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[Measley]

American Indians, the Irish and the Poles were often referred to as lazy back in the day. It's a pretty common smear. I don't think any race/nationality 'owns' the word as a pejorative.

Yeah, but blacks were stereotyped as lazy after the Civil Rights Act. They went from being considered dumb idiots to lazy welfare recipients. A meme pushed by numerous conservative politicians in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Thus its no surprise that conservative politicians like Gingrich and Santorum utilize the tactic in a place like South Carolina or Iowa.

 

[The Librarian]

Has anybody realized that Perry is going to do today what Erick Erickson was hoping he would do?

Look at how much influence he has!

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/160020001569505281/photo/1

 

[kkaabboomm]

Gingrich would be helped a lot more if Santorum dropped out but looks like that isn't happening.

Will be interesting to see what happens at tonight's debate.

The problem always has been that as soon as a non-Mitt candidate comes up, everybody gangs up on him and he slips. Will that happen tonight or will Gingrich continue to get standing ovations?

normally a collapse/slip takes a couple of days to hit, and the election is on saturday, starting like 36 hours post-debate.

now, granted, newt's #'s skyrocketed on tuesday after the debate, so they could drop on friday, but we'll see.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah, but blacks were stereotyped as lazy after the Civil Rights Act. They went from being considered dumb idiots to lazy welfare recipients. A meme pushed by numerous conservative politicians in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Thus its no surprise that conservative politicians like Gingrich and Santorum utilize the tactic in a place like South Carolina or Iowa.

And ongoing, as your edit notes. When Newt says he'd tell blacks on food stamps to 'get a job', he's calling them lazy.

 

[FlashFlooder]

The complete self destruction of the Rick Perry presidential candidacy is one for the history books. I honestly thought the guy was going to do very well in the primaries. I had no idea what a complete dumbass he was.

I honestly can't believe that he has been governor of one of the country's largest states for that long.

It's Texas...

 

[Measley]

And ongoing, as your edit notes. When Newt says he'd tell blacks on food stamps to 'get a job', he's calling them lazy.

Yep. And its important to note that conservatives are doing the same thing to Hispanics. The conservative commentary that came out of the Sotomayor SC nomination was pretty despicable stuff.

 

[Mortrialus]

The complete self destruction of the Rick Perry presidential candidacy is one for the history books. I honestly thought the guy was going to do very well in the primaries. I had no idea what a complete dumbass he was.

I honestly can't believe that he has been governor of one of the country's largest states for that long.

Agreed, but it isn't his idiocy that killed him but his failings as a public speaker.

 

[speculawyer]

No, seriously.

@ppppolls
Perry was running behind Colbert in our SC polling last night

Yeah, I think he probably does serve to winnow down the field. I think politicians look at the polls and realize that it is better to drop out than to keep running and have a poll come out saying that you are less popular than a joke candidate.

The amount of money that was raised and burned by Perry is hilarious.

 

[kkaabboomm]

Yeah, I think he probably does serve to winnow down the field. I think politicians look at the polls and realize that it is better to drop out than to keep running and have a poll come out saying that you are less popular than a joke candidate.

The amount of money that was raised and burned by Perry is hilarious.

His SuperPAC should still have a bunch of money...are they going to go up on the air for Newt now?

 

[thefro]

Somone leaked McCain's 2008 oppo research on Romney. 200 pages in all. 11 pages just devoted to flip flops.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/18/o...he-internet-likely-from-2008-mccain-campaign/

I won't read it, but it's a pretty interesting example of how politics is being dramatically changed due to the internet.

I'm skimming through it now, this one's hilarious

In 1994, Romney Claimed “You Will Not Have Me Taking Different Positions In Different Places.” “Outlining
[‘94 GOP Senate candidate John] Lakian’s shifting positions on Wednesday, Romney essentially
accused his rival of talking out of both sides of his mouth. ‘You will hear me say the same thing again and again
and again and you will not have me taking different positions in different places,’ he said.” (Scot Lehigh and Frank
Phillips, “Lakian, Romney Try Finger-Pointing,” The Boston Globe, 9/9/94)

Going to lose Arizona to Obama...

Retells story that, just like hell, Arizona would be paradise with more water and good people. (Tape 60)

And New Hampshire

Romney said he and his buddies at Bain would “launch hostile takeover of NH.” (Tape 68)

 

[Captain Pants]

Yep. And its important to note that conservatives are doing the same thing to Hispanics. The conservative commentary that came out of the Sotomayor SC nomination was pretty despicable stuff.

