Rather than a reaper killing shockwave, it's probably better if it weakens them; the ending will depend on your EMS and will result in 1 2 or 3 in your scenario.
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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Rather than a reaper killing shockwave, it's probably better if it weakens them; the ending will depend on your EMS and will result in 1 2 or 3 in your scenario.
Need more to process information, Shepard!
Agreed! Leaves more room for space battles.
I hope that is one thing we can all agree on. Space battles are awesome.
Though they're endings they player could see coming a mile away (and that in of itself is not a bad thing) they would serve the story in pretty much every way the current ending detracts.
Recognition of the player's efforts and decisions? Check.
Utilize the galactic readiness in a logical and appreciable manner? Check.
Give the player catharsis after the game-long build up of tension and dread? Check.
Close the book on the primary antagonists of the story, but leave viable openings for further stories in the universe down the line? Check.
Sexy time? Sexy time.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
It also invalidates the entire chat with Sovereign when he says their motives are unknowable. Pretty knowable and relevant actually, "Your use of mass effect fields builds up dark energy, which over time, will destroy the entire universe. We wipe out organics to stop that from happening."
And it also raises the question of why the Reapers would have left all their technology which used mass effect fields like the Relays. That just ensures the organics will continually discover and use mass effect technology, making the same dark energy build up happen again.
Hellsing321
Member
They should have ripped off Gurren Lagann completely and went the Anti-spiral route. They even have a good example of Organics spiraling out of control with the Krogan.
He is a super-AI, a highly evolved synthetic. He protects organics from lower synthetics. A God-complex.
He embodies the error, but that's fine, because he doesn't see the error. He can't. "If I, the uber-synthetic, don't protect organic life, all these stupid lesser synthetics will overrun it." If he's an AI programmed to protect organic life, bound to this mission but able to think for himself on how to fulfill it, he's gone off the rails to do so.
It's akin to the Zeroth Law conflict from the Three Laws of Robotics sci-fi writings.
From wiki:
"Translated into English this reads "A robot may not harm a human being, unless he finds a way to prove that ultimately the harm done would benefit humanity in general."
Is that the original ending? That'd make more sense than what we have even though it's still pretty lame that they're only targeting organics.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
It sounded like every other interpretation of evolution by the layman (and how some scientists considered evolution as early as 70 years ago). It's been 3 or 4 months since I played the game, but I distinctly remember that conversation and loling when this space lobster has the audacity to lecture me on how insignificant I am yet he has the same understanding of biology as a 19th century Klansman.
e: I think he also says that they have existed infinitely :|.
The dark energy ending would have been fairly amusing since it would have painted the Reapers as undoubtedly the good guys, despite their methods. They're trying to literally save the entire galaxy by stopping the spread of dark energy, rather than saving primitive organics by enacting genocide on advanced ones because of something that may or may not happen, based on the whims of a rogue A.I.
well if they blew up all their mass relays, theyd end up blowing up every star system anyway
which would be no different to just letting dark energy do its thing
so it kind of almost makes sense that they would leave them
but then bioware forgot mass relays blow up anyway and dark energy is retarded for a host of other reasons so w.e
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Now Bioware's working the long approach to PR crisis by waiting things out and hoping the fan clamor will start to fizzle. Will be interesting what their official line is, and how long it'll take to come out.
The twitter feeds are slowly beginning to talk more about the current endings, and start to completely tune out indoctrination/other ending theories and general unhappiness levels.
The twitter feeds are slowly beginning to talk more about the current endings, and start to completely tune out indoctrination/other ending theories and general unhappiness levels.
I don't think that's it exactly. They turn organics into Reapers to incorporate them into network for processing power. The Reapers are a collective or super computers that were unable to find a solution to the dark energy problem. By creating more from sentient creatures they try to find solutions to the problem posed by dark energy. Humans were supposed to be unique enough that we could help them figure it out once we became Reapers.
I don't know enough to know the cause of more dark energy.
No way.
I can ignore the incompetency, but the current methods are self-defeating and incompetent.
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
She just completely disappeared from the game, I'm assuming her vanishing glitch was what made that sound.
When I got to TIM's room she wasn't there either, the others would converse with her but she had no dialogue, just subtitles. Very strange.
