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US PoliGAF 2012 | The Romney VeepStakes: Waiting for Chris Christie to Sing…

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No sarcasm: what about the idea of a Gingrich presidency is appealing to you?

I appreciate the lack of sarcasm. I really do. Some people on PoliGAF are just so nasty.


I don't support all of his views, but I like him maybe slightly more than I do Obama. Plus he has some great ideas.

Some things that come to mind are Prison Reform, the Space Program, and some more things.

His views on the environment are really cool. Providing incentives companies to go green, making sure new policies aren't as bad for the environment.

His economic ideas could be worse I guess.

I'd be pretty torn between voting for Obama or Newt. I also get this vibe from Huntsman and Newt thats just... they seem more real than the other candidates.


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Soooooooo I know that everyone thinks Romney is going to get the nomination and all. However if he doesn't, the title of this thread is going to be so hilarious. XD
 
What happened is he took the high road, then realized that the majority of voters are sheep, and had to come back down.

I give him credit for the attempt.

You give him credit for trying to tweak his message to convince seemingly gullible people that he is above the fray when in reality he slings more shit than anyone else in the race?

You are everything that is wrong with politics. You should never take anything that a human turd says at face value.
 
Remember how everyone were saying Newt was combustible and undisciplined? This is exactly what they were talking about. He didn't change a bit. He decided to take down Romney and he won't back down until he's down to pennies.
 
Bain may or may not have played a large role in helping those companies expand. It's hard for anyone to say unless we see the figures and know the context, the circumstances of those investments and Bain's post-financing involvement.

So what you're saying is Romney's claims of job creation at Bain, thus far, are unsubstantiated, and worse, unsupportable?
 
Newt with new ad shredding Romney.


Stay with it until the end.
If you like that, you'll love: Now That's What I Call Debating, Volume II! In stores now!

So can I assume based on quotes I've read, the idea that Obama wants class warfare is basically just a made-up right talking point?
What else could it conceivably be? I defy you to generate a coherent definition of class warfare.

I appreciate the lack of sarcasm. I really do. Some people on PoliGAF are just so nasty.


I don't support all of his views, but I like him maybe slightly more than I do Obama. Plus he has some great ideas.

Some things that come to mind are Prison Reform, the Space Program, and some more things.

His views on the environment are really cool. Providing incentives companies to go green, making sure new policies aren't as bad for the environment.

His economic ideas could be worse I guess.

I'd be pretty torn between voting for Obama or Newt. I also get this vibe from Huntsman and Newt thats just... they seem more real than the other candidates.


_____________________________________

Soooooooo I know that everyone thinks Romney is going to get the nomination and all. However if he doesn't, the title of this thread is going to be so hilarious. XD
I'm fully prepared to eat crow if someone other than Romney takes the nomination. But I'm not too worried.

With respect to Gingrich, you're saying you find him personally likable? I'm not familiar with his prison reform platform, but I can say fairly confidently that the only intellectually honest thing I've heard about prison in the Republican debate has come from Ron Paul, so you'll have to expand on that. Companies have plenty of incentives to go green already, but do you think that's something that anyone would oppose? It seems like your support for Gingrich is driven largely by personality. Have I read that wrong?

This is the most absurd but beautiful case of ideology kamikaze I've ever witnessed.
"Mitt Romney says ridiculous things on stage. GINGRICH 2012."
 
Remember how everyone were saying Newt was combustible and undisciplined? This is exactly what they were talking about. He didn't change a bit. He decided to take down Romney and he won't back down until he's down to pennies.



Well, he also knows that the SC electorate responds to negative ads. This shit wouldn't fly in NH.
 
Remember how everyone were saying Newt was combustible and undisciplined? This is exactly what they were talking about. He didn't change a bit. He decided to take down Romney and he won't back down until he's down to pennies.
That seems to be the case. Romney's super PAC shredded him in Iowa, and he's out for revenge, damn it all.

Well, he also knows that the SC electorate responds to negative ads. This shit wouldn't fly in NH.

My understanding is Newt's super PAC took aim at SC and largely bypassed NH, indicating they probably agreed with you. That, and it was too late by the time they got that $5 injection.

SC is more likely to be receptive to anti-Romney messaging anyways.

###

Romeny's 'envy' quip is going to come back to bite him, hard.
 
You give him credit for trying to tweak his message to convince seemingly gullible people that he is above the fray when in reality he slings more shit than anyone else in the race?

You are everything that is wrong with politics. You should never take anything that a human turd says at face value.

No, there is nothing wrong with me, I'm being a realist.

Could Newt have stayed on the "High Road" for the remainder of his campaign? Certainly. Would he ever win like that? No.

