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[zulfate]

This is also why Guild Wars 2 is going to rock - it's not just some neat little area you will find by exploring - it will be items, a unique event, maybe even a hidden boss with phat loot.

When I watched that TB video on the jumping puzzle, I absolutely said "Wow." when a special boss spawned, and they got some really phat blue from killing it.

I am going to be giddy once I see more stuff like that.

i honestly dont know what i am going to do with myself when this game comes out, goodbye girlfriend, goodbye job, goodbye life!

first thing i will do is probably play by myself for awhile before i start grouping with you guys, i want to engross myself with this game, there hasnt been a game like this for me since wow. when wow first came it was a magical thing for me lol

 

[Jira]

This is also why Guild Wars 2 is going to rock - it's not just some neat little area you will find by exploring - it will be items, a unique event, maybe even a hidden boss with phat loot.

When I watched that TB video on the jumping puzzle, I absolutely said "Wow." when a special boss spawned, and they got some really phat blue from killing it.

I am going to be giddy once I see more stuff like that.

It was actually a green, which is better than a blue

The item rarity goes:

White
Blue
Green
Yellow
Orange
Red
Purple(Transmuted)

Blues have 1-2 stat modifiers, Greens have the same as blues plus runes with 2 bonuses, I assume yellows have 3 mods with 3-4 rune bonuses, Orange probably has 4 mods with 5-6 rune bonuses, red is probably the same as orange but with guaranteed max amount of mods and rune slots as well as being the most unique looking and hardest to obtain loot. Then just apply the same stuff for Sigils on weapons instead of Runes.

 

[Ashodin]

Ahh that's going to be so hard to get used to lol.

 

[zulfate]

It was actually a green, which is better than a blue

The item rarity goes:

White
Blue
Green
Yellow
Orange
Red
Purple(Transmuted)

Blues have 1-2 stat modifiers, Greens have the same as blues plus runes with 2 bonuses, I assume yellows have 3 mods with 3-4 rune bonuses, Orange probably has 4 mods with 5-6 rune bonuses, red is probably the same as orange but with guaranteed max amount of mods and rune slots as well as being the most unique looking and hardest to obtain loot. Then just apply the same stuff for Sigils on weapons instead of Runes.

yeah that order trows me off a bit lol

 

[etiolate]

Rift has some explorer's goodies and puzzles. Some of it was just an achievement award with a title, but it was still fun to find the spots and complete them challenges.

 

[Ashodin]

Rift has some explorer's goodies and puzzles. Some of it was just an achievement award with a title, but it was still fun to find the spots and complete them challenges.

They were awesome, but they were kinda added to the already existing geometry and areas, whereas in GW2 they will be planned out, traps and crazy Assassin's Creed like traipsing to get to the goods.

 

[Arken2121]

They were awesome, but they were kinda added to the already existing geometry and areas, whereas in GW2 they will be planned out, traps and crazy Assassin's Creed like traipsing to get to the goods.

Don't forget the spikey red circles of doom. Damn those are painful. The slightest wrong move and....

 

[Instro]

It was actually a green, which is better than a blue

The item rarity goes:

White
Blue
Green
Yellow
Orange
Red
Purple(Transmuted)

Blues have 1-2 stat modifiers, Greens have the same as blues plus runes with 2 bonuses, I assume yellows have 3 mods with 3-4 rune bonuses, Orange probably has 4 mods with 5-6 rune bonuses, red is probably the same as orange but with guaranteed max amount of mods and rune slots as well as being the most unique looking and hardest to obtain loot. Then just apply the same stuff for Sigils on weapons instead of Runes.

Damn, thats quite a few added levels to the loot whoring from GW1.

 

[Arken2121]

Damn, thats quite a few added levels to the loot whoring from GW1.

Funny thing is you could find a really cool looking white rarity item and just slot that baby with a transmutation. This actually gives you a chance to never look like anyone else. =)

 

[Kos Luftar]

Can't wait till there is some new news from Anet so that this thread is on the first page all the time.

 

[Dash27]

Is it late March yet? Can I get a beta invite please? I'd really like to play this game.

 

[Ferny]

Can't wait till there is some new news from Anet so that this thread is on the first page all the time.

Yeah it's died down a bit but the closer we get to the end of March, the better! I cannot wait!

