Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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Isn't that what happened though?

Nah. What happened as "He shot a kid he saw as suspicious after confronting him, which he had no authority to, only to find out later he was just headed to his father's home from buying candy and a drink."

Hopefully that didn't sound one sided, doubt it.
 
Also the fact that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and was bleeding from the back of his head shows that more went down than just a kid getting shot over skittles. But people seem to keep forgetting that fact.

I don't think that most people are forgetting that, but still would like a investigation into the death of a person. If all it takes to get off a murder charge in Florida is to lie down in the grass and bash your self in the nose then count me out for going to Florida any time soon.
 
They're just too comfy for that I gotta pop off to the store real quick trip.

I own this hoodie:

sq8Xm.jpg


Am I in danger?
 
I don't think that most people are forgetting that, but still would like a investigation into the death of a person. If all it takes to get off a murder charge in Florida is to lie down in the grass and bash your self in the nose then count me out for going to Florida any time soon.

Even if those injuries are legitimate, they do not per se establish that Zimmerman did not commit non-justifiable homicide.
 
I don't think that most people are forgetting that, but still would like a investigation into the death of a person. If all it takes to get off a murder charge in Florida is to lie down in the grass and bash your self in the nose then count me out for going to Florida any time soon.


Wow did you take pictures of that? I'd like to see them.
 
I never said I thought the shooting was justified. But it's a far cry from "He shot a kid for wearing a hoodie and holding skittles" that was first presented to the public.

My jaw has never dropped in real life from a post before, but you just won that award.

A person defending themselves from a gun toting stranger who was stalking them isn't a far cry from anything. The story since its inception has always included Zimmermans "injuries", its why the police didn't do an investigation at all, remember?

The campaign to illustrate Trayvon as anything but a kid walking, with skittles, that was profiled by an armed man, is just shameful. When there is so much known, it really is mind blowing to see people try so hard to figure out a way to make him the bad guy. To make his reaction to a threat, the problem. All while ignoring his right of free movement and defense.

I pray that none of your family is ever murdered by anyone. Well, no. I pray that none of your family is ever murdered, and that you find out they tried to fight their way out of immediate death. As that fact will surely change your perception of them and the events that led up to their slaying. It will some how change the bottom line of the senseless loss. Tarnish the memory of the person even.

Far cry.

Red alert.

Your mindset is truly vile.

Edit:

Uninstalling Skyrim.
 
The fact that there have been a rash of robberies in the area. At least I have a feeling it was a strong motivation. As someone who has a family I can say one of the biggest fears is having a your wife or kids home when this happens and something happening to them. It may not be justification but it sure is motivation.

As far as the hoodie thing goes, hiding your face makes you look more menacing. Its a fact. Maybe its its the fact that I grew up on the city but hiding your face is a huge red flag.


edit... Also there is no law against following someone.
I'll bite.

How many people who wear hoodies (which is a perfectly acceptable type of clothing) feel the need to cover their heads when it is raining outside?
 
Did I excuse him? I said I understand his motivation. I also am trying to point out that both people misunderstood the others intention.


Also the fact that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and was bleeding from the back of his head shows that more went down than just a kid getting shot over skittles. But people seem to keep forgetting that fact. Yes I know that profiling is what started the events to take place. But it is not why the boy was shot. Something else happened which is all I was responding to. But sure, we should just ignore the facts of this case because you want this to be about a bigger issue of racial profiling problems in this country. Yes it is a problem but there is more to this case than just that.

I see where you're coming from, but people also seem to be forgettingt:

1) Zimmerman was not an official member of the neighborhood watch.

2) Zimmerman has a past history of aggression, including a domestic dispute with his ex-fiance which resulted in a restraining order being placed on him.

3) A history of calling 911 (46 calls during the course of a single year), with more than just a few of those calls specifically targeting young black males or "strange vehicles" driven by "suspicious" looking people.

4) That Zimmerman's 911 call firmly establishes his confrontational mood. Comments like, "These assholes always get away," and "Fucking >blank<" definitely say to me that he wasn't in the mood to rationally, and reasonably talk this situation out with Trayvon.

