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[Durante]

How is 2gb bad?

Well, first of all it falls greatly behind the expectations set at every previous console generational switch (~10x increase), despite this being the longest generation yet. But more importantly it will probably mean that we won't get levitation and seamless cities back in TES VI, and that real interactivity in large open world games will still require heavy compromises.

And saying people that want more than such a tiny incremental upgrade -- especially considering that these will be the platforms limiting game development for another 6 years -- have no understanding of the technology is a petty generalization.

So how many times stronger than the Wii U will this system be? 4? 8? 16?

In what? CPU flops? GPU flops? Memoy bandwidth? Overall, I'd hope for 6 times or so, since -- assuming the Wii U spec rumors are accurate -- that would put it around a traditional generation ahead of 360.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Will there be sweating?

There was sweating in the 5 minutes Ballmer was onstage at the AT&T conference a bit ago, so looks like he's in peak form.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Well, first of all it falls greatly behind the expectations set at every previous console generational switch (~10x increase), despite this being the longest generation yet. But more importantly it will probably mean that we won't get levitation and seamless cities back in TES VI, and that real interactivity in large open world games will still require heavy compromises.

And saying people that want more than such a tiny incremental upgrade -- especially considering that these will be the platforms limiting game development for another 6 years -- have no understanding of the technology is a petty generalization.

Yea but things aren't the same as back then. The measurements on the power of machines today is very different. Even on PC many don't use more than 2 gb of ram. 360 does so much with 512 alone.

 

[Durante]

Yea but things aren't the same as back then. The measurements on the power of machines today is very different. Even on PC many don't use more than 2 gb of ram. 360 does so much with 512 alone.

I have 12 GB of RAM in my PC and am thinking about upgrading because it sometimes runs out. But that's besides the point, what we really need to discuss is how much memory next-gen games will need. And for that, we don't have any good data, since the main "AAA" target platforms are limited to 512 MB. Even with that development limitation Battlefied 3 on Ultra uses over 3 GB on GPU and CPU combined -- and that's with assets still designed with current-gen consoles in mind.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well, first of all it falls greatly behind the expectations set at every previous console generational switch (~10x increase), despite this being the longest generation yet. But more importantly it will probably mean that we won't get levitation and seamless cities back in TES VI, and that real interactivity in large open world games will still require heavy compromises.

And saying people that want more than such a tiny incremental upgrade -- especially considering that these will be the platforms limiting game development for another 6 years -- have no understanding of the technology is a petty generalization.

You should probably kick tech companies for not advancing as quickly as they should. You could get 4 gigs or more if you're using fairly crappy RAM. As it stands today we are limited by that tech on faster forms of RAM. So you either get a smaller but very quick pool of memory, wait for a die shrink, or go with really shitty and slow RAM but lots of it.

2 gigs of DDR5 is going to net you more bandwidth than some of these other solutions, and it's a unified memory pool. If they really think 2 gigs isn't enough they could have fairly slow main ram, with a very fast pool for the GPU.

Of course they could always use more, but that doesn't mean they are going to get it, nor does it mean it will hinder game development. As limited as the 360 and PS3 are, we've seen metric leaps and bounds taken in realtime rendering this past generation. They haven't exactly hindered technological advancement. Delayed it at best.

It will be the same scenario next gen. 3 gigs or less. Every console usurped in pure brute force by PC tech within a year of launch. There were better CPU's out when the 360 launched, better GPU's when the PS3 did, and more RAM than both in modern comps of their time.

 

[Bgamer90]

GDDR5 or not, only 2GB of main RAM in the next Xbox is utterly pathetic and I hope they reconsider if that is truly what they're doing.

lol... really?

 

[Arkham]

What do we call this circus this year? Or is it still carnival of stupid?

CIRCUSOCALYPSE!

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Normally a leak by now.

 

[BurntPork]

I have 12 GB of RAM in my PC and am thinking about upgrading because it sometimes runs out. But that's besides the point, what we really need to discuss is how much memory next-gen games will need. And for that, we don't have any good data, since the main "AAA" target platforms are limited to 512 MB. Even with that development limitation Battlefied 3 on Ultra uses over 3 GB on GPU and CPU combined -- and that's with assets still designed with current-gen consoles in mind.

Good point. Clearly, 8GB is minimum! After all, there aren't any differences between closed and open systems, are there?

 

[derFeef]

I have 12 GB of RAM in my PC and am thinking about upgrading because it sometimes runs out. But that's besides the point, what we really need to discuss is how much memory next-gen games will need. And for that, we don't have any good data, since the main "AAA" target platforms are limited to 512 MB. Even with that development limitation Battlefied 3 on Ultra uses over 3 GB on GPU and CPU combined -- and that's with assets still designed with current-gen consoles in mind.

Jesus christ what are you doing. I am still sporting 4GB and I am totally fine.

 

[enzo_gt]

Normally a leak by now.

Did the 360 leak at all?

I mean like a full PR leak. For some reason I don't remember so.