Its a sad reality, but you won't ever get to be president by never doing negative campaign ads because that's what people respond to now. Furthermore your opponent will start launching negative ads, and you won't possibly be able to defend your self.

Also, Ive seen a lot of anti Romney ads that come from Newt, the funny thing is almost all of them seem to be true, mostly true things about Mitt Romney. Now mudslinging ads where they take numerous things out of context, and flat out lie about the other candidate are different.

A candidate has every right to say "this is why I'm good" and "These are negatives of this person".

I wish things were not like that, but that is reality.
 
What happened is he took the high road, then realized that the majority of voters are sheep, and had to come back down.

I give him credit for the attempt.

No, he was being the same fake asshole he's always been. Gingrich practically invented the abrasive style of politics we're all too familiar with today. Anyone aware of his history knows he was just being full of shit the whole time.
 
A Rass poll is the starting point for Dem enthusiasm since we know they lean heavily to the right.
This is true. Rass is a shit pollster who skews their samples to get pro-GOP results - so if even they show Obama with a small, but decent lead over Romney (when their last polls had them tied and Obama down by 6) that is good news.

ed: Christ. I'm kind of assuming Newt is looking to sabotage Romney in the general election and doesn't give a shit about winning the primary. This is the kind of thing you'd want to do early on in the primary, not now when his nomination is seemingly all but guaranteed.

I also think if Gingrich actually managed to win the primary (highly doubtful) this could actually position him stronger against Obama than Romney, because he at least knows that playing up the populist, Occupy-esque message will help him with disillusioned voters. Romney thinks going around saying he likes firing people and that corporations are people will get him in with the middle class.
 
No, he was being the same fake asshole he's always been. Gingrich practically invented the abrasive style of politics we're all too familiar with today. Anyone aware of his history knows he was just being full of shit the whole time.

There is no other way I can put it, I think you are flat out wrong.

I think Newt gave being positive the good old college try, and I think he realized that if he wants to win, he couldn't continue with it. Sad really.
 
'Tea and Occupy' -- a discussion/debate between members of the two movements
The Tea Party and Occupy movements have each generated considerable attention and helped shape the conversation heading into the 2012 presidential election. But seldom have the two sides engaged in a dialogue.
NBCPolitics.com aims to change that on Wednesday with a Web-only discussion between six members of the two movements – three Occupy protesters and three members of Tea Party affiliated groups. And we'd like you to participate.
The one-hour event, which will be live streamed on Wednesday from 4-5 p.m. ET, will be moderated by MSNBC TV’s Richard Lui. See below for an introduction to our panelists, all of whom are activists we’ve encountered in the course of reporting on the two movements.

Among other things, we’ll ask them about the issues most important to them, similarities and differences between the two movements and the impact they feel they are having on the political process.
Related story: Occupy 2012: Firmly disorganized, driven by dreams
We’d also like to involve you in the discussion and invite you to submit questions for our panelists in the comments area below, on Facebook, Twitter or Google Plus.
Then check back on Wednesday at 4 p.m. ET to watch the event live, or look for it after the fact on msnbc.com.
Here are our panelists, who will be participating from various locations via webcams:

120110-tea-occupy-new-1245p.photoblog600.jpg


From left to right, Sergio Ballesteros, Tim Weldon and Elli Whiteway.
‘Occupy’
Sergio Ballesteros, 30, from Los Angeles area. A high school teacher for four years, he is now pursuing his master’s degree in urban teaching at UCLA and working occasionally as a substitute teacher. He camped outside City Hall for about six weeks at the Occupy Los Angeles encampment and was among those arrested when police cleared the site on Nov. 30.
Tim Weldon, 35, of Poughquag, N.Y., left his part-time job helping the disabled to find work to take up “occupation” He helped kick start the working group think tank at OWS. He has a master’s degree and used to work in post-conflict reconstruction and development in Iraq, Afghanistan and Sierra Leone. He came home two years ago to find a job but could only find the part-time one.
Elli Whiteway, 21, a senior Christian ethics major at Belmont University in Nashville, Tenn., who is involved in the Occupy Nashville protest. Her interest in community, dialogue, ethics and social justice motivated her to seek out and support the local movement. Her parents are Tea Party supporters.