5) Zimmerman isn't psychic. He couldn't have possibly known about Trayvon's past any more than Trayvon could have known about Zimmerman being a part of the neighborhood watch.

6) Zimmerman didn't listen to the 911 dispatcher when they told him not to follow the "suspicious" person, and to just meet up with the police. Instead, Zimmerman told them to "have them call me, and I'll tell them where I'm at." Why didn't he stay where he was? Why didn't he just wait until the police showed up, and then pointed in the direction the "suspicious" person went when they arrived?

7) By Zimmerman's own admission, the "suspicious" black kid that "looks like he is up to no good. He is on drugs or something," noticed Zimmerman following him in an SUV and started to run away. I don't know about you, but I've been walking down the street at night on my way home, and I've been unnerved by slowmoving vehicles riding up along beside me while I was walking. It's fricking scary. Thinking back to when I was 17, I would have been scared shitless and apprehensive, and maybe even bolted myself. When you are being followed by a complete stranger, it's completely reasonable for you to flee if you are uncomfortable. That's not the fault of the person being followed. Just because Zimmerman's racial bias made him interpret Trayvon's fleeing as a sign of guilt isn't Trayvon's fault, nor is it justification for Zimmerman pursuing him with his firearm.

8) For a man that felt his life was in danger enough to pull out his gun and shoot an unarmed kid, and that his bloody nose and scratched head were enough to warrant pulling out the gun, he refrained from being admitted to the hospital.

9) Neighborhood Watch members are prohibited from carrying firearms. Even so, Zimmerman was the type who felt the need to be armed at all times. This is, in my opinion, a recipe for trouble. Paranoia and firearms simply don't mix, no matter what side of the gun debate you reside on.

10) If it's true that the fatal altercation happened in between houses, that completely refutes Zimmerman's claim that he was "jumped from behind" by Trayvon while going back to his car. It implies that Zimmerman chased Trayvon through the buildings, and an altercation broke out.

11) Trayvon's girlfriend, who was talking to Trayvon at the time of the incident, claims she heard Zimmerman ask him what he "was doing here," then the call abruptly ended. She called him back, but got no answer. This claim also contradicts Zimmerman's claim of being jumped. He can't be jumped if he was talking to Trayvon.

I think there has been plenty of information concerning the beginning and end of the incident. Some of the in between events are muddied, but that's what a proper police investigation would have uncovered, if the Sandford PD wasn't so quick to chalk it up to "self defense," run drug tests on Trayvon (and not he shooter who killed him), and call it an open and shut case, not even bringing in Zimmerman for questioning.

I may be upset by this situation, but I'm certainly not calling for blood. I think there's plenty for us to go on to draw some reasonable, non-emotionally, or even racially motivated conclusions here. It's ultimately not up for us to decide the fate of Zimmerman, but it's pretty clear where his mindset was at that night (looking at his prior interactions with the police).

Again, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think those that are calling foul on Zimmerman are doing so without plenty of information from various sources (one being Zimmerman himself on the 911 call).

What I'm interested in is learning what Trayvon's 911 call contained. Just the fact that he called 911 himself calls into question Zimmerman's "self defense" claim. I can't remember a time when the aggressor, the person that jumps you from behind to get into a fight, would call 911 before hand...
 
I see where you're coming from, but people also seem to be forgettingt:

1) Zimmerman was not an official member of the neighborhood watch.

2) Zimmerman has a past history of aggression, including a domestic dispute with his ex-fiance which resulted in a restraining order being placed on him.

3) A history of calling 911 (46 calls during the course of a single year), with more than just a few of those calls specifically targeting young black males or "strange vehicles" driven by "suspicious" looking people.

4) That Zimmerman's 911 call firmly establishes his confrontational mood. Comments like, "These assholes always get away," and "Fucking >blank<" definitely say to me that he wasn't in the mood to rationally, and reasonably talk this situation out with Trayvon.

5) Zimmerman isn't psychic. He couldn't have possibly known about Trayvon's past any more than Trayvon could have known about Zimmerman being a part of the neighborhood watch.

