Support NeoGAF

[Blader]

I really hope not, because if you really think about it, his tenure as Batman is very brief.

Almost a decade is very brief?

 

[shira]

With Nolan emphasizing how this movie is the end of the story of Batman, I wonder if that means Bruce will have sorted through the internal conflicts that led him to become Batman in the first place and retire at the end of the movie.

It's really interesting to me because, as a long standing comic series and a franchise, we're all so accustomed to Batman being a character who keeps going until he's too old or dies. And even then that story would never be touched upon.

But to think of Batman as a finite character that lasts for a few years as Bruce struggles to regain some sense of justice and normalcy gives a lot more depth to the character than I normally associate with him. It's easy to make his grief last forever to support Batman's never ending fight against injustice. But that's clearly not what drives his unhealthy obsession.

That's not to say that he'll return to a normal life right after he hangs his cowl, but he might find a way to deal with his obsessions in a better way. To limit Batman as a time in Wayne's life makes this series very interesting.

It should be noted that I'm not pondering over what Nolan will do, but simply musing over what could be done given the brief statements we've read.

I think he's gotta die or else be paralyzeded, that seems the way the Batman character ends. I don't see Bruce Wayne in the retirement home or handing over the mantle.

Almost a decade is very brief?

I think he's not crimefighting for the most part of the 8 year time jump

 

[Blader]

I think he's not crimefighting for the most part of the 8 year time jump

Why he would not be? If he's not keeping an active presence in Gotham, that would kind of defeat the point of his new pariah status at the end of TDK.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I think he's not crimefighting for the most part of the 8 year time jump

That's another interesting point. At the end of TDK, we know he's completely sold on the idea of being Gotham's saviour and shit. In his monologue, Gordon says something about hunting him because he can take it. And then we also know that he quits sometime given the teaser trailer where he's being asked to return. So what happened in between? What broke his resolve?

 

[- J - D -]

Almost a decade is very brief?

Well, it's implied that Bruce lost his way a bit after the events of TDK, so I'm assuming he hasn't been fighting crime in the span between that film and TDKR.

In reality, he's only been Batman for...1-2 years at max.

Also, it would align with what Gordon says in the TDKR teaser. Something like "Then you were gone." and "The Batman must come back."

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

If Nolan doesn't bless us with his own version of a Rocky training montage, I don't even know if I can go see this film.

 

[Blader]

That's another interesting point. At the end of TDK, we know he's completely sold on the idea of being Gotham's saviour and shit. In his monologue, Gordon says something about hunting him because he can take it. And then we also know that he quits sometime given the teaser trailer where he's being asked to return. So what happened in between? What broke his resolve?

I think that's different, though. It seems like a foregone conclusion that Bane clobbers Batman in the first act, which sends Bruce globetrotting to heal or train or whatever, and that's the absence that Gordon talks about in the hospital: that Batman disappeared and just let Bane run shit in Gotham.

I can't imagine Batman falls off the grid in the 8 years between movies; that's not exactly being hunted "because he can take it." It's not exactly honoring Dent's legacy either if he's just letting the city go to hell because the police are always on his ass.

 

[Veidt]

i have a feeling

Spoiler

alfred is going to die

any bets on how?

I say too many russian prostitutes not applying their own bloody sun tan lotions.

 

[Kinyou]

If Nolan doesn't bless us with his own version of a Rocky training montage, I don't even know if I can go see this film.

*cough* Batman Begins training montage *cough*

 

[effzee]

If this is really as "final" as it sounds there really aren't too many choices for how it must end.

Batman Dead, in jail, or Bruce deciding Batman is done and living happily ever after. Don't see the third happening. My random shot in the dark, dead, but nobody (other then maybe Gordon) ever finding out who he really was.

Ok I think I mentioned this before but I seriously doubt the movie ends with Bruce and or Batman dying. Like physically dying. Nolan even says that at the end of TDK Batman/Bruce are left in a bad shape, alone, and hated by the public. This movie is about his redemption. The Dark Knight Rises.

My guess is

Spoiler

Bruce regains his humanity by letting Batman go, realizing his guilt for his parents death is misplaced, and that he has done as much as he can for the city by also redeeming the name/myth of the Batman

What I would love instead is

Spoiler

Bruce accepting that he can not have a normal life anymore and he has nothing to live for as Bruce so he gives up trying. Goes on to be a fake person as Bruce and is truly himself as Batman. Movie ends with him either verbally or symbolically killing Bruce and accepting that he Batman forever

 

[Stinkles]

GAF, where self-proclaimed critics know shit.

