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[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Ya and I'd agree that the crow is a warg, and who knows maybe former Lord Commander Mormont was a warg, and he's just passed onto his bird now.

So what is the line on how long its going to actually take GURM to finish up TWOW if he's not going to start until 2012? +/- 4 years?

If I was a gambling man I'd take the over.

I think he said he hoped he'd be done in 3 years, but then he said he'd never try and set a date on it again. Hopefully 2015. But yeah, probably longer. But hopefully not much longer or the TV series will catch up. Depending on how they do it, the series could be caught up to TWOW by 2016.

Season 1: 2011
Season 2: 2012
Season 3: 2013 part of ASOS
Season 4: 2014 The rest of ASOS and some of ADWD/AFFC
Season 5: 2015 The rest of ADWD/AFFC
Season 6: 2016 TWOW
Season 7: 2017 depending on how long and full of content TWOW is book 7 could start here, in which case George is fucked, or they're going to have to start taking longer breaks between seasons

edit: it's worse than this though since each season takes about a year to make. So they'd need to start writing and making TWOW in 2015, which in the best case scenario is when the book comes out, but then there's practically no time for George to write A Dream of Spring before HBO would need to start production.

 

[cubicle47b]

I'd guess 4 years, maybe late 2015. As for story details, my guess is Dany doesn't head for Westeros until the end of book 6 and comes as more of a savior than a conqueror in book 7 (meeting the others at the Trident). I think Aegon is going to die at some point in the next book (and may not be a Targ).

 

[kswiston]

I think he said he hoped he'd be done in 3 years, but then he said he'd never try and set a date on it again. Hopefully 2015. But yeah, probably longer. But hopefully not much longer or the TV series will catch up. Depending on how they do it, the series could be caught up to TWOW by 2016.

I am hoping it is around 3 years. GRRM seems to be really ecstatic that the show has been a hit, and that his books have sky-rocketed in popularity. Hopefully this plus a few months break will re-invigorate him, and the next novel won't be so difficult.

Steven King took 4-6 years between each of the first 5 dark tower books and the knocked out 3 in less than 2 years. GRRM is too much a perfectionist to do that, but it is feasible that the delays will shorten now that he has gotten through most of the stuff he was having trouble writing.

 

[cubicle47b]

I think he said he hoped he'd be done in 3 years, but then he said he'd never try and set a date on it again. Hopefully 2015. But yeah, probably longer. But hopefully not much longer or the TV series will catch up. Depending on how they do it, the series could be caught up to TWOW by 2016.

Season 1: 2011
Season 2: 2012
Season 3: 2013 part of ASOS
Season 4: 2014 The rest of ASOS and some of ADWD/AFFC
Season 5: 2015 The rest of ADWD/AFFC
Season 6: 2016 TWOW
Season 7: 2017 depending on how long and full of content TWOW is book 7 could start here, in which case George is fucked, or they're going to have to start taking longer breaks between seasons

Or George can tell the HBO producers how the story goes in a long summary and they can fill in the details.

 

[kswiston]

Or George can tell the HBO producers how the story goes in a long summary and they can fill in the details.

No way does HBO get to cover plot points that are not in print.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Or George can tell the HBO producers how the story goes in a long summary and they can fill in the details.

Can't say for sure and who knows what's in the contract between Martin and HBO, but I can't imagine that he'd let the story finish up on HBO before he has the book written. Although maybe they'd have the last season of GOT deviate completely from what George is writing

 

[Basileus777]

No way does HBO get to cover plot points that are not in print.

I imagine that depends on how successful the show is. If it's a big money maker, they aren't just going to stop for GRRM.

Can't say for sure and who knows what's in the contract between Martin and HBO, but I can't imagine that he'd let the story finish up on HBO before he has the book written. Although maybe they'd have the last season of GOT deviate completely from what George is writing

I doubt HBO is under any contractual obligation to let Martin finish the books before the show. That sounds like something that would never happen.

It's also worth noting that HBO gets access to GRRM's drafts and such early (or least they did with ADWD), they aren't dependent on the actual publication date.

