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[Wolfe]

If the Catholic church would stay the fuck out of public policy discussions, stop going around to third world countries telling them not to use contraceptives even in face of a catastrophic AIDS epidemic, and spreading other such nonsense, we wouldn't have to hate them quite as much.

Hey man religious groups are just trying to do good and live life by their own beliefs! I mean it's not like California's Prop 8 was helped taken down by Mormons in Utah right? Cause they were totally effected by gay people being able to be married in another state?!

Different situation I know but I can't help but be reminded.

 

[xavi42]

So now you are implying that non-Catholics and "Catholics in name only" are going to cheat on their spouses now?

Spoiler

What is being single or having relationships that don't work out and moving on?

I have never brought up non-Catholics. My point was that if I walked around telling everyone I was Catholic, and I was having affairs outside of marriage, then I would only be a Catholic in name.

 

[Salmonax]

Hey man religious groups are just trying to do good and live life by their own beliefs! I mean it's not like California's Prop 8 was helped taken down by Mormons in Utah right? Cause they were totally effected by gay people being able to be married in another state?!

Different situation I know but I can't help but be reminded.

Oh, my blood boils over that too. Religion would be perfectly fine if it would just get the hell out of everyone's business and stop actively stomping all over people's rights. The only conclusion I can draw from their actions is that God must be a raging, small-minded asshole.

 

[xavi42]

Lets say that Catholic Charities is your only option for health care, for whatever reason, and you are not Catholic. Do you see the problem here?

I do. Which is why I stated earlier that both sides of the issue have a point.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I'm not sure how you landed on this conclusion. It really doesn't matter. We live in a free society, so you don't really need to worry about it. No one will ever force you to become a Catholic. I promise.

The catholic way is to be open to having a child every time you have sex. It's incredibly disingenuous and antiqued.

As for not forcing me to be catholic, that's also bullshit. I'm hispanic and have direct lineage to a people who were conquered, brutalized and forced into catholicism. Those acts have had effects that are ongoing today, so please don't ever try to feed me that line.

And anyone who works for a charity with catholic affiliations who does not share their beliefs now have their rights in jeopardy, so stop.

Your church leaders are harmful, ignorant and have profound influence.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Conveniently overlooking hundreds of thousands of deaths directly related to Catholic 'intervention' to make a point about one life is pretty callous.

Oh, cool, so since stuff like the colonial struggles and natural resources struggles don't matter because Bible, does your blame extend to the syncretic Christianity that's evolved as it does in all christianized places? Does some guy who believes in animism and the Real Presence still get Catholics blamed, or does he escape your stupid category because he was pagan 1st? Do you cheer on the Pentecostals making headway in certain countries, because Pope Benedict has no control over them?

Edit: Ugh, off-topic. Feel free to respond, though.

 

[Dude Abides]

The Catholic Church doesn't want to do a lot of things. Why is this instance important? Because *theology dump,* not because CATHOLICS NEED TO SHUT UP WHY DON'T YOU JUST CRUSADES

This goes for anything. Planned Parenthood has opinions about a lot of stuff. Why did people care about the Komen thing? Context matters so every story isn't just people yelling at each other. That's why places like NeoGAF Off-Topic exist. The New York Times should be reporting the narratives.

This instance is important because there's a direct conflict and Catholics are raising strenuous objections to it. That does not mean it requires some kind of lengthy theological exposition. It's the New York Times (which did not say anything approaching the all-caps above), not Religion Today.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

Oh, cool, so since stuff like the colonial struggles and natural resources struggles don't matter because Bible, does your blame extend to the syncretic Christianity that's evolved as it does in all christianized places? Does some guy who believes in animism and the Real Presence still get Catholics blamed, or does he escape your stupid category because he was pagan 1st? Do you cheer on the Pentecostals making headway in certain countries, because Pope Benedict has no control over them?

Edit: Ugh, off-topic. Feel free to respond, though.

I never implied any of that. Do I feel that Catholicism is responsible for a lot of what makes up Africa's current state? Absolutely. It is a huge, huge problem. Is it the only problem? Absolutely not. But that doesn't make it less of a problem, and in fact it is the most easily fixed problem on the table.

None of this has anything to do with the callous point that you made previously, though. Are you incapable of admitting the immense and dangerous shortcomings of Catholic missionary work, or are you unwilling?


Edit: Just PM me if you want to respond. I've derailed enough topics lately.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Are there any Catholics in here? From reading, it looks like the Catholic church is against contraception, but is that a widely accepted view amongst it's denomination? I'm getting mixed signals in my searches. It sounds like (as far as I can tell) that only the really hardcore follow that.