111214-OCCUPY-tea-220p.photoblog600.jpg


From left to right, Monica Boyer, Chuck McNab and Sharon Snyder
Tea Party
Monica Boyer, 36 of Warsaw, Ind., works as a college secretary. Boyer founded a Tea Party-affiliated group named for her county, Kosciusko Silent No More, which has about 200 regular members. She also co-founded Hoosiers for a Conservative Senate, aimed at defeating longtime Republican U.S. Sen. Richard Lugar in the primaries next spring.
Chuck MacNab, 79, a retired airline captain from O’Fallon, Mo. He is a founder of K & N Patriots--named for the high traffic intersection of state supplemental roads K and N, where the group holds a rally and meeting every two weeks at a corner gas station. His main concern is that we have gone too far in the direction of big government, and have too many constraints on freedom.
Sharon Snyder, 74, of Madison Heights, Mich., is a member of MODESCO and the Troy Area Tea Party Michigan, a Christian Tea Party affiliated group. She says she got involved in the movement on Income Tax Day in 2009 and ended up helping to organize a bus trip to Washington, D.C., for a Tea Party event.

Woops, already over. Sorry
 
Someone start a thread about the envy quip. It's always interesting to get responses from Bootstraps-GAF, and those guys don't post in here for the most part.
 
There is no other way I can put it, I think you are flat out wrong.

I think Newt gave being positive the good old college try, and I think he realized that if he wants to win, he couldn't continue with it. Sad really.

Uh, no. Newt stayed above the fray because his campaign never had enough money to run attack ads, and until he became the darling of capricious movement conservatives he was only interested in using this platform for selling his books.
 
So what you're saying is Romney's claims of job creation at Bain, thus far, are unsubstantiated, and worse, unsupportable?

I wouldn't say it's unsupportable because we do know that Bain has worked with companies which ultimately grew and prospered. Some of these companies were struggling, some required seed investments and others just needed money to expand their scope. I think the most contended part is of the companies for which Bain acted only as a seed investor. It's like asking how much credit Mike Markkula can take for where Apple is today because of his initial investments - such a question orbits hypotheticals.

The important question shouldn't be about whether his claims are substantiated, but how you apportion credit to investments and when you draw the line.
 
I didn't catch who, but someone on NPR last night said that in the battle between Romney's history with Bain and Obama's presidential record, that Romney would win. I couldn't stop laughing my ass off.
 
So can I assume based on quotes I've read, the idea that Obama wants class warfare is basically just a made-up right talking point?

I don't think it is an issue of wanting or not wanting class warfare. What people don't understand, and what isn't taught to most of them is that there is always and will likely always be class warfare. It's at the very core of all societies. Different socio-economic political ideologies were formed on what is the best method of balancing the strife between the different classes, and they continue to change due to the tension between the classes. Democracies and Republics were both created to deal with the inequities between the ruling and the ruled, and methods of making them more and less balanced have been continually refined over the generations. Right now were are and have been in a period where the rulers have gained a great deal of control over the system, and so the ruled are starting to fight back. That's all that's going on.

Just because we are in a democratic republic does not make us exempt of having classes - the idea that we are in a classless society is about as laughable as saying since the USSR was a Communistic country everyone was equal.
 
I didn't catch who, but someone on NPR last night said that in the battle between Romney's history with Bain and Obama's presidential record, that Romney would win. I couldn't stop laughing my ass off.

Were you watching mclaughlin group? There are couple of screwballs there. Other than that, could be David Brooks.
 
Huntsman supports Paul Ryan's shitshow of a budget plan. That alone should make any notion of him as a 'moderate' go right out the damn window.

Exactly.

I loved when Bill Maher said that Hunstman could suck his cock on one of his final shows of the fall.

Hunstman is no moderate.
 
Newt has always been a vindictive, vicious fraud and this is just another chapter in that book. He styles himself as the second most important political figure in modern US history (behind Reagan) yet couldn't muster a real presidential campaign because people can't stand him. And when victory seemed within reach he was destroyed by The Great Pretender, a Mormon moderate people can't stand either.

He's going to go damn in smoke hoping to take Romney with him. I remember reading that mass of Christian activists want to pressure people to leave the race after SC, allowing Santorum to be crowned the conservative alternative....but I don't believe Gingrich will leave. Even if his campaign becomes a Cain-esque joke of flying from debates to book signings, I can see him staying in.
 
Conflict between rich, poor strongest in 24 years
As politics heat up, wealth gap creating more conflict than issues of immigration, race, age

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tensions between the rich and poor are increasing and at their most intense level in nearly a quarter-century, a new survey shows. Americans now see more social conflict over wealth inequality than over the hot-button topics of immigration, race relations and age.
The survey released Wednesday by the Pew Research Center highlights U.S. perceptions of the economic divide, an issue that has moved to the forefront in the 2012 presidential campaign amid stubbornly high unemployment, increasing poverty and protests by the Occupy movement.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/conflict-between-rich-poor-strongest-191040045.html

What a great year to run a private equity zillionaire as your candidate!
 
Exactly.

I loved when Bill Maher said that Hunstman could suck his cock on one of his final shows of the fall.

Hunstman is no moderate.


