Support NeoGAF

[Uno Venova]

nah, horrible raw
not even average, i'd give it a 3/10
just a terrible raw

What's up with you?

 

[NoRéN]

What's up with you?

This thread broke him.

 

[G-Fex]

Well surprise surprise guess what just happened in the Smackdown spoilers

Why is Teddy Long still here?

Johnny Ace has his perks, Teddy I can't stand.

 

[UberTag]

Why is Teddy Long still here?

You know the answer to that question. He will happily humiliate himself for Vince's amusement and is perfectly capable acting as the figurehead powerbroker for a wrestling brand that's going nowhere and spinning its wheels. Teddy is one of Vince's champions for mediocrity.

Next thing you'll tell me that you're expecting Rumble matches to be booked or anything meaningful to happen on a wrestling program between now and January 2nd.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Why is Teddy Long still here?

Johnny Ace has his perks, Teddy I can't stand.

No idea, by this point they should have had Mick Foley replace him. They feel the need to have a GM character now, but he has been the GM for way too long.

 

[darkside31337]

Teddy Long is still gonna hang around? Thought this whole thing was going to end with Teddy Long ending his presidential campaign time as GM of Smackdown because of inappropriate conduct with the ladies, which then leads to Triple H stepping in as the new GM of Smackdown.

 

[G-Fex]

No idea, by this point they should have had Mick Foley replace him. They feel the need to have a GM character now, but he has been the GM for way too long.

Yeah man I remember him from the last time I probably ever watched Smackdown years and years ago. When he came to SD I was like WTF :\. I was out of the wrasslin scene, I'm assuming those years just went like these on SD.

You know the answer to that question. He will happily humiliate himself for Vince's amusement and is perfectly capable acting as the figurehead powerbroker for a wrestling brand that's going nowhere and spinning its wheels. Teddy is one of Vince's champions for mediocrity.

Next thing you'll tell me that you're expecting Rumble matches to be booked or anything meaningful to happen on a wrestling program between now and January 2nd.

You're right uber, gotta stop asking questions.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Smackdown spoilers

Spoiler

Speakers were set up in the ring for a talking segment that will start the show. Teddy Long came out and announced Big Show vs. Mark Henry to earn a shot at Daniel Bryan's World Hvt. Championship.

1. Zack Ryder defeated Cody Rhodes in a champion vs. champion. Ryder won as Booker sang Cody the Red Nosed Reindeer on top of the announce table. Ryder hit the Rough Ryder and got the win.

Big Show vs. Mark Henry was cancelled by David Otunga, who said Henry wasn't medically cleared due to blood pressure issues from previous injuries. Big Show gave him the WMD. Otunga spilled his coffee, so they had to change the ring apron.

The Miz and Teddy Long had a backstage segment. Miz challenged anyone from Smackdown. The challenge was answered by Sheamus.

2. Sheamus defeated The Miz. Sheamus won with a Brogue Kick.

Wade Barrett came out and cut an anti-Randy Orton promo based on Survivor Series footage. Barrett said Happy Christmas, and Orton came out to a huge pop and chased Barrett backstage. Barrett kicked the camera.

3. Kofi Kingston (w/Evan Bourne) defeated Primo (w/Epico). Kofi won with Trouble in Paradise.

4. Daniel Bryan fought Dolph Ziggler to a no-contest. During the match, Big Show came out as well as Jack Swagger, so Teddy Long made it a tag team match.

5. Daniel Bryan and Big Show defeated Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger. Bryan won the match for his team by using the LeBell Lock and making Swagger tap.

Glad they

Spoiler

are making Daniel Bryan look strong. Man I hope they let him keep the title for month than a month

 

[canadian crowe]

So I found out why Hero was annoyed with Perkins.Perkins was basically talking smack about him on formspring. I get the impression that he's not a fan of Hero's.

You say indy's are crap and for good experience you need to go world wide. Chris Hero has done NOAH plenty and all over the planet. You still said he doesn't have experience. Why? I agree he's not that great, I'm just trying to understand.

A guy like Chris will go and work a show, or a tour, and all of a sudden they are toyting international experience.

Going somewhere as a star listed on a poster as opposed to going as an unknown and a student, living there, training there, staying there, and being a part of the culture and having it truly shape you as a person.....two very VERY different things.

So when i say international experience, thats what i mean. I can count on one hand tye amount of peers i know who have gone off to another country with dick in their pocket and lived in a gym, ate foreign food, called a ratty dojo loft or hotel room home, and earned the right to call thenself a wrestler bred from those enviornments.

And of those few guys maybe only 1 or two are trendy in the eyes of the indy audience.

