Support NeoGAF

[Ashodin]

Holy cow. This thread went nuts.

So Grizz shared some leaked info? I don't see what the big deal is. I mean, I do to ArenaNet and Rubi being upset about the initial release, but of those that share it? Come on.

My main concern about the leaked info, is price change difference between beta and release. If beta testers can purchase those items in the beta, and they transfer to the live game (like Jira confirmed a couple pages ago), beta testers may be getting these items cheaper/expensive than the final cost.

I played GW1.....not religiously, and I never bought anything from the MTS. I'm kind of shocked at the prices of some of these items. Making me re-think my CE purchase, going down to Digital Deluxe, since I know I will want some of those items day 1. With no different special features at all in game between CE/DD, I think money would be best spent expanding my game than having a statue and an art book. The prices don't bother me at all, just a little taken back.

Rather, I'd think that we're only discussing the information, not spreading it beyond NeoGAF. Sure it got spread -to- here, but I can say with honesty that the majority of top tier GW2 talkers here would never spread it beyond these walls.

About the CE though, I think artbook will be pimpin'.

It's definitely not a deal breaker for me, but it would make me feel a lot better about it if you could somehow get keys in the game. Even if they are extremely rare drops it would still give people the chance to store the chests and hope to get one some day.

Also I hope the chests and keys(if they're in the game) can be sold for gold as well. If i could sell two chests to fund the key to open one, I'd be good with this as well.

I think this will come to pass, honestly. Really hope the keys aren't cash shop only, that would mean the chests are worthless unless you have them, which might make their value pretty high though.

Extra Credit:

so awesome

 

[Sent]

Yeah, I really don't see the huge gripe. If the gold prices on the influence is pretty high and it only gives them a little better gear a little quicker I don't understand how it's an issue. It's not like they are taking the gear from the dungeon and token vendars and selling them for dirt cheap. They aren't even indirectly doing that. They are giving a boost, you still have to go do the work.

Every time they release a new character in LoL and I see someone playing it I rage out and smash my computer. Then I buy a new computer. Guru style of playing.

 

[Retro]

true... chances are good that i'll pay real cash for these on my main if i get to the point where i need more inventory space (as we don't really know much about consumables yet, i'm not really sure how quickly my inventory will fill up).

Based on what we saw during the press event, enemies drop a lot of junk. Lots of it looked like crafting materials but I'm sure there was plenty of vendor trash in there too. Maybe they were just poor at managing their inventories (they were poor at pretty much everything else

), but I did see a lot of videos where the "Your bags are full" message was coming up a lot.

There's no alchemy profession, but cooking could be quite substantial and I'm sure there will be the usual food/drink items meant to be used to get you back up to combat speed after a battle.

I'm also pretty sure that we'll want to carry additional weapons in our inventories, to swap out between battles as the situation demands. I'll probably go Mace+Shield/Hammer for my warrior, but keep a Longbow or Rifle or something for ranged fights.

necessary evil exactly. i shall be treating these chests as irritating vendor trash that i have to manage through the marketplace.

I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I used to just throw my lockboxes onto the AH in WoW and people would buy them on the chance that there was something great inside. My memories of WoW are a bit fuzzy (partially because I try to forget them and partially because it all blurs together). If we can sell them in GW2, I'm sure I'd get whispers from people saying "Hey, I just got [Epic Blade of Awesome+12] from that lockbox you sold, lol", but in my mind it's still better than just vendoring them and there's not as much risk.

If there's no alternative method of unlocking Mythic chests, those suckers are getting pawned off quickly. Unless the price of keys is low enough that I think the risk is worth it.

i certainly understand the need for a cash shop, but this kind of thing breaks immersion for me and constantly reminds me of the real-money gambling nature of the game for some people.

I'll take the cash shop over having to feel like I should be playing more because I'm paying for the time. I'd rather toss a few bucks every few weeks towards the developer who's made a game that doesn't feel like a skinner box than blow $15 a month on a developer finding interesting new ways to keep me on the treadmill. To each their own, but

In my experience, subscription breeds entitlement in the community, allowing kids to justify their behavior because "It's my $15 a month, I play how I want". Saw lots of people quit groups, leave guilds, steal loot / guild bank items and go on and on and on about how Company X needs to 'fix their game' so their class can be better.

absolutely. i'm just crotchety about microtransactions like this

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't like microtransactions either. I still can't play the Sims for more than an hour or so before I start to notice all of the stuff that's just flat out missing, but is readily available for 600 Sim Points. And that's from someone who was perfectly okay buying the yearly expansions that just added back in stuff that had been released for the previous version of the game.

