Winter 2012 Anime Thread of Roundcats Up in This

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All this Steins;Gate talk reminds me of the terrible ending in Chaos;Head's A ending.

Rimi kills Taku because she wants Shogun to live, even though Shogun's lifespan was like 1 or 2 days left and Taku could live a normal lifespan. Oh, and Rimi is supposed to be in love with Taku while she makes this decision to kill him. Just wtf's all around.
 
LegatoB said:
Correct. That's the problem.
Mayuri being killed by SERN agents is one thing. All the ways Mayuri died OTHER than getting shot by agents? I don't see how Mayuri falling into the path of an oncoming train has anything to do with SERN's discovery of the gang's time machine experiments.
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Hm. I'll concede that one, they took that a bit too far. All the other ways do make sense though, but you are right the other ways are not right.
 
[Steins;Gate]
RurouniZel said:
That's just what each inevitability, or fate, is.
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Why are some thing fated and not others? Why are those "convergence points" there? We're told that the first Gulf War and the Y2K things are convergence points because "hey, that shit is important!" Even to our alien friends in Andromeda? Does the universe at large revolve around Earth politics?

One might also wonder how those "convergence points" work...
We're told that all Alpha world lines have (at least?) those two things in common: Mayuri dies and SERN establishes a dystopia. That's just how it goes in the Attractor Field Alpha. Okay. No, wait. How do the characters reach that conclusion? "It sure is hard to prevent Mayuri's death!" -> "Well, I guess that means that's her fate in all Alpha world lines!" Hmmm... Yeah? It also was quite hard for Okabe to get his hands on the IBN 5100 in a bunch of Alpha world lines, but he managed to get back to an Alpha world line where it was in the lab. Why couldn't it be something like that? Ah, well. Let's say.
But then, we're told that there are convergence points where... er... well, all those time lines would become entirely identical, or that wouldn't really be a "convergence", right? How would timelines where the circumstances of Mayuri's death were drastically different completely converge though? For example, does it completely stop "mattering" that Nae was traumatized at having pushed her under a train (as happened in that one Alpha world line but not so much in the others), once we reach the next "convergence point"? Does Ruka's gender stop mattering?


Steroyd said:
But the D-mail's didn't really change much outside of turning an apple into an orange, it's still a fruit or to mirror it better turned Rukaku from a guy to a girl, it's still the same Rukaku.
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Well, I guess Ruka's gender stopped mattering to you already! ^^
Not sure his/her future waifu/hasubando would agree though...


RurouniZel said:
I never implied the universe "cared" about certain events happening
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Oh, I'm not saying you did: Steins;Gate did. ^^

Er... being that he wouldn't be born, which would be pretty earth-shattering to Marty. ^^;
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If the time machine sent him to a second, separate timeline, preventing the birth of a Marty McFly in that second timeline wouldn't affect his own birth in the first timeline he comes from. So no problem there.
That's the point of parallel timelines in time travel stories: they prevent grandfather paradoxes. You don't want grandfather paradoxes in your story. ^^;

Again, you're applying a sort of malicious intent on "time" or whatever to kill her. It's not malicious, it's just inevitable because they altered time to prevent Kurisu's stabbing.
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I know that pulling a gun's trigger results in a bullet being expelled, but I don't know that preventing a scientist's stabbing results in a high school student's death two weeks later. Quite the odd leap, there.

RurouniZel said:
Chris is the one who figured out how it all worked, AND how to control it. Without her help, they NEVER would have gotten as far as they did and developed a full time machine, and thus, never would have been pursued by SERN.
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But Mayuri doesn't just die because of SERN. She's also pushed under a train by Nae, killed by a heart attack, ran over by a mysterious car, and a bunch of other scenarios the TV series didn't keep.
 
Instro said:
You don't know what my avatar is from? I thought you were a classic anime monocle!
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rU6iV.jpg


Get that treasure!
 