 

[Dead Prince]

Is it late March yet? Can I get a beta invite please? I'd really like to play this game.

thought theres to be news had this week D:

 

[ShaneB]

I lose interest in this thread when it turns in general theorycraft(is that still the term in a non warcraft game? lol) discussions and typical mmo jargon.

I never really cared about min maxing about every little detail, and I'll figure out my class specs and all that while playing the game and learning what works.

I just want to play and explore dammit. lol

 

[Enosh]

I lose interest in this thread when it turns in general theorycraft(is that still the term in a non warcraft game? lol) discussions and typical mmo jargon.
I never really cared about min maxing about every little detail, and I'll figure out my class specs and all that while playing the game and learning what works.
I just want to play and explore dammit. lol

problem is this is a mmo, which means you play with other people who depend on you not fucking up, a wrong or suboptimal spec can be the difference between getting some nice stuff or wiping all night

 

[BattleMonkey]

I lose interest in this thread when it turns in general theorycraft(is that still the term in a non warcraft game? lol) discussions and typical mmo jargon.

I never really cared about min maxing about every little detail, and I'll figure out my class specs and all that while playing the game and learning what works.

I just want to play and explore dammit. lol

The more MMO like the game has been made since GW1, the more MMO like elements and player base issues are going to crop up.

 

[Enosh]

The more MMO like the game has been made since GW1, the more MMO like elements and player base issues are going to crop up.

spec and skill build was already quite a big deal in gw1 too ^^

 

[ShaneB]

problem is this is a mmo, which means you play with other people who depend on you not fucking up, a wrong or suboptimal spec can be the difference between getting some nice stuff or wiping all night

Heh, I know. I'm just saying, I haven't even touched GW2 yet, so my interest in spitting out talents and builds is minimal right now. I'll figure it all out while playing the game, leveling up and just playing the game. The game is priding itself on being very open and rewarding exploration, no hand holding per se, so I'll learn as I go.

The more MMO like the game has been made since GW1, the more MMO like elements and player base issues are going to crop up.

Also a valid point, and I guess that's never been what appealed to me in mmo's.

I got tired of WoW and being in arena's or raids and the discussion was never about how much fun the game was, but how someone's spec is, or needing a point here and a point here to optimize and whatnot, or class balance needing to be perfect.

But yes, I see that GW2 is changing a lot of those old habits as we all know, so it will be a different beast.

I'm VERY excited for this game, but for different reasons I guess.

 

[Ashodin]

problem is this is a mmo, which means you play with other people who depend on you not fucking up, a wrong or suboptimal spec can be the difference between getting some nice stuff or wiping all night

This is actually less the case in GW2 than you think it is.

Looking over talents and specs, it's actually pretty hard to make a crappy spec unless you intentionally try to spread yourself out on what you're doing in combat - and even then, you're "Mr. Utility" who will probably have such weird saves and combat options that you'll be a unique snowflake. The game is heavily based on adjusting your gameplay to what is happening in the game, not doing "MAX DPS" or "MAX HEALING" or anything like that.

 

[Enosh]

This is actually less the case in GW2 than you think it is.

Looking over talents and specs, it's actually pretty hard to make a crappy spec unless you intentionally try to spread yourself out on what you're doing in combat - and even then, you're "Mr. Utility" who will probably have such weird saves and combat options that you'll be a unique snowflake. The game is heavily based on adjusting your gameplay to what is happening in the game, not doing "MAX DPS" or "MAX HEALING" or anything like that.

aha, sure
I'll revisit that post 2 months after release ^^

 

[RepairmanJack]

I think a designated healer or support role will be the hardest to get rid of. So far it looks like the Elementalist, Engineer or Gaurdian. Once the game is out there will no doubt be a best healer or support out of one of those three. For the other roles it won't really work though. Sure people will try to creat the best tank and best dps builds and some of the dps will stick it out probably for a while, but hopefully people will grow with the game and learn that it just won't work.

I think it's all up to ANet on how they impliment the content and make people realize this, the sooner in the game the better. From the videos it looks like they're trying to do that.

 

[speedpop]

I lose interest in this thread when it turns in general theorycraft(is that still the term in a non warcraft game? lol) discussions and typical mmo jargon.

I never really cared about min maxing about every little detail, and I'll figure out my class specs and all that while playing the game and learning what works.