 

[golem]

Can't say for sure and who knows what's in the contract between Martin and HBO, but I can't imagine that he'd let the story finish up on HBO before he has the book written. Although maybe they'd have the last season of GOT deviate completely from what George is writing

I believe Martin has already told the HBO people the gist of what will happen in the end

Do you know the ending?
I know the ending in broad strokes. I don’t know every little twist and turn that will get me there, and I don’t know the ending of every secondary character. But the ending and the main characters, yeah. And [Game of Thrones producers] David Benioff and Dan Weiss know some of that too, which the fans are very worried about in case I get hit by a truck.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I think he said he hoped he'd be done in 3 years, but then he said he'd never try and set a date on it again. Hopefully 2015. But yeah, probably longer. But hopefully not much longer or the TV series will catch up. Depending on how they do it, the series could be caught up to TWOW by 2016.

Season 1: 2011
Season 2: 2012
Season 3: 2013 part of ASOS
Season 4: 2014 The rest of ASOS and some of ADWD/AFFC
Season 5: 2015 The rest of ADWD/AFFC
Season 6: 2016 TWOW
Season 7: 2017 depending on how long and full of content TWOW is book 7 could start here, in which case George is fucked, or they're going to have to start taking longer breaks between seasons

I think I would go with this for Seasons 4+

Season 4: the rest of Storm plus the Greyjoy chapters from Feast (outside of the last Victarion one) scattered throughout the middle of the season
Season 5: most of Feast and the first third or so of Dance
Season 6: the end of Feast, and the last 2/3rds or so of Dance
Season 7: The Winds of Winter

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The problem is AFFC/ADWD, I just don't think there's enough material to make two whole seasons worth of shows. There's only so much you can show of Brienne wondering around, of Dany doing nothing, of Jon pissing people off and integrating Wildlings, of Cersie being an idiot and so on. It would get boring, especially after ASOS.

 

[kswiston]

The problem is AFFC/ADWD, I just don't think there's enough material to make two whole seasons worth of shows. There's only so much you can show of Brienne wondering around, of Dany doing nothing, of Jon pissing people off and integrating Wildlings, of Cersie being an idiot and so on. It would get boring, especially after ASOS.

There was as much going on in AFFC and ADWD as there was in GOT and ACOC. Plus they can trim a lot of fat going from the 32 hour AFFC and the 49 hour ADWD audiobooks to 9 hours worth of television.

 

[Jarmel]

I think he said he hoped he'd be done in 3 years, but then he said he'd never try and set a date on it again. Hopefully 2015. But yeah, probably longer. But hopefully not much longer or the TV series will catch up. Depending on how they do it, the series could be caught up to TWOW by 2016.

Season 1: 2011
Season 2: 2012
Season 3: 2013 part of ASOS
Season 4: 2014 The rest of ASOS and some of ADWD/AFFC
Season 5: 2015 The rest of ADWD/AFFC
Season 6: 2016 TWOW
Season 7: 2017 depending on how long and full of content TWOW is book 7 could start here, in which case George is fucked, or they're going to have to start taking longer breaks between seasons

edit: it's worse than this though since each season takes about a year to make. So they'd need to start writing and making TWOW in 2015, which in the best case scenario is when the book comes out, but then there's practically no time for George to write A Dream of Spring before HBO would need to start production.

Season 1: 2011
Season 2: 2012
Season 3: 2013 part of ASOS
Season 4: 2014 The rest of ASOS
Season 5: 2015 AFFC/ADWD
Season 6: 2016 ADWD
Season 7:2017 TWOW

Unless they take longer breaks later on which is a problem due to the kids aging but it might be necessary. Either way George is fucked. I can't see him making the deadline for ADOS. Let's assume The Winds of Winter launch in the early part of 2016(assuming he doesn't pull another ADWD in which case HBO is royally fucked) then the show would have to schedule a minimum of 3 to 4 years worth of breaks to do ADOS. And that's assuming he doesn't do 5 years with either books which is more than likely.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

They'll need to spend some time setting up new locations like Dorne, too. Feast and Dance also have a lot more occasions of characters disappearing from the book for long periods of time, and I don't think we'll have as much of that in the TV show. They'll need to include some scenes of Sansa getting adjusted to life in the Eyrie, Arya living as Cat of the Canals, etc, rather than having those characters disappear for 5-6 episodes and then suddenly show up again. I think the books have a lot of places where we'll need new scenes added in.