 

[Divvy]

Are there any Catholics in here? From reading, it looks like the Catholic church is against contraception, but is that a widely accepted view amongst it's denomination? I'm getting mixed signals in my searches. It sounds like (as far as I can tell) that only the really hardcore follow that.

Lol, 98% of sexually active Catholic women use contraceptives of some kind. That should give you an idea if it's widely accepted.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Are there any Catholics in here? From reading, it looks like the Catholic church is against contraception, but is that a widely accepted view amongst it's denomination? I'm getting mixed signals in my searches. It sounds like (as far as I can tell) that only the really hardcore follow that.

Someone already posted that somewhere between 90 and 98 % of catholics use contraceptives in their lifetime. Catholicism is kind of well known for having a portion of their believers not taking all aspects of their religion seriously.

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

Although I don't disagree with your opinion personally, BC is not a right any more than any other voluntary drug is. heck, life and death medicine isn't even a right in the US. This isn't even about religion since the Catholic Church is free and clear.

A company should not be made responsible for whether someone wants to have a kid or not. There's no kind of connection there except for the annoyance of having to find a replacement.

If the government feels that every woman deserves BC, then the government should cover it. I have no issues with that whatsoever and this is further proof as to why the healthcare plan needs to be stronger and not the wimpy version that came about. Again, this has nothing to do with the beliefs of the employee. Who cares about that? This is about the beliefs of the corporation which are paramount when we're talking about a completely avoidable problem that has nothing to do with that corporation.

The women always do decide, it's just that their decision affects the company they work for. Catholic Charities aren't saying that the employee should be forced to accept Catholicism. Catholic Charities is saying they shouldn't be forced to change their religious belief.

The bigger picture is this mandates that employers support those decisions and pay for it 100% which is silly. They should be covering my Tylenol need. Fortunately the pill is cheap but I was thinking this covered other methods as well.

Going from a woman's "right" to choose, then I'd say that BC would be covered under those rights. Not all rites have to be subsidized or exercised, but they do have to be protected by the government. That is what I believe is happening here.

 

[Kusagari]

Are there any Catholics in here? From reading, it looks like the Catholic church is against contraception, but is that a widely accepted view amongst it's denomination? I'm getting mixed signals in my searches. It sounds like (as far as I can tell) that only the really hardcore follow that.

Catholics in the US, and this is supported by a wide number of polls, are some of the most socially liberal Christians in the country.

There's the 98% use contraceptive figure posted before, a majority of them support contraceptives in general, a majority support abortion and the last poll I saw had 45% of them supporting gay marriage.

 

[Neuromancer]

Lol, 98% of sexually active Catholic women use contraceptives of some kind. That should give you an idea if it's widely accepted.

Haha wow

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

Catholics in the US, and this is supported by a wide number of polls, are some of the most socially liberal Christians in the country.

There's the 98% use contraceptive figure posted before, a majority of them support contraceptives in general, a majority support abortion and the last poll I saw had 45% of them supporting gay marriage.

I really hope this is true. Ever sense moving from my home town, I've been out of touch with the Catholic community I grew up with. I've seen people vilify and demonize the Catholics and it made me wonder if I grew up in a weird church. What you're saying is more in line with what I've experienced first hand.

 

[Loofy]

As a Canadian, Im a little confused as to why a business is paying for contraception pills.

 

[jmdajr]

I'm ( technically ) Catholic and I don't know a SINGLE person that believes contraceptives are evil. Not even my parental units.

That 2% must be the damn clergy.

Be nice if they also stop preaching against masturbation. It's not NORMAL.

 

[Kusagari]

I really hope this is true. Ever sense moving from my home town, I've been out of touch with the Catholic community I grew up with. I've seen people vilify and demonize the Catholics and it made me wonder if I grew up in a weird church. What you're saying is more in line with what I've experienced first hand.

I think that's mostly because people tie regular Catholics in with the hardline stance most of the leaders themselves take.

 

[Divvy]

I really hope this is true. Ever sense moving from my home town, I've been out of touch with the Catholic community I grew up with. I've seen people vilify and demonize the Catholics and it made me wonder if I grew up in a weird church. What you're saying is more in line with what I've experienced first hand.

When people criticize Catholicism, they are generally not criticising your average Catholic, but rather the organization itself due to the policies and antics of the leaders. I've known quite a few people that identify themselves as Catholic but despise the church itself due to it's actions in Africa or the cover-ups of child molestation.

 

[xavi42]

I really hope this is true. Ever sense moving from my home town, I've been out of touch with the Catholic community I grew up with. I've seen people vilify and demonize the Catholics and it made me wonder if I grew up in a weird church. What you're saying is more in line with what I've experienced first hand.

I would say it's true. I am a Catholic Democrat. JFK, Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton, and even someone like Michael Moore all come from that same desire for social justice. So we get beat up on the right for social justice issues, and we get beat up on the left for abortion issues. Fun times.

