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[Wilbur]

Sure, you can just pick out cheesy dialogue (which as you correctly stated, all the above movies have). But outside of that, TDK's script is incredibly on-the-nose, hammering you over the head time and again with the themes, and it has some very poorly conceived and written scenes like the ferry scene. So its not like its only dialogue that has some issues.

I can't even think of specifics that you could criticise. The end speech is a bit cheesy. The themes are obvious through the characters and actions, not just the script. I don't really understand what's wrong with the ferry scene; outside of some again pretty poor dialogue the actual dilemma facing them is a good scene.

EDIT: Two minutes into Speed Racer -

All he talks about, all he seems
capable of thinking about is
automobile racing.

ON THE FUCKING NOSE

 

[Solo]

I can't even think of specifics that you could criticise. The end speech is a bit cheesy. The themes are obvious through the characters and actions, not just the script. I don't really understand what's wrong with the ferry scene; outside of some again pretty poor dialogue the actual dilemma facing them is a good scene.

Aside from how incredibly hokey and poorly constructed it is, its also completely superfluous. We had already been shown multiple times before that scene what the Joker's motivations and endgame were.

 

[DMczaf]

I come home and Solo is still on his 4 year long quest to tell us how bad TDK is.

 

[Solo]

Only because it was brought up, my man. I no longer seek it out. Also, I'm having an honest, level-headed discussion about it instead of trolling.

That, as they say, is progress.

 

[Wilbur]

Aside from how incredibly hokey and poorly constructed it is, its also completely superfluous. We had already been shown multiple times before that scene what the Joker's motivations and endgame were.

Right, so once again comparing it to Spider-Man and Speed Racer... we know Doc Ock wants to make his weird energy ball. Should we not be reminded of this? We know Speed's brother died, I've been told by the commentators for the thousandth fucking time. Do I not need to be told again?

It's script is fine. People nitpick, people find complaints when they should just watch the film. I don't understand what's superfluous about it. We know Joker wants Gotham to swallow itself whole, fuck itself up. Piling on the misery only strengthens his position at the top of the food chain, all the gangsters don't sit around and think his plans are getting tiring and repetitive.

 

[Solo]

It's script is fine. People nitpick, people find complaints when they should just watch the film. I don't understand what's superfluous about it. We know Joker wants Gotham to swallow itself whole, fuck itself up. Piling on the misery only strengthens his position at the top of the food chain, all the gangsters don't sit around and think his plans are getting tiring and repetitive.

- Joker robs a bank and kills his crew and a mafioso. We discover that the Joker is insane, has a flair for the theatrical, is a pathological liar, and thrives on chaos.
- Joker interrupts a mob meeting and suggests murdering Batman. We discover that the Joker is insane, has a flair for the theatrical, is a pathological liar, and thrives on chaos. Again.
- Joker kills a Batman wannabe and hangs him from the mayor's office (and, for maximum combo points, manages to have him land perfectly in front of the mayor's window when he happens to be staring out of it). We discover that the Joker is insane, has a flair for the theatrical, is a pathological liar, and thrives on chaos. Uh huh.
- Joker puts bombs on Rachel and Harvey and gives Batman the addresses of where they are, but in reverse order. Batman goes for Rachel and ends up getting Harvey. Rachel dies. We discover that the Joker is insane, has a flair for the theatrical, is a pathological liar, and thrives on chaos. You don't say?
- Joker blows up a hospital and manipulates Dent. We discover that the Joker is insane, has a flair for the theatrical, is a pathological liar, and thrives on chaos. Yeah, I get it.
-etc.

Did we really need yet another scene to show all this about the Joker? At least the Rachel/Harvey scenes and the hospital scene were nicely conceived and executed.

With each successive plot he pulls off the movie becomes less and less believable (insert "believability? in a move about a man dressed as a bat?" comment here). There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is ignorance of it. Every single one of his plans hangs on so many little things he can't possibly control going perfectly right, and somehow they always do (aside from the ferry). We are told he is a "dog chasing cars" when in fact he has to be an intellectual giant with a horse shoe the size of the planet Krypton shoved up his ass in order to mastermind the shit he does in this movie.

 

[789shadow]

No Solo, none of your shit matters because people liked and will always like the movie.

 

[Solo]

Well, you certainly told me. Look, its fine if you can get past (or not have) the issues with the movie. It really is. But don't tell me it doesn't matter or they don't exist.

I have no problem with people liking the movie. Nor should you have a problem with people disliking aspects of it.

 

[Tedesco!]

The first half of that movie, maybe. The second half is garbage.

The second half is still better than Speed Racer. I'd put Men In Black and Blade as better comic book movies than Speed Racer.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Still not sure who was driving the car :lol

One of his henchmen that he escapes with. They're also probably the guys driving the two cars behind him.

 

[Solo]

Sin City always seems to get forgotten in the discussion of comic book movies.

EDIT: Thats what I would assume, Yamato. Its just that his manuerisms and the framing are so bizarre that it half looks like he's stretch Armstrong and somehow driving from the back seat :lol

 

[CriscoDisco]

While I'd like to argue with some of Solo's points, his delivery is actually pretty funny.