The popular, pessimistic view is that developers are going to ship games with pieces purposely withheld and charge you later to get the 'full experience'. If the substance of this leak is accurate, I don't think we can count ArenaNet amongst their numbers.

For Retro.

Charr-broiled. Bahaha.

 

[Ashodin]

Every time they release a new character in LoL and I see someone playing it I rage out and smash my computer. Then I buy a new computer. Guru style of playing.

Haha that could be a meme on its own. "Guru style of rage, Guru style of x".

 

[nataku]

Mystic keys are fairly cheap in general though, and I'm sure you can put them on the trading post. So even if the keys don't drop in the world it should still be pretty easy to go to the trading post and buy one for gold if they're not too expensive.

My concern with the mystic chests is if they have completely unique skins for items only available from the chests at some absurdly low drop rate.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Yeah..kind of have to agree. Even if they did give GAF invites, why should some members have priority over others? Pretty silly. Just because some people have posted more than others doesn't make the people with less posts any less interested in the beta. I also find that this thread often has a bit too much praise and not enough critique. And I don't mean people should be shitting on the game, but there should be some more critical analysis.


Yeah, and that worked out really nicely. COUGH MEERU COUGH

Were you not around for the pages and pages of arguing over downed state? There has been plenty of things being critiqued in the thread, but the thread has come to the point where most the stuff we would be worried about is hard to discuss much farther without the game in hand. Almost all concerns have been voiced pretty abundantly, it's just hard to talk much past the point where it's at without seeing how it plays out.

Downed state in pvp is still my biggest issue and concern. I think it is dumb and shouldn't be in pvp, but I don't bring it up much because it just goes in circles and comes to the conclusion that we don't really know how it wil play out in pvp strategy and playstyles.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Were you not around for the pages and pages of arguing over downed state? There has been plenty of things being critiqued in the thread, but the thread has come to the point where most the stuff we would be worried about is hard to discuss much farther without the game in hand. Almost all concerns have been voiced pretty abundantly, it's just hard to talk much past the point where it's at without seeing how it plays out.

Downed state in pvp is still my biggest issue and concern. I think it is dumb and shouldn't be in pvp, but I don't bring it up much because it just goes in circles and comes to the conclusion that we don't really know how it wil play out in pvp strategy and playstyles.

Honestly, discussion for this game has been going on for so long that we've talked in circles for just about every topic I could possibly imagine. It really is about time we start playing the game to see who was right about what. This weekend's beta aside, we're finally within sight of that happening.

 

[Quadrophenic]

werent extra bags and storage in GW1 unlocked only via microtransactions and as aniversary gifts?

 

[BrettWeir]

TB's Explorable Dungeon footage is up. Only up to 480p QQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2rAK0Q-8

 

[Ashodin]

Mystic keys are fairly cheap in general though, and I'm sure you can put them on the trading post. So even if the keys don't drop in the world it should still be pretty easy to go to the trading post and buy one for gold if they're not too expensive.

My concern with the mystic chests is if they have completely unique skins for items only available from the chests at some absurdly low drop rate.

I agree with this.

Were you not around for the pages and pages of arguing over downed state? There has been plenty of things being critiqued in the thread, but the thread has come to the point where most the stuff we would be worried about is hard to discuss much farther without the game in hand. Almost all concerns have been voiced pretty abundantly, it's just hard to talk much past the point where it's at without seeing how it plays out.

Downed state in pvp is still my biggest issue and concern. I think it is dumb and shouldn't be in pvp, but I don't bring it up much because it just goes in circles and comes to the conclusion that we don't really know how it wil play out in pvp strategy and playstyles.

Downed state again? Man just leave it alone.

TB's Explorable Dungeon footage is up. Only up to 480p QQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2rAK0Q-8

Oh shiz, watching!

 

[Retro]

Were you not around for the pages and pages of arguing over downed state? There has been plenty of things being critiqued in the thread, but the thread has come to the point where most the stuff we would be worried about is hard to discuss much farther without the game in hand. Almost all concerns have been voiced pretty abundantly, it's just hard to talk much past the point where it's at without seeing how it plays out.