I just want to play and explore dammit. lol

Yeah it gets a little tiresome to scroll through posts hitting the variances and nuances of different specs without there being any real substance to it all. I guess people can envision these things quite easily and their imagination conjures up scenarios to deal with that specific spec, but I'm one of those people who would prefer to be pushed in to a zone and learn from the mistake. No one can ever predict what will happen, all you can do is try to make formulated judgements then mix and match.

problem is this is a mmo, which means you play with other people who depend on you not fucking up, a wrong or suboptimal spec can be the difference between getting some nice stuff or wiping all night

And yet PVP is still incredibly novel; we still don't even know the maps and any viable strategies outside of the typical cold readings. If we were talking about PVE exclusively then I can understand, but thankfully I'll either be exploring or being inconsequential within WvW in the grand scheme of things.

If people are having meltdowns or hissy fits over time being lost on an MMO with an encounter wipe then they probably need to step back a bit and realize that spending time on a hobby with no measured capacity to increasing one's own chance of survival is a waste of time in itself.

 

[Ashodin]

I think a designated healer or support role will be the hardest to get rid of. So far it looks like the Elementalist, Engineer or Gaurdian. Once the game is out there will no doubt be a best healer or support out of one of those three. For the other roles it won't really work though. Sure people will try to creat the best tank and best dps builds and some of the dps will stick it out probably for a while, but hopefully people will grow with the game and learn that it just won't work.

I think it's all up to ANet on how they impliment the content and make people realize this, the sooner in the game the better. From the videos it looks like they're trying to do that.

That's not possible because while certain specs have heals on them aside from their self-heal, they are on far too long of a cooldown to maintain any sort of "healer" mentality. It's more like which class is the most "supportive" based on what they can do to help others mitigate damage, but it still won't matter if they constantly run into the fire or don't dodge out of say, a huge slam attack. Who knows, ANet might make bosses have one hit downed attacks, which people would bitch about, but the game has been teaching you this since the beginning, you should be used to it by now.

All I'm saying is that it's going to be hard to try to pigeonhole people into the trinity, because it really doesn't exist in the game. And it's not all about DPS either.

The big proponents of the game will be: skill at movement and positioning, skill at utilizing your cooldown abilities and swapping weapons, then specialization.

Your spec determines your playstyle, not your efficiency. There was a press member who said he buffed himself out for support and defense, trying to essentially go "tank". It didn't work well because when he tried to kill enemies, it took forever and a day to destroy them. Sure, he had a lot of abilities that helped him survive, but it was more like a game of cat and mouse and the cat eventually would catch up. So I would wager that most classes should buff damage somehow on their spec just so they can even things out.

 

[RepairmanJack]

That's not possible because while certain specs have heals on them aside from their self-heal, they are on far too long of a cooldown to maintain any sort of "healer" mentality. It's more like which class is the most "supportive" based on what they can do to help others mitigate damage, but it still won't matter if they constantly run into the fire or don't dodge out of say, a huge slam attack. Who knows, ANet might make bosses have one hit downed attacks, which people would bitch about, but the game has been teaching you this since the beginning, you should be used to it by now.

All I'm saying is that it's going to be hard to try to pigeonhole people into the trinity, because it really doesn't exist in the game. And it's not all about DPS either.

The big proponents of the game will be: skill at movement and positioning, skill at utilizing your cooldown abilities and swapping weapons, then specialization.

Your spec determines your playstyle, not your efficiency. There was a press member who said he buffed himself out for support and defense, trying to essentially go "tank". It didn't work well because when he tried to kill enemies, it took forever and a day to destroy them. Sure, he had a lot of abilities that helped him survive, but it was more like a game of cat and mouse and the cat eventually would catch up. So I would wager that most classes should buff damage somehow on their spec just so they can even things out.

I'm not saying that the person who would be the designated healer or supporter would only be doing those things. Nor would they be the only ones. What I mean is if you have one person who has a wide array of heals and skills for support that makes it possible for the other people in the group to use less. They will still have to dodge and all that and there won't be one person tanking and what not, but one person set up mostly for heals is viable.

I am just saying out of the holy trinity healer is the most viable to stick around. Even if they aren't viable people will still be trying to make the holy trinity type roles for a while.

 

[Ashodin]

I'm not saying that the person who would be the designated healer or supporter would only be doing those things. Nor would they be the only ones. What I mean is if you have one person who has a wide array of heals and skills for support that makes it possible for the other people in the group to use less. They will still have to dodge and all that and there won't be one person tanking and what not, but one person set up mostly for heals is viable.