When you go over as the american guest star you learn very little in comparison. Your hand is held, you are treated and accomodated well, not much is expected of you outside of your name value on a poster.

Hero seems very friendly to fans. Why isnt he an asshole to them?

I suppose someone has to buy his boat load of merchandise and circulate the idea of how great he is.

Probably mostly merchandise, and i don't blame him at all for that. Good business hustling.

That Low Ki incident happened over a combo of his attitude and his merch loyalty. He had a problem with Kingston in the ring and owed an explanation as well as concern for Kingston. Ki got mad because after the match and after going on another mic tirade he went straight to the merchandise stand to sell as much stuff as he could before people left, rather than make a short trip to the locker room and acknowledging his peers and a possible injury and problem first.

IIRC that whole thing was over lack of respect for the fellow guys as opposed to peddling merch.

Do you think Hero will confront you on this stuff you've said?

Who knows? who cares really...

he has confronted me once before. Years ago around the time i first met Lucky O`shea. i can`t remember if we were dating yet or not but Hero was myspace stalking her doing his usual routine.

Step1)approach vulnerable fan/new female wrestler
Step 2) "Hey I'm totally Chris Hero, the whole world thinks I'm awesome, don`t you?"
Step 3)CHARM

only he never made it to step 3 because Lucky thinks he is an awful wrestler and could care less who he is. Anyhow she mentioned me in some fashion i can't remember the context but basically like hey leave me alone buddy.

So Hero got WHITE HOT about it and emailed me a raging angry email. I didn`t even respond because i had no idea at the time what the hell he was even talking about. As if i was the one who sabotaged his weak pick up skills.

lol from then on it was like nothing ever happened. We work together, say hi and bye, make small talk.

Either way i can care less about a confrontation.

Do you think maybe Hero thinks he's a locker-room leader who has to dish out tough love to younger guys like Willie Mack and he thinks he's just being old-school?

A guy with his lack of genuine experience has no place acting like that or directing anyone. Problem with him is he can`t identify the difference between legitimate experience and popularity. he has one of one thing and little of the other.

I also don't agree with that "this is so and so`s locker room.." bullshit.

Its everyones locker room. No one leads it. Those who are held in high regard have that given to them by individuals not claimed by them through their own estimations.

I don't care how long a guy has wrestled in a place, or wrestled period. That is no measure of you as a human being, a leader, or your experience as a professional.

If a guy needs help he will come to you and ask you. People ask me for help all the time, but i never, ever, seek them out and tell them what i think without them asking first. Even in my own matches. If the guy is happy afterward thats good enough for me. He can sort out his own questions if he has any and ask whomever he wants.

Could you elaborate please on Hero's assholish behaviour?

Well, last PWG show was a pretty good example. Publicly berating Willie Mack post match because the match wasn't going the way Hero wanted it too. I guess it was a situation where Hero makes his big return to the indy spotlight to bask in his own glory and is upset that the match didn't go his way. He continued the tirade in the back telling Willie all the things he was bad at.

Ive seen Hero do that to tons of people as if he has so much experience. He is the king of his own world, I've even seen him do it to Claudio. He is easily the most egotistical wrestler I've ever met, and i have met every member of the kliq, and all the major players in just about every major company in the world. Unlike them though, much of his greatness is fabrication and exaggeration.

I bet it scares him to death to retire someday not being glorified as the worlds greatest everything forever.

Chris Hero always seems like such a laid-back guy. Does he just transform into an asshole or something? Does he realise how he behaves?

I think he is pretty much a D-bag all the time and just puts on a nice guy jacket sometimes.

It`s funny because a lot of us shake our heads at his egotistical behavior and he shakes his head right back as if the rest of the world is crazy. I love it actually. You can`t invent characters like that.

On the other hand theres no way he does`t realize it, after all the biggest Chris Hero fan in the world is Chris Hero.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Smackdown spoilers

Spoiler

Speakers were set up in the ring for a talking segment that will start the show. Teddy Long came out and announced Big Show vs. Mark Henry to earn a shot at Daniel Bryan's World Hvt. Championship.

1. Zack Ryder defeated Cody Rhodes in a champion vs. champion. Ryder won as Booker sang Cody the Red Nosed Reindeer on top of the announce table. Ryder hit the Rough Ryder and got the win.

Big Show vs. Mark Henry was cancelled by David Otunga, who said Henry wasn't medically cleared due to blood pressure issues from previous injuries. Big Show gave him the WMD. Otunga spilled his coffee, so they had to change the ring apron.

The Miz and Teddy Long had a backstage segment. Miz challenged anyone from Smackdown. The challenge was answered by Sheamus.