I would add to this that the discussions never grew especially heated and even when people adamantly disagreed on things, it never became anything less than respectful. In fact, I'd say I actually think more highly of some posters I disagreed with just because the debates were so level-headed.

It makes what is going on over at GWGuru seem all the more unreasonable and makes me all the more thankful for GAF.

TB's Explorable Dungeon footage is up. Only up to 480p QQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2rAK0Q-8

Awesome, I know what I'm watching during Lunch.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Downed state again? Man just leave it alone.

No! We aren't being critical enough!

TB's Explorable Dungeon footage is up. Only up to 480p QQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2rAK0Q-8

Damn, gotta wait til I get home.

I would add to this that the discussions never grew especially heated and even when people adamantly disagreed on things, it never became anything less than respectful. In fact, I'd say I actually think more highly of some posters I disagreed with just because the debates were so level-headed.

It makes what is going on over at GWGuru seem all the more unreasonable and makes me all the more thankful for GAF.

Completely agree.

Spoiler

Except for those who supported downed state being in pvp.

 

[birdchili]

Maybe they were just poor at managing their inventories (they were poor at pretty much everything else

), but I did see a lot of videos where the "Your bags are full" message was coming up a lot.

i guarantee i will be poor at managing my inventory. that's why i need all them bags

we'll see how it goes with crafting ingredients... in contrast to my real-world persona, i anticipate enjoying killing much more than creating.

In my experience, subscription breeds entitlement in the community, allowing kids to justify their behavior because "It's my $15 a month, I play how I want".

good point if true (seems plausible)... i *so* very hope the community ends up mostly good.

i don't really resent paying a monthly fee for a game like this if there's constantly content being added, but you don't actually get no microtransactions in those games either, in my experience

i don't have any desire to be in the beta, but would surely like to get my hands on this soon for some grand adventures.

 

[Spookie]

Yeah, and that worked out really nicely. COUGH MEERU COUGH

That's why I said 20 keys, the other keys went to gaffers.

I think we got an additional 10 a month later.

good point if true (seems plausible)... i *so* very hope the community ends up mostly good.

I have no illusions it's probably going to be complete shit, the more popular something is the more pricks it attracts. But I look at this way as long as we can combine ourselves in to one massive uber guild we can control the flow of morons we play with.

 

[Shakala]

I sure hope I can pre-purchase the CE at best buy so I can use my credit card there :x

 

[darkwing]

TB's Explorable Dungeon footage is up. Only up to 480p QQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2rAK0Q-8

why did I watch this , makes the wait harder :|

 

[PhoenixDark]

Can you make multiple characters in the beta, to test each profession out?

 

[Retro]

Hmm... looks like everyone votes on which route they want to take through exploration mode dungeons. I can see that being a source of potential drama if people are trying to get a specific item.

Damn, those traps aren't playing around either, I like the idea of dungeons being dangerous labyrinths again instead of trash-filled hallways with a loot pinata at the end. If this dungeon is any indication, they're gonna packed to the gills with things that can kill you if you're not careful.

Might want to go get some training in Dark Souls before we dive into GW2 folks.

I love the fight where you can (actually, from the sound of things, you need) someone springing spike traps to keep hordes of adds off your group. This is the kind of stuff that MMOs should have been doing for the last 10 years; actual teamwork.

Can you make multiple characters in the beta, to test each profession out?

Pretty sure you can, yes. If not, you could always delete a character and create a new one.

 

[BrettWeir]

The TB video has 720p.

 

[Ashodin]

No! We aren't being critical enough!



Damn, gotta wait til I get home.



Completely agree.

Spoiler

Except for those who supported downed state being in pvp.

Blasphemer!

i guarantee i will be poor at managing my inventory. that's why i need all them bags

we'll see how it goes with crafting ingredients... in contrast to my real-world persona, i anticipate enjoying killing much more than creating.


good point if true (seems plausible)... i *so* very hope the community ends up mostly good.

i don't really resent paying a monthly fee for a game like this if there's constantly content being added, but you don't actually get no microtransactions in those games either, in my experience

i don't have any desire to be in the beta, but would surely like to get my hands on this soon for some grand adventures.

I just want to test things for ArenaNet. Honest!

 

[Artadius]

This is the kind of stuff that MMOs should have been doing for the last 10 years; actual teamwork.

