Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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Don't these Keystone Cops realize that with the FBI breathing down their necks, all they have to do is make an arrest to possibly salvage what's left of their careers and credibility?

I just find it absurd that an entire department would take a fall to protect one civilian, even if a previous chief did so in the Collison case. How much of a 'true believer' of racial inequality would you have to be to either think you could get away with this, or think that it's worth your job to keep a white vigilante out of jail? I can only imagine that there have to be pockets of their communities who revere them as heroes for their solidarity in this matter.
 
Has the Florida self-defense law itself been discussed much yet? Here's the whole chapter on "Justifiable Use of Force".

Of particular interest here is this part:
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
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IANAL, but it seems to me that whatever the corruption and/or incompetence of the PD here, the law is not helping things, and it almost certainly doesn't jibe at all with the everyday, laymen's understanding of how things work when self-defense is claimed.
 
slidewinder said:
Has the Florida self-defense law itself been discussed much yet? Here's the whole chapter on "Justifiable Use of Force".

Of particular interest here is this part:

IANAL, but it seems to me that whatever the corruption and/or incompetence of the PD here, the law is not helping things, and it almost certainly doesn't gibe at all with the everyday, laymen's understanding of how things work when self-defense is claimed.
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When the person who was shot was unarmed and screaming for help, dont see how it can be claimed to be justifiable force.
 
soundscream said:
When the person who was shot was unarmed and screaming for help, dont see how it can be claimed to be justifiable force.
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No, it can't be. But the initial take-off point for the cops here was that Zimmerman shot the kid while taking the pummeling that gave him the bloody nose and whatever. From there, if they really believed that and didn't have evidence that would say otherwise, it may be that they legally COULDN'T arrest him at that point.
 
Holy shit at the 46 times thing. Dude is fucking paranoid and if he was in Texas, would probably be patrolling the border on his free time.
 
I'm sending him skittles. Fuck this.

edit: gotta bar my windows afterwards. don't want him coming at me in self-defense
 
Still no justice. Still more defense of Zimmerman. Still more questioning of Trayvon. Still no attempt to get to the truth by a corrupt police department. At this point, there are even more victims to George Zimmerman's murder of an innocent young boy: the neighborhood that heard a scuffle, and eventually, murder.

I hadn't listened to all the calls, I only braved myself to listen to one that was posted here, and once at that. I know hindsight is 50/50, but I would think afterwards "I know it would be a reach to expect people in a gated community to come out and try to help him, but why didn't they?" I didn't really hold it against the "witnesses," because a lot of people would hear the ruckus and fear for their safety, even before possibly trying to intervene...that's why they live in a gated community.

Thing is, someone actually did think about it. I listened to "Call 7" on WFTV's website. Hearing a clearly distraught woman tell the operator that she wished she did something...that sent chills down my spine. Here I was thinking I had some audacity to wonder, in hindsight, why someone didn't at least be visible in watching (so George may have snapped out of his Napoleon-esque vigilante frenzy)...and one of the people there actually not only thought that, but vocalized it as well. Absolutely horrifying and traumatic.

I can imagine a lot of people moving out of that community, not only because of the intense media scrutiny in that area, but to escape the reality of the situation that they may not ever forget: a boy was needlessly and senselessly killed within footsteps of their home.

The lack of justice is probably keeping the wound open, the bias and clear sabotage of proper procedure a form of torture by a deliberately inept and corrupt police department. If we actually get an outside investigation, a proper one, reliving that night will be an inevitability too.

At this point, justice for Trayvon should be a given. I'm more interested in seeing the police department get ransacked and combed of the good 'ol boy corruption. I would especially like to see the figurative depantsing of the police chief.

