I can see how a token's deck would dominate a block format. They are really cheap for multiple bodies that gets pumped pretty damn strong. With no Rachet Bombs and no real board wipes asides from Divine Reckoning (sorta) and Blashphemous Act, I don't see how you would deal with a tokens deck.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Nevermore might help a little bit, but that's so situational. There's really no reliable way.
godofcookery
Member
It may just be a temporary banning. I would think Avacyn might have something that could deal with tokens. Maybe an artifact removal designed for it, or perhaps a specifically wrath for tokens or something like that.
Even something as simple as reprinting Pyroclasm would help
Alright here's another silly rules question.
Say I use Turn to Frog on a blightsteel collossus and kill it, does it shuffle back in to the library or does it remain a frog in the graveyard until the end of turn? From what I can tell, when a creature dies there is a state base check to before it dies to determine what happens, which suggests it remains a frog.
What so you expert GAF?
Say I use Turn to Frog on a blightsteel collossus and kill it, does it shuffle back in to the library or does it remain a frog in the graveyard until the end of turn? From what I can tell, when a creature dies there is a state base check to before it dies to determine what happens, which suggests it remains a frog.
What so you expert GAF?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I think my Illusion deck is my favorite deck I've ever made. I have fun even when I lose with it.
Anybody else got a favorite deck?
Anybody else got a favorite deck?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Saprolings. I have a Modern Legal deck that basically uses the best of the Thallids, a couple of Doubling Seasons and the better Saproling generation cards like Fists of Ironwood and Scatter the Seeds and Sprout Swarm. Oh, and Mycoloth. Four Mycoloths. Mycoloth + Doubling Season + four or five Saprolings to offer up = madness
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I'm seeing a lot of similar decks using G/W and parallel lives...which is just a crappier version of Doubling Season, it seems.
Does that deck have any Avengers of Zendikar in it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjd6JR5Ddro&feature=g-all-u&context=G22af6c7FAAAAAAAAAAA
Avacyn Restored Trailer
Avacyn Restored Trailer
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Nah, the Avenger only helps Plants.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Because it's not already??? Stupid tokens
I wouldn't care as much if they would just. Tone. Blue. Down.
It's like every set they make it the best color, even if it's not the outright best. It's always the best color to splash, which is worse because it makes almost every dominant deck.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
They've been trying to hose blue for well over ten years now
The problem is that blue still has to be a viable strategy, and blue's techniques are hard as nails to balance. (although they should be better at it by now, geez)
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, blue is always the best splash. And they don't care, as is evident by the non-counter cards they introduced.
I mean, I wasn't a believer in Delver until I tried it out. It's ridiculous. It basically nullifies red as a viable mono color deck too.
EDIT: See, I even want to find a way to splash in some blue here. No room though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Uncounterable is really a mechanic they should up in green and red, yeah. I've also talked about moving lockdown enchantments out of blue before: its a small thing but I think it would help
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
MaRo hates Counterspell. I don't think we'll ever see that card reprinted.
divisionbyzorro
Member
As it should be.
We'll at least have to wait until From the Vault: Annoying Crap.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Warp World...
Just reprint Acid Rain and be done with it.
If straight up Counterspell comes back I swear to God I won't play standard until it's gone again.
Scrambleverse
If straight up Counterspell comes back I swear to God I won't play standard until it's gone again.
Scrambleverse
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG!
My favorite deck was my G/B poison deck in the previous rotation.
T1 Forest, Glistener Elf
T2 Forest, swing. Oh you thought you were taking 1 poison? Instant 2 Groundswell with landfall and a Mutegenic Growth. You just ate 11 poison counter; I win T2.
Venser Vs Koth list revealed
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/adamstyborski-03202012-venser-vs-koth-decklists-revealed/
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/adamstyborski-03202012-venser-vs-koth-decklists-revealed/
Yuck. Mega yuck on the Koth deck.
Boogalogist
Member
WTH happened on the Koth deck? Looks like some random red cards just thrown in.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
They're not even trying with those things any more. The last one was so garbage even I didn't buy them. And I've bought all of them to date.
narcosis219
Member
You're hired!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, I'm not really sure what they're doing in that Koth deck. They have a germ of a good idea with some of the red landfall cards to really play up Koth's "mountain theme" but the rest of it just feels jumbled.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
They didn't want people to tear them apart for the 'valuable' cards. So...yeah.
Yeah, blue is always the best splash. And they don't care, as is evident by the non-counter cards they introduced.
I mean, I wasn't a believer in Delver until I tried it out. It's ridiculous. It basically nullifies red as a viable mono color deck too.
EDIT: See, I even want to find a way to splash in some blue here. No room though.
There is plenty of room for blue in there, you have some awful cards (Endless Ranks of the Undead - if it's going anything you would have crushed them with a better card anyway, Ghoulraiser), bad cards (Despise, Cemetery Reaper, Highborn Ghoul) and cards above the curve of what you want to go with a zombie deck (the 6 drops). I know you probably don't want to net deck, but they are the best decks for a reason.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, I switched that deck around after getting my butt handed to me. I did remove those Endless Ranks.