Loathe Bill Maher. Despicable human being. Point remains, Huntsman is only considered a moderate because nobody scrutinizes his plans and positions.
 
Another gross, hacky campaign stunt by the President today.

Obama's communications staff launched an exanded push to get journalists there today, particularly from regional press outlets, and — like Obama's shoutouts to companies today — the effort appeared to target swing-state media. On hand were reporters from North Carolina, South Carolina and Michigan, among others.

The president even addressed them at the end of his speech, urging them to speak with executives who were there and had good things to say about in-sourcing.


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PD said:
He styles himself as the second most important political figure in modern US history (behind Reagan)


I think there is a compelling argument to be made that he is. You can directly tie his rise/ascent with that of the Southern wing of the Republican party. His entire tone, negotiating ploys and rhetoric can be seen in today's leaders.
 
Newt has always been a vindictive, vicious fraud and this is just another chapter in that book. He styles himself as the second most important political figure in modern US history (behind Reagan) yet couldn't muster a real presidential campaign because people can't stand him. And when victory seemed within reach he was destroyed by The Great Pretender, a Mormon moderate people can't stand either.

He's going to go damn in smoke hoping to take Romney with him. I remember reading that mass of Christian activists want to pressure people to leave the race after SC, allowing Santorum to be crowned the conservative alternative....but I don't believe Gingrich will leave. Even if his campaign becomes a Cain-esque joke of flying from debates to book signings, I can see him staying in.

He will drop out when funding drops out. He just got beat out by two mormons and a pseudo-libertarian. I can't imagine his funding will stay on after SC unless he beats Romney.
 
I'd be pretty torn between voting for Obama or Newt. I also get this vibe from Huntsman and Newt thats just... they seem more real than the other candidates.
I am astonished anyone would describe Newt Gingrich as real. He's at least as phony as Romney. He has no compunction about taking a position only to contradict himself the next day.
You're right that Bush probably would have gotten destroyed post-Katrina. But the 2004 election was a referendum on Bush, and it's fair to say the "no" votes were very enthusiastic votes. (I should know, I was one of them.) But there really just weren't enough of them, because there was nothing galvanizing about Kerry.

And I suppose it's subjective, but as "passionate" as the anti-Obama contingent is, I don't think it's a patch on the outrage at Bush, even in 2004. Which still wasn't enough to push him out of office without an inspiring candidate to rally around.
The notion that Kerry lost because he was boring and dull is a bit spurious. I do not doubt the no votes were enthusiastic. Nevertheless, Kerry lost primarily because the fundamentals favored Bush. Considering economic growth and other factors, most forecasting models pegged Bush as a moderate favorite. And he largely conformed to his predicted vote share. Could a more exhilarating candidate have defeated Bush? It is possible, although I doubt they would have appreciably improved the outcome.
 
I am astonished anyone would describe Newt Gingrich as real. He's at least as phony as Romney. He has no compunction about taking a position only to contradict himself the next day.The notion that Kerry lost because he was boring and dull is a bit spurious. I do not doubt the no votes were enthusiastic. Nevertheless, Kerry lost primarily because the fundamentals favored Bush. Considering economic growth and other factors, most forecasting models pegged Bush as a moderate favorite. And he largely conformed to his predicted vote share. Could a more exhilarating candidate have defeated Bush? It is possible, although I doubt they would have appreciably improved the outcome.

The world was definitely not ripe for an Obama-style candidate, that's for sure. The fact remains that Kerry was boring. He couldn't incite young people to vote for him. I used to run Music for America voter registration booths at concerts and the stickers said, Kerry vs Bush is this the best we could do? When a lefty organization calling out for the young vote despises a candidate, you know thats a pretty crappy sign.
 
I wouldn't say it's unsupportable because we do know that Bain has worked with companies which ultimately grew and prospered. Some of these companies were struggling, some required seed investments and others just needed money to expand their scope. I think the most contended part is of the companies for which Bain acted only as a seed investor. It's like asking how much credit Mike Markkula can take for where Apple is today because of his initial investments - such a question orbits hypotheticals.

The important question shouldn't be about whether his claims are substantiated, but how you apportion credit to investments and when you draw the line.

I think you're threading a fine needle here. Nobody can concretely back up Romney's claim of a "hundred thousand new jobs" from his investments over at Bain capital. More importantly, he conflicts with a campaign spokesman over whether that includes layoffs or not. Attributing any job creation after Romney left Bain is also quite ridiculous.
 
Loathe Bill Maher. Despicable human being. Point remains, Huntsman is only considered a moderate because nobody scrutinizes his plans and positions.

I'm not a huge fan of Maher either, but he definitely called that one right. The fact that he was speaking to the supremely ignorant Andrew Sullivan at the time made it that much more hilarious.
 
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