Support NeoGAF

[Regulus Tera]

I loved their reaction to getting the Rainbow.

"We got a Rainbow. eh."
"HOLY FUCKING SHIT 70% CRITICAL HIT RATE AND A GADZILLION ATTACK"

 

[Hot Coldman]

What's the 'close to you' sidequest?

 

[mongomondo]

What's the 'close to you' sidequest?

It's a poor translation. I think it refers to finishing the Black Omen

 

[Hot Coldman]

It's a poor translation. I think it refers to finishing the Black Omen

Ah, right. Oh, so it's a reference to Schala.

 

[gunbo13]

In which Twitter @-replies give the quest solution away.

Might as well go all out and print out a guide on gamefaqs.

 

[Megasoum]

Might as well go all out and print out a guide on gamefaqs.

I prefer them finding out on twitter something like that (that is so stupid and illogical that it's practicaly impossible to find out by yourself) than watching them running around in circle for 3-4 videos in a row...

 

[Nif]

0 problem with them knowing how to do that quest. It would have taken them forever.

 

[Red UFO]

I just want to see them finish it now. Also interested in seeing how they feel about Lavos'

Spoiler

other forms.

 

[gunbo13]

I prefer them finding out on twitter something like that (that is so stupid and illogical that it's practicaly impossible to find out by yourself) than watching them running around in circle for 3-4 videos in a row...

Maybe. But I'd prefer gamers who are actually decent at games who don't require such. CT is SO easy of an RPG that it is a bit embarrassing that this discussion exists. I couldn't imagine these dudes trying to do complete runs of later FF games.

I admit the jerky part was not bad though. However, my 12 year old brain figured it out so it is hard to make excuses. And I wasn't some gaming prodigy or anything. In an RPG try to talk to everyone when you are stuck! It's simple logic. And have they never successfully talked to somebody behind a counter in an RPG? Shit is totally standard.

 

[Dark Schala]

What's the 'close to you' sidequest?

This was a mistranslation. the original Japanese is: "自分の時代の事ならお前さん達の中にも知っている者がおるじゃろう。聞いてみるがいい……" Raw translation (w/liberty): "I believe that your teammates might voice some concerns about their own eras. You should try asking them..."

It was supposed to read something to the effect of, "For matters [quests] within each time era, talk to your teammates." It's a hint telling you to talk to your party members standing around the End of Time for various sidequests.

Much like the translation error concerning Schala being Janus's step-sister. They are not step-siblings. They are biological siblings.

 

[Captain Fish]

I admit the jerky part was not bad though. However, my 12 year old brain figured it out so it is hard to make excuses. And I wasn't some gaming prodigy or anything. In an RPG try to talk to everyone when you are stuck! It's simple logic. And have they never successfully talked to somebody behind a counter in an RPG? Shit is totally standard.

Yeah, I don't get all the people saying it's hard to figure out. It's really not. It even follows within the logic of the game. Man is greedy, steals moonstone, what do? TIME TRAVEL. Figuring out you need jerky isn't hard. Finding the person with the jerky just comes down to being thorough, but you have to find key people to trigger things in JRPGs. This isn't anything really new.

On the playthrough I started because of this ER, I did that part of the quest as soon as I'd cleared the bridge, because I had talked to everyone and made the connection. I imagine that most people who played this at the time figured out that connection at a similar point, because talking to dudes in an RPG is how you play them.

 

[Nif]

Yeah, I don't get all the people saying it's hard to figure out. It's really not. It even follows within the logic of the game. Man is greedy, steals moonstone, what do? TIME TRAVEL. Figuring out you need jerky isn't hard. Finding the person with the jerky just comes down to being thorough, but you have to find key people to trigger things in JRPGs. This isn't anything really new.

On the playthrough I started because of this ER, I did that part of the quest as soon as I'd cleared the bridge, because I had talked to everyone and made the connection. I imagine that most people who played this at the time figured out that connection at a similar point, because talking to dudes in an RPG is how you play them.