Fate/Zero 10

Well, that was a mistake. Direction is good, but why interrupt the thrust of the overall narrative with this side story about an irrelevant character?

icarus-daedelus said:
It sounds stupid? I mean, I guess it could always be stupider.
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It's not a fantastic title, but it doesn't sound stupid to me. With the implied "it" at the end, it's grammatically correct.
 
Instro said:
You don't know what my avatar is from? I thought you were a classic anime monocle!
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Oh, I wasn't referring to your avatar in particular just that, in general, characters from that era were more likely to sport sideburns.

Now, I haven't seen Treasure Island (the TV series) which is where I think he's from. Neither have I seen Animal Treasure Island. For this, and other offences, I am truly sorry.
 
Erigu said:
[Steins;Gate]
I know that pulling a gun's trigger results in a bullet being expelled, but I don't know that preventing a scientist's stabbing results in a high school student's death two weeks later. Quite the odd leap, there.
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Cause and effect was the whole point of episode nine, and Kurisu's explanation on the butterfly split. Conveniently, it isn't always obvious.
The first dmail itself didn't actually have any effect on Mayuri's death, it was no direct catalyst, but that dmail did move them from one predetermined 'rope' (I call back to suzuha's explanation) to another; from a rope where Kurisu was going to die regardless of what he did, to one where Mayuri did.And in that each subsequent dmail, not being enough to alter ropes, would only create butterfly splits, a million little immediately inconsequential, unknown, changes, Ruka, Akihabara, etc..
It plays on fate to a large degree, and is arbitrary in its event selection process, but the logic behind it was actually sound enough, aside from one blunder:
Kurusu's memory in the end

By the show's own logic
She should have no memory of Okabe aside from that particular day. If it were on the same line/rope, it be understandable, a bit, as she could pick up resonances from the other world lines, but there were no previous threads of them being together in the... beta line, I believe. They threw it out the window at the end for a happy ending, lol
 
hosannainexcelsis said:
It shows the styles of the two studios behind them distilled to perhaps their purest form: KyoAni's high-budget mastery of traditional animation vs. Shaft's low-budget exploration of visual eccentricity. Both are enjoyable in their own way.
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I think this is a good point to make: SHAFT may well be working with little to no budget/staff/time but they've at least developed some coping mechanisms to mask these obvious problems in their production. That isn't to say that 'wacky camera angles' magically solve all of their problems but it certainly helps mitigate the issue. At least there's some 'visual impact' from what's happening on screen.

Other shows which simply have cheap animation and no interesting or creative direction, such as Katanagtari are therefore less interesting to watch.
hosannainexcelsis said:
I don't see what's so horrible about that title. It's certainly not worse than any of the countless other Engrishy titles Japan has come up with.
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Well that seems to be a pretty low bar to pass.
 
Miri said:
By the show's own logic
She should have no memory of Okabe aside from that particular day. If it were on the same line/rope, it be understandable, a bit, as she could pick up resonances from the other world lines, but there were no previous threads of them being together in the... beta line, I believe. They threw it out the window at the end for a happy ending, lol
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Naw, the story's logic says that everyone has the Steiner ability and that they can remember memories from the other world lines, each person to a certain degree.

I'm more confused as to why there aren't two Okabe's after Okabe travels to the Steins;Gate world line.
 
[Steins;Gate]
LegatoB said:
Correct. That's the problem.
Mayuri being killed by SERN agents is one thing. All the ways Mayuri died OTHER than getting shot by agents? I don't see how Mayuri falling into the path of an oncoming train has anything to do with SERN's discovery of the gang's time machine experiments.
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It's not just that, presumably
Mayuri dies in hundreds of other unrelated ways, including being hit by cars and so forth. There's no reason why that should be.
 
Noirulus said:
Naw, the story's logic says that everyone has the Steiner ability and that they can remember memories from the other world lines, each person to a certain degree.