Similarly, I think we'll get some added scenes of Theon/Ramsay during the events of Storm (possibly showing the failed escape he and Kyra made), so that viewers don't completely forget about them. The later books have more stuff happening off screen that they could easily expand out when adapting them.

 

[Basileus777]

They'll need to spend some time setting up new locations like Dorne, too.

A lot of locations will be cut if for no other reason than for cost. I don't know if Dorne would even be a location in the show. The expanded scope of the series isn't going to be the same on TV.

Too much happens in Dorne for them to cut it.

Like what? The Myrcella and Darkstar subplots aren't essential. These sorts of cuts are going to have to happen if the show survives that long. Otherwise it'd be impossible to do on a TV budget.

 

[Jarmel]

A lot of locations will be cut if for no other reason than for cost. I don't know if Dorne would even be a location in the show.

Too much happens in Dorne for them to cut it.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

A lot of locations will be cut if for no other reason than for cost. I don't know if Dorne would even be a location in the show. The expanded scope of the series isn't going to be the same on TV.

There's too much going on there for them to cut out Dorne. I could easily see them cutting out Brienne's trip to Cracklaw Point (she might just meet up with Hyle Hunt and start traveling with him right away) and Jaime going to Raventree in Dance. They could also cut out Davos first chapter in Dance and just have him go straight to White Harbor.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah, I could see Dorne getting cut somewhat, but not all the way it's going to be real important later on. There's a problem where there's also going to be too many characters. A lot will have to be cut and simplified to make it manageable.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I'm optimitic regarding how long it will take Martin to finish Winds of Winter. I say 2.5 years, releasing 3 years from now during the summer of 2014. Also, if I were Martin I'd buy a log cabin somewhere cold and picturesque such as Vermont, Maine, Nova Scotia, BC, etc. to live in while I was writing the book. I'd do it this fall and get it ready to move in as soon as it gets cold.

 

[Jarmel]

Like what? The Myrcella and Darkstar subplots aren't essential. These sort of cuts are going to have to happen if the show survives that long. Otherwise it'd be impossible to do on a TV budget.

There's alot more insignificant things in the books than the stuff in Dorne. They're also a huge chunk of the books and are needed to explain who the hell Quentyn is. They're a big portion of the political aspect in Westeros.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

There's always hope, he did write ASOS in 2 years.

 

[Basileus777]

Yeah, I could see Dorne getting cut somewhat, but not all the way it's going to be real important later on. There's a problem where there's also going to be too many characters. A lot will have to be cut and simplified to make it manageable.

AFFC/ADWD won't be split on the show. Think about how many different locations and characters are in those two books. Beyond simplifying it to make it manageable for a TV audience, the costs involved would make significant location and character cuts a necessity.

 

[Jarmel]

AFFC/ADWD won't be split on the show. Think about how many different locations and characters are in those two books. Beyond simplifying it to make it manageable for a TV audience, the costs involved would make significant location and character cuts a necessity.

They honestly might try to make both books into three seasons and really expand the books. Expand each location to cover a chunk of each season. The pacing is going to be brutally slow but better than cutting to different places every 15 minutes.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

There's always hope, he did write ASOS in 2 years.

Of course, the series wasn't nearly as popular then, so there weren't as many signings or conventions, not to mention writing an episode a year for the show (and being involved in the casting process and other things).

It could happen if he sits down when he returns after 9 months of not really writing much and finds everything flying out, but late 2014-early 2015 is more when I would look towards.

 

[Jarmel]

Of course, the series wasn't nearly as popular then, so there weren't as many signings or conventions, not to mention writing an episode a year for the show (and being involved in the casting process and other things).