Bill Lee has been publicly defending a murderer, and constantly hinting at (almost to the point of slander) Trayvon's character in a negative manner. It's one thing to not have control over your police force, and hold comment until a proper investigation is complete...but this guy? He's blaming the victim, resisting a proper investigation amid red flags that any normal human being would notice, and insisting that Skittles and a can of Arizona warrants a frankly crazed individual to murder others in "self-defense." It's as if he has lost it himself, trying to publicly campaign about how it's possible to be an even bigger monster than George Zimmerman.
 
Interesting comment from this currently front-page thread on Reddit:

Criminal defense attorney here practicing in Florida. This article is upsetting. I apologize for sounding smug but I have been following this story very carefully and it is disappointing when legal analysis is done by a non-attorney (at least I hope the author is not an attorney), especially when they are not familiar with all the laws or case law precedent in the jurisdiction since it almost always leads to the reader being misled, misinformed, or not knowing entirely everything they should know. I have been analyzing this case from its inception and have put myself in the shoes of the prosecution as to the best strategy to put Zimmerman behind bars if it gets to that point, which I hope it does.

If Zimmerman is ever charged, and a plea deal is not reached and Zimmerman proceeds to trial, he will obviously rely on self-defense. The article does a decent job of discussing this and the reasonableness standard. However, what is not discussed is that any decent Florida prosecutor will file a pre-trial motion, motion in limine, to prevent the defense from asserting self-defense during the trial. If this motion is won by the prosecution, then it will be game over for Zimmerman since his attorney will not be able to bring up self-defense to the jury throughout the entire trial and he will have zero defense.

The prosecution will site to Florida Statute § 776.041 (2012), which states that the initial aggressor is precluded from asserting self-defense where he is the individual who provoked the use of force contemporaneously to the actions of the victim to which the defendant claims self-defense. (See also Martinez v. State, 981 So. 2d 449 (Fla. 2008); Marshall v. State, 604 So. 2d 799, 803 (Fla. 1992)).

Essentially, the prosecution must convince the judge in the pre-trial motion, through testimony and evidence, that Zimmerman created the need to use self-defense, therefore, he cannot assert self-defense pursuant to Fla. Stat. § 776.041 (2012). The prosecution will point to the obvious evidence such as Trayvon was not doing anything wrong, he had only a bag of skittles and a drink on him, the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman twice not to engage Trayvon, etc. Zimmerman created the need for the self-defense. Zimmerman had been watching Trayvon for some time while he was walking, Zimmerman approached him, Zimmerman more than likely placed his hand on him, thus creating a battery. What else would this seventeen year old kid be thinking? He was probably thinking Zimmerman wanted to hurt him or kidnap him. Zimmerman was not entitled to make a citizen’s arrest of Trayvon since Florida allows for private citizens to make a citizen’s arrest only if the person arrested has committed a felony in their presence. Phoenix v. State, 455 So. 2d 1024 (Fla. 1984). Obviously, that is not applicable here. If for some reason the judge denies this motion, then this argument can still be argued to the jury.

I have practiced out of Tallahassee, Orlando, and Tampa. This happens much too often. I am just glad this case is getting the publicity it needs to assist in ending this behavior. The behavior I am referring to is both the behavior of Zimmerman and the behavior of law enforcement.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/r2ezn/go_get_skittles_for_your_brother_end_up_dead_the/
 
I fee like we should all just drive down to Florida and kill the guy who shot this kid. Wouldn't be any different from what he did and we would all get away with it.
 
Devolution said:
Do we even know if that would have saved him at this point?
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Well yes... If Zimmerman just got out and beat him up, then the PD would just be covering up a beating instead of a murder. Sort of like when they did it for the Lieutenants son that beat up people & sucker punched the homeless guy.

At least he would be alive.
 
This story reminds me when me and my brother (yea we're blackies) walked to McDonalds (out of our gated community) and were stopped while returning by the guy working at the gate. Lol, he was like "uh uh, where are you blackies going." My mom ripped his head off. We had to be about 11 and 13.
 