I'm more confused as to why there aren't two Okabe's after Okabe travels to the Steins;Gate world line.
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I didn't actually catch that explanation, lol, that makes sense then. As for Okabe
Only once did he actually travel time, that being with suzuha in her ship. He saw himself then. Everything else wasn't actually time travel as much as it was a 'reset' of perspective. That's one thing the show quickly lampshaded, we don't actually know what happens to the previous world lines when Okabe leaves them, as the show's only following his current 'spot;' The reading steiner, conveniently allowing him that control. Kurisu could have been walking in to the lab to find a brain dead Okabe each time he used the jump, lol. That line wouldn't matter anymore, in a sense
 
Cwarrior said:
Am convinced in the same way gamers go all fuckward when online, when an anime team is told there working on mecha there brain instantly turns to shit.
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Er, I'm not exactly sure what to say to that except that I (politely) disagree with your opinion. As I've stated above, mecha titles seem to be constructed much the same way as any other anime. Some are bad, some are good, most are average and a few will go down in history.
 
Jexhius said:
Oh, I wasn't referring to your avatar in particular just that, in general, characters from that era were more likely to sport sideburns.

Now, I haven't seen Treasure Isnalnd (the TV series) which is where I think he's from. Neither have I seen Animal Treasure Island. For this, and other offences, I am truly sorry.
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Ahh I misread your post then, indeed they don't make sideburns like they used too. You should watch Takarajima though. A true swashbuckling adventure!

...Although, now I'm wondering what an Isnalnd is. :P
 
icarus-daedelus said:
My problem with the wacky camera angles is that they're creative but unfocused. They're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks with no real rhyme or reason behind those choices much of the time. It's amusing the first time 'round, unilluminating the second, and often tiring. I have no strong feelings one way or another wrt SHAFTO, but I can see why they'd have haters.
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Well, sometimes this is true, but at other times there's clearly both rhyme and reason to all the choices on display, for example, in the first episode of Bakemonogatari. Of course, it's not consistent, because SHAFT.
 
Jexhius said:
Well that seems to be a pretty low bar to pass.
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Of course. Perhaps I've grown partially immune to Engrish after years of hearing titles such as "Bravely Default: Flying Fairy" thrown around.

icarus-daedelus said:
My problem with the wacky camera angles is that they're creative but unfocused. They're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks with no real rhyme or reason behind those choices much of the time. It's amusing the first time 'round, unilluminating the second, and often tiring. I have no strong feelings one way or another wrt SHAFTO, but I can see why they'd have haters.

It is preferable to putting in no effort at all, but ideally, creativity is focussed and harnessed by purpose & vision.
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This is true at times, but watching Bakemonogatari I would say more often than not there is some reason behind the camera angles and other visual tricks used, whether it be two characters' relationship to each other or a visualization of their inner selves. Sometimes it gets a bit much, and I can easily see why some people react violently against it, but most of the time I find it engaging.
 
Jexhius said:
I think this is a good point to make: SHAFT may well be working with little to no budget/staff/time but they've at least developed some coping mechanisms to mask these obvious problems in their production. That isn't to say that 'wacky camera angles' magically solve all of their problems but it certainly helps mitigate the issue. At least there's some 'visual impact' from what's happening on screen.

Other shows which simply have cheap animation and no interesting or creative direction, such as Katanagtari are therefore less interesting to watch.
Click to expand...


but what about those huge black border man what about them!!1!!

any anime studio >shaft

yes even Jc mediocre staff

Funky quick cuts of funky camera angles aren't the worst after the first ep there animation gets even worse some how.
 
Fate/Zero 11

Most of this episode is one extended dialogue, but instead of the explanations of the world's convoluted magic rules that we often get, we have a clash of philosophies between larger-than-life figures. It's visually subdued yet interestingly framed in a way the first episode wasn't, and the climax uses some nice tricks to create the impression of an overwhelming army while clearly not having the resources to be able to create a genuine depiction of one.

This episode also had maximum Rider time, which makes it the best episode by default.
 