I am just saying out of the holy trinity healer is the most viable to stick around. Even if they aren't viable people will still be trying to make the holy trinity type roles for a while.

this is what a dev said will make them fall on their ass - even if someone is inclined to support, it's still more viable to rely on the player's skill rather than someone else throwing heals out to you.

 

[RepairmanJack]

this is what a dev said will make them fall on their ass - even if someone is inclined to support, it's still more viable to rely on the player's skill rather than someone else throwing heals out to you.

But you are confusing having a person suited for healing with a group trying to rely on a healer. Just because a group has a make up where they want a dedicated person to help heal doesn't mean that they will stand in the way of every hit and not try to dodge because they have a healer.

 

[Ashodin]

But you are confusing having a person suited for healing with a group trying to rely on a healer. Just because a group has a make up where they want a dedicated person to help heal doesn't mean that they will stand in the way of every hit and not try to dodge because they have a healer.

I understand what you are trying to say, and I know the difference.

It's having one person more specialized to have heals when need be so the other players don't have to hit that heal button and can dps more or control the boss more - if there were mana issues or resource issues, I'd agree with you - but as it stands, abilities are only tied to cooldowns - meaning you can hit that heal button and go back to what you were doing.

I'll illustrate how hard it is for someone to try to be a dedicated person to help heal.



This is the best "healer" spec I could come up with at the moment:

the problem with most of the skills you want to use to help back people up is that they are 40 second cooldowns and above. In the span of near a minute people would have to avoid stuff and not die. Even then, the Guardian only has one actual heal he can control - the others all add "regeneration" or a "healing area" to a certain spot.

I tried to balance it more towards doing damage as well, as the main function would be to use staff skills in combat, then switch to mace/shield for support. The build is more about giving allies a chance to breathe in combat when necessary.

The best part about the build is that it's entirely unnecessary in a group - you can pummel through it with skilled players and not have to worry about heals but your own (and theirs!) but also take the higher risk of not have support skills. And of course, utility skills can be hotswapped out of combat (as weapons can as well) to better facilitate more support oriented approaches.

I will concede that it is possible to have a support-minded player in the group. Is it necessary? Depends on the content and skill level of the other people you play with.

 

[BattleMonkey]

this is what a dev said will make them fall on their ass - even if someone is inclined to support, it's still more viable to rely on the player's skill rather than someone else throwing heals out to you.

Devs say alot of things. Players do other things. Once the game is out and everyone is playing, the truth will be known. They have lot of good ideas, but so do lot of devs that don't pan out once players break down the game mechanics and hit the math of the game. And alot of players are just going to approach the game in different ways. Devs may say that these players will fail for playing a certain way, but we will see. GW1 was not without it's patches, updates, nerfs, buffs, tweaks. GW2 being more ambitious and more MMO oriented crowd focused is tackling a new beast... along with alot of new players

 

[RepairmanJack]

I understand what you are trying to say, and I know the difference.

It's having one person more specialized to have heals when need be so the other players don't have to hit that heal button and can dps more or control the boss more - if there were mana issues or resource issues, I'd agree with you - but as it stands, abilities are only tied to cooldowns - meaning you can hit that heal button and go back to what you were doing.

I'll illustrate how hard it is for someone to try to be a dedicated person to help heal.



This is the best "healer" spec I could come up with at the moment:

the problem with most of the skills you want to use to help back people up is that they are 40 second cooldowns and above. In the span of near a minute people would have to avoid stuff and not die. Even then, the Guardian only has one actual heal he can control - the others all add "regeneration" or a "healing area" to a certain spot.

I tried to balance it more towards doing damage as well, as the main function would be to use staff skills in combat, then switch to mace/shield for support. The build is more about giving allies a chance to breathe in combat when necessary.

The best part about the build is that it's entirely unnecessary in a group - you can pummel through it with skilled players and not have to worry about heals but your own (and theirs!) but also take the higher risk of not have support skills. And of course, utility skills can be hotswapped out of combat (as weapons can as well) to better facilitate more support oriented approaches.

I will concede that it is possible to have a support-minded player in the group. Is it necessary? Depends on the content and skill level of the other people you play with.

Reading this post made me think this started on a misunderstanding. I wasn't saying that a healer would be necisarry or even be a likely choice. I was saying more that with MMO mindsets how they are now people will be coming into the game and will be trying to make those builds regardless of whether they will work or not. I was just saying that healer/support will be the most viable of what comes from this.