Or where people who are otherwise enjoying a movie can acknowledge it's at least 15 minutes too long.

 

[shira]

Why he would not be? If he's not keeping an active presence in Gotham, that would kind of defeat the point of his new pariah status at the end of TDK.

Jim Gordon: [lying in a hospital bed] We were in this together, and then you were gone. And now there's evil rising. The Batman has to come back.

I got that vibe from the teaser with Gordon. I just assumed that the city rallies behind the death of Dent he goes into hiding, leaving the Gotham to Gordon.

Bane has crossed the line and he's gotta come back.

 

[Gila]

*cough* Batman Begins training montage *cough*

I just wanna know what he was drinking here

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I think that's different, though. It seems like a foregone conclusion that Bane clobbers Batman in the first act, which sends Bruce globetrotting to heal or train or whatever, and that's the absence that Gordon talks about in the hospital: that Batman disappeared and just let Bane run shit in Gotham.

I can't imagine Batman falls off the grid in the 8 years between movies; that's not exactly being hunted "because he can take it." It's not exactly honoring Dent's legacy either if he's just letting the city go to hell because the police are always on his ass.

I'm inclined to believe that Bruce comes out of retirement to confront Bane, reminiscent to The Dark Knight Returns. While I agree that it would be hypocritical for him to half-ass his commitment to Dent, I think he gives up somewhere within those 8 years. I say that because I can't think of any other purpose to have that 8 year jump other than to emphasize that he's not been Batman for a while. Which leads me to believe that something monumental takes place between those 8 years for him to give up.

Of course I'm assuming quite a bit, but it's fun and serves the purpose of this thread.

 

[shira]

I think that's different, though. It seems like a foregone conclusion that Bane clobbers Batman in the first act, which sends Bruce globetrotting to heal or train or whatever, and that's the absence that Gordon talks about in the hospital: that Batman disappeared and just let Bane run shit in Gotham.

Makes more sense with how Bane gets those vehicles though.

 

[effzee]

I think that's different, though. It seems like a foregone conclusion that Bane clobbers Batman in the first act, which sends Bruce globetrotting to heal or train or whatever, and that's the absence that Gordon talks about in the hospital: that Batman disappeared and just let Bane run shit in Gotham.

I can't imagine Batman falls off the grid in the 8 years between movies; that's not exactly being hunted "because he can take it." It's not exactly honoring Dent's legacy either if he's just letting the city go to hell because the police are always on his ass.

The 8 years thing is confusing right now. In the teaser Bruce says "What if he doesn't exist anymore?" almost implying that he has been gone as Batman for a certain time period. I hope its not that after the end of TDK he goes into hiding to the point there is no Batman for that 8 year time period.

I think I would prefer that he still shows up as Batman for those 8 years in between but is very careful avoiding the cops since they are officially looking for him now.

I guess the title works if they show he has been dormant for 8 years and RISES once this EVIL arrives.

 

[Inferno313]

Well, not really. Bale already looks to be about the right age as a late 30's/early 40's Bruce Wayne.

In Batman Begins, Bruce was either still at Princeton or had just finished (not sure which), so he'd have to be in his early-mid twenties.

He does his travelling nomad/Ninja training stuff for 7 years, then returns to Gotham.

TDK takes place within the year after BB, and TDKR is 8 years after the events of TDK. So Bruce would be about 40, give or take.

The princeton thing is a flashback. You can see in the background of the scene in which Rachel comes to his door on his birthday that there is a giant '30' hanging on the wall. He's 30 in Batman Begins.

EDIT: I totally just failed at reading comprehension, sorry.

 

[Blader]

Makes more sense with how Bane gets those vehicles though.

Wouldn't it make more sense that Bane took those after Bruce leaves Gotham? Because if Bruce is just being Bruce during the 8 years, then he should especially be able to keep an eye on his tech and who's getting in and out of his company. If he's out of the country again, then it stands that's what would allow Bane to co-opt the Tumblers and etc.

The 8 years thing is confusing right now. In the teaser Bruce says "What if he doesn't exist anymore?" almost implying that he has been gone as Batman for a certain time period. I hope its not that after the end of TDK he goes into hiding to the point there is no Batman for that 8 year time period.

I think I would prefer that he still shows up as Batman for those 8 years in between but is very careful avoiding the cops since they are officially looking for him now.