This is a pretty ridiculous statement.

 

[Retro]

This is a pretty ridiculous statement.

The majority of MMOs have been Diku clones which are built around artificial mechanics like aggro/tanking. While some level of organization is required, I wouldn't go so far as to call it teamwork.

What we're seeing in the TB video here is players having to rush over and revive fallen comrades, trigger environmental weapons, stack conditions, and defeat an enemy while protecting an NPC at the same time. While avoiding traps and keeping themselves alive. As he's saying, it's total chaos and being aware of what's going on is required of everyone.

In other words, you can't be a DPS class and spam rotations through the encounters and get out of the fire once in a while. Everyone needs everyone else and no single person can make or break the experience.

In a Diku-based MMO, once you learn the dance steps (move here, pull adds there, move back here, etc.) and meet the gear checks, the only thing standing in your way are the other members of your group getting it wrong. If they screw up, there's nothing you can do. Tank didn't step out of the fire? Wipe. Priest's internet went out? Wipe.

In GW2, you not only can step up, you must step up and play as a team.

 

[Sent]

The majority of MMOs have been Diku clones which are built around artificial mechanics like aggro/tanking. While some level of organization is required, I wouldn't go so far as to call it teamwork.

There is a large amount of teamwork required in some raids of WoW, you can't say that there isn't. It's formulaic but still teamwork.

 

[Ashodin]

Noticing the chat log on TB's video:

Hellia Fataar: Is cooking the most complicated craft in this game?
Linsmer: Yep! We are going to call it an Advanced Craft.
Linsmer: You will need to travel, gather materials, spend karma and gold.
Linsmer: You also need more inventory/storage
Linsmer: But of all the crafts, it plays with and takes advantage of the discovery system the most.
Linsmer: It also interacts with a lot of the reward systems in the game, which is neat.
Linsmer: Some of the food buffs are cool, my favorite is [Bowl of Ascalonian Salad]

 

[GrizzNKev]

The majority of MMOs have been Diku clones which are built around artificial mechanics like aggro/tanking. While some level of organization is required, I wouldn't go so far as to call it teamwork.

What we're seeing in the TB video here is players having to rush over and revive fallen comrades, trigger environmental weapons, stack conditions, and defeat an enemy while protecting an NPC at the same time. While avoiding traps and keeping themselves alive. As he's saying, it's total chaos and being aware of what's going on is required of everyone.

In other words, you can't be a DPS class and spam rotations through the encounters and get out of the fire once in a while. Everyone needs everyone else and no single person can make or break the experience.

In a Diku-based MMO, once you learn the dance steps (move here, pull adds there, move back here, etc.) and meet the gear checks, the only thing standing in your way are the other members of your group getting it wrong. If they screw up, there's nothing you can do. Tank didn't step out of the fire? Wipe. Priest's internet went out? Wipe.

In GW2, you not only can step up, you must step up and play as a team.

Another thing that's important to note is that because of the way the professions work, they can get away with requiring this level of teamwork very easily. Since no specific profession is required to accomplish anything, as long as your teammates are a high enough level, you can always have the team you want, instead of the team you need. Combining the requirement of teamwork while allowing any team to be effective regardless of character abilities will do wonders for cooperative content.

This is a pretty ridiculous statement.

Yeah, I wouldn't say teamwork is anything new. It's just implemented in a unique way through a combination of things that reach beyond direct combat. I think that's what causes such a different feel overall.

 

[Arken2121]

Noticing the chat log on TB's video:

Nice!!!! This is shaping up better and better. And from the previous post about rubi's reaction to the nda leak, it's understandable and you would think people would have the decency to follow simple rules.

 

[BrettWeir]

Noticing the chat log on TB's video:

What the? Huh? Ok, I'm lost.....

 

[Ashodin]

Nice!!!! This is shaping up better and better. And from the previous post about rubi's reaction to the nda leak, it's understandable and you would think people would have the decency to follow simple rules.

Also:

From GW2Guru forums:

Hey guys, I'm just popping in briefly to make something clear: Sure, most people working on a game dislike leaks, but I am not "a lot of ArenaNet employees." I am one person. More importantly, that particular quote is not from me, on Twitter or anywhere else. Please do not attribute it to me.

So that's that.

What the? Huh? Ok, I'm lost.....