 

[Tedesco!]

Sin City always seems to get forgotten in the discussion of comic book movies.

EDIT: Thats what I would assume, Yamato. Its just that his manuerisms and the framing are so bizarre that it half looks like he's stretch Armstrong and somehow driving from the back seat :lol

As does the original TMNT.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Sin City always seems to get forgotten in the discussion of comic book movies.

EDIT: Thats what I would assume, Yamato. Its just that his manuerisms and the framing are so bizarre that it half looks like he's stretch Armstrong and somehow driving from the back seat :lol

Sin City is incredible. And the single most faithful comic book adaptation.

 

[Solo]

As does the original TMNT.

Its been years since I watched any of them (like, at least a decade), but my childhood memories were of loving TMNT 1 and 2.

Im too scared to revisit either one as an adult for fear of what I might see now.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Solo: Film has continuity in how the antagonist behaves, and I can't stand it!

Really though, the plausibility of the Joker's schemes is a valid point (he IS a criminal mastermind, always has been in the comics, and always will be in any serious portrayal of him. His "dog chasing cars" monologue was more to get Dent to believe it was entirely chance that Rachel was killed), but to complain that a movie is constantly showing us how evil The Joker is is like getting annoyed that Sam Raimi always showed us Spider-Man could shoot webs.

 

[Blader]

The second half is still better than Speed Racer. I'd put Men In Black and Blade as better comic book movies than Speed Racer.

I thought Speed Racer was pretty stupid, so don't expect any counterarguments from me. :lol

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

I didn't get the part with the bomb in the guys stomach in the dark knight. It blows up and all the cops die in the explosion but the joker who is just standing there doesn't get hurt at all? Or am I missing something?

 

[Yamauchi]

PM please!

Me too.

 

[Discotheque]

I didn't get the part with the bomb in the guys stomach in the dark knight. It blows up and all the cops die in the explosion but the joker who is just standing there doesn't get hurt at all? Or am I missing something?

he had anti-explosive shoes on or something.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I didn't get the part with the bomb in the guys stomach in the dark knight. It blows up and all the cops die in the explosion but the joker who is just standing there doesn't get hurt at all? Or am I missing something?

They don't die. Just stunned. Joker hid behind something.

 

[Solo]

but to complain that a movie is constantly showing us how evil The Joker is is like getting annoyed that Sam Raimi always showed us Spider-Man could shoot webs.

I dunno, I liken it to Jake Nicholson in The Departed. The first scene he is in establishes wonderfully how completely unhinged he is. And then we get several more. Okay, no problem. Then we get a few more. Then after a while it ceased being character development and became nothing more than Jack chewing scenery in multiple scenes that never should have made it past a first cut. The final product is an overly long, meandering film which needed a solid 30 minutes trimmed from it. With all those superfluous Nicholson scenes, they could easily have done just that.

/tangent

I'm not arguing against continuity. There is setting a baseline for a character's behavior, and then there is running it into the ground.

Anyways, moving on.....how about that TDKR?

 

[cackhyena]

I still dig TDK but I'm with you, solo.

 

[revolverjgw]

Its been years since I watched any of them (like, at least a decade), but my childhood memories were of loving TMNT 1 and 2.

Im too scared to revisit either one as an adult for fear of what I might see now.

The first one gets more awesome with every passing year

 

[PhoncipleBone]

And many people on here don't get that you can criticize a movie and point out issues with it, yet still enjoy it and love it.

 

[Solo]

And many people on here don't get that you can criticize a movie and point out issues with it, yet still enjoy it and love it.

Indeed. I can (and have) torn the majority of Bond films to shreds over their copious flaws. But I still love most of them.

No Pepper pictures, DM.

 

[DMczaf]

And many people on here don't get that you can criticize a movie and point out issues with it, yet still enjoy it and love it.

Except Solo doesn't enjoy and love TDK, and has to remind us every month (when he's not banned from asking for sammiches).

Anyways, sorry to break up Solo's monthly "Why you shouldn't like TDK" soapbox, time for more gifs!

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

Its been years since I watched any of them (like, at least a decade), but my childhood memories were of loving TMNT 1 and 2.

Im too scared to revisit either one as an adult for fear of what I might see now.

TMNT 1 holds up incredibly well. Just got the Blu about a month ago. Unfortunately I had to get it with Parts 2, 3 and the animated movie. Part 2..bad. They were playing to the masses. It became a kids movie where the first wasn't entirely that.


Plus, those suits in the first one were phenomenal. They should be used in the neverending CG vs practical debate.

 

[Solo]

Except Solo doesn't enjoy and love TDK

I enjoy parts of it just fine, thank you very much! Despite my above complaints about the Joker being something of a broken record, Ledger played the shit out of him. So pretty much every Joker scene gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[bengraven]

God damn I know Hathaway is going to kill this. In a good way.

And many people on here don't get that you can criticize a movie and point out issues with it, yet still enjoy it and love it.

I don't think people are upset about criticisms.

I think they're upset because it's hard to love a movie that you say "is pure shit".

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Anyways, moving on.....how about that TDKR?