That part always blows my mind. The Hispanics I know are easily some of the hardest working people around.

 

[Stinkles]

That part always blows my mind. The Hispanics I know are easily some of the hardest working people around.

The vasy majority of homeless panhandlers I encounter are white people. The vast majority of people doing brutal physical labor in inclement conditions I see are hispanic. All the black people I know have jobs and degrees. I am married to at least one Asian person.

 

[BotoxAgent]

The GOP base is shrinking--it's the party of old cranky people, so can't believe the great lengths they would take to piss off Hispanics and further shrink their base.


Rmoney's got this nomination in the bag, lol.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

The vasy majority of homeless panhandlers I encounter are white people. The vast majority of people doing brutal physical labor in inclement conditions I see are hispanic. All the black people I know have jobs and degrees. I am married to at least one Asian person.

Didn't know Asians were big into Mormonism.

I'm a little surprised to so Perry go; I thought he was going to desperately cleave to it through Florida at least.

 

[Clevinger]

Going to lose Arizona to Obama...

Retells story that, just like hell, Arizona would be paradise with more water and good people. (Tape 60)

It says tape. Does that mean there's audio of it? It'd be hilarious if Obama just played that on a loop in ads in AZ.

 

[Byakuya769]

The vasy majority of homeless panhandlers I encounter are white people. The vast majority of people doing brutal physical labor in inclement conditions I see are hispanic. All the black people I know have jobs and degrees. I am married to at least one Asian person.

Haha, working on another?

 

[Emwitus]

is this guy on fox crying?

 

[MThanded]

So santorum won iowa in the certified votes. Its too little to late now. I wonder how the popularity votes would look had the media not jumped the gun on assuming Romney won Iowa. The story up until now has been Romney winning Iowa and NH.

 

[LosDaddie]

Dismissing the Dodd discussion, you can tell that Poligaf isn't exactly balanced when it comes to political viewpoints. When I see a Republican viewpoint or opinion, it's usually from the same 4 or 5 people (Kosmo, Baggins, PD, Gaborn, Wolf). If there's more, they don't post as often.

Meanwhile a Democrat opinion is voiced more often and by more users - both frequent and infrequent.

PoliGAF certainly leans Left, if you only go by regular thread contributors. Once election season (really) heats up, there will be plenty of posts from both sides. I'd say a 60/40 split...maybe 65/35 split. There are a good amount of conservatives on GAF, believe it or not.

The "problem" is that most conservative GAFers mainly either do drive-by posts here, or stick to topical politcal threads. And before the recent change, each influx of new/Junior GAFers would bring a surge of conservatives in PoliGAF. Although a good amount of them always ended up getting banned.

 

[Sirpopopop]

The old-school GAF conservative group got wrecked by the Iraq war. They were wrong on every single point made about that war. It's why folks like Cooter & PS2Kid only do drive-by style posts now. They never owned up to being wrong, instead preferring to follow the Neo-con path of slinking back into the shadows.

Then, there are other GAF conservatives like Altered Beast who have basically kept their views, but watched the Republican Party abandon them for the Tea Party.

The GAF uber conservatives were Loki & Iceman:

They don't really post that much anymore. I'm sure to them, the Republican Party as presently constituted is a foreign entity.


The Iraq war did a number on intelligent conservatives across the internet. On many forums I used to visit, they just up and vanished as their take on the war was thoroughly debunked by the facts on the ground. After they departed, the racist libertarian trope started to emerge.

 

[jmdajr]

I want Romney to wear a sombrero and poncho to his next rally.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

The Iraq war did a number on intelligent conservatives across the internet. On many forums I used to visit, they just up and vanished as their take on the war was thoroughly debunked by the facts on the ground.

That, and deregulation of the financial sector, supply side economics, cutting taxes during wartime, raising the deficit from ~4 trillion to over 10 trillion, etc.

But... the labor unions! Yes, after decades of disastrous Conservative economic policy, let's go after the workers.

Is there one significant national issue that Conservatives have a take on that isn't completely wrong? I wouldn't post much on message boards either.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Yeah, but blacks were stereotyped as lazy after the Civil Rights Act. They went from being considered dumb idiots to lazy welfare recipients. A meme pushed by numerous conservative politicians in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.
.

How exactly do you know this? You don't think that stereotype existed in the 40's and 50's?

 

[Invisible_Insane]

The old-school GAF conservative group got wrecked by the Iraq war. They were wrong on every single point made about that war. It's why folks like Cooter & PS2Kid only do drive-by style posts now. They never owned up to being wrong, instead preferring to follow the Neo-con path of slinking back into the shadows.