2. Sheamus defeated The Miz. Sheamus won with a Brogue Kick.

Wade Barrett came out and cut an anti-Randy Orton promo based on Survivor Series footage. Barrett said Happy Christmas, and Orton came out to a huge pop and chased Barrett backstage. Barrett kicked the camera.

3. Kofi Kingston (w/Evan Bourne) defeated Primo (w/Epico). Kofi won with Trouble in Paradise.

4. Daniel Bryan fought Dolph Ziggler to a no-contest. During the match, Big Show came out as well as Jack Swagger, so Teddy Long made it a tag team match.

5. Daniel Bryan and Big Show defeated Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger. Bryan won the match for his team by using the LeBell Lock and making Swagger tap.

Glad they

Spoiler

are making Daniel Bryan look strong. Man I hope they let him keep the title for month than a month

Can't help but feel that they're just coasting until the Rumble. Some house show ass booking recently.

 

[G-Fex]

I'll be happy when December is over

 

[bangai-o]

Vince gives the universe the damn champions that they wanted and everyones still pissed off

 

[Kaladin]

Watch Final Battle instead of Smackdown, even with Bryan as champ.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Vince gives the universe the damn champions that they wanted and everyones still pissed off

Referring to my comment about the Smackdown spoilers? If so, I'm not pissed off at anything, really, but they're totally coasting with Raw and Smackdown this week. Someone could skip both shows and not have missed anything of substance going into next week.

Watch Final Battle instead of Smackdown, even with Bryan as champ.

Yep. Luckily Smackdown is always on Youtube a good 6-8 hours before it even airs EST so I'll still speed through it in time for Final Battle.

HYPE

 

[BoboBrazil]

Referring to my comment about the Smackdown spoilers? If so, I'm not pissed off at anything, really, but they're totally coasting with Raw and Smackdown this week. Someone could skip both shows and not have missed anything of substance going into next week.



Yep. Luckily Smackdown is always on Youtube a good 6-8 hours before it even airs EST so I'll still speed through it in time for Final Battle.

HYPE

Except an awesome feel good moment with Punk, Bryan, and Ryder to begin the show and a great 6 man tag to end the show that actually had Bryan win the match by tapping out Del Rio! I feel bad for anyone who missed that. It was awesome.

Spoiler

Except for Cole shitting it up

 

[Perspicacity]

Except an awesome feel good moment with Punk, Bryan, and Ryder to begin the show and a great 6 man tag to end the show that actually had Bryan win the match by tapping out Del Rio! I feel bad for anyone who missed that. It was awesome.

Spoiler

Except for Cole shitting it up

I think that's sort of what Net_Wrecker was saying, they're just sort of letting the faces win unchecked, no drama until the Rumble gets closer.

It's not bad per se, but it's not must see TV

 

[bangai-o]

Referring to my comment about the Smackdown spoilers

neh. just g fex wanting december to be overwith already.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I think that's sort of what Net_Wrecker was saying, they're just sort of letting the faces win unchecked, no drama until the Rumble gets closer.

It's not bad per se, but it's not must see TV

Exactly. It's fun, but there's no hook. No forward momentum. Both shows this week seem like good filler eps. It's not bad by any means, but it's still just filler.

neh. just g fex wanting december to be overwith already.

You'll just have to excuse G-Fex. He's going through some type of depression. Something to do with his racist way of life I'm guessing.

 

[DMczaf]

http://allwrestling.com/news/40371/recap-exclusive-podcast-interview-tna/

On whether he would jump ship to the WWE:

“I’m still with TNA; we have a fantastic financial agreement. The relationship between me and TNA has always been great. I’m the type of person that really lives in the moment. I don’t put too much into trying to build scenarios that are bad. As long as I get an opportunity to wrestle and wrestle great people then I have the greatest job in the world.”

 

[Htown]

Good matches are never filler.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Good matches are never filler.

This.

I'll refrain from commenting any further due to inevitable meltdown.

 

[G-Fex]

besides them coming out winners, december sucked.

it's a december to dismember and discard

 

[Shadowlink]

WWE '12 is $29.99 for Xbox 360/PS3 on Bestbuy.com

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Good matches are never filler.

I beg to differ. I'm 99% sure nothing of consequence will come of that 6 man tag in the next 5 weeks leading to the Rumble. That's filler. It's good filler, but it's still filler. It was basically a dark match main event, but on TV.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I beg to differ. I'm 99% sure nothing of consequence will come of that 6 man tag in the next 5 weeks leading to the Rumble. That's filler. It's good filler, but it's still filler. It was basically a dark match main event, but on TV.