6) Zimmerman didn't listen to the 911 dispatcher when they told him not to follow the "suspicious" person, and to just meet up with the police. Instead, Zimmerman told them to "have them call me, and I'll tell them where I'm at." Why didn't he stay where he was? Why didn't he just wait until the police showed up, and then pointed in the direction the "suspicious" person went when they arrived?

7) By Zimmerman's own admission, the "suspicious" black kid that "looks like he is up to no good. He is on drugs or something," noticed Zimmerman following him in an SUV and started to run away. I don't know about you, but I've been walking down the street at night on my way home, and I've been unnerved by slowmoving vehicles riding up along beside me while I was walking. It's fricking scary. Thinking back to when I was 17, I would have been scared shitless and apprehensive, and maybe even bolted myself. When you are being followed by a complete stranger, it's completely reasonable for you to flee if you are uncomfortable. That's not the fault of the person being followed. Just because Zimmerman's racial bias made him interpret Trayvon's fleeing as a sign of guilt isn't Trayvon's fault, nor is it justification for Zimmerman pursuing him with his firearm.

8) For a man that felt his life was in danger enough to pull out his gun and shoot an unarmed kid, and that his bloody nose and scratched head were enough to warrant pulling out the gun, he refrained from being admitted to the hospital.

9) Neighborhood Watch members are prohibited from carrying firearms. Even so, Zimmerman was the type who felt the need to be armed at all times. This is, in my opinion, a recipe for trouble. Paranoia and firearms simply don't mix, no matter what side of the gun debate you reside on.

10) If it's true that the fatal altercation happened in between houses, that completely refutes Zimmerman's claim that he was "jumped from behind" by Trayvon while going back to his car. It implies that Zimmerman chased Trayvon through the buildings, and an altercation broke out.

11) Trayvon's girlfriend, who was talking to Trayvon at the time of the incident, claims she heard Zimmerman ask him what he "was doing here," then the call abruptly ended. She called him back, but got no answer. This claim also contradicts Zimmerman's claim of being jumped. He can't be jumped if he was talking to Trayvon.

I think there has been plenty of information concerning the beginning and end of the incident. Some of the in between events are muddied, but that's what a proper police investigation would have uncovered, if the Sandford PD wasn't so quick to chalk it up to "self defense," run drug tests on Trayvon (and not he shooter who killed him), and call it an open and shut case, not even bringing in Zimmerman for questioning.

I may be upset by this situation, but I'm certainly not calling for blood. I think there's plenty for us to go on to draw some reasonable, non-emotionally, or even racially motivated conclusions here. It's ultimately not up for us to decide the fate of Zimmerman, but it's pretty clear where his mindset was at that night (looking at his prior interactions with the police).

Again, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think those that are calling foul on Zimmerman are doing so without plenty of information from various sources (one being Zimmerman himself on the 911 call).

What I'm interested in is learning what Trayvon's 911 call contained. Just the fact that he called 911 himself calls into question Zimmerman's "self defense" claim. I can't remember a time when the aggressor, the person that jumps you from behind to get into a fight, would call 911 before hand...

You've convinced me. Trayvon was responsible. But seriously, Zimmerman will probably get away scot fucking free with murder.
 
Why is it always one of them at a time in this thread?


Why is it always the right wing conservatives while we're at it? Then when people say a lot of them are racist they get up in arms.


This whole... shitty mentality of going to war on a fucking video game board debating with people who are reacting appropriately and logically to the information present is crazy. For what cause? What purpose or agenda is served in trying to play devil's advocate without a leg to stand on? Are we looking to 'change' minds? Someone help me understand.



You've convinced me. Trayvon was responsible. But seriously, Zimmerman will probably get away scot fucking free with murder.

?
 
My jaw has never dropped in real life from a post before, but you just won that award.

A person defending themselves from a gun toting stranger who was stalking them isn't a far cry from anything. The story since its inception has always included Zimmermans "injuries", its why the police didn't do an investigation at all, remember?

No it was not. I was watching and it was not mentioned. I read it here, did my own research and got the whole story.

I said the police should have arrested him and he should be held responsible for bringing deadly force into the situation.