It could happen if he sits down when he returns after 9 months of not really writing much and finds everything flying out, but late 2014-early 2015 is more when I would look towards.

Dream scenario but not likely in the slightest. This is a man that took 11 years to finally get ADWD out.

 

[Basileus777]

They honestly might try to make both books into three seasons and really expand the books. Expand each location to cover a chunk of each season. The pacing is going to be brutally slow but better than cutting to different places every 15 minutes.

They still have to make a TV show people want to watch, I don't think splitting AFFC/ADWD into three seasons would make for compelling television. Either way, if the show survives that long, they will have some tough decisions to make. For all the talk about how AGOT was written to be unfilmable, it's much much worse in ADWD.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Of course, the series wasn't nearly as popular then, so there weren't as many signings or conventions, not to mention writing an episode a year for the show (and being involved in the casting process and other things).

It could happen if he sits down when he returns after 9 months of not really writing much and finds everything flying out, but late 2014-early 2015 is more when I would look towards.

That's why it would be wise for him to get away from all that for a time when he starts work on book 6. A strong start and a strong finish are crucial to the writing process.

 

[Dresden]

I have my swords, and we are coming for you, Bastard.

-FUCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH

>a minute later

-NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Dream scenario but not likely in the slightest. This is a man that took 11 years to finally get ADWD out.

Yeah, sure, but I think the truth is somewhere in between. Feast and Dance had their host of problems, a lot of which stemmed from dropping the five year gap (which was the right decision, but it lead to him to having scrapped a year plus of work and having to now write a completely different book).

I don't think we'll see something like that again, but I doubt we'll see him just fly right through the book, either.

 

[Basileus777]

The most frightening thing is reading about how GRRM threw away a book worth of material writing ADWD. It makes you afraid that he's going to pull a Rothfuss and continually write and rewrite the same material over and over again. If that's how he writes now, it doesn't make me optimistic...

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

They still have to make a TV show people want to watch, I don't think splitting AFFC/ADWD into three seasons would make for compelling television. Either way, if the show survives that long, they will have some tough decisions to make. For all the talk about how AGOT was written to be unfilmable, it's much much worse in ADWD.

Absolutely. You have 16 different viewpoint characters (not to mention tons of other central characters), with action taking place simultaneously at a massive amount of locations), and you frequently have central characters disappearing for large stretches of the story.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The most frightening thing is reading about how GRRM threw away a book worth of material writing ADWD. It makes you afraid that he's going to pull a Rothfuss and continually write and rewrite the same material over and over again. If that's how he writes now, it doesn't make me optimistic...

I don't understand why this is frightening. When I am writing something that is going to be published I almost always discard a lot of material. I don't count the pages, but I'd be willing to bet it's around the same amount that I leave in.

 

[Advance_Alarm]

AGOT the series is going to last 3 seasons max no matter how good it is. I was so fucking frustrated when I read ADWD because there is huge buildup on every front and nothing gets resolved, especially after waiting for 5 years. It was worth reading seeing Barristan being a badass and the cunt Cersei finally get a dose of humility. I was waiting for an epic battle in Mereen or at least a taste of seeing Grey Worm and Hero leading the Unsullied (I am also wondering if giving the officers a little more latitude can turn them away from being slavishly obedient a la clone troops in SW) or even another sea battle like in AFFC but nothing happened.

 

[ZephyrFate]

AGOT the series is going to last 3 seasons max no matter how good it is. I was so fucking frustrated when I read ADWD because there is huge buildup on every front and nothing gets resolved, especially after waiting for 5 years. It was worth reading seeing Barristan being a badass and the cunt Cersei finally get a dose of humility. I was waiting for an epic battle in Mereen or at least a taste of seeing Grey Worm and Hero leading the Unsullied (I am also wondering if giving the officers a little more latitude can turn them away from being slavishly obedient a la clone troops in SW) or even another sea battle like in AFFC but nothing happened.