I had to restart the mission anyway because me and Javik were getting destroyed during the fight, so I reloaded and brought Liara along. If it happens again, at least she'll be useful in the fight.
The relays are set up so that organic life evolves in a controlled path, making harvesting them so much easier.
EmCeeGramr
Member
L'Etoile did not work on ME3, he left BioWare after ME2 to work at ZeniMax.
Also, the whole "humans are unique, that's why THEY'RE the key to solving this thing we haven't been able to solve for millions of years" angle was something he apparently hated.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
yeah, a chance would also fit the 'hopelessness' theme a lot better. Just before the Cerberus HQ mission, the galaxy is being swarmed with Reapers everywhere, even points where you see no star systems. Which I think communicates the 'you are all fucked' hopelessness quite well actuallly.
But hope is not something associated with a final solution, but with uncertainty and chance. So the catalyst being the citadel able to disable reapers for a limited time in a limited range giving the fleets a chance at destroying them would have made a bit more sense.
(which would give the reapers a 'we can and will beat you' sign, instead of just reaching for the reset button)
Still, if the ending featured every possible ship, we are back to the problem of content creation: why would Bioware create all those models when they are used only a few seconds? Just like the use of bik video is a problem, so would the creation of extra models become a problem.
You would also have to set some type of encounter (set piece) where this model is relevant and can be drawn / rendered by a system under stress, which are the Xbox360 and mainly the PS3.
So no, that 'potential ending' would thrown off the table in about a minute flat, since it's entirely unfeasible on the hardware it's supposed to run on.
I honestly just don't see this happening. The consensus by the community has already been reached. As more and more people finish the game, more "what the fucks?" will come in and the cycle will continue.
They already know this must be corrected.
That's why I dreaded ME3 so much, actually, after playing ME2. I kept thinking "oh god, more human-centric bullshit to end a saga set in a hugely diverse universe". Little did I know I was gonna be disappointed for entirely other reasons.
There are probably ways around that. They use a lot of "tricks" for space battles. A "painted" animated texture and such are really common.
I mean, they did the battle of the Citadel and it was glorious.
Like I said, they ran out of time and money and had to create something with limited resources.
But that's been with ME since day one. I wouldn't have found it a problem since it's established in the series.
Not like they needed to. Those fleets got fucked up.
Javik said that it took centuries for the Reapers to battle the Protheans. The Reapers don't wipe out civilizations in weeks it seems.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Yeah, but I think the other idea that humans are unique because the Protheans genetically engineered them to become their slaves is more interesting than just being unique for no real reason. The idea that the Reapers need additional processing power through organic life in order to solve the problem, and that somehow humans will provide the missing insight just seems forced. Is it that humans decrease the time it takes for them to calculate the solution or that they cannot come up with a solution at all without us? I'd have wagered the Protheans, being the most advanced, would have increased the Reapers cumulative level far enough ahead in order to solve the problem, not humans.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I like that in avoiding the dark energy ending that L'Etoile opposed, they made something even worse with all his concerns still prevalent.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I'm not sure exactly what you are referencing here. There is a certain amount of evolution before they can reach flight and find the mass relays, and at that point anything further is guided by technology- so I guess limited survival of the fittest. But it is guided generally in that whatever evolution that may occur does so in the way the Reapers want, and what natural evolution does occur would probably be on a colonial level. Further, the "evolution" of technology is almost certainly going to be exactly what the Reapers anticipate.
I mean, he doesn't delve deeply into the complexity of evolution, but it a sufficient synopsis of it.
The theme of natural evolution versus reliance on technology is an area that is touched on throughout the series, most prominently during conversations with Legion.
I forgot about it earlier, but it makes no sense to protect organic life if they truly regard them as inferior to synthetics, as sovereign certainly does. Unless the Reapers are themselves ignorant of BOTH Vent Kid AND their own purposes.
I stand by my point that Bioware retconned. And if they are favorable to retconning ...
It is pretty silly that the Reapers weren't all over Earth and the Citadel in full-force, especially when they knew exactly what the organics' plan was due to Illusive Man simply telling them. One thing the series has done a poor job at is conveying how large the Reaper fleet is.