I wish neocons knew how to slink back into the shadows--Paul Wolfowitz made an appearance at one of the debates and I was disgusted that he was not promptly laughed offstage.

 

[AlteredBeast]

So santorum won iowa in the certified votes. Its too little to late now. I wonder how the popularity votes would look had the media not jumped the gun on assuming Romney won Iowa. The story up until now has been Romney winning Iowa and NH.

Nothing really would have changed. Interestingly enough, looks like eight precincts in Iowa had their ballots lost.

 

[ToxicAdam]

So santorum won iowa in the certified votes. Its too little to late now. I wonder how the popularity votes would look had the media not jumped the gun on assuming Romney won Iowa. The story up until now has been Romney winning Iowa and NH.

I think it matters for history's sake. It was a very big deal for Romney to win both states. But, as far as the overall results, it matters very little. The only way Romney was going to be damaged by Iowa is if he finished 4th or 5th.


--- /// ---


Dems a longshot to regain the House:

Kyle Kondik updates the House forecast at Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball: "Democrats need to win 25 additional House seats to retake the speaker's gavel next year. In order for them to do that, President Obama will need to win next year, and that probably won't be enough. What Democrats really need is a poisonous, damaged Republican nominee who not only loses to Obama but causes harm down the ticket."

"At this point, we believe that 341 of the 435 House seats are safe for the Republicans (189) or the Democrats (152), which leaves the other 94 as potentially competitive. Ultimately, if Republicans win all the seats we currently favor them to win, and Democrats win all the seats they are favored to win plus all 15 toss ups, Republicans would still hold a 233-202 edge in the House."

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/janhouseraceupdate/

 

[Crisco]

What Democrats really need is a poisonous, damaged Republican nominee who not only loses to Obama but causes harm down the ticket.

 

[LiK]

Rick Perry is out.

 

[besada]

Well, I was clearly phenomenally wrong about Perry. [Eats large plate of crow.]

 

[The Librarian]

Well, I was clearly phenomenally wrong about Perry. [Eats large plate of crow.]

Don't put yourself down about him. I don't think anyone realized he would be such a baboon.

Then again, there's a case that it wasn't Rick Perry's intelligence that brought him down, it was his stance on immigration.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Dems a longshot to regain the House:



http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/janhouseraceupdate/

I think it's really funny how about this time two years ago, Republicans started posting poll leads smaller than what the Democrats lead now and conventional wisdom followed that of course Democrats would lose the House, and control of the Senate was a toss-up.

Right now Democrats probably aren't where they need to be to win back the House, but I'd say they're pretty close and could probably pick up an extra 15-20 seats if the election were held today, regardless of the GOP nominee.

 

[Lambtron]

So Newt's a hypocrite on "one man, one woman" marriage, eh? Apparently he asked his wife for an open marriage.

I have zero problems with poly relationships. I'm just enjoying how hypocritical it is.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

So Newt's a hypocrite on "one man, one woman" marriage, eh? Apparently he asked his wife for an open marriage.

I have zero problems with poly relationships. I'm just enjoying how hypocritical it is.

Newt ballin'

 

[Stinkles]

Anne Coulter's nuanced discussion of the differences between the two sides, and how close we really are:

http://magazine.townhall.com/anncoulter

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Every heard "its only racism if you're white"?

I'm not playing a victim. I'm often accused as being a racist, because I'm a conservative. It probably has something to do with the fact that I go to college, and its a tech school. The long standing stereotype of conservatives being racist.

What do I tell them?

I'm sorry you feel that way, that just isn't true. I implore you to think with reason.

I just read this post. Sorry, but thats bullshit. If you're OFTEN accused of being racist, it's not just because you're conservative. Seeing as you bring up the 'only racism if you're white' remark, it tells me the following:

1) You don't have a good understanding of tact when it comes to race relations.
2) It wouldn't surprise me if you don't have a lot of black friends/associates.
3) You're young (we already know that).

Now, I'm not saying you're racist because I don't think you are, at least from reading your comments here. What I do believe is like many others, you don't know that what you say can be construed as having racist undertones. Let me give you an example:

A co-worker of mine who I don't believe is racist brought up 'kinky hair' when talking about black people. Now, being married to a black woman for the last 7 years, my ears are a little more sensitive to certain key words and phrases than someone who isn't around black people that much. I consider them said in ignorance and yet nevertheless, somewhat disrespectful. But living in Spokane, WA which is overwhelmingly white, it's not surprising that people aren't aware of how such terms can be taken as offensive.