I don't know. When I first played, I didn't think the jerky thing and the mayor were related aside from being in the same house. You first hear she wants jerky long before you need the Moonstone. I wouldn't guess the mayor's ancestors would be living in the same house, either.

When I first played, I wandered around a lot and stumbled onto the guy selling the jerky by mistake.

 

[gunbo13]

When I first played, I wandered around a lot and stumbled onto the guy selling the jerky by mistake.

But did you wander around for hours or a few minutes? The game world of CT is not big. And all events in the game are encapsulated to specific areas (you should know this after doing dozens of questions following this EXACT pattern). When presented with a stalemate you either a) time travel or b) explore. If time traveling is the obvious step like the Cyrus quest, then do so. If it is vague or no indication towards time travel such as the hero's badge quest, then wander around.

You literally have like 2-3 locations to explore within the encapsulated area. And maybe 10-15 NPCs total. You can weed out merchants and lower those numbers. So you might have 10 people to talk to which could advance the story. And you fail to talk to them all? It's called logic, problem solving, paying attention, working off past experiences, etc... It's not difficult and that is why all CT fans openly admit this game is EASY AS ANYTHING.

I'm trying not to hate on the pair but they are just bad at games. Or more accurately bad at problem solving.

 

[vitaminwateryum]

Yeah, I don't get all the people saying it's hard to figure out. It's really not. It even follows within the logic of the game. Man is greedy, steals moonstone, what do? TIME TRAVEL. Figuring out you need jerky isn't hard. Finding the person with the jerky just comes down to being thorough, but you have to find key people to trigger things in JRPGs. This isn't anything really new.

On the playthrough I started because of this ER, I did that part of the quest as soon as I'd cleared the bridge, because I had talked to everyone and made the connection. I imagine that most people who played this at the time figured out that connection at a similar point, because talking to dudes in an RPG is how you play them.

I think what really messed them up with the jerky was that they managed to miss the guy in the bar. Patrick seemed to remember the lady in the past mentioning the jerky.

 

[jett]

I stopped watching this a while ago. Why did they change out Brog with Bucca?

 

[Einhander]

Aw man. They didn't visit the blue pyramid again!

By the way, I forgot, what do you get there?

This was a mistranslation. the original Japanese is: "自分の時代の事ならお前さん達の中にも知っている者がおるじゃろう。聞いてみるがいい……" Raw translation (w/liberty): "I believe that your teammates might voice some concerns about their own eras. You should try asking them..."

It was supposed to read something to the effect of, "For matters [quests] within each time era, talk to your teammates." It's a hint telling you to talk to your party members standing around the End of Time for various sidequests.

Much like the translation error concerning Schala being Janus's step-sister. They are not step-siblings. They are biological siblings.

Very interesting. Thanks for the fun fact.

Spoiler

I thought it was in reference to the Lucca's mom side-quest.

 

[Brandon F]

I stopped watching this a while ago. Why did they change out Brog with Bucca?

Felt the need to level up members that were lagging behind.

 

[Zombie James]

Black Omen? Live? Oh yeah.

 

[IamMattFox]

Black Omen? Live? Oh yeah.

So this is pretty much the endgame?

 

[Pancakes]

So this is pretty much the endgame?

Yep, there are no other quests left to do.

 

[shawnlreed]

But did you wander around for hours or a few minutes? The game world of CT is not big. And all events in the game are encapsulated to specific areas (you should know this after doing dozens of questions following this EXACT pattern). When presented with a stalemate you either a) time travel or b) explore. If time traveling is the obvious step like the Cyrus quest, then do so. If it is vague or no indication towards time travel such as the hero's badge quest, then wander around.

You literally have like 2-3 locations to explore within the encapsulated area. And maybe 10-15 NPCs total. You can weed out merchants and lower those numbers. So you might have 10 people to talk to which could advance the story. And you fail to talk to them all? It's called logic, problem solving, paying attention, working off past experiences, etc... It's not difficult and that is why all CT fans openly admit this game is EASY AS ANYTHING.

I'm trying not to hate on the pair but they are just bad at games. Or more accurately bad at problem solving.