What I gather from that is that the craft is going to be the first of several "advanced" crafts that let you get really good stuff for a LOT of time sunk into it.

It even seems that you can possibly offer food for rewards to certain NPCs, which is really awesome.

Unfortunately, they didn't hover over the bowl of salad so I could see what the buff was/does.

 

[Retro]

There is a large amount of teamwork required in some raids of WoW, you can't say that there isn't. It's formulaic but still teamwork.

I disagree; the fact that everyone has their own very specific role, their own part of the formula to follow, and that some of those roles are unique to each situation (Main Tank, for example) while others are just there to pump damage makes it less of a team effort and more of an elaborate dance.

MMO combat to this point has been very binary; you meet the gear requirements or you don't. You perform the required steps and win or you don't and wipe. If something goes wrong and it's not something you did directly, there's nothing you could have done differently to change that. If you want an analogy, baseball requires that the players pitch and catch, that there is a relationship between, say, the shortstop and the third baseman to recognize the state of the field, pitch the ball to the right place in the right wat and catch it to stop a run. Both guys are involved directly. An MMO is pretty much everyone just pitching all the time and hoping nobody else's aim is off.

Hoping the other guys in your raid don't screw up isn't teamwork. It's synchronized button pushing. To me, you really have to stretch the definition of 'teamwork' to include that kind of gameplay.

 

[Kalnos]

What we're seeing in the TB video here is players having to rush over and revive fallen comrades, trigger environmental weapons, stack conditions, and defeat an enemy while protecting an NPC at the same time. While avoiding traps and keeping themselves alive. As he's saying, it's total chaos and being aware of what's going on is required of everyone.

In GW2, you not only can step up, you must step up and play as a team.

Not understanding the difference honestly. Pretty much all of these mechanics are in WoW outside of the reviving fallen comrades which is because of the breaking of the trinity.

I'm really looking forward to the game but the hyperbole surrounding it is ridiculous.

 

[RepairmanJack]

I think the confusing part is the "Crafting" is the most complicated "Craft". Do they mean cooking?

 

[Arken2121]

It's still nice to see more additions on top of the already awesome features we've seen. Off topic: I just finished Ghosts of Ascalon and I will say, what an excellent read to not only bring you up to speed on the lore, but the story told will give you a better understanding of how Tyria is going to be.

 

[Ashodin]

I think the confusing part is the "Crafting" is the most complicated "Craft". Do they mean cooking?

Ah yes. I am sick, and it's supposed to be "cooking". I wrote it wrong.

 

[RepairmanJack]

I kind of agree that there isn't a huge difference in the teamwork used. I think WoW and other MMO's certainly use teamwork but in WOW it just becomes more formulaic. Once you go through the fight a couple times and learn where to go you just fall asleep and press your buttons. That's where it gets dull and you are just hoping someone in the raid doesn't screw up, but there is still teamwork.

It's still up in there air whether the dungeons in GW2 can become formulaic. As soon as the theorycrafters get ahold of the game they will for sure be looking for patterns and what not, and after a few times through it it could become the same way. The only huge difference I see is people not being able to just sit there and hit buttons and rely on heals and not getting aggro. These are the things I hope will mix up the dungeon fights, but that is still to be seen. If theorycrafters come out and figure out what the fights aggro pattern is or who they go after, this sort of gets broken in a way.

*Disclaimer, I have not watched the TB video yet and look forward to seeing it.

 

[Arken2121]

It'll probably end being that an optimized build will probably be preferred to quickly dispatch the dungeons minions but with movement being so heavily involved, placing will tough if not impossible.

 

[Ashodin]

It'll probably end being that an optimized build will probably be preferred to quickly dispatch the dungeons minions but with movement being so heavily involved, placing will tough if not impossible.

It will have to be switching traits/weapons to adjust to the fight.

Which I will love.

 

[Arken2121]

It will have to be switching traits/weapons to adjust to the fight.

Which I will love.

That's what really bothers me. I've seen almost no videos on people switching their weapons mid-fight when they really should.

 

[GrizzNKev]

MikeB says he's going to focus on getting a whole lot more PvP videos this time around.

Guild Wars 2 Beta Update from MikeB

 

[Arment]

Lots of activity since I went to bed.

Gonna watch that TB video now.

 

[RepairmanJack]

MikeB says he's going to focus on getting a whole lot more PvP videos this time around.