While the Protheans were more advanced, somehow genetic variety has some kind of added bonus. (INT +10.) I think the Reapers presented humans with the option, in that dark energy ending, to join and to try to solve the problem. It's not like it was guaranteed to be solved.
Also, did the game say that Protheans engineered humans in ME1 or 2? I can't remember that.
Only thing I can remember is the flashback orb in ME1, where it's seen that the Protheans were monitoring the humans.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I think it's hinted at in ME 1 with the orb, but I'm basing it off someone's post way earlier in the thread that this was one of the ideas the writers were throwing around.
And if genetic diversity was necessary to solve the problem, you'd think the reapers would spend more time bio-engineering species to suit their needs and harvesting them like an a farm. Instead of leaving it up to chance/evolution.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I read in this thread that was a dropped plot point from early on in the series. The only indication is that they observed humans, and Javik confirms that they observed all races, and more for the Asari.
Yeah it is.
Yeah if you didn't take Javik to Thessia, you missed out on some fun. At Liara's expense.
"Another one of your myths that looks Prothean."
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Yeah, I guess for me London and the whole final battle is when the game started falling apart. Because I was expecting the whole War Asset/ EMS/Readiness stuff to play out not unlike the Suicide Mission in ME2. Where you could clearly see the cause and effect of having gotten certain upgrades or of having certain people with you or tasked with certain jobs. I was expecting at least some kind of more tactical input into the final battle and allocating some of your War Assets. Like being able to advise Hackett where to use the Turian fleets or call in the Geth to do an airstrike or use the Krogan on the ground somehow. I was just expecting more for the last battle than what was actually present. It was a bit underwhelming.
As for the actual endings, I figured the War Asset/Readiness stuff would tie into the actual endings somehow. The endings you mention would be good. Basically I just expected more diversity in the types of endings since its the last game in the series and even by Hudson's own admission now, they have no plans on doing anything beyond ME3, so why not go more divergent? Resources and time of course, but still, they weren't just ending one game with ME3, they were effectively ending 3 games and they did a pretty terrible job of doing so.
I'd have been happy if they gave the option of one possible ending that maybe faked out Shepard's death, not unlike Mass Effect 1 or Grunt's "death" scene in ME3, that can then shift into Shep climbing out of the ruins of the Crucible or having your squadmates help you out. Just an excuse to use "From the Wreckage" one last time. Let Shepard give a eulogy for Anderson back on a decimated Earth and end with the galaxy well and truly wasted from the Reapers having kicked the shit out of everyone, but end on some kind of hopeful note of rebuilding. Put on some New Vegas style ending slides voiced by the appropriate characters' voice actors, fade to black and reuse M4 Part 2 for the credits.
There are just so many ways the ending could have been so much better than the lazy SPECULATION rubbish. Its an RPG, it should have more than RGB colored versions of one ending, come on.
But sovereign was right in the end. I still can't grasp how they make sense out of preventing us from being wiped out from synthetics...by wiping us out. It's beyond my understanding.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
My issue is that there's no pinnacle to evolution. One species isn't more or less evolved than another. If the Reapers are beyond evolution's influence, how are they the pinnacle's of it? If they are not beyond evolution's influence, then they are no more or less evolved than anything else. The idea that evolution moves in a linear direction with more intelligent lifeforms at the top and less intelligent lifeforms at the bottom is a human conception, which I suppose shouldn't be surprising since Sovereign's dialogue was written by a human. I suspect a truly eternal space lobster would speak much more profoundly than Sovereigen does - or he wouldn't speak to us at all.
curses! I thought he didn't make sense because he was a fool. I see that my puny human brain simply cannot comprehend his mission, even when he tries to explain it to me in my inferior human tongue.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I would have been quite happy with predictable answer; the Reapers were the first intelligent life in the galaxy. They hit somewhat of a technological singularity, and steered towards self evolved synthetic/organic hybrid future, each Reaper possessing immense 'hive mind'-esque processing power in a single 'being'. Unchallenged they shaped the galaxy to their will with their own technological triumphs. Due to the way they're formed, their only means of reproduction and self improvement is to harness the genetic variations of evolving creatures. They cultivate the galaxy to let species evolve and grow, then return to harvest their DNA, seeing what they can adopt into their own being.
The motive is simple and believable and makes them an unsympathetic threat. They're on top of the food chain, plain and simple, and thus they must be destroyed.