Korey said:
Interesting comment from this currently front-page thread on Reddit:



http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/r2ezn/go_get_skittles_for_your_brother_end_up_dead_the/
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Thats what 99.9% of us have been saying the entire time. It really is just plain common sense, as far as the facts and the chain of events. Minus the legalize. Its hope at least.

Mortrialus said:
How long until Kharvey pops in and argues against this?
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For the sake of arguing, he will. Don't fall for it. Best advice is just to stick to the facts, keep refreshing the thread until Zimmerman is arrested, then a bit more to see him prosecuted for this.

$hawty said:
This story reminds me when me and my brother (yea we're blackies) walked to McDonalds (out of our gated community) and were stopped while returning by the guy working at the gate. Lol, he was like "uh uh, where are you blackies going." My mom ripped his head off. We had to be about 11 and 13.
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Isn't it crazy that you both could have been shot by this guy, and he would claim self defense, then the police would come to his defense, in america, in the year 2012?
 
Random weirdo paranoid conspiracy theory question:

Am I the only person who thinks it's a little odd that they deliberately didn't test Zimmerman for intoxication, that he emphasized Trayvon might be "on drugs" (while slurring his speech and sounding intoxicated), that the officer who deliberately coerced and corrected a witness was a narcotics officer?
Korey said:
Interesting comment from this currently front-page thread on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/r2ezn/go_get_skittles_for_your_brother_end_up_dead_the/
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Get that guy on the case. Wow.

Let's just hope that this injustice picks up steam, the media seems to be catching on. Hopefully it gets major traction this week.
 
MightyHealthy said:
Random weirdo paranoid conspiracy theory question:

Am I the only person who thinks it's a little odd that they deliberately didn't test Zimmerman for intoxication, that he emphasized Trayvon might be "on drugs" (while slurring his speech and sounding intoxicated), that the officer who deliberately coerced and corrected a witness was a narcotics officer?
Get that guy on the case. Wow.

Let's just hope that this injustice picks up steam, the media seems to be catching on. Hopefully it gets major traction this week.
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Odd? No. They are covering for him.

Yes its odd if they aren't trying to do that. But their track record, and current events shows that its exactly what they are doing at this point.

edit:

gotta stop letting this thread get to me... woossahhhh... nite gaf.
 
PhoReal said:
Holy shit, I just heard the 911 calls. This is straight up murder.
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Same here.

I can't even believe there's that much discussion on it in an effort to justify what happened - seems pretty straightforward to me that the kid was literally murdered by this guy without cause.

I wish there was a person in the black community that would go run the media circuit tirelessly and make sure it was addressed like we had in the 80s and 90s - but not a toxic, unlikable figure (you know who those guys are).
 
captmcblack said:
Same here.

I can't even believe there's that much discussion on it in an effort to justify what happened - seems pretty straightforward to me that the kid was literally murdered by this guy without cause.

I wish there was a person in the black community that would go run the media circuit tirelessly and make sure it was addressed like we had in the 80s and 90s - but not a toxic, unlikable figure (you know who those guys are).
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Unfortunately... Those toxic figures are already beginning to make appearances...
 
Korey said:
Interesting comment from this currently front-page thread on Reddit:



http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/r2ezn/go_get_skittles_for_your_brother_end_up_dead_the/
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GOOD.

commedieu said:
Thats what 99.9% of us have been saying the entire time. It really is just plain common sense, as far as the facts and the chain of events. Minus the legalize. Its hope at least.
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Exactly. Glad to see FL has some presidents on the books already that remove the ability to claim self-defense.


MightyHealthy said:
Here is the appearance on the Today Show by the parents:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46781176#46781176

and the NPR story with the reporting from this morning:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...yvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race
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holy shit. NPR is cool, but media attention doesn't really get bigger than the Today Show.
 
Every time this thread is in the front page without an update (Watch Member Arrested!), I lose a little faith. And an angel gets anally raped.
 
This may sound bad, but I'm happy that this kid gets talked about... way too many other similar situations don't even get brought up. No article/no questions happens too often.
 
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