At the promise of the fact that TWOW will be the most epic book ever.

 

[tino]

I hope when HBO get to the fourth season, they do the right thing and compress both book 4 and book 5 into one single slightly longer season.

The screen writer need to cut the fuck out of Sam's chapters, Brienne's chapter, and most of the Dany chapters.

Basically you give Kings Landing, the Wall, Iron Island and Lady Stoneheart each chapter. That's all you need for AFOC. Each episode should have decent amount Littlefinger and Sansa.

Main while, Tyrion and Arya can start their oversea adventures simultaneously. Jon's chapters on the wall can shrink to 2 episodes, Dany's pre-wedding content shrink to one episode and then the rest of the show will focus on Theon, Devos and Tyrion.

They need to cut the fuck out of Penny. The Dorne prince part should be skipped entirely. Give him 15 minutes before Dany's wedding that's all he need before his eventual BBQ exit.

 

[Pkaz01]

So what does everyone think will become of Gendry? Will he ever find out about his father? Why all the build up to his character if he was just going to stay with the Brotherhood? I'm guessing we will see him again in Brienne's POV if she survives and if she doesn't maybe he will be a possible POV for that area?

 

[Dresden]

So what does everyone think will become of Gendry? Will he ever find out about his father? Why all the build up to his character if he was just going to stay with the Brotherhood? I'm guessing we will see him again in Brienne's POV if she survives and if she doesn't maybe he will be a possible POV for that area?

He'll probably be there to see Jaime get owned.

 

[duckroll]

There will be a Grendy spinoff novella where he grows up and goes hunt all the boars around King's Landing to avenge his father's memory. It'll be as exciting as the Dany chapters.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Dany's last chapter is horrible imo..

Martin really hamstrung things toward the end, with some unsatisfying cliff hangers. I can't help but think there would have been plenty of time to show the Stannis/Bolton battle and Dany conquering the Khalasar/marching towards the city in ADWD. Some Dany chapters could have been cut, and many of the chapters surrounding Reek/Asha felt like filler - not suggesting they were bad, but that they were dragging things on to delay the battle into the next book.

I really like ADWD but that pissed me off. Also, no Greatjon. No Blackfish. No news of Robb's heir. :*(

 

[Basileus777]

No news of Robb's heir. :*(

I wonder what's up with this. Maege Mormont and Glover have been missing for a long time now. Are they just chilling out at Greywater Watch or what?

 

[Pkaz01]

The best part about these books is that i care more about what happened to minor characters like sandor, the greatjon, the blackfish, and all them than I do about what happened to Dany. If he was to write in a sentence or two that all she did was fuck around (literally) in Meeren and then ride away on her dragon to the dorthraki. I would just say ok cool and would totally not be surprised the way her chapters go.

Her chapters were decent in a game of thrones but after that I just got so into the Westeros stuff that her chapters just became a pain. Its kind of disappointing for me that I don't like one of the if not the most important character in the book and wouldn't care if her chapters were just summarized.

 

[Kettch]

I have my swords, and we are coming for you, Bastard.

-FUCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH

>a minute later

-NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

That last chapter is still pretty baffling to me. Jon has had so many chances to break his vows in the past, and he finally decides to do it here? Why? Because Mance Rayder means more to him than his entire family? The letter even says "Arya" has escaped, so it's not even to rescue her, he even decided against rescuing her just in the previous chapters.

I'm also surprised that people are wondering why the Watch decided to turn on him at that point with so many wildlings around. He just made two public statements in front of everyone: 1) He's breaking his vows to the Night's Watch in order to save the king beyond the wall and 2) He's giving the command of the rescue of thousands of wildlings to Tormund Giantsbane.

Everything he had done prior to this was reasonable and his men put up with it. Despite not agreeing, they could see the wisdom and it was within his power as Lord Commander. Either of those two things above are completely different. He's a traitor to the Night's Watch and he's putting Night's Watch men under the command of a wildling for the first time instead of the other way around.