 

[Durante]

You should probably kick tech companies for not advancing as quickly as they should. You could get 4 gigs or more if you're using fairly crappy RAM. As it stands today we are limited by that tech on faster forms of RAM. So you either get a smaller but very quick pool of memory, wait for a die shrink, or go with really shitty and slow RAM but lots of it.

On a console you aren't quite limited to basic PC tech. Get a large unified pool of quad-channel DDR3 (which is already quite fast). Alleviate the main source of GPU memory traffic (framebuffer/z-buffer transfers) by including enough eDRAM on it to allow 1080p rendering with 4xMSAA. Add scratchpad memories to the CPU cores and let programmers (and compilers) optimize memory traffic -- SPE programming knowledge will be useful there and sooner or later everyone will have to get used to not having automatic caching.

It will be the same scenario next gen. 3 gigs or less. Every console usurped in pure brute force by PC tech within a year of launch. There were better CPU's out when the 360 launched, better GPU's when the PS3 did, and more RAM than both in modern comps of their time.

The way I see it currently none of the upcoming consoles will even get close in performance to a high-end PC built 6 months before its release, never mind a year later! And that's just sad.

Good point. Clearly, 8GB is minimum! After all, there aren't any differences between closed and open systems, are there?

Oh please. Since you seem very well versed in the subject, go ahead and do explain how a closed system requires less memory space for assets. My ad-hoc comparison looked only at the memory usage of the game itself, not any other processes that may be running on the system.

Jesus christ what are you doing. I am still sporting 4GB and I am totally fine.

Mostly compiling (can take up to 9 GB), but I also dislike closing any productivity application or web browsing session that I still need.

 

[MDX]

So how many times stronger than the Wii U will this system be? 4? 8? 16?

It wont be

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Normally a leak by now.

Yeah. I was expecting this rumor to be true, but the lack of a good leak today has me starting to doubt. Maybe it will just be a really tiny video tease with the real reveal to follow on MTV somewhere down the line.

 

[Phonomezer]

Can't shake the hype

 

[gofreak]

Did the 360 leak at all?

I mean like a full PR leak. For some reason I don't remember so.

I remember them doing a viral campaign leading up to it, a ARG, and I think we got a little out of that. Maybe a Kameo screenshot, some of the branding cues etc? Can't remember if there was a proper leak or not, though.

 

[DopeyFish]

Did the 360 leak at all?

I mean like a full PR leak. For some reason I don't remember so.

spec sheets (with 256 MB ram)

picture of an early prototype (which was chrome and with the handles) which everyone claimed as fake but then during a making-of video someone spotted it hanging around the offices basically confirming it was true

that's about all the true 360 leaks afaik

and there was the colony ARG which revealed the 360 before the MTV event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB5AugdCl4M

 

[Extra Sauce]

2GB DDR3 is shit. Disappointing :/

No it's not.

The 360 can pull off graphics that a PC with 512MB would never in a million years be able to pull off. And the 360 has 512MB.

Can you dig it?

 

[gofreak]

Oooh yeah, I remember the spec leak now. Good times.

 

[brotkasten]

Normally a leak by now.

I wanted to post some old "leak" photos to screw with you guys, but that would probably get me banned.

 

[derFeef]

Mostly compiling (can take up to 9 GB), but I also dislike closing any productivity application or web browsing session that I still need.

Aha, so you really don't need it for gaming, then.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Here is an interesting article from 2004 and i think it can confirm that the release wont be this year.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/26/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/

"That's a short time frame, which might raise some questions about why the subject of Xbox 2 is being so studiously avoided. The answer's simple. Xbox has momentum right now – and its holiday line-up of games (led by titles such as "Halo 2") is strong. Talking about Xbox 2 would distract consumers, which could significantly cut into sales across the board.:

Same situation with Halo 4 this fall. I'm afraid the reveal could be next year along with the release unless this time they want to reveal it more in advanced maybe with less information.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

No it's not.

The 360 can pull off graphics that a PC with 512MB would never in a million years be able to pull off. And the 360 has 512MB.

Can you dig it?

It will be 5 years from now...and that'll likely be half way through the next gen.

furthermore: is RAM not one of the biggest bottlenecks with current gen machines? How will this be different in the future if we keep it "good enough for now"? So RAM isn't as cheap on consoles as it is on pc's; I'd happily pay 100 more dollars (500 instead of 400 for the nextbox?) for graphics that stay current for 2 more years.

 

[Phonomezer]

No it's not.

The 360 can pull off graphics that a PC with 512MB would never in a million years be able to pull off. And the 360 has 512MB.

Can you dig it?

People just want big numbers and components with superfluous names like Emotion Engine.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Here is an interesting article from 2004 and i think it can confirm that the release wont be this year.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/26/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/

"That's a short time frame, which might raise some questions about why the subject of Xbox 2 is being so studiously avoided. The answer's simple. Xbox has momentum right now – and its holiday line-up of games (led by titles such as "Halo 2") is strong. Talking about Xbox 2 would distract consumers, which could significantly cut into sales across the board.:

Same situation with Halo 4 this fall. Fall 2013 release confirmed,maybe even spring?