 

[Zoe]

Going from a woman's "right" to choose, then I'd say that BC would be covered under those rights. Not all rites have to be subsidized or exercised, but they do have to be protected by the government. That is what I believe is happening here.

But nobody's denying a woman's right to obtain birth control out of their own pocket.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Catholic Theology says that every time a Catholic couple have sex, they have to be open to new life. It's a hard teaching, and yes not everyone agrees. But that is what they teach.

The catholic church also says that masturbation is wrong.

It's just not possible to have a system where sex before marriage, masterbation, birth control and abortions are forbidden.

Where is the out for natural sexual desires?

But nobody's denying a woman's right to obtain birth control out of their own pocket.

Poor people aren't allowed birth control?

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

I think that's mostly because people tie regular Catholics in with the hardline stance most of the leaders themselves take.

That makes sense, I was telling my wife (when explaining Catholicism) that it wasn't so much about the exact texts of the bible, but the themes. When Jesus taught, he taught with stories. It's the push for the personal interpretation of the themes that I believe make it a liberal group. Then again, it could have just been my church and the way I was raised.

 

[antonz]

The catholic church also says that masturbation is wrong.

It's just not possible to have a system where sex before marriage, masterbation, birth control and abortions are forbidden.

Where is the out for natural sexual desires?


Poor people aren't allowed birth control?

If she is employed I am sure she can afford it. We arent talking about cancer drugs etc

 

[Divvy]

The catholic church also says that masturbation is wrong.

It's just not possible to have a system where sex before marriage, masterbation, birth control and abortions are forbidden.

Where is the out for natural sexual desires?

Dude, god is just testing you!

 

[Loofy]

I'm ( technically ) Catholic and I don't know a SINGLE person that believes contraceptives are evil. Not even my parental units.

Even if the church were fine contraceptives, it would be a terrible idea to admit it.
Human nature is funny like that. People wont see it as 'sweet contraceptives are ok,' they'll instead interpret it as 'Woah did you hear, the church wants us to have casual sex all day and everyday!!'

Be nice if they also stop preaching against masturbation. It's not NORMAL.

When was the last time masturbation was actually a topic for the church?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

When was the last time masturbation was actually a topic for the church?

when I was in high school (Catholic hs), we were told maturbation causes cancer and back problems.

We even had booklets on it and stuff about how holding hands and kissing can relieve sexual pressures just as much as sex and masturbation with bogus "science".

 

[Loofy]

when I was in high school (Catholic hs), we were told maturbation causes cancer and back problems.

We even had booklets on it and stuff about how holding hands and kissing can relieve sexual pressures just as much as sex and masturbation with bogus "science".

When was this?

 

[Devolution]

Introducing this requirement could cause their insurance rates to rise. So not only would they be paying for a service they wouldn't use, they're subsidizing it for others who would use it.

I'd rather pay a higher insurance if it means I'm less likely to be robbed by kid who never had a chance in the future. If it were up to me women could get on a birth control plan that was completely subsidized. Putting more control in our hands of our reproductive systems leads to a better society, period.

 

[Zoe]

If she is employed I am sure she can afford it. We arent talking about cancer drugs etc

My BC is so cheap that it falls under my co-pay, so my insurance doesn't cover it anyway.

 

[JGS]

Going from a woman's "right" to choose, then I'd say that BC would be covered under those rights. Not all rites have to be subsidized or exercised, but they do have to be protected by the government. That is what I believe is happening here.

It is covered by most plans (Religious groups I'm not that sure. Do they actually omit BC in Catholic insurance plans?), so this is not really about access, it's about responsibility.

The company is now responsible for the birth control needs of the mother. This makes women's rights in regards to family planning the responsibility of the company as if that aspect of public health somehow requires so much more attention.

So although I disagree with this from a religious belief standpoint (Obama can never tell a religious organization that this doesn't affect their beliefs.), I think it's more troubling from a corporate standpoint. I couldn't locate too much past the Catholic opposition, but this can't be something companies overall would want.

Now from a personal standpoint, my wife & I are saying "Woohoo!"

My BC is so cheap that it falls under my co-pay, so my insurance doesn't cover it anyway.

If it's 100% does the copay apply? It may be like the annual doctor's visit that is free at my employer.

If I still have to pay the co-pay, then I change my "Woohoo" to "Boo".

 

[Devolution]

My BC is so cheap that it falls under my co-pay, so my insurance doesn't cover it anyway.

Good for you. Now realize you're projecting your fucking privilege as usual.

 

[Zoe]

Good for you. Now realize you're projecting your fucking privilege as usual.