Well, Sovereign was actually clueless. He also says "we have no beginning" which is obviously untrue since they were created, which the Reapers probably had no clue of.
The true answer is Bioware had no idea what the Reapers were at that point.
The Mass Effect series has some fun parallels to how Lost progressed.Brawndo Addict
Banned
Is the image of the note from an official source or is it one of those internet leaks that may or may not be true? I seem to recall something about it being on an app, but that seems so insane that they would actually put that up for the public to see.
XANDER CAGE
Member
It's from the Geoff Keighley app, apparently.
Now that I've read the dark matter original ending, I thought it's far more fitting thematically to the entire concept of "Mass Effect". Having said that, when I played the Geth vs Quarian conflict last night, I did sense the sudden shift in focus to organics vs synthetics theme. Even Javik's addition to the crew seems to heavily emphasize how organics can't trust synthetics.
And I don't see how this new ending Bioware put is more original. I remember that I jokingly commented pre-release that the Reapers are probably just some kind of 'gatekeepers' that want to ensure that a species is not too dangerous to other species. It's not close but it's similar in idea. They just add the whole "to save organics from synthetics, we must kill the organics first" angle.
And I don't see how this new ending Bioware put is more original. I remember that I jokingly commented pre-release that the Reapers are probably just some kind of 'gatekeepers' that want to ensure that a species is not too dangerous to other species. It's not close but it's similar in idea. They just add the whole "to save organics from synthetics, we must kill the organics first" angle.
Zomba13
Member
Yup. Sovereign was right.
I think BioWare ran out of time and rather than do the sensible thing and delay the game and actually fucking finish it, they just threw in the half ass ending because it was easier than directing 16/24/32/whatever original branched endings based on choices made over the trilogy as a whole.
The ending is 95% the same no matter how you played any of the 3 games, and that's a massive slap in the face for everyone from a company that prides itself in the business of story driven games. It's like nothing you did mattered, you got a whole 3 choices with the avatar and NO fucking dialogue wheel, no input, no real questions, no real answers, no real choice. Sure, you got some flavour scenes after the unalterable stuff happens which adds to about 5% of the ending, getting to see shit you don't really give two fucks about "Tell me the story about the Shepard who boned his way through half the female species in the galaxy grandpa!". Go fuck yourself BioWare.
Did anyone also notice that the Normandy was also mid relay jump? Which means Joker and your supposed crew had already decided to do one before you'd made your choice on the crucible. Bravo BioWare, excellent trolling there. After the mess of Dragon Age 2 and now the ME3 ending slap in the face, I feel that I've lost all respect for BioWare and what they represent (don't even get me started on The Old Republic). As long as the cash registers keep ringing, they probably don't give a damn.
The ending is 95% the same no matter how you played any of the 3 games, and that's a massive slap in the face for everyone from a company that prides itself in the business of story driven games. It's like nothing you did mattered, you got a whole 3 choices with the avatar and NO fucking dialogue wheel, no input, no real questions, no real answers, no real choice. Sure, you got some flavour scenes after the unalterable stuff happens which adds to about 5% of the ending, getting to see shit you don't really give two fucks about "Tell me the story about the Shepard who boned his way through half the female species in the galaxy grandpa!". Go fuck yourself BioWare.
Did anyone also notice that the Normandy was also mid relay jump? Which means Joker and your supposed crew had already decided to do one before you'd made your choice on the crucible. Bravo BioWare, excellent trolling there. After the mess of Dragon Age 2 and now the ME3 ending slap in the face, I feel that I've lost all respect for BioWare and what they represent (don't even get me started on The Old Republic). As long as the cash registers keep ringing, they probably don't give a damn.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Okay, I see where you are going with that. I had an inkling that might be it, but I wasn't sure. I took it more in the tone of his dismissive nature of organics, synthetics are superior, which is why I say it was retconned unless he and all other Reapers are oblivious of their own purposes. Which is pretty poorly evolved in my opinion.
The only thing that makes sense "literally" would be that the Reapers killed their masters, but then continued to evolve, realized that they were wrong, and started the cycle to protect the fact that there would always be organic life. But that makes no sense cause he is a robo racist, so why does he care.
As for the second part, I made that joke last page!
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