Miller Lite...it's the low calorie version of the original recipe.

Roguelites are everywhere. Hades 2, Slay the Spire 2 etc...

Rogue - like is "You're like a rogue - a dashing adventurer." Not many original articles left.

Roguelikes aren't popular. Caves of Cud and ???
 
and funny things is: shiren wanderer, pokemon dungeon, chocobo dungeon, torneko, and lot of roguelikes from japan are closer to rogue than these indie roguelikes (but they are roguelite, which is not close to real rogue)
when i got class, i'm always teach this to youth, each new year students, duh...
 
When in doubt, just say Rogue-like.

IMO, any game which has perma death, randomly generated levels & no meta progression makes for a R-Like.
Pacman is not a rogue game, but Pacman 256 is! It has meta progression, so it's a R-Lite.

One the topic, I've put in 34.5h in the Casualties Unknown demo. An action/survival rogue'ish game where the developer himself does not call it a rogue, but there's no meta progression, perma death and random levels. It's a rogue-like in my book. I have it pegged as one of the indie successes of 2026.

 
Little Mac said:
If there is character progression between runs (unlocking skills, weapons, passives, etc) that make future runs easier ... it's a rogue-lite. One of my favorite genres.

If there is no progression and you just get kicked in the balls every run until you are more skillful at the game ... it's a rogue-like.
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This is a decent description of the difference.

I used to love rogue-likes, but today I vastly prefer rogue-lites as I feel it is the superior genre, taking all of the best qualities of a rogue-like while reducing the punishing aspects of it, which just makes the games more fun.
 
Roguelike is basically anything that has been cloned from Rogue. It has top-down view, it has turn-based combat, it has grid-based movement, it can have permadeath, etc. If you want to go official you there is the Berlin interpretation of what "roguelike" means. Recent "real" roguelike ones as mentioned are Caves of Qud and Moonring DX. Roguelite is a bastardization of the term meaning they only pick a couple of things like permadeath and nothing else.
 
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TintoConCasera said:
If you mean roguelites, yeah I could agree on that and those being the new arcade games, just with more meat to them thanks to the added sense of progression.

But a roguelike is something completely different. I was developing one and when interacting with communities that play those types of games (the actual roguelikes) they could get quite picky with what is a roguelike and what isn't a roguelike, even considering mine to not be one just for the inclusion of Action Points into the combat.
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You are speaking more in terms of what they contain, but I am talking about progression.

I have always considered roguelikes to have a 'full reset' when it comes to progression, linear or non linear. Once you die, regardless of randomization or variety, you start all the way over.

Those are what I am talking about.

Roguelites on the other hand feel like you're making progress and will eventually reach an end, which makes sense with the "-lite".

It's why I technically consider the Arcade games of long ago their own version of roguelike, especially if they were on console because the console ports didn't let you use quarters to continue and you had no choice but to start over. And the progression was more linear so all you were doing is seeing the same progress over and over again, but experiences of what happens could technically change depending on if the game has branching paths or secret enemy types, etc.

Those experiences were more frustrating than fun, which why I was going on about the landscape of roguelikes changing in the past decade, because I don't think it's fair to the new, good roguelikes out there that they are constantly criticized for something they have evolved from, and a simple playthrough is what it would take to show that.

Edit: If people are going to start using the old school, technical term for rogue and roguelike, then the entire genre needs to be renamed. But that clearly isn't happening so I'm operating within it's modern definition.
 
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March Climber said:
It's why I technically consider the Arcade games of long ago their own version of roguelike
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And you are wrong, because a roguelike is much more than that. Both ReyBrujo ReyBrujo and me have already posted the Berlin Interpretation of the genre. Check it out because it means way more than permadeath and linear progression. I doubt any of the games you are thinking about are grid-based or turn-based, which is why I could accept "roguelites being the new arcade games", but neither of those would be roguelikes.
 
TintoConCasera said:
And you are wrong, because a roguelike is much more than that. Both ReyBrujo ReyBrujo and me have already posted the Berlin Interpretation of the genre. Check it out because it means way more than permadeath and linear progression. I doubt any of the games you are thinking about are grid-based or turn-based, which is why I could accept "roguelites being the new arcade games", but neither of those would be roguelikes.
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Read my edit
 
March Climber said:
Read my edit
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Well imo the modern definition is bullshit lol.

We have roguelite for anything that's "it has some roguelike elements but it's not a pure roguelike". Don't see the need to complicate things even further, but that's just my opinion.
 
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March Climber said:
Once you die, regardless of randomization or variety, you start all the way over.
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Think it this way: in a "roguelite" after you die you gain access to new "unlocked" inventory, new paths, new spells, new cards, etc, with which your character can start more powered up or get access to new items during the run. In a "roguelike" after you die your character gets nothing, they start exactly just like the previous run, however you, the player, gained knowledge about the stage.
 
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Can't stand starting a game from scratch.
Can't stand procedural level generation.

Who the hell plays these kinds of games?!

GIF by Leroy Patterson
 
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