Just a terrible post. Too late at night and way past my bedtime to elaborate but I wanted to make it clear how terrible that post is.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Just a terrible post. Too late at night and way past my bedtime to elaborate but I wanted to make it clear how terrible that post is.

Either make your point or STFU.

EDIT: Y'know what, no. Don't elaborate. I'd rather not waste my time discussing shit with you cause, let's face it, there's no point. I see clearly now. Raw wasn't filler, your posts are.

 

[G-Fex]

I think you both are wrong?

Oh fuck it I don't care.

 

[BoboBrazil]

It was a Christmas present for the fans on a go home show before Christmas. There was storyline progression as well. Big Show played off being cool with Daniel Bryan cashing in on him, but there was underlying tension and you could tell he was pissed off, but not trying to show it. Kane progressed his feud with Cena some more. They have over a month until Royal Rumble to do angles leading into the ppv and those are two potential matchups already that should be taking place at Royal Rumble that have the seeds planted. The Rumble itself is the main attraction and I'm sure people will start mentioning it in promos soon saying the want to win to earn the title shot at Wrestlemania. They don't need to start immediately pushing the next show hard the night after the previous one. It's all about hyping the previous night and the events that took place and it always has been in the WWE to try and get replay buys.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

It was a Christmas present for the fans on a go home show before Christmas. There was storyline progression as well. Big Show played off being cool with Daniel Bryan cashing in on him, but there was underlying tension and you could tell he was pissed off, but not trying to show it. Kane progressed his feud with Cena some more. They have over a month until Royal Rumble to do angles leading into the ppv and those are two potential matchups already that should be taking place at Royal Rumble that have the seeds planted. The Rumble itself is the main attraction and I'm sure people will start mentioning it in promos soon saying the want to win to earn the title shot at Wrestlemania. They don't need to start immediately pushing the next show hard the night after the previous one. It's all about hyping the previous night and the events that took place and it always has been in the WWE to try and get replay buys.

Uhhh, ok I must have not been paying attention to Show's interview (just watched it ...again?), and the Kane thing legit slipped my mind. In any case, I, personally, wasn't really hooked by anything on the show. Aside from the opening promo, the rest felt like any other Christmas/end of the year Raw. Note I didn't say anything in particular was terribad, just nothing substantial. It's not even about pushing the Rumble, there just wasn't something I could see anyone kicking themselves for missing. I mean, the ratings give some validity to my comments. People still tuned out despite the great opening. I'd like to believe that wouldn't have happened if most of the show wasn't business as usual.

 

[UberTag]

I believe what Net_Wrecker is driving that is he's not merely satisified with the right guys getting put over and the matches in the ring being good. He's tired of the blatant apathy Vince (and thusly Creative) has towards the product ALL THE TIME until they decide to hastily build towards a PPV two weeks in advance.

I suggest he doesn't watch next week with any sort of expectations, either. Nothing is happening except by the numbers BS nonsense until the 2nd when Jericho returns at the end of the show. They'll probably then break with form and spend THREE weeks building towards the Rumble (which will likely be won by Randy in his hometown) beginning on January 9th.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Guys guys love and peace!!!!

 

[BoboBrazil]

Uhhh, ok I must have not been paying attention to Show's interview (just watched it ...again?), and the Kane thing legit slipped my mind. In any case, I, personally, wasn't really hooked by anything on the show. Aside from the opening promo, the rest felt like any other Christmas/end of the year Raw. Note I didn't say anything in particular was terribad, just nothing substantial. It's not even about pushing the Rumble, there just wasn't something I could see anyone kicking themselves for missing. I mean, the ratings give some validity to my comments. People still tuned out despite the great opening. I'd like to believe that wouldn't have happened if most of the show wasn't business as usual.

The show has been business as usual for the last 5 months, except for Daniel Bryan winning at TLC. Would you really kick youself for missing anything on Raw if you didn't watch the last 5 months? The last eventful thing with MITB and the few weeks of follow up afterwards. Before MITB there wasn't anything for the entire year before until the Nexus debuted. They've done away with the gritty, edgy, anything can happen approach on Raw. Just be happy both world champions are great in the ring and can put on amazing matches and the US champion is someone who, a year ago, was borderline fired and just waiting for that Friday voicemail informing him, before he decided to do something about it and get himself over. All I know is, for the first time since Money In The Bank, I am happy with what WWE delivered to me this week. I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the ride until WWE decides to mess it up.

 

[British Monsoon]

So I found out why Hero was annoyed with Perkins.Perkins was basically talking smack about him on formspring. I get the impression that he's not a fan of Hero's.