 

[Nymerio]

Can this even be considered to be breaking his vows? Ramsay says he's coming for him because he has his bride, which he does not actually have. I don't think sitting around and waiting for Ramsay would be a smart decision. Ramsay has Mance and thinks Jon has sent him to get "Arya", by now everyone probably thinks of Jon as an oathbreaker anyway. I think he's fucked either way and going for Ramsay is the only decision he could make in these circumstances

 

[Famassu]

That last chapter is still pretty baffling to me. Jon has had so many chances to break his vows in the past, and he finally decides to do it here? Why? Because Mance Rayder means more to him than his entire family? The letter even says "Arya" has escaped, so it's not even to rescue her, he even decided against rescuing her just in the previous chapters.

You're misunderstanding the reasoning behind it. He's not doing it for Mance, duh, it was for the safety of himself and everyone at the Wall (while also maybe thinking he might find Arya before Ramsay and save her). He's doing it because he (thinks he) knows that if he just stays at the Wall, Ramsay will come and possibly cause some unwanted desctruction at a time when Ramsay fucking shit up is REALLY not wanted (not only could he destroy the Night's Watch, it could also cause additional problems with the wildlings) and they really can't protect themselves at all on the Wall. If he lets Ramsay have his time to get his troops together, he knows the Night's Watch will have no way of beating them. If he leaves the Wall and gets killed, then that will remove him from the equation and the Night's Watch should be in no danger from Ramsay anymore. He's kinda thinking of sacrificing himself for the others (I'm sure he knows attacking Winterfell head-on is an almost guaranteed suicide mission, with how much troops they've got gathered there and how hard it is to breach). That's why he doesn't ORDER anyone to come with him, but says that anyone who will, can. Also, as has been said, he might technically not be considered deserting the Night's Watch, if it's to protect the Night's Watch.

Besides, he's kinda deserted the Night's Watch once already. Sure, he didn't get that far before he was caught by his friends, but what he did... it DID theoretically count as deserting and he should've already been punished for it.

I'm also surprised that people are wondering why the Watch decided to turn on him at that point with so many wildlings around. He just made two public statements in front of everyone: 1) He's breaking his vows to the Night's Watch in order to save the king beyond the wall and 2) He's giving the command of the rescue of thousands of wildlings to Tormund Giantsbane.

1) He's not doing it to save the king beyoned the wall

2) why shouldn't he? Tormund knows the lands beyond the wall much better than anyone from Night's Watch. Tormund is a proven warrior, the lot at Night's Watch are basically just prejudiced racists who don't like it for no good reason.

Everything he had done prior to this was reasonable and his men put up with it. Despite not agreeing, they could see the wisdom and it was within his power as Lord Commander. Either of those two things above are completely different. He's a traitor to the Night's Watch and he's putting Night's Watch men under the command of a wildling for the first time instead of the other way around.

I'm not sure putting the Night's Watch at huge dept and letting thousands & thousands of wildlings, who could easily be provoked to cause trouble (or just do that even if unprovoked) is that reasonable. Humane? Yes. Necessary? More or less, but they are rash decisions from which the Night's Watch and the North could suffer a lot from in the long run.

 

[Frost_Ace]

You seem to write in English prett well (you correctly used "their" instead of "there" and "they're" which a lot of native speakers fuck up), I don't think it would be much of a problem for you.

Not particulary, I'd suggest reading with a dictionary, but there isn't too much in the way of metaphor or pun.

Ok Thanks, I'll definitely pick'em in English then

 

[yacobod]

Dany's last chapter is horrible imo..

come on it's not all bad, it features gems like "the more she drank, the more she shat."

now at least we know dany's human and goes number 2.

 

[Tacitus_]

Next book, Dany will die of dysentery in her first chapter.

 

[zeroshiki]

Dany's last chapter was not in the least exciting because:

1.) She wasn't going to die;
2.) She was most definitely getting that dragon.

What was the thrill in that? There was zero sense of doubt and/or excitement.