I agree with all the points you've made, but I really don't think Ryan and Patrick are playing this game the BEST that they could.
For the endurance run, I would imagine their focus becomes more on keeping things entertaining.
I've never had to play an RPG while simultaneously holding a conversation with someone and trying to ad-lib witty remarks the entire game.
Just a thought.

 

[gunbo13]

I've never had to play an RPG while simultaneously holding a conversation with someone and trying to ad-lib witty remarks the entire game.
Just a thought.

That is the one counterpoint that I agree with. Whether it is genuine? Who knows. Still, we are watching people play a game so there isn't much else to discuss right? lol

 

[Dark Schala]

I admit the jerky part was not bad though. However, my 12 year old brain figured it out so it is hard to make excuses. And I wasn't some gaming prodigy or anything. In an RPG try to talk to everyone when you are stuck! It's simple logic. And have they never successfully talked to somebody behind a counter in an RPG? Shit is totally standard.

I get the feeling that it's because I started out on Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy I, Ultima, and Phantasy Star that I always have to talk to nearly every single NPC I come across for world-building, information, info for where to go to next, etc. Even when the game doesn't call for that, I still do it.

LOL, oh, so their next stop is the Black Omen? I hope they have fun with the bosses there.

 

[Gestahl]

I agree with all the points you've made, but I really don't think Ryan and Patrick are playing this game the BEST that they could.
For the endurance run, I would imagine their focus becomes more on keeping things entertaining.
I've never had to play an RPG while simultaneously holding a conversation with someone and trying to ad-lib witty remarks the entire game.
Just a thought.

That line of thought would hold merit if they were actually making witty or entertaining remarks during dead air. When Jeff and Vinny were in Yukiko's castle or whatever going through a dungeon grind they would ask each other questions about strategies for the combat, their opinions on it, what they thought about the current state of the game, other games and their work for the audience, you know to fill time and to keep the viewers attention during a lull, and here in this one you have 20-30 minutes of wasted time every episode where neither guy knows what the fuck they're doing (seriously it's been like 10 straight 50+ minute episodes where either the beginning or end of the video is completely devoid of any progress or meaningful commentary) and they don't say anything particularly interesting or try to steer the conversation to something else while they figure out what's what so the only things you have to focus on are just how poorly they're managing babby's first rpg and the sweet release of death. Even when they get to plot, they mostly just read the text out loud which is kind of a big no-no when doing these types of videos on an older text-based game even if done unintentionally.

I can't blame either of them too harshly though, it just seems like this type of game is a poor fit for video commentary in general, due to its simplicity in design, and also for Giantbomb's specific riffing style, since there just aren't that many moments to make fun of or take the piss out of. And their primary motivation for the ER was probably because they wanted to do it because it was a game they wanted to play and hey content for the site, two birds in one stone, so I can't get too mad over it. Hopefully they work on their act though if they plan to do anymore of these in the future as this pairing.

 

[Einhander]

LOL, oh, so their next stop is the Black Omen? I hope they have fun with the bosses there.

They already beat the first boss in the Black Omen. I think they'll do fine.

 

[shawnlreed]

Bring it on, Lavos !!!

 

[Hot Coldman]

Fuck yes. Persona 4 never got a live finale! Superior ER confirmed

 

[Duffyside]

Bring it on, Lavos !!!

Oh, cool. I guess that means what they played today (Monday) got them up to Lavos.

 

[Brandon F]

Aw man. They didn't visit the blue pyramid again!

By the way, I forgot, what do you get there?

[/SPOILER]

Choice between a sword that is way underpowered compared to what they already have, and a piece of armor that is also pretty worthless given the sidequests they finished. There really is no need for them to bother.

I don't think they'll encounter much issue in Black Omen. Even if they bungle through the fights, the sheer power of their equipment and magic should make the boss rush ahead manageable for them. Since they are using Lucca now, between her Flare and Chrono's Luminaire, the many fights up to Lavos should be a cinch for them.

 

[Dany]

Is the Black Omen Lavos?