That's what I'm thinking: that he's still active as Batman during those 8 years, gets his ass handed to him by Bane in the first half of the movie, leaves to go train or whatever, then returns to Gotham where Bane is in charge and Gordon is in the hospital lamenting over Batman's absence.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

*cough* Batman Begins training montage *cough*

That training montage was him just learning how to be Batman.

I'm talking some Rocky 4 THIS MOTHER FUCKER KILLED APOLLO HE'S GOING DOWN Super Ultimo Batman remix shit.

 

[Escape Goat]

I just wanna know what he was drinking here

probably a lot of vegetables thrown into a juicer.

 

[RSTEIN]

Sorry if this is obvious. If Bane steals Wayne Corp's tanks while Bruce is away/recovering do we assume that Bane knows Wayne is Batman fairly early on in the movie?

 

[Messypandas]

What needs to happen at the end of this film, after defeating Bane in a bloody trying brawl Batman lies hurting in a puddle. The camera pulls out and we see Bruce standing at the pier having IMAGINED the next 16 years of life. The ultimate flash forward!. The bum comes up to him and says 'what are you staring at?' and Bruce replies 'give me that coat back'. Dark Knight Rises baby.

 

[Veidt]

That training montage was him just learning how to be Batman.

I'm talking some Rocky 4 THIS MOTHER FUCKER KILLED APOLLO HE'S GOING DOWN Super Ultimo Batman remix shit.

goddamit. i just ruined my keyboard.

 

[Gila]

probably a lot of vegetables thrown into a juicer.

Starks drinking something similar here too

I dunno, I just like knowing irrelevant things in scenes lol

 

[shira]

Wouldn't it make more sense that Bane took those after Bruce leaves Gotham? Because if Bruce is just being Bruce during the 8 years, then he should especially be able to keep an eye on his tech and who's getting in and out of his company. If he's out of the country again, then it stands that's what would allow Bane to co-opt the Tumblers and etc.

I guess it depends how Bane gets them. In my mind Bane just shows up with them after 8 years and Batman is like well I've had this waiting for you the whole time.

That's what I'm thinking: that he's still active as Batman during those 8 years, gets his ass handed to him by Bane in the first half of the movie, leaves to go train or whatever, then returns to Gotham where Bane is in charge and Gordon is in the hospital lamenting over Batman's absence.

That's confusing so he's sort of crimefighting mid level players/mobsters, that haven't been cast. GPD could handle those under Gordon. I think that the city is "saved" and they have relative peace and quiet for 8 years.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Sorry if this is obvious. If Bane steals Wayne Corp's tanks while Bruce is away/recovering do we assume that Bane knows Wayne is Batman fairly early on in the movie?

The one Bruce took in BB was a prototype, so I don't think they were any more of them. Given the amount of tanks seen on set, it looks like Wayne Corp eventually began producing them, perhaps they signed a deal with the military. So while I don't doubt that Bane will know who Batman is, it is very likely that he stole those tanks from elsewhere.

 

[Blader]

That's confusing so he's sort of crimefighting mid level players/mobsters, that haven't been cast. GPD could handle those under Gordon. I think that the city is "saved" and they have relative peace and quiet for 8 years.

But we wouldn't see that anyway since the movie is picking up 8 years later, not covering the 8 years in between TDK and Rises.

At the very least, we know that Gordon and his team (including Blake) hunting Batman is part of the movie. If Batman wasn't still active in Gotham, then there wouldn't be any hunt...at least not any hunt that would be exciting to watch on screen :lol

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I want the movie to end sort of the same way, MessyPandas. Except I want Batman to go full Sin City/ Ryan Gosling Driver on Bane's face, pounding his face into the concrete as helicopters circle overhead. Batman let's out a manroar, screaming "YOU KILLED THEM! YOU KILLED GORDON! LUCIIUS! ALFRED! YOU KILLED THEM ALL!!!!!". Batman is screaming so loud and horse the vibrations deafen Bane. Batman delivers his final maddening blows, blood and sweat and furious drool just pouring out of the cowl. Bane is left a bloody pulp.


Batman looks out at the burning skyline of Gotham as the choppers close in. The government is moving in on the city now, cleaning up the mess. Tanks are rolling through the streets, snipers have their sights on Batman.


And then he looks down, right down at the pile of face he just mashed like potatoes and sees...

the face of Bruce Wayne.