Not enough info. =/ How about a gif of Bane

Spoiler

dropping the broken Batman mask?

So boss.

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

I don't want to debate TDK..but I have a question for it's fans (or as I like to call them defenders).

Why did Batman have to take responsibility for Dent did?

I don't want the answer they gave me, which was...Gotham would crumble because they put all their faith in Dent..which is barely established in the movie. They never cut to any crowds rallying around Dent, save for one shot of him on a television.

Again, to clarify...

Why did Batman HAVE to take the blame for the dead cops?

 

[Discotheque]

something about past convictions being called into question due to the prosecutor being a murderer.

 

[Makoto]

I don't want to debate TDK..but I have a question for it's fans (or as I like to call them defenders).

Why did Batman have to take responsibility for Dent did?

I don't want the answer they gave me, which was...Gotham would crumble because they put all their faith in Dent..which is barely established in the movie. They never cut to any crowds rallying around Dent, save for one shot of him on a television.

Again, to clarify...

Why did Batman HAVE to take the blame for the dead cops?

The city needed to let go of the vigilante and embrace someone tangible. They needed an official to praise, but mostly, they just needed to let go of their need for a vigilante like Batman.

 

[Solo]

I'm a "hater" and even I think that yes, Batman had to take responsibility. Actually, that was one of my favorite aspects about the movie. It was the only way to "beat" the Joker. No complaints about that and I absolutely love the final 10 minutes of the movie.

 

[bengraven]

Yeah, the kids shouldn't look up to Batman.

It's a rushed scene at the end but it makes perfect sense. The Dark Knight Saga is all about the symbol of Batman. The idea. Kind of nice to see someone doing great work while focusing on something more interesting than "let's put stupid freeze jokes in here".

Dent is a more respectable symbol than Batman. He's what kids should be looking up to, someone who can do real, brave work in the public eye without fear.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm honestly looking more forward to Hathaway in this movie than a lot of other stuff. Just from the trailer alone, I can tell that she took it really seriously and she's doing a great looking job.

 

[Recon]

I don't want to debate TDK..but I have a question for it's fans (or as I like to call them defenders).

Why did Batman have to take responsibility for Dent did?

I don't want the answer they gave me, which was...Gotham would crumble because they put all their faith in Dent..which is barely established in the movie. They never cut to any crowds rallying around Dent, save for one shot of him on a television.

Again, to clarify...

Why did Batman HAVE to take the blame for the dead cops?

It would of undermined all the good that was happening in Gotham. A staggering amount of criminals would have re-trials or would be set free. It would of shown that even the best could be corrupted.

 

[Solo]

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

Dent was actually the latter, but they had to fashion him into the martyr and be the former or else Joker's plan to create chaos would have succeeded.

 

[DMczaf]

something about past convictions being called into question due to the prosecutor being a murderer.

That + Batman was able to use it so that criminals will believe he will kill now. Maroni tells him that people know about his one rule, you can't have criminals thinking you're soft!

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

So Harvey's actions (if discovered) would make all the evidence against the criminals invalid?

 

[Solo]

That + Batman was able to use it so that criminals will believe he will kill now. Maroni tells him that people know about his one rule, you can't have criminals thinking you're soft!

That too. Its a two win (beating the Joker, putting fear back into the hearts of the mob) and one loss (becoming public enemy #1) decision for Batman.

 

[Recon]

That + Batman was able to use it so that criminals will believe he will kill now. Maroni tells him that people know about his one rule, you can't have criminals thinking you're soft!

I never thought of that. It does make sense, even though i dont think that was the angle the movie was going for. But it does make Batman into a even more frightening figure in peoples minds.

 

[Discotheque]

So Harvey's actions (if discovered) would make all the evidence against the criminals invalid?

no but it would make way for a shit-load of appeals. And some would be successful. Gordon and Batman were too lazy to deal with that....so he'll run, because he can take it.

 

[Solo]

So Harvey's actions (if discovered) would make all the evidence against the criminals invalid?

I don't know about that. Not unless it could be proven that he was crooked and falsified charges or whatnot.

The issue isn't a legal one. Its a society/cultural one. Its established that Gotham is largely a cesspool of humanity with only a few decent citizens will to fight back against crime and corruption. It wouldn't exactly be great for morale if one of the very few upstanding public figures were to be exposed as being a murdering psychopath.

 

[DMczaf]

Besides, the Harvey Dent thing is a huge part of the TDKR plot. Oldman already spoiled it, and forced Nolan to talk about it to the LA Times.

Nolan is going to Guy Pearce him.

 

[cackhyena]

Nolan is going to Guy Pearce him.

I'm not familiar. Pearce let secrets go about Memento and Nolan said gtfo for future roles?

 

[DMczaf]

I'm not familiar. Pearce let secrets go about Memento and Nolan said gtfo for future roles?

Oh Guy knows what he did. He knows.

 

[Solo]

I'm not familiar. Pearce let secrets go about Memento and Nolan said gtfo for future roles?

No. Its just a joke even more tired than my TDK bitching.

 

[Discotheque]

why wasn't Christian Bale cast in Inception? Or Gary Oldman for that matter.