Having a daughter who is half black, half white, it concerns me that people such as yourself don't understand how their verbiage can be taken as offensive. That just because blacks don't have to worry about hoses and dogs on their asses that the country has overcome its racist past of injustice and two class system. As often as you like to mention that a black person was accepted into a University or received a job because of their color of their skin, it's much more common for them to be turned down from a position due to their skin color.

My advice to you is to educate yourself. Study up on the history of minorities in this country because if you do, you will realize that while this country has made great strides, there is still much left to be done.

 

[SD-Ness]

Can someone explain why Buddy Roemer was so quickly eliminated whereas people like Cain and Bachmann were allowed to continue their charade for months? Roemer seems so much more competent...

Also, I've considered Romney the nominee since all this stuff began a few months ago. The competition was just too mediocre. With that said, it seems a lot of "major" figures in the GOP sat back this time around. If Obama wins a second term, the battle on the GOP side is going to be interesting come 2016.

Chris Christie, Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Mitch Daniels. Perhaps Pawlenty, Huntsman go again.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Can someone explain why Buddy Roemer was so quickly eliminated whereas people like Cain and Bachmann were allowed to continue their charade for months? Roemer seems so much more competent...

Also, I've considered Romney the nominee since all this stuff began a few months ago. The competition was just too mediocre. With that said, it seems a lot of "major" figures in the GOP sat back this time around. If Obama wins a second term, the battle on the GOP side is going to be interesting come 2016.

Chris Christie, Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Mitch Daniels. Perhaps Pawlenty, Huntsman go again.

Roemer never had money, support of PACs, and any noticeable rise in popularity. Cain and Bachmann both had stints at the top of the polls.

 

[LosDaddie]

Well, I was clearly phenomenally wrong about Perry. [Eats large plate of crow.]

Same here. But the only reason I thought Perry would win was because the morning after he announced his candidacy, my former co-workers just couldn't stop gushing about Perry. Total man-crush going on.

 

[Meadows]

Any chance of Paul running as an independent/libertarian?

 

[The Librarian]

I just read this post. Sorry, but thats bullshit. If you're OFTEN accused of being racist, it's not just because you're conservative. Seeing as you bring up the 'only racism if you're white' remark, it tells me the following:

1) You don't have a good understanding of tact when it comes to race relations.
2) It wouldn't surprise me if you don't have a lot of black friends/associates.
3) You're young (we already know that).

Now, I'm not saying you're racist because I don't think you are, at least from reading your comments here. What I do believe is like many others, you don't know that what you say can be construed as having racist undertones. Let me give you an example:

A co-worker of mine who I don't believe is racist brought up 'kinky hair' when talking about black people. Now, being married to a black woman for the last 7 years, my ears are a little more sensitive to certain key words and phrases than someone who isn't around black people that much. I consider them said in ignorance and yet nevertheless, somewhat disrespectful. But living in Spokane, WA which is overwhelmingly white, it's not surprising that people aren't aware of how such terms can be taken as offensive.

Having a daughter who is half black, half white, it concerns me that people such as yourself don't understand how their verbiage can be taken as offensive. That just because blacks don't have to worry about hoses and dogs on their asses that the country has overcome its racist past of injustice and two class system. As often as you like to mention that a black person was accepted into a University or received a job because of their color of their skin, it's much more common for them to be turned down from a position due to their skin color.

My advice to you is to educate yourself. Study up on the history of minorities in this country because if you do, you will realize that while this country has made great strides, there is still much left to be done.

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Roemer never had money, support of PACs, and any noticeable rise in popularity. Cain and Bachmann both had stints at the top of the polls.

He was also barred from the debates, which would prevent him from gaining any of those things. The gate keepers wanted him out, so he was out.

 

[leroidys]

So santorum won iowa in the certified votes. Its too little to late now. I wonder how the popularity votes would look had the media not jumped the gun on assuming Romney won Iowa. The story up until now has been Romney winning Iowa and NH.

It doesn't change anything really, but it's funny because I've read several articles in main stream newspapers and websites about Romney's "historic" campaign, winning both New Hampshire and Iowa for the first time ever.

But he didn't win at all. Fucking incompetent media calling an 8 vote initial lead a "win" for weeks.

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

Of course it is. I'm not trying to pile on A27, but until you get out of school/parents house/college/whatever and start having to operate independently in the real world, especially present day reality, you really don't have a clue no matter how well read or insightful you are. The fact that certain posters comments underline this fact is worthy of being pointed out.