I'm not the one using this issue as an argument that poor people won't be able to get birth control.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

When was this?

about 6 or so years ago. It wasn't a big thing, just the speal we got during sex ed

 

[Devolution]

I'm not the one using this issue as an argument that poor people won't be able to get birth control.

There is nothing wrong with expanding birth control to more people. If you want a decent society there are some things you have to suck up. Paying more coverage so that women will have better access to contraception is something anyone with some sense can get behind unless they have a fucking problem with more women having reproductive rights.

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

My BC is so cheap that it falls under my co-pay, so my insurance doesn't cover it anyway.

Then you need to upgrade to the premium quality BC. It stops periods and whitens your teeth.

 

[Something Wicked]

As a Canadian, Im a little confused as to why a business is paying for contraception pills.

Herein lies another issue: if businesses (in the US) must, by law, provide employees with healthcare insurance, what specific medications and treatments are required within such insurance policies?


This is where Obamacare is awful- it's incredibly vague. Businesses have no clue what they are going to be required to cover; and such uncertainty is limiting their will to hire in greater numbers.

 

[Loofy]

There is nothing wrong with expanding birth control to more people. If you want a decent society there are some things you have to suck up. Paying more coverage so that women will have better access to contraception is something anyone with some sense can get behind unless they have a fucking problem with more women having reproductive rights.

I want free condoms. My work should pay for it.

 

[Zoe]

If it's 100% does the copay apply? It may be like the annual doctor's visit that is free at my employer.

If I still have to pay the co-pay, then I change my "Woohoo" to "Boo".

It's the $9 generic from Target. My co-pay for the lowest tier is $10. Luckily since it's a prescription it's still tax deductible.

There aren't any drugs that are covered 100% through any level of plan with my employer. Preventative care is covered 100% without copay though.

 

[Devolution]

I want free condoms.

Okay.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I want free condoms.

Planned parenthood, or if you are in college, most college health centers.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

There is nothing wrong with expanding birth control to more people. If you want a decent society there are some things you have to suck up. Paying more coverage so that women will have better access to contraception is something anyone with some sense can get behind unless they have a fucking problem with more women having reproductive rights.

I'm laughing that the above actually has to be explained. However sometimes the scenario is simply 'not my problem' in a lot of folk's minds. Can't be bothered to pay an extra couple bucks, don't care if it means better accessibility/quality of life for others.

 

[onipex]

The ignorance is strong in this thread. We do these always become bash-threads?

Because haters gonna hate

 

[Loofy]

Okay.

So businesses are buying their workers condoms?
The busy ones might might need more than a few each day, 365 days a year.

Planned parenthood, or if you are in college, most college health centers.

Ill assume those organizations arent being forced to offer them. Maybe they should be the ones giving out pills.

 

[Desmond]

about 6 or so years ago. It wasn't a big thing, just the speal we got during sex ed

I went to a Catholic school, and we were told that masturbation is stress releaser

 

[Emitan]

Conversations like this are what happens when you live in a country where the word "socialism" is a swear.

 

[Matt]

I couldn't locate too much past the Catholic opposition, but this can't be something companies overall would want.

Umm, why not? It costs a hell of a lot less to cover birth control then it does to cover an actual birth.

 

[Dude Abides]

Herein lies another issue: if businesses (in the US) must, by law, provide employees with healthcare insurance, what specific medications and treatments are required within such insurance policies?

They aren't required by law to provide it. If they choose to, there is a minimum standard for the coverage they can provide.

This is where Obamacare is awful- it's incredibly vague. Businesses have no clue what they are going to be required to cover; and such uncertainty is limiting their will to hire in greater numbers.

Got some news for you...

 

[JGS]

Herein lies another issue: if businesses (in the US) must, by law, provide employees with healthcare insurance, what specific medications and treatments are required within such insurance policies?


This is where Obamacare is awful- it's incredibly vague. Businesses have no clue what they are going to be required to cover; and such uncertainty is limiting their will to hire in greater numbers.

A good healthcare system shouldn't require the employer to provide the care (Of course they and individuals will be paying for it indirectly).

The government should which would guarentee that everything worth covering is covered without religious belief, greed, or thriftiness get in the way. If anything you let 3rd party's administer it the pkan that is provided by the government than you have minimal job loss to boot.

It's the $9 generic from Target. My co-pay for the lowest tier is $10. Luckily since it's a prescription it's still tax deductible.

There aren't any drugs that are covered 100% through any level of plan with my employer. Preventative care is covered 100% without copay though.

The mandated plan seems to say that 100% would be covered including your 9 though. So there may be no copay whatsoever for you to worry about.

 

[Zoe]

The mandated plan seems to say that 100% would be covered including your 9 though. So there may be no copay whatsoever for you to worry about.

That seems prone to abuse though unless they lay down limits. Otherwise everyone's going to be going for the premium brand names.