 

[Brandon F]

Is the Black Omen Lavos?

Semi-long optional dungeon that leads to Lavos and many other sub-bosses. Beating Black Omen leads to one of the unique endings. Fighting Lavos alternately without going through that place will lead to a different ending.

 

[Duffyside]

Semi-long optional dungeon that leads to Lavos and many other sub-bosses. Beating Black Omen leads to one of the unique endings. Fighting Lavos alternately without going through that place will lead to a different ending.

I have so many questions for you, oh knowledgable sage.

How many endings are there? Why does the Black Omen persist in all time? What happened to Lavos after his emergeance? I mean, he's not around in 2300, right? He did his damage and left? And what does this horrible monster want from us!?!?! WHERE DID HE COME FROM!?!

 

[Heel]

What was in the sparkling locked cabinet that they could never open?

 

[Brandon F]

I have so many questions for you, oh knowledgable sage.

How many endings are there? Why does the Black Omen persist in all time? What happened to Lavos after his emergeance? I mean, he's not around in 2300, right? He did his damage and left? And what does this horrible monster want from us!?!?! WHERE DID HE COME FROM!?!

Fuck if I know! I'm no CT sage.

I just happened to reload my LONG dormant DS save when the ER reached the same point of progress(sidequest rush) last week. So I've been sort of aping their progress through the sidequests. I just checked out that Blue Pyramid, so I know the equipment they missed there. And I am further in through Black Omen on what I believe is the final savepoint, so I am very familiar with what they are up against tomorrow.

According to the DS port, there are around 13 endings to unlock I can at least tell you. I do know most of them involve beating Lavos at different critical moments in New Game +. Such as killing Lavos before ever visiting the future, or before reviving Chrono. The endings don't branch based on your actions through the whole of the game, but rather at what point in plotline you choose to "end the game" and fight Lavos. Thus NG+ is important to be powerful enough during a replay to face Lavos whenever in the plotline you choose. You sort of have to look at a faq I suppose to know when to fight him for each specific ending. I glanced at one recently and many of them even require killing Lavos pretty early into the story!

Have no idea on the actual plot questions you mention. Last time I played this game was in 1995 and I don't recall much, so I am sort of learning the plot myself as I revisit on DS and through this ER myself. BTW the DS port localization is a STAGGERING improvement over the original.

 

[Dark Schala]

For the love of pancakes, someone tell them in the Chat to charm

Spoiler

Zeal

to get a Prism Dress if they finish the Black Omen off on the 24th. I would, but I don't think I'm going to be home and Chat screws up for me half the time. :/

Semi-long optional dungeon that leads to Lavos and many other sub-bosses. Beating Black Omen leads to one of the unique endings. Fighting Lavos alternately without going through that place will lead to a different ending.

Not to mention that in the SNES version, you need to beat the Black Omen in order to unlock New Game+. This is not the case in the PSX or DS versions.

How many endings are there?

12 in the SNES/PSX versions. 13 in the DS version, with the added Dream Devourer content.

Add 2 to both of those numbers if you think the bad endings count.

Why does the Black Omen persist in all time?

It transcends time, or rather, it does not age. It's able to stay afloat even after the apocalypse and even after all the years it has existed.

What happened to Lavos after his emergeance? I mean, he's not around in 2300, right? He did his damage and left? And what does this horrible monster want from us!?!?! WHERE DID HE COME FROM!?!

Your fourth question is answered in the dialogue prior to fighting his inner form, but if you want to know...

Spoiler

It exists to discover superior genetic traits it comes across whilst travelling through space, and determine how to incorporate these traits into its genetic code in order to produce offspring. Essentially, it wants to improve its biological fitness to create and further its species' biological strengths. This is partially why when you fight Lavos's first form, you basically re-fight all of the bosses you came across before. It absorbed their DNA and skillsets. Once it determines that the planet it has landed on doesn't have anything else to offer it, it destroys most life on the planet. The organisms living on the planet only serve as cattle for it.

Now I'll answer the rest.