Batman gasps.

Cut to black.


T H E D A R K K N I G H T R I S E S

 

[RSTEIN]

The one Bruce took in BB was a prototype, so I don't think they were any more of them. Given the amount of tanks seen on set, it looks like Wayne Corp eventually began producing them, perhaps they signed a deal with the military. So while I don't doubt that Bane will know who Batman is, it is very likely that he stole those tanks from elsewhere.

Yes, the original Tumbler was a prototype. So if Bane (well, the whole world, really) starts seeing all these Tumblers rolling off the assembly line at Wayne Corp then aren't people going to be like "oh, that's where Batman got his Batmobile. Oh, wait a minute. Did Wayne Corp know a Tumbler was stolen? Why didn't it report this to the police? Wait... there's more! Bruce Wayne is a rich billionaire who has easy access to all these gadgets!. Wait a minute... OMG!! His jaw line looks just like Batman's!!!"

 

[shira]

I want the movie to end sort of the same way, MessyPandas. Except I want Batman to go full Sin City/ Ryan Gosling Driver on Bane's face, pounding his face into the concrete as helicopters circle overhead. Batman let's out a manroar, screaming "YOU KILLED THEM! YOU KILLED GORDON! LUCIIUS! ALFRED! YOU KILLED THEM ALL!!!!!". Batman is screaming so loud and horse the vibrations deafen Bane and Batman delivers his final maddening blows, blood and sweat and furious drool just pouring out of the cowl. Bane is just left as a bloody pulp.


Batman looks out at the burning skyline of Gotham as the choppers circle in. The government is moving in on the city now, cleaning up the mess. Tanks are rolling through the streets, snipers have their sights on Batman.


And then he looks down, right down at the pile of face he just mashed like potatoes and sees...

the face of Bruce Wayne.

Are you referencing that Thomas Wayne is his father?
Empire Strikes Back?
or
Bane has been incepted to be Batman?

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Are you referencing that Thomas Wayne is his father?
Empire Strikes Back?
or
Bane has been incepted to be Batman?

I'm saying, it's an ending that's entirely up to your interpretation, man.

Excuse me guys, I'm gonna be out for a while looking for a good Oscar shelf for my mansion. PEACE

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Yes, the original Tumbler was a prototype. So if Bane (well, the whole world, really) starts seeing all these Tumblers rolling off the assembly line at Wayne Corp then aren't people going to be like "oh, that's where Batman got his Batmobile. Oh, wait a minute. Did Wayne Corp know a Tumbler was stolen? Why didn't it report this to the police? Wait... there's more! Bruce Wayne is a rich billionaire who has easy access to all these gadgets!. Wait a minute... OMG!! His jaw line looks just like Batman's!!!"

Or people could assume that that crazy fucker Batman stole it. We don't really know whether it was reported to the police or not.

Perhaps Bruce even signs the deal himself and sells them a gimped version.

 

[- J - D -]

Was Bane's connection to Harvey Dent ever discussed? Seems like this would be a significant plot point.

8 years after his death, the people of Gotham learn the truth about their white knight?

 

[Wingfan19]

Was Bane's connection to Harvey Dent ever discussed? Seems like this would be a significant plot point.

8 years after his death, the people of Gotham learn the truth about their white knight?

I have a feeling he's just dis-crediting Harvey in public to draw Batman out in that scene.

 

[- J - D -]

I have a feeling he's just dis-crediting Harvey in public to draw Batman out in that scene.

Oh right, I remember those on-set photos of the huge brawl. But why would that draw out Batman? And in the middle of the day.

 

[Messypandas]

Was Bane's connection to Harvey Dent ever discussed? Seems like this would be a significant plot point.

8 years after his death, the people of Gotham learn the truth about their white knight?

They did zumba classes together

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Was Bane's connection to Harvey Dent ever discussed? Seems like this would be a significant plot point.

8 years after his death, the people of Gotham learn the truth about their white knight?

What concerns me about that picture and some of the on-set pictures I've seen is that it seems to be painting Bane as a revolutionary leader who is gathering much support. But his getup seems so ridiculous, especially in the realistic Nolanverse, that it could come off as really cheesy.

Anyone else have similar reservations?

 

[Kyaw]

So let me get this right, GAF...

..the prologue will come with only the IMAX screening of Mission Impossible 4

and

..the trailer will come with ANY version of Sherlock Holmes?