Heh, that's all pretty amusing, but I don't think TJP is in a position to shit all over Hero like that. Especially when he himself is building a reputation with promoters as being difficult to work with. I get the impression that he's very proud of the fact that he went to train at Inoki's dojo, has trained extensively with Ultimo Dragon and was part of this years New Japan Super Juniors tournament, but it's funny that he criticises Hero for 'claiming' international experience when Hero spent a TON of time early in his career working and living in Germany, at a time when not many US wrestlers saw mainland Europe as a viable place to ply their trade. Also, Hero may not have trained with Inoki, but he and Claudio have more tours of Japan under their belt than pretty much any current US indy workers and more than that, actually got over with the Japanese crowd. Perkins didn't elicit much response from the crowd, other than when Tiger Mask IV decided to stiff the crap out of him for screwing up in their match, but maybe he will, like Hero & Castagnoli, after completing a dozen tours for the same company. That would require New Japan to bring him back in the future though.

 

[DMczaf]

WWEShop.com now has the anti-Cena shirt. Buy it now! Only real haters have the official shirt.

http://www.wweshop.com/item/anti-john-cena-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-15691

 

[RBH]

In-ring announcer Eden Stiles announced on her twitter that she is leaving the WWE.


"This was it! 3 weeks ago I asked to be released from my WWE contract. Today was my last day. Sure enjoyed it!! More on the horizon for me."

"And...now that I no longer work here I'm glad to finally not "hint" and say that I am 100% Cody's girl ."

 

[DMczaf]

After Alicia Fox, Kharma is next.

 

[bangai-o]

why did Kane rip Cena`s shirt off? what was the point of that?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

The show has been business as usual for the last 5 months, except for Daniel Bryan winning at TLC. Would you really kick youself for missing anything on Raw if you didn't watch the last 5 months? The last eventful thing with MITB and the few weeks of follow up afterwards. Before MITB there wasn't anything for the entire year before until the Nexus debuted. They've done away with the gritty, edgy, anything can happen approach on Raw. Just be happy both world champions are great in the ring and can put on amazing matches and the US champion is someone who, a year ago, was borderline fired and just waiting for that Friday voicemail informing him, before he decided to do something about it and get himself over. All I know is, for the first time since Money In The Bank, I am happy with what WWE delivered to me this week. I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the ride until WWE decides to mess it up.

I don't want to sound like I'm down on Punk, Bryan, and Ryder being champs, and I'm enjoying it as much as possible, but the company simply hasn't EARNED my trust to the point where I can be sit back and enjoy, or patiently wait for something to play out because most of the time it WON'T. It's the inevitable failure that keeps my critical fire burning.

You call Raw a Christmas gift, and while it was fun, a show like that should be a break from the norm. A one off contained in its own bubble. The fact is that 3 out of every 4 weeks are shows just like that one which don't build to anything, whether that means the PPV, or the very next week. UberTag hit it right on the head in saying that I'm not satisfied with those kinds of shows. The draw of an ongoing program is the overarching story and how events play off one another from week to week. Should I not expect at least THAT much from a program that labels itself as "Soap Opera Action?"

If I were to complain about lack of wrestling, people in this very thread would respond with "Don't watch the WWE for wrestling." Well now I'm looking for some substantial storyline advancement since the actual matches seem to mean nothing in the big picture, and people don't agree with me calling them filler either. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS, YOU CRAZY PEOPLE.

 

[Keyser Soze]

why did Kane rip Cena`s shirt off? what was the point of that?

Kane cannot Rise Above Hate. It could be symbolic, or he could burn it. Maybe use it to wipe cum stains of Katie Vick's stiff corpse. Wait until next week (maybe)

 

[BoboBrazil]

 

[G-Fex]

I hope they don't start disappearing like Marty's picture.

 

[Ithil]

 

[G-Fex]

No Kane stop stop! He's already Dead!

 

[FyreWulff]

Now if we could just get them to change the Diva and WWE belts..

 

[Parallax]

This pic is like a cruiserweight invasion pic "take away our belt? Then we'll take all yours!"

 

[miserable]

Now if we could just get them to change the Diva and WWE belts..

Didn't Punk say that he was gonna change the belt? Man, for all the truth-bombs he dropped, Punk sure has lied a lot.

 

[Mr. Sam]

This pic is like a cruiserweight invasion pic "take away our belt? Then we'll take all yours!"

Yeah, but Zack Ryder is deceptively tall. Deceptive.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

They need to do The Mid-Card Champ Life With Zack And Cody.

 

[sajj316]

Love the pic with the champions. Something really refreshing about it. I expect Cody to take on a Triple H like metamorphosis and become a heavyweight contender.

 

[Plywood]