Lavos is

Spoiler

an alien from space. Presumably Lavos dies after it has produced offspring, but my assumption is that in 1999, it saw humanity's technological advancements as a threat and decided to destroy it and render humans incapable to defending against it. He doesn't die after the Day of Lavos because he reproduces asexually on Death Peak with no humans to resist it (and they were being picked off one-by-one by Mother Brain and her crew anyway. The Lavos spawns were supposed to grow and leave the planet in order to take over other planets and absorb the dominant or most appealing genes of those lifeforms.

In Chrono Cross,

Spoiler

it's mentioned and expanded upon that humans gained the power for magic (and also that their brain capacity had increased and they inherited a "magic gene") via contact with the Frozen Flame, which is a splinter off of Lavos's shell. Basically, if you think in terms of anthropology, Lavos is the "Missing Link" organism in the Chrono universe.

 

[FStop7]

Bring it on, Lavos !!!

More like LIVEOS!

christ, i'm sorry.

 

[Brandon F]

Not to mention that in the SNES version, you need to beat the Black Omen in order to unlock New Game+. This is not the case in the PSX or DS versions.

Whoa, never knew that. I remember going through the Black Omen during my playthrough on SNES and unlocked NG+, had no idea if I chose the bucket, or 1999, etc... it wouldn't.

 

[Duffyside]

KNOWLEDGE DROPPED.

Thanks for all the information! I'm going to have to youtube a bunch of those endings once this ER is over.

 

[Brandon F]

Also, where is the extra content in the DS game? I am deep in the Black Omen, but I will run out if I am still missing unique stuff to do in the port. (Except for the new monster training crap.)

Finally, what is the deal with the whirlpool near Chrono's house in 1000 AD?

 

[Duffyside]

Also, where is the extra content in the DS game? I am deep in the Black Omen, but I will run out if I am still missing unique stuff to do in the port. (Except for the new monster training crap.)

Finally, what is the deal with the whirlpool near Chrono's house in 1000 AD?

You popped out of it after the Magic Cave, or something. That's all. I only know this because it was answered earlier in this thread.

 

[Einhander]

Cool. A live final ER tomorrow. I'm looking forward to that. Also it'll be in the evening, instead of the morning. Big change for the finale.

 

[Psxphile]

Beating Black Omen leads to one of the unique endings. Fighting Lavos alternately without going through that place will lead to a different ending.

The game's main ending can change radically or only a little depending on some of the choices you make. Big factors include: whether or not you fought Lavos' first form or used

Spoiler

the Epoch to bypass it (destroying it in the process)

, whether or not you saved Crono, whether or not you fought and killed

Spoiler

Magus at North Cape

, etc. I don't believe the Black Omen contributes to what ending you get at all. I once read in a game magazine years ago that on a fresh cartridge, you have to go through the BO (specifically the one in the Dark Ages/Antiquity) to unlock the New Game+ feature but I don't know if that's true... I ALWAYS clear the Black Omen (3.1 times).

The game's other endings can only be obtained in a New Game+, and are only dependent on where in the game's plot you are when you fight him.

Why does the Black Omen persist in all time? What happened to Lavos after his emergeance? I mean, he's not around in 2300, right? He did his damage and left? And what does this horrible monster want from us!?!?! WHERE DID HE COME FROM!?!

1) The Black Omen (and Queen Zeal) are just waiting for Lavos to reawaken in the future.
2) You mean after 1999? Most likely deep inside Death Peak, constantly birthing new Lavos Spawn that will someday mature and fly off to infest other planets.
3) He came from space. That's all there is to it. Circle of life, baby.

What was in the sparkling locked cabinet that they could never open?

A tab, if I recall correctly. There's a hidden Naga bromide in one of the rooms in the cathedral, which you need to trade the old man for the cabinet's contents. Since it doesn't sparkle, it's pretty easy to miss.

edit: beaten

 

[Dark Schala]

Whoa, never knew that. I remember going through the Black Omen during my playthrough on SNES and unlocked NG+, had no idea if I chose the bucket, or 1999, etc... it wouldn't.