Guild Wars 2 Beta Update from MikeB

Dammit I want less PVP! And this is actually a surprise to me.

 

[Trey]

Has there been any footage of a good player in the CBT, other than that one warrior?

 

[Retro]

Not understanding the difference honestly. Pretty much all of these mechanics are in WoW outside of the reviving fallen comrades which is because of the breaking of the trinity.

The difference is that in WoW, the roles are so rigidly defined that all of those different mechanics, when they are included, are just a new step in the same dance.

In a standard fight, the tank tanks, the healer heals, the DPS damages. Nobody else can be set up to do more than one role because it hurts optimization (for example, you would never have DPS spec for tanking 'just in case' because then they'd have supbar DPS, leading to the enrage timer and a wipe). When they do throw something at you like an environmental weapon, adds, phases, etc., they're only adding new steps to the dance, but everyone still has their role.

- DPS uses an environmental weapon at 50% health (because they're the only ones who can be spared to do it).
- Off tank takes the adds 30 seconds into the fight (and only the per-designated off-tank)
- Hunter uses Tranquilizing shot to end enrage phase.
- Everyone moves over here, then over there.

When those mechanics crop up, they're not as some natural extension of the fight; they're just gimmicks, new steps to the dance, but the roles stay pretty much the same. If you follow the steps, you win. If you don't, you wipe. For example, nobody else helps the tank maintain aggro; the healers keep him alive, but they aren't actively helping him tank. Nobody else affects that role (unless it's moronic DPS getting overzealous).

There's no give-and-take, no back-and-forth, no working as a team. It's just 20 people showing up and having to do their specific steps and not worrying about another soul except if they screw up.

Watch the TB dungeon video; nobody is doing the same thing throughout the entire fight (and when they try, they die). People are constantly running around, dodging, moving in and out, breaking off to heal or rez each other, triggering environmental weapons when they see a debuff has ended. Everyone has to watch everything and everyone to get the job done.

It's chaos, not formula. It's a group of people working as a team, not 20 cogs running a machine.

 

[Mulligan]

holy shit have i missed a lot. nothing from the cash shop leaks really phased me but the orbs leave a bit of a sour taste, not gamebreaking but they shouldn't really be there.

 

[BrettWeir]

I think the confusing part is the "Crafting" is the most complicated "Craft". Do they mean cooking?

This is exactly what I was confused about. Makes sense now. Thanks.

People that come in here saying that they are worried about GW2 because it lacks "Raids" and doubt difficulty REALLY need to watch that TB video. Holy crap. They were mostly Devs, and they were dropping like flies. Took over 4 hours?! And that's just one explorable dungeon.....(pun intended)...Wow.

 

[Ashodin]

That's what really bothers me. I've seen almost no videos on people switching their weapons mid-fight when they really should.

Yup. They really need to learn you can't just stay in one weapon mode all the time.

MikeB says he's going to focus on getting a whole lot more PvP videos this time around.

Guild Wars 2 Beta Update from MikeB

Hmm, I guess? I want to see more nooks and crannies of PVE.

Lots of activity since I went to bed.

Gonna watch that TB video now.

DO IT. Do it. doit.

Dammit I want less PVP! And this is actually a surprise to me.

Yeah.

 

[Retro]

holy shit have i missed a lot. nothing from the cash shop leaks really phased me but the orbs leave a bit of a sour taste, not gamebreaking but they shouldn't really be there.

The only case I can make for ever wanting to use a Resurrection Orb is if I fought my way deep into enemy territory and died, and trying to get back in would require fighting through a ton of respawns. In that case, the only thing a resurrection orb does is saves you is the time fighting back to where you were.

To me, I'd rather face down the challenge and fight my way back through, but I can see how some people might look at the same situation and say "Damnit, I need to go to bed / get ready for work soon, I don't have another hour to spend fighting my way in there". In that case, it's a quality-of-life issue, to save on frustration.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I can't believe how bad the community in GW2Guru has gotten since I used to post there...

Arenanet's decision to make their own forums: Justified

Just hope they moderate the hell out of it. BF3's forums are a crapfest of haters and trolls.

About the cash shop, however...

I FREAKING love it!
I could do without the Res stone and the Megaphone (or at least make the megaphone expensive) but so far being able to buy character slots and Bank slots with in-game currency?! YES!

I'm also curious as to the difference between the types of Transmutation stones....