I just don't think there is really a way to get rid of that type of build. With tanks they got rid of things like threat and the tanking skills and what not. With DPS they are forced to either have some survivability, heal theirselves, or die because they were focused too much on DPS. But with a dedicated person for heals/support there isn't too much of a tradeoff other than people relying on the heals. The only real conscience for this is the other people in the group dying, which would happen anyways if they weren't dodging and healing.

I know what you are trying to say that it would be hard and the others in the group would still need to heal and dodge, which they would need to do anyways. But I just see a build like this being more viable than someone trying to dedicate to tanking or DPS.

The more I think of PvE and how they are getting rid of the holy trinity the more I think it will be about group builds similar to PvP.

Devs say alot of things. Players do other things. Once the game is out and everyone is playing, the truth will be known. They have lot of good ideas, but so do lot of devs that don't pan out once players break down the game mechanics and hit the math of the game. And alot of players are just going to approach the game in different ways. Devs may say that these players will fail for playing a certain way, but we will see. GW1 was not without it's patches, updates, nerfs, buffs, tweaks. GW2 being more ambitious and more MMO oriented crowd focused is tackling a new beast... along with alot of new players

This is basically where my argument is coming from. Sure they are saying the holy trinity won't work, but people will be trying to use it. Especially when the game first comes out. My point is that of this the hardest one to get rid of will be a heals/support role. There just isn't enough tradeoff/consequence to doing it.

 

[gunbo13]

I lose interest in this thread when it turns in general theorycraft(is that still the term in a non warcraft game? lol) discussions and typical mmo jargon.

Yeah it gets a little tiresome to scroll through posts hitting the variances and nuances of different specs without there being any real substance to it all.

Totally missing the point. A point we covered in multiple posts.

---

As for the trinity stuff...I talked about this a lot but it isn't complicated. Isolated roles will likely be dead simply due to mathematical constraints. ANET only has to calculate the healing potential against DPS. If you are on the losing side, the role is not workable. Simple.

However that does not remove the idea of spreading out the same spec, which I've talked about in the past. For example, you may be able to overcome the math loss with support roles. An elementalist for example has many AoE heals and guardians have passable buffs. So maybe you require tag in / tag out tanks and casters switching to water when CD is up. By supplementing the characters you are still keeping the trinity fight alive. You are only breaking the definition of it being isolated to three specific players. So is that much better? Is multiple support eles water switching much more intuitive then a monk camping support? Is tank swapping much better then the standing phenomenon?

Really, the actual success of the implementation is the aggro system. The AI needs to remove the ability to supplement by being dynamic. However, PvP is a whole other story. The issue there is "themes" and not specs. There will be no supplements in PvP since the objectives are much different. It is a bit more open and less vulnerable. Though, people will still be unhappy with broken themes. All of this ideas however depend on specifics which are unsubstantiated at this time.

 

[Proven]

There's a good chance that with the long cooldowns and the loss of DPS, having someone play a dedicated support role won't be enough to outlast pressure from the other team anyway.

 

[gunbo13]

There's a good chance that with the long cooldowns and the loss of DPS, having someone play a dedicated support role won't be enough to outlast pressure from the other team anyway.

Not going to happen in PvP regardless.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Totally missing the point. A point we covered in multiple posts.

---

As for the trinity stuff...I talked about this a lot but it isn't complicated. Isolated roles will likely be dead simply due to mathematical constraints. ANET only has to calculate the healing potential against DPS. If you are on the losing side, the role is not workable. Simple.

However that does not remove the idea of spreading out the same spec, which I've talked about in the past. For example, you may be able to overcome the math loss with support roles. An elementalist for example has many AoE heals and guardians have passable buffs. So maybe you require tag in / tag out tanks and casters switching to water when CD is up. By supplementing the characters you are still keeping the trinity fight alive. You are only breaking the definition of it being isolated to three specific players. So is that much better? Is multiple support eles water switching much more intuitive then a monk camping support? Is tank swapping much better then the standing phenomenon?

Really, the actual success of the implementation is the aggro system. The AI needs to remove the ability to supplement by being dynamic. However, PvP is a whole other story. The issue there is "themes" and not specs. There will be no supplements in PvP since the objectives are much different. It is a bit more open and less vulnerable. Though, people will still be unhappy with broken themes. All of this ideas however depend on specifics which are unsubstantiated at this time.

The "themes" you talk about is sort of how I see PvE playing out sort of like PvP. Instead of groups looking for a healer or a tank they will end up looking for someone built for bleeds or someone built for conditions.