 
Jexhius said:
Well, sometimes this is true, but at other times there's clearly both rhyme and reason to all the choices on display, for example, in the first episode of Bakemonogatari. Of course, it's not consistent, because SHAFT.
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I have no problems with Shaft's "style"; in fact, I actually really like Shinbo's older works. The big catch is that in Shaft anime smooth direction is limited to 2-3 episodes out of 13, with the remaining 10 having monkeys halfassedly trying, and failing, to mimick the style of the few talented guys in the staff.
 
Jexhius said:
It must be quite an interesting experience to watch one of the most lavishly animated TV series back to back with Bakemonogatari, which was clearly made on a shoe-string budget for most of it’s run.
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Yeah, it's pretty weird to consider that when you realize Bake looks the better of the two!
 
icarus-daedelus said:
Is that the one where Jexhius wrote a visual essay on the use of pantyshots in the first episode or something? Or am I imagining things again?
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That's the one.

It's Jexhius approved, it can't be that bad!
 
In the vein of my previous posts, I've uploaded a transcription of an interesting short paper from Ígor Dmítrievich Nóvikov, who postulated the 'self-consistency principle' that is proclaimed and defended by many time-travel apologists:

XX-I.NOVIKOV-NOTP&CWCI - Pastebin.com
http://pastebin.com/VZpiYrTu
 
jman2050 said:
I didn't say any of that specifically, I just said it looked better!
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Besides art and animation, the only other component of visuals is direction, and while that makes up a bit for the failings of the other two, it's not enough to match K-ON.

icarus-daedelus said:
I wasn't terribly enticed by the idea of heavy focus on pantyshots, even if allegedly in the service of metacommentary on pantyshots & the state of the world today.

Then Reg said he hated it recently.

Also, I've no idea what it's about.
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Bakemonogatari is 1 part commentary on the nature of fetishes and fanservice, and 1 part archetypal Key Visual Arts narrative (guy meets a bunch of girls and solves their supernatural problems).
 
Itsa harem (with some supernatural elements to tie the 'narrative' - that is, the steady accumulation of waifus - together).
 
Supernatural flavoring aside, Bake deals with some pretty common teenager problems. Repression, estrangement, jealousy, bullying and stress.

It s not blatant emotional manipulation like KEY stuff usually is.
 
jman2050 said:
Except with neither the uguu nor the blatant exploitative tragedy porn.
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You know, jman, your Key hate is such an enigma to me. Who forever jaded you to tragedy porn? Was it having your high hopes dashed back in High School when Romeo and Juliet didn't live up to your standards? Did you have a childhood friend that went into a coma after an accident and actually died? Maybe it was Key itself, were you, by chance, a Makoto fan?
 
hosannainexcelsis said:
Besides art and animation, the only other component of visuals is direction, and while that makes up a bit for the failings of the other two, it's not enough to match K-ON.
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Fine, trollish posturing aside, the fact that K-On's art and animation were excellent-composed and made good usage of KyoAni's time and money didn't change the fact that I found it downright boring. Even ignoring the subjective nature of the character designs, the whole visual style in general just felt really safe, sterile, and unmemorable. Like they took Haruhi (which itself is pretty boring visually a lot of the time) and slapped a few more coats of sheen and gloss on it.

For as much trolling as I give Nichijou, it was both excellently-animated AND visually interesting, which is why I think it's KyoAni's best-looking show so far, and it isn't even close.

Mind you that Bakemonogatari certainly has its own well-documented failures in its visuals, but at least that visual style left some sort of impression on me.

doomed1 said:
You know, jman, your Key hate is such an enigma to me. Who forever jaded you to tragedy porn? Was it having your high hopes dashed back in High School when Romeo and Juliet didn't live up to your standards? Did you have a childhood friend that went into a coma after an accident and actually died? Maybe it was Key itself, were you, by chance, a Makoto fan?
Click to expand...

Frankly even when I first read Romeo and Juliet(for real) way back in school I thought it worked better as satire than as a straight tragedy, because when played straight the story is downright silly.
 
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