Remember, for those that aren't reading each and every detail,

You DON'T have to use real money to buy any of this stuff! You can use in-game Gold, and convert it to Gems, which you may use to buy these items. This means that the system is most definitely NOT like F2P cash shops. You never have to spend a dime

I can always count on Arenanet to solve complicated problems with simple solutions. So far, everything they've done has been a "Why hasn't it always been this way" kind of move.

And remember, this is a beta, I'm sure they will adjust pricing and availability accordingly.

I've been playing Guild Wars for a long time. It was roughly ten years ago, I really got into it when a friend got in the first Alpha ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJn9GhF8TI0 ) - The game was relatively peaceful, and not very talked about. In fact, as I recall it, it was not really until e3 2004 that people cared even somewhat. And even then it was all about "no monthly fee".

Discussions on mmorpg.com , ign vault boards and so on, were mostly good. Lots of people from Diablo. Lots of people who just hated monthly fees. I really think thats the dirty sthick of the Guild Wars community. Bitter fans who looked down on games with a subscription fees. My own generalizations was/is that most of them never tried one with a fee, and thus couldn't understand they have/had their place.
Then again, on the other hand, nothing out there is really worth paying for right now (in terms of MMO fees... so i'm conflicted).


When Guild Wars 1 launched in summer 05, people were relatively pissed. Lots of broken hearts. If you dig down in gwonline and guru, you can see it pretty clearly. Guild Wars changed a lot during the end of beta, and lots of people felt it was for the worse. Time passes, and it does well, then it died down in Korea, then it died, and this was while WoW kept growing and growing and growing.

In this sphere of reference there was always an outcry for ArenaNet to add things that were in world of warcraft. It was not just retarded things like "i want jumping because i think this is super mario". It was stuff like mailing, auction houses, roleplaying areas, dueling, taverns and other explicit traditional MMO features.






What nobody really predicted was how big the PvE was going to get in Guild Wars. I THINK it was because the PvP never took off in the way they wanted it. You can look up some of the old friday feature articles were they (Anet) mention hoping that they would get a Starcraft competitive level game. Their observer mode came to left, the community was unfriendly to new pvpers, and perhaps some other stuff. It just never took off.

Instead a lot of people loved the PvE. With titles, heroes and hard mode along with the corner stone of collecting all the skills (though you could also purchase these as micro transactions, mind you) thousands of hours were spent that way, and I think it took everyone by surprise. I remember the first time they showed pre-searing, and everyone was blown away.





I personally think that official forums might end up being a bad idea. I think the nonsense you see at Guru is a small taste of what is going to come on the official forum, and later how that, will resonate into the game.
Policing it will be simply impossible. At best it will concentrate the hatred from different groups;

1) The nostalgia people, who will feel like that Anet dropped the baton, and the Magic:The Gathering and no p2w policy has been lost.

2) The over expecters, who have unreasonable demands. ArenaNet are made of humans, they like money as whatever studio/publisher you love to hate. People seem oblivious to the fact, that there are lots of people working in these companies and the decisions that are made does not have to reflect everyone.

3) The change-the-game-to-something-else crew, who wants the game to be something else. It's not quite as hardcore with linkin park music as when they did their first 40 man raid in wow. and its not as cool as those crazy RvR battles in DAOC, and it does not holster their hipster bones as m59 did when they were true bad asses.




Guild Wars 1 had a model were they could keep things going around. They didnt have any noticeable amount of admins running around, they didnt have to maintain a forum.
now they are doing a massive MMO with large pesistency instead of individual clusters, and now also a forum that will require people to run. That seems counter-intuitive to the day-2-day operations of maintaining the game with as low upkeep as possible.

I always hoped that gamers would just take matters into their own hands and design a better gw2 centric fansite. Fans always seem to think that the developers will hear their threats and demands on the official forums. All it does, is spreading a sour attitude into the game, and that is a shame I think!

All this is just speculation(obviously) But this pattern seems like it repeats itself in every new major MMO release regardless of setting, ip, developer, publisher or release. These types of games really used to be about community building, and it's so weird to me that so many people who play these games are so horrible shitty.

The smug attitude of everyone who talks about this game on youtube, ign, mmorpg, eurogamer.. It's like everywhere I look there is an air of stuck-up self righteousness. like its their religion and everything else is wrong.
I do hope it fixes some of the problems, and I think it will, but nothing is perfect. So why can't people see that. You don't need to comment on someones sexual orientation or ethnicity because they want to play a different game I think.