As for the mathematical loss of DPS from a support role, unless it is in some kind of timed PVE fight this shouldn't really be a problem without mana. In a system with mana the dps loss could be an issue as eventually the healer would run out of mana. Without mana and if it's not in a timed fight I don't see this being an issue.

There's a good chance that with the long cooldowns and the loss of DPS, having someone play a dedicated support role won't be enough to outlast pressure from the other team anyway.

Talk was never really about PvP, in pvp it just wouldn't work because then the cd's would become an issue. Damage output from 5 people would sooner or later outdo the 4 players and one healer when the healers cd's is up.

When it comes to PVE the fights are designed to be beat with skill with dodging and what not anyways. So if a team is doing that on top having a more healing dedicated player the only real downfall is time.

 

[Ashodin]

I think the best groups that will work together in PVE is ones that have some sort of support between all classes, at least protection or regeneration wise.

 

[BrettWeir]

Any hidden message behind the latest facebook post? I know, I'm reaching for straws for new info....

"Last call! The bar is closing, so no more /drinks will be served or consumed here in the Guild Wars 2 Facebook Page Canteen! Thanks everyone! ;-) ~RB2"

 

[RepairmanJack]

Any hidden message behind the latest facebook post? I know, I'm reaching for straws for new info....

"Last call! The bar is closing, so no more /drinks will be served or consumed here in the Guild Wars 2 Facebook Page Canteen! Thanks everyone! ;-) ~RB2"

Consumables confirmed!?

Yeah, I have no clue...

 

[Quadrophenic]

I thought consumables were already confirmed. Isnt there a cooking crafting profession?

 

[RepairmanJack]

I thought consumables were already confirmed. Isnt there a cooking crafting profession?

Yeah, it was more of a joke. I think the only unknown is things like potions and things like that in battle.(as far as consumables go)

 

[Jira]

In regards to the whole healer thing, besides long cooldowns, the AoE heals are fairly minimal at best and obviously require the player to be standing in them the entire time for full effectiveness which isn't something that will be a guarantee given you never know who's going to be taking damage. Those AoE heals are about 15-20% over X seconds and then regens are 1-2% over 15 I think.

Eric Flannum said this the other day about the trinity:

"You cannot for example make a dedicated healer no matter how much you pump into your support trait lines."

People need to think support, not healing. You can make a support build all you want, but don't think you're going to be HEALING people, helping, not healing. Those people will be supporting, controlling, and doing damage whether they like it or not.

As for the Facebook thing, I can't see them getting rid of consumables considering they created an entire crafting profession based around it.

 

[Ashodin]

I think food will be ooc buffs. That's it.

 

[gunbo13]

As for the mathematical loss of DPS from a support role, unless it is in some kind of timed PVE fight this shouldn't really be a problem without mana. In a system with mana the dps loss could be an issue as eventually the healer would run out of mana. Without mana and if it's not in a timed fight I don't see this being an issue.

ANET is just going to scale the heals so that 5 cast sets of the best support heals in the game dealing with CD will not keep someone alive. Therefore, it kills the "healing" option when you hit a certain point in PvE. The ability to preserve will come down to things like tank swapping, buff chaining, condition chaining, run-away, etc... That's at least the way to do it by channeling the trinity. The question though is whether that really is an improvement or just a change in the process.

In regards to the whole healer thing, besides long cooldowns, the AoE heals are fairly minimal at best and obviously require the player to be standing in them the entire time for full effectiveness which isn't something that will be a guarantee given you never know who's going to be taking damage. Those AoE heals are about 15-20% over X seconds and then regens are 1-2% over 15 I think.

The only issue is that ANET can't nerf down support heals too much or they will be worthless. Therefore, they have to maintain that percentage you discussed. And if players can find a rainbow combination between classes, then you have your tank up-time. Also, it isn't like giving nice self heals to classes will stop the trinity. In fact, if you have decent support from outside classes, the self heals only compound the problem. That is another concern, that skills such as guardian elites may cause tanking issues when combined with other support.

The trinity may be dying but that doesn't mean it can't just be remolded/renamed. It's a matter of perspective really.