 

[yacobod]

My favorite chapters in the book were:

Davos 4 and the Reek chapter with Roose Bolton. Where Roose explains the circumstances of Ramsay's birth. Raped his mother under a tree where he hanged her dead husband because they got married w/out his permission. Hardcore.

And I really liked the last Victarion chapter, although it was superfluous and didn't really need to be in the book. Just riding the waves and pillaging on his way to Slaver's Bay. He captures the slavers galley. Says fuck it and throws the perfumed boy whores overboard to the drowned gods. Makes salt wives out of the female whores, and sacrifices the 7 best female whores to the drowned god and the lord of light. BOSS. Amon Amarth soundtrack during this chapter.

 

[Kettch]

Can this even be considered to be breaking his vows? Ramsay says he's coming for him because he has his bride, which he does not actually have. I don't think sitting around and waiting for Ramsay would be a smart decision. Ramsay has Mance and thinks Jon has sent him to get "Arya", by now everyone probably thinks of Jon as an oathbreaker anyway. I think he's fucked either way and going for Ramsay is the only decision he could make in these circumstances

Jon himself thinks that it's breaking his vows, which is why I can't understand why this is apparently more important than his father being executed, than his brother being murdered, than his sisters being held captive, than staying true to the woman he loves, than being able to unite the North by taking Winterfell as Stannis offered or than his sister being wed to a lunatic.

1) He's not doing it to save the king beyoned the wall

2) why shouldn't he? Tormund knows the lands beyond the wall much better than anyone from Night's Watch. Tormund is a proven warrior, the lot at Night's Watch are basically just prejudiced racists who don't like it for no good reason.

1) That's what anyone in the Watch would think after hearing him read that letter. Regardless, he basically tells them that he's breaking his vows and abandoning the Watch. "The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms. It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton...I mean to make him answer for those words, but I will not ask my brothers to foreswear their vows."

2) It doesn't matter if it's the best decision when he knows how prejudiced his brothers are. There was absolutely no way they were going to stand being commanded by a man who made a name for himself by killing their fellows.

You're misunderstanding the reasoning behind it. He's not doing it for Mance, duh, it was for the safety of himself and everyone at the Wall (while also maybe thinking he might find Arya before Ramsay and save her). He's doing it because he (thinks he) knows that if he just stays at the Wall, Ramsay will come and possibly cause some unwanted desctruction at a time when Ramsay fucking shit up is REALLY not wanted (not only could he destroy the Night's Watch, it could also cause additional problems with the wildlings) and they really can't protect themselves at all on the Wall. If he lets Ramsay have his time to get his troops together, he knows the Night's Watch will have no way of beating them. If he leaves the Wall and gets killed, then that will remove him from the equation and the Night's Watch should be in no danger from Ramsay anymore. He's kinda thinking of sacrificing himself for the others (I'm sure he knows attacking Winterfell head-on is an almost guaranteed suicide mission, with how much troops they've got gathered there and how hard it is to breach). That's why he doesn't ORDER anyone to come with him, but says that anyone who will, can. Also, as has been said, he might technically not be considered deserting the Night's Watch, if it's to protect the Night's Watch.

If he wants a suicide mission, there are better ones to go on. To Hardhome for instance, would be easy to find a way to get himself killed there and he would be dying for the Watch instead of as a traitor.

Since becoming Lord Commander Jon has shown such remarkable sense and restraint when it comes to baiting, yet this one letter completely sets him off. I really don't get it.

 

[Famassu]

Dany's last chapter was not in the least exciting because:

1.) She wasn't going to die;
2.) She was most definitely getting that dragon.

What was the thrill in that? There was zero sense of doubt and/or excitement.

So only death and dragons are exciting? Yeeeeaah...

It was a good chapter with her finally realizing that even as a fair & just Queen, she has to be a DRAGON and not just some sizzy trying to make everyone happy while suffering herself/sacrificing a lot of her beliefs. I'm imagining if she does stay at Meereen even for a bit, she'll not give in for the demands for anyone else. Heads will roll. Plus the implication that she'll once again go for being the Khaleesi of a 20,000 head strong dothraki army, that is promising.