Highborn is essential though. There isn't another steady 2 drop to stick in his place ATM. Despise, I also got rid of. Cemetary Reaper is a great 3 drop, but does double duty with Diregraf, who has some added bonuses.
divisionbyzorro
Member
What about Black Cat as a 2-drop? It still (kinda) has evasion in the sense that they really don't want it to die, so they'll let it through. The mana cost is a little more forgiving if you go turn 1 Ponder too, and might also give you a little more flexibility with finding the right island/swamp ratio.
Yeah, I switched that deck around after getting my butt handed to me. I did remove those Endless Ranks.
Highborn is essential though. There isn't another steady 2 drop to stick in his place ATM. Despise, I also got rid of. Cemetary Reaper is a great 3 drop, but does double duty with Diregraf, who has some added bonuses.
2 drops = Phantasmal Image, Mortorpod, Skirsdag High Priest, Geth's Verdict
Mikaeus is too expensive, especially with 20 lands (most zombie decks seem to play 22). Phyrexian Obliterator should be the curve topper as the 4 black isn't a problem, if going that high at all.
Ghoulraiser is just plain bad. 2/2s for 2 are awful in constructed, a not great ability isn't going to change that. This is also the reason Cemetery Reaper isn't very good compared to the Captain (who is pushing the limits of playability of a 3 drop anyway), as his ability is worse and you are heavy on 3 drops as it is.
Highborn Ghoul isn't as bad as the above but still not a good card. If you want to play him I would get some Lashwrithes in there.
Ponder isn't worth it in this deck.
You want the dual lands as well but you probably know that.
edit: Black Cat is even worse than Highborn Ghoul.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Eh, I'll look into other things for Highborn, but not Ghoulraiser. That card, couple with Geralf, is a strong combo for that slot. I like it, and it's done really well for me. Mortarpod is probably going in there for Highborn.
Mikaeus is high, I'll grant you. But he's also very, very good.
Phantasmal Image and Obliterator are great...but way, way too expensive right now. Obliterator is about 30 tix, Phantasmal is 12. Dual lands, for the set are 30.
Way too much for me to spend on a bunch of cards on their way out...but I totally agree with those choices.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Deck construction absolutely baffles me (once you get beyond casual play with friends or drafts). You say Black Cat is absolutely "worse" than Highborn Ghoul, and while I have no reason to dispute that, I have no idea why. Where would one go to find good resources for construction theory?
Counter spell should have been a staple card for all time, but I guess they can leave it and reprint Mana Drain and Force of Will
The extra damage you get in with the ghoul far outweighs the minor inconvience of discarding a random card. They can just wait till they have cards they don't care about discarding then kill your cat. The ghoul is an actual threat.
I have no problem with counterspell...force of will on the other hand makes me want to flip tables. "Ok he's tapped out, time to get a combo piece on the boa....goddamnit"
The ghoul is indeed a far superior card. The cat can be better in specific situations (a deck where a turn two discard attached to a chump blocker or sac victim is useful) but overall the ghoul will be far more useful in a wider variety of black decks.
The ghoul is indeed a far superior card. The cat can be better in specific situations (a deck where a turn two discard attached to a chump blocker or sac victim is useful) but overall the ghoul will be far more useful in a wider variety of black decks.
channelfireball.com is the best site I've seen with articles and videos, but I don't know if they have the base theory you are after.
This is a list of decks that went 4-0 in Standard daily events on MTGO in the past week. They are all solid decks.
Black Cat is bad because it has an irrelevant body and random discard isn't very good.
Card advantage and value are key parts of the game. You want every card in your deck to be worth it, either by winning you the game or making your opponent pay. 1 damage a turn won't win you a game, it's just not powerful enough compared to other plays. Highborn Ghoul might be just 1 more damage, but that's double with a relevant evasion ability. Black Cat might just hit a land when it dies, and it's cost you a card in putting it in the deck in the first place. It more than likely won't trade when blocking so there is no value there.
Compare them to two drop creatures that see play in good aggressive decks. Strangleroot Geist has haste and probably takes 2 cards from the opponent to deal with. Similar situation with Loyal Cathar. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has an ability that slows down a huge number of decks and comes out on top of a lot of 2 toughness creatures in combat. Phantasmal Image is either amazing removal for legendary creatures or a copy of a more expensive creature that hopefully gets you value when it comes in (copying a Titan, Geralf's Messenger).
These are the cards 2 cost creatures should be compared against to decide if they are playable or not. Having a turn 2 play is important to many types of deck, and if your deck doesn't have anything suitable it either needs to play something not great (Highborn Ghoul) or isn't a great deck.
Kinda rambled a bit but I hope it's useful.
Boogalogist
Member
Wthout FoW, combo decks will run rampant in eternal formats.
We played some Cube tonight. My friend's Cube is awesome, and I draft a UBw artifact goodstuff deck. My first game, I dont have much going on the first few turns (kept a meh hand with mostly acceleration). I get 4 lands and some artifact mana and pass, he Glimpse the Unthinkable's me on his turn. Most of it was junk, but then I hit a Sheoldred and Frost Titan. EOT I Makeshift Mannequin the Sheoldred, recur the Frost Titan during my upkeep, then draw and play a Sharuum and recur the Sphinx of the Steel Wind in my graveyard. The look on his face was priceless.
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