 

[Squall ASF]

It was actually a green, which is better than a blue

The item rarity goes:

White
Blue
Green
Yellow
Orange
Red
Purple(Transmuted)

Blues have 1-2 stat modifiers, Greens have the same as blues plus runes with 2 bonuses, I assume yellows have 3 mods with 3-4 rune bonuses, Orange probably has 4 mods with 5-6 rune bonuses, red is probably the same as orange but with guaranteed max amount of mods and rune slots as well as being the most unique looking and hardest to obtain loot. Then just apply the same stuff for Sigils on weapons instead of Runes.

Didn't expect them to throw more colors in. So Red is the new green and Purple is the new gold, basically?

 

[birdchili]

if there aren't skills that control aggro, it's going to be hard to make a "tank", no?

if you can't generate enough heals to keep someone else up who is under fire, that negates the "healer".

i'm sure there will become lots of cookie-cutter ways to play once folk get in there with the tools available, but "breaking the trinity" seems easily do-able.

 

[Jira]

Didn't expect them to throw more colors in. So Red is the new green and Purple is the new gold, basically?

Purple is only for when you use a Transmutation stone on 2 items to make a new item with stats from the one piece of gear and the looks of the other.

if there aren't skills that control aggro, it's going to be hard to make a "tank", no?

if you can't generate enough heals to keep someone else up who is under fire, that negates the "healer".

i'm sure there will become lots of cookie-cutter ways to play once folk get in there with the tools available, but "breaking the trinity" seems easily do-able.

Of course it's easily do-able, people often forget that game designers can do anything they damn well please. If they say you can't make a tank (no taunts, mobs don't stick to just a single target) and no healer (small heals on long cooldowns) then you can't do it and it's as simple as that. They could make it so you can't run left and no matter how hard you try you won't be able to do it.

 

[Jayge]

So purple is basically the post-customization-GW1-update gold. Interesting. I wonder how that will come into play in regard to perfect items vs. transmuted rare skins in the economy and all that. I get way too excited at the prospect of making money.

 

[Arken2121]

Purple is only for when you use a Transmutation stone on 2 items to make a new item with stats from the one piece of gear and the looks of the other.



Of course it's easily do-able, people often forget that game designers can do anything they damn well please. If they say you can't make a tank (no taunts, mobs don't stick to just a single target) and no healer (small heals on long cooldowns) then you can't do it and it's as simple as that. They could make it so you can't run left and no matter how hard you try you won't be able to do it.

Agreed, those little healing buffers wont hold you up from some heavy attacks. It seems like the AoE heals are more for those getting beat on, want to fall back and heal up a bit while avoiding damage if their healing skill is on CD.

 

[Jira]

Agreed, those little healing buffers wont hold you up from some heavy attacks. It seems like the AoE heals are more for those getting beat on, want to fall back and heal up a bit while avoiding damage if their healing skill is on CD.

Yeah, they're more for laying down while an ally drops out to heal up than to keep them alive.

 

[BrettWeir]

God, I decided to visit the GW2 Guru forums. Holy hell. It's nothing but doom and gloom in the WvW forum. That place is depressing, not to mention, ignorant.

Back to the consumables, I can't wait to find out info on it. Sounds like a waste of a profession if you can't use consumables in combat. I guess it all depends on duration.

 

[Arken2121]

God, I decided to visit the GW2 Guru forums. Holy hell. It's nothing but doom and gloom in the WvW forum. That place is depressing, not to mention, ignorant.

Back to the consumables, I can't wait to find out info on it. Sounds like a waste of a profession if you can't use consumables in combat. I guess it all depends on duration.

I stopped posting there for quite sometime. Too much bickering and not enough constructive criticism and reasonable arguments being made.

 

[gunbo13]

Agreed, those little healing buffers wont hold you up from some heavy attacks. It seems like the AoE heals are more for those getting beat on, want to fall back and heal up a bit while avoiding damage if their healing skill is on CD.

They won't...but maybe they will. I bring up swapping tanks because that is the easiest way to channel behavior of the past. As long as you can maintain the aggro then it might be possible. That technically "breaks" the trinity but doesn't kill the same behavior. There may also be condition spamming or buffing loop holes. Using a specific team, that could make a durable tank, likely a guardian. So again, just a different take.

That's why I keep saying that the aggro AI is more important. I think people want the holy trinity behavior gone and not just it being 3 characters. Is it any better when you have your DPS ele's doing support spamming? That's just chopping up the mechanic. And it definitely isn't better if you are tank swapping. That just degenerates teams to 4 characters and the trinity is alive with a tag swap.

So yea...there's a bit more to it beyond developer claims.