 

[adamsappel]

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

Okay. You're young, too. We forgave a lot of your stupid Star Trek theories/fanfic for just that reason.

 

[The Librarian]

TPM has Gingrich now leading in SC.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/01/and_gingrich_takes_the_lead.php?ref=fpblg

I don't think Gingrich can win the nomination.

But. And this is a huge but. If Gingrich can get past his whole other marriage and his ex's interview, he can do some serious damage to Romney. Romney will have to slug it out with Gingrich, and that's definitely a fight he absolutely does not want.

Okay. You're young, too. We forgave a lot of your stupid Star Trek theories/fanfic for just that reason.

Yeah, but I could make the case that politics is different. How about forgiving me because I admit was acting like a complete fucking moron with all of that shit?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

Indeed. Ignorance knows no age.

To be fair, it is something that can add some context. Knowing where someone is in their life and what kind of life experiences they've had can inform a conversation. My viewpoint on politics and policy are very different now than before college and 12 years of marriage.

Which is not to say all young people are naive or all old folks are wise. Posts should be judged solely on their content. But it can add some context.

Okay. You're young, too. We forgave a lot of your stupid Star Trek theories/fanfic for just that reason.

Zing.

 

[Measley]

How exactly do you know this? You don't think that stereotype existed in the 40's and 50's?

I never said it didn't. That stereotype has existed for ALL minority groups at one point or another. The difference is that with the Irish and Polish, they eventually became "white people", so that stereotype eventually vanished. Blacks never fully assimilated with the white majority, so the stereotype persisted past its usual shelf-life.

Black people have always been a large, visible minority that could never melt into the white majority the way other groups could. After the passage of the Civil Rights Act, many white southerners felt the world was coming to an end, so that stereotype became political football utilized by the rebounding Republican party in the 60s and 70s. Even the conservative deity Ronald Reagan used it any chance he could (and for the most part it worked). The same apocalyptic feeling happened again when Obama won the White House in 2008. So the dog whistles are on full display in the South Carolina primary, along with the anti-Hispanic sentiments.

When old white people say "We want our country back", it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what they're talking about.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

Because in combination with other factors (where he lives, how he was raised, where he goes to school, the crowd he hangs with), age does come into play. Is it an excuse? No. Rather, its partially an explanation.

Indeed. Ignorance knows no age.

To be fair, it is something that can add some context. Knowing where someone is in their life and what kind of life experiences they've had can inform a conversation. My viewpoint on politics and policy are very different now than before college and 12 years of college.

Which is not to say all young people are naive or all old folks are wise. Posts should be judged solely on their content. But it can add some context.


Zing.

Exactly.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

One can be well-informed despite one's youth, or ignorant in part because of it. I'm not saying it's an excuse (especially not now, given the ease with which things can be looked up), but I think someone who's 19 can be forgiven for, for example, taking Newt Gingrich seriously because they don't know any better. I'm 23--I don't even remember the Clinton administration.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Not only that, but youth shows in posts, no matter where your opinions lie.

 

[RDreamer]

Can someone explain why Buddy Roemer was so quickly eliminated whereas people like Cain and Bachmann were allowed to continue their charade for months? Roemer seems so much more competent...

I think the theory is that his major issue is campaign finance reform and getting money out of politics. Because of that issue, the media that's running all the debates didn't want him to win or even be heard, so they blackballed him out of the debates and kept raising the bar for what was required. It makes sense, but it does sound a bit conspiracy theorist...

Can we please stop this? I find it frustrating that people have to excuse whatever Starwolf says because "he's young." I'm young. Why doesn't anybody throw that at me? Come on, it's no excuse.

To be fair I think that excuse does kind of work a bit in the racism argument. Those who are young haven't been around during times that were unarguably more racist. That could lead them to very easily say things that they really don't know could be construed as racism.

Outside of that, yeah "he's young" shouldn't really be an argument against anyone. Young people can have good ideas, and they can have bad ideas. It pisses me off when my dad says I'm just young and will grow up and then I'll be a conservative republican just like him.

Also, I really hope Starwolf and anyone else never construed any of my "he reminds me of me when I was younger and just out of high school" stuff as condescending or anything like that. I'm not dismissing him because of that. The dude really kind of does remind me of me and my views when I was just starting college and still shared the conservative viewpoints my dad had. Those were statements of sort of nostalgia, and interest in where I've come from in my views and where people can go over the years.