 

[RepairmanJack]

WoW stuff

Watch the TB dungeon video; nobody is doing the same thing throughout the entire fight (and when they try, they die). People are constantly running around, dodging, moving in and out, breaking off to heal or rez each other, triggering environmental weapons when they see a debuff has ended. Everyone has to watch everything and everyone to get the job done.

It's chaos, not formula. It's a group of people working as a team, not 20 cogs running a machine.

I get what your saying. I just think you are taking too much from this one video. Even if it looks like some complete chaos there has to be some set mechanics to it. You look at a fresh group going into any hard dungeon in any MMO and it can look chaotic. I'm not saying it's going to be shit just like all is shit. I'm just saying we really can't say there isn't going to be a formula to it yet, we just don't know.

But like I said I haven't watched the video yet, and I look dumb trying to argue against it without having seen it.

 

[Kalnos]

It's chaos, not formula. It's a group of people working as a team, not 20 cogs running a machine.

This is where I'm not getting it: Why does something having a general formula mean that there's no teamwork involved? Encounters never go exactly as planned, there's plenty of communication involved and plenty of 'chaotic' decisions were made on the fly (such as who/when to battle res in WoW). This is also assuming that every guild was made up of the same classes and uses the exact same strategy as every other guild, which they don't.

Also, I remember plenty of fights where as a DPS class in WoW I never actually did any damage, there were definitely fights that let you step outside of your role. Things such as spotting crystals on Ossirion, kiting on Razergore, etc.

If they screw up, there's nothing you can do. Tank didn't step out of the fire? Wipe. Priest's internet went out? Wipe.

I also found this a bit strange. If you're playing a team sport such as basketball and one of your players throws the ball out of bounds (i.e. screws up) what can you possibly do? Nothing. That doesn't mean it isn't a team sport, it just means that you adjust accordingly so it doesn't happen again.

Plenty of offenses/defenses in sports are formulaic, does this mean that they don't require teamwork?

 

[Jira]

The difference is that in WoW, the roles are so rigidly defined that all of those mechanics, when they are included, are just a new step in the same dance.

In a standard fight, the tank tanks, the healer heals, the DPS damages. When they do throw something at you like an environmental weapon, adds, phases, etc., they're only adding new steps to the dance, but everyone still has their role.

- DPS uses an environmental weapon at 50% health (because they're the only ones who can be spared to do it).
- Off tank takes the adds 30 seconds into the fight (and only the per-designated off-tank)
- Hunter uses Tranquilizing shot to end enrage phase.
- Everyone moves over here, then over there.

When those mechanics crop up, they're not a natural extension of the fight; they're just gimmicks, new steps to the dance, but the roles stay pretty much the same. If you follow the steps, you win. If you don't, you wipe.

There's no give-and-take, no back-and-forth, no working as a team. It's just 20 people showing up and having to do their specific steps and not worrying about another soul except if they screw up.

Watch the TB dungeon video; nobody is doing the same thing throughout the entire fight (and when they try, they die). People are constantly running around, dodging, moving in and out, breaking off to heal or rez each other, triggering environmental weapons when they see a debuff has ended. Everyone has to watch everything and everyone to get the job done.

It's chaos, not formula. It's a group of people working as a team, not 20 cogs running a machine.

This sums up what I was going to say. Thank you. I've DPS'd WoW raids for 3 years and Tanked them for 3 years and what I've gathered is if you have the gear check and do the dance, you win. Everyone is running parallel with each other towards the same goal, but never actually interacting with one another beyond the healer healing people, but that's required. If I do my job as a tank(which is painfully easy as the skill ceiling is SO low), what everyone else is doing doesn't mean very much to me at all, I keep the mobs on me and move every X seconds or whatever the dance entails. Doesn't matter what the DPS next to me is doing as long as they're pumping out their rotation and doing their dance, doesn't matter what the healer is doing as long as they're healing everyone and doing their dance. Doesn't matter what I'm doing as the tank as long as I got the mobs on me and I'm doing my dance. Same goal, but COMPLETELY disconnected from each other. That's the easiest way to describe it. Even when there's fights where groups have to move as one, the individual is still doing their part of the dance and there's nothing anyone can do to save them if they fail because it's all so binary.