 

[shira]

What concerns me about that picture and some of the on-set pictures I've seen is that it seems to be painting Bane as a revolutionary leader who is gathering much support. But his getup seems so ridiculous, especially in the realistic Nolanverse, that it could come off as really cheesy.

Anyone else have similar reservations?

He might know the truth about Dent's not-so-white knighthood.

So let me get this right, GAF...

..the prologue will come with only the IMAX screening of Mission Impossible 4

and

..the trailer will come with ANY version of Sherlock Holmes?

I assume MI4 will have both at some point.

 

[Expendable.]

So let me get this right, GAF...

..the prologue will come with only the IMAX screening of Mission Impossible 4

and

..the trailer will come with ANY version of Sherlock Holmes?

There is only one version of Sherlock Holmes...but yes.

 

[Dmax3901]

The drink is a thing called Wheatgrass. Google it.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Sorry if this is obvious. If Bane steals Wayne Corp's tanks while Bruce is away/recovering do we assume that Bane knows Wayne is Batman fairly early on in the movie?

If Bane is indeed working with The League of Assassins/Shadows, Batman's secret identity is probably common knowledge.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

He might know the truth about Dent's not-so-white knighthood.

After 8 years, I don't see why anyone would give a shit. He was a District Attorney.

And wouldn't revealing the truth about Dent only strengthen support for Batman? Why would Bane would do that?

 

[Kyaw]

There is only one version of Sherlock Holmes...but yes.

Oh yeah, derp.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The drink is a thing called Wheatgrass. Google it.

That much wheatgrass juice? I drank a shot of that once and could not stomach it. Shit is disgusting.

 

[Daft_Cat]

After 8 years, I don't see why anyone would give a shit. He was a District Attorney.

And wouldn't revealing the truth about Dent only strengthen support for Batman? Why would Bane would do that?

I don't see why eight years would soften the impact of finding out that a glorified heroic figure was a murderer.

Assuming that Gordon and Bruce succeeded in selling Dent as the "hero Gotham needed", the passage of time would probably just make it worse. Once Gotham gets a look at the real Harvey Dent and all the heroic things he's done, the city will topple. Actually, it seems like TDKR is probably going to be thematically derived from the Joker's last scene in TDK.

Dent's legacy, by this point, is probably almost mythic. By destroying it, it's sort of like Bane is killing a God.

 

[Mike Works]

Just got spoiled on WWTDD.com of all places about the time jump. God damnit, it's going to be fucking impossible to go on media blackout (trailers aside) for this film, isn't it?

 

[effzee]

Wouldn't it make more sense that Bane took those after Bruce leaves Gotham? Because if Bruce is just being Bruce during the 8 years, then he should especially be able to keep an eye on his tech and who's getting in and out of his company. If he's out of the country again, then it stands that's what would allow Bane to co-opt the Tumblers and etc.



That's what I'm thinking: that he's still active as Batman during those 8 years, gets his ass handed to him by Bane in the first half of the movie, leaves to go train or whatever, then returns to Gotham where Bane is in charge and Gordon is in the hospital lamenting over Batman's absence.

Yeah again its confusing. If he has been gone for 8 years and Bane destroying Gotham forces him back into action, the title and theme makes sense. Especially the teaser dialogue.

But it wouldn't make sense since Nolan himself in the interview says he is frozen in the moment from the end of TDK where has become a murdered, the police is chasing him, and the MOB/criminals now fear him thinking he is a killer now (broke his 1 rule). To my mind movie/story works better if it picks up from this point with him being active, police chasing him still, and the mob scared shitless of him.

Maybe

Spoiler

he gives up on Gotham if Bane does cause a revolution and takes over the city. Maybe Bruce feels like he can't do any more any more and leaves as Batman. Bane takes over fooling everyone into thinking he is what Gotham needs as a savior. Bruce with all his internal struggles decides he is no longer wanted, needed, or can no longer save Gotham.

 

[jett]

Just got spoiled on WWTDD.com of all places about the time jump. God damnit, it's going to be fucking impossible to go on media blackout (trailers aside) for this film, isn't it?

The one day I go to expendables' website to go look at film news, I get spoiled with the same crap right there in the headline. Meh whatever it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Just got spoiled on WWTDD.com of all places about the time jump. God damnit, it's going to be fucking impossible to go on media blackout (trailers aside) for this film, isn't it?

Well, hanging out in here probably won't do you any favours.

People are way to spoiler conscious. The time jump is officially released information.