You only had to beat the Black Omen. You didn't necessarily have to beat Lavos after going through the Black Omen (ie: you could beat the Black Omen, leave after beating

Spoiler

Queen Zeal, The Mammon Machine, and Zeal

), and then use the bucket or crash the Epoch into Lavos to beat him afterwards).

Also, where is the extra content in the DS game? I am deep in the Black Omen, but I will run out if I am still missing unique stuff to do in the port. (Except for the new monster training crap.)

Finally, what is the deal with the whirlpool near Chrono's house in 1000 AD?

Just an access to an underground river system leading to Heckran Cave. Don't give it too much thought, lol.

As for the extra content, there is the Lost Sanctum and the Dimensional Vortex. The Lost Sanctum sucks and is comprised of a bunch of boring fetch quests, but you get some good equipment out of it. It's a Reptite Colony that somehow became separated from the normal space-time continuum before 65 million BC. Remember those Vortices that opened up when the Black Omen rose up out of the sea? Those are the Lost Sanctum locations. There's one in 65 million BC, and another in 600 AD.

The Dimensional Vortex is a set of random dungeons that opens up in 12000 BC, 1000 AD and 2300 AD after you finish the game once (ex: beat the game, reload your save to check out what opens up).

 

[Psxphile]

It's a Reptite Colony that somehow became separated from the normal space-time continuum before 65 million BC.

I like to believe it's the same Lavos-free (and thus, human-free) dimension that Chrono Cross' Terra Tower came from, but much earlier in that dimension's timeline. I don't recall if the game ever explicitly implied that, though.

 

[Dark Schala]

That's an interesting theory (and it'd make some sense since reptilian organisms existed long before humans did, thus partially explaining why they harbour little ill-will towards Crono&co). The Lost Sanctum's existence as a whole wasn't explained well at all.

In my mind regarding the Lost Sanctum,

Spoiler

humans never evolved from apes and Reptites continued to be the dominant race. They seem pretty nice to Crono and his party (so much so that they build statues of them), so that's why my line of thinking is that way. By contrast, in the Reptite Dimension (ie: Chrono Cross),

Spoiler

the Reptites overthrew the humans (who likely evolved from apes) and harboured ill-will towards them.

Unless it's an alternate dimension of the Reptite Dimension comprising of nicer Reptites than the ones experienced in Chrono Trigger's main quest...

*shrug* That whole part was a mess and was probably intended to be a little extra which had vague links to Chrono Cross.

Edit: I want a Chrono Cross Endurance Run, Poshul must be a mandatory party member, and they must read all of Poshul's dialogue out loud.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

BTW the DS port localization is a STAGGERING improvement over the original.

They renamed "Uzzi Punch" to "Rapid-Fire Punch".

UNFORGIVABLE

 

[Einhander]

I would've preferred they just knock off a "z" and rename it to "Uzi Punch."

 

[Dark Schala]

They renamed "Uzzi Punch" to "Rapid-Fire Punch".

UNFORGIVABLE

I've seen the name in biblical passages. Alternatively, it referred to the type of gun (with a slightly different spelling), which is the source of the name.

Spoiler

(I found the renaming unnecessary as well. Uzzi sounded cool.)

edit: for reference, the Japanese is マシンガンパンチ - "Machine Gun Punch".

 

[Einhander]

I didn't know there was a meaning to "uzzi." I thought it was because that was their workaround way of censoring a tech name, not wanting to mention a gun name in the game. "Machine Gun Punch" doesn't sound as cool as "Uzzi Punch," though. Glad they chose the latter.

 

[Dark Schala]

I didn't know there was a meaning to "uzzi." I thought it was because that was their workaround way of censoring a tech name, not wanting to mention a gun name in the game. "Machine Gun Punch" doesn't sound as cool as "Uzzi Punch," though. Glad they chose the latter.

They wouldn't have had enough character space to fit the original Japanese meaning in anyway, lol.

Uzi submachine guns exist. I assume that the extra 'z' was added to avoid any legal issues when it came to using the name. It's actually a rather smart name replacement/Woolseyism.