H4LO will be Twilight Princessed.

 

[Doffen]

Did the 360 leak at all?

I mean like a full PR leak. For some reason I don't remember so.

There were a few spy shots.

 

[Syphon Filter]

H4LO will be Twilight Princessed.

That would be horrible.

 

[DopeyFish]

There were a few spy shots.

That was from the MTV event

 

[Phonomezer]

That would be horrible.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather play Halo 4 on better hardware.

 

[Durante]

Aha, so you really don't need it for gaming, then.

Yes. That's why I followed it up with "But that's besides the point". I do wonder though how much it it I could use for gaming if PCs were the main development target instead of consoles.

People just want big numbers and components with superfluous names like Emotion Engine.

Or maybe we just want "AAA" games that aren't simply corridor shooters with prettier corridors.

The thing is, for stupid market reasons a 4x or so increase in RAM will be used up by an equal increase in asset fidelity just to stay "up to date" in terms of graphics. But I want more interactivity, variety and open gameplay on top of that.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather play Halo 4 on better hardware.

Yea but early launch titles never look that much better. I rather have it 2 years in like Halo 3.

 

[Doffen]

That was from the MTV event

Wrong. That picture leaked May 7, 2005. The MTV event was held May 12, 2005.

 

[StevieP]

That would be horrible.

Yeah, it would be horrible to be able to play Halo 4 at 720p.

 

[bgassassin]

There was sweating in the 5 minutes Ballmer was onstage at the AT&T conference a bit ago, so looks like he's in peak form.

My body towel is ready.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather play Halo 4 on better hardware.

You're crazy. I know you want to play it with worse textures. Don't try to convince me otherwise.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Same situation with Halo 4 this fall. I'm afraid the reveal could be next year along with the release unless this time they want to reveal it more in advanced maybe with less information.

We won't get a full reveal this year, but we will get a confirmation of its existence and some "next generation" tech demos. It has to happen because of Wii U, but I doubt we'll get anything but possible hints today.

H4LO will be Twilight Princessed.

I'm pretty certain it won't, and Ryse won't be on the next Xbox either. It might get Sigmad, though (not on PlayStation, obviously).

 

[brotkasten]

You'll see something like this today.

I hope that's okay with you PC guys.

 

[Arnie]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather play Halo 4 on better hardware.

With improved social features.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

and there was the colony ARG which revealed the 360 before the MTV event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB5AugdCl4M

Yup, the 'OurColony' ARG started in March 2005, the MTV unveiling was in May 2005, and the 360 was released in holiday 2005. Not much time between those events!

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Yeah, it would be horrible to be able to play Halo 4 at 720p.

It would be horrible to have the halo 4 user-base split in two, it would be horrible to have more or less features on one or the other system. There are a lot of horrible things about it.

 

[Manp]

You'll see something like this today.

http://i.imgur.com/UPrgj.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2jsVK.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4D36a.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4HSOk.jpg[IMG]

I hope that's okay with you PC guys.[/QUOTE]

the hell is that? 8|

:)

 

[Syphon Filter]

Yeah, it would be horrible to be able to play Halo 4 at 720p.

Not worth it since it's still an xbox 360 game. Also Microsoft would want to save a Halo game for later on since it will move consoles. Initially consoles will sell regardless to early adopters.

 

[S1kkZ]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather play Halo 4 on better hardware.

same. halo 4 on 360 is a waste.

 

[wwm0nkey]

the hell is that? 8|

Xbox Live on Windows 8

 

[Arnie]

I'm going to get hyped anyway. It's what I do best.

Xbox 3 here we come.

It's in 5 and a bit hours yea?

 

[Freki]

Xbox Live on Windows 8

I'll be polite and just say that they can keep it...

 

[Syphon Filter]

same. halo 4 on 360 is a waste.

No it's not. God forbid Microsoft supports their system for a long time. A Halo 4 already on launch won't be that impressive too.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

same. halo 4 on 360 is a waste.

I'd say it should be on the nextbox ONLY if they can run it at 60fps

 

[bigtroyjon]

Nextbox isn't coming out in 2012, so no need to tard up this thread's last hours with Halo 4 on the new Xbox talk.

 

[[Nintex]]

If Halo 4 is 360 only...

Halo 4 - September 2012(like I dunno pretty much all the other Halo's)
Xbox 720 - November 2012(with PGR5 and another shooter)

I don't see how the release of Halo 4 makes the release of the Xbox 720 impossible. I mean, after ODST, Reach and Halo CEA(which was somewhat of a bomb anyway) I think every Halo fan has a 360 already.

Nextbox isn't coming out in 2012, so no need to tard up this thread's last hours with Halo 4 on the new Xbox talk.

MCV, Edge and other UK media ran with the rumors. MS has a lot of first party development in the UK.

 

[Manp]

Xbox Live on Windows 8

next you're going to tell me that this stuff is in the preview version and i never noticed