The campaign to illustrate Trayvon as anything but a kid walking, with skittles, that was profiled by an armed man is just shameful. When there is so much known, it really is mind blowing to see people try so hard to figure out a way to make him the bad guy. To make his reaction to a threat, the problem. All while ignoring his right of free movement and defense.

I never once said he was "the bad guy" or even implied it. I NEVER FUCKING SAID HIS REACTION WAS THE PROBLEM! I simply pointed out that it lead to the escalation. That is a fact.

I pray that none of your family is ever murdered by anyone. Well, no. I pray that none of your family is ever murdered, and that you find out they tried to fight their way out of immediate death. As that fact will surely change your perception of them and the events that led up to their slaying. It will some how change the bottom line of the senseless loss. Tarnish the memory of the person even.

I wish the same for you.


Far cry.

Red alert.

Your mindset is truly vile.

Yes trying to examine the situation without the emotional rage is always a horrible thing.


The funny thing is I end up on the opposite side when arguing with those who feel Zimmerman was justified. Hell I even had to deal with someone who said you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
 
I see where you're coming from, but people also seem to be forgettingt:

Sums up everything very nicely Figboy, nice work. Might do good to put it in the OP or something.


Has this guy seriously not been arrested yet? I can't believe this shit. I seriously can't. Why are the cops defending him?
 
Why is it always the right wing conservatives while we're at it? Then when people say a lot of them are racist they get up in arms.


This whole... shitty mentality of going to war on a fucking video game board debating with people who are reacting appropriately and logically to the information present is crazy. For what cause? What purpose or agenda is served in trying to play devil's advocate without a leg to stand on? Are we looking to 'change' minds? Someone help me understand.





?

He's being facetious. lol.

I totally agree about the devil's advocate thing. Sometimes, there simply is no devil's advocate to play.

This situation just seems so clean cut to me:

Guy sees suspicious person. Guy calls police. Police tell guy to not follow suspicious person, and to meet with them instead. Guy disobeys police and follows suspicious person. Guy confronts suspicious person. Fight breaks out. Guy pulls gun and shoots suspicious person dead. Turns out "suspicious person," was a 17 year old boy, walking home from the store with a bag of skittles and a can of iced tea. Guy claims self defense. Police take his word for it, don't admit guy to the hospital, don't take guy in for questioning, but run a drug test on deceased 17 year old.

Parents of deceased 17 year old are furious, and want answers, and the shooter's story questions. Police present troll face.

Parents spread the word of the incident, and here we are.
 
Why is it always the right wing conservatives while we're at it? Then when people say a lot of them are racist they get up in arms.


This whole... shitty mentality of going to war on a fucking video game board debating with people who are reacting appropriately and logically to the information present is crazy. For what cause? What purpose or agenda is served in trying to play devil's advocate without a leg to stand on? Are we looking to 'change' minds? Someone help me understand.

From the conservatives I've talked to they think Democrats are going to use Martin's death to somehow take away their guns.
 
11) Trayvon's girlfriend, who was talking to Trayvon at the time of the incident, claims she heard Zimmerman ask him what he "was doing here," then the call abruptly ended. She called him back, but got no answer. This claim also contradicts Zimmerman's claim of being jumped. He can't be jumped if he was talking to Trayvon.

Good post all around. Also relevant to the moment of confrontation is the claim from, ironically, the conservative Examiner article attempting to justify Zimmerman's homicide, that "In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals."

Which, if true, means that Zimmerman has confronted people in the past. If Zimmerman did approach Martin, and Martin reasonably believed under the circumstances (which includes Zimmerman's following him) that Zimmerman was imminently about to use force against him, he would have been justified under Florida in striking Zimmerman. And if Zimmerman provoked the use of force, he would not be entitled to use lethal force except for under very narrow circumstances that no evidence suggests exists (except Zimmerman's own statement, which is undermined by other known evidence).

Also, it is important to consider that Martin was on his way home. He would know that if he got into a fight, it would be something he would have to explain when he got home. I think it is unlikely he would have resorted to getting into a fist fight on his way home from picking up snacks during the NBA All-Star game unless he were genuinely frightened. Martin's genuine fear is corroborated by his having run from Zimmerman (which is established by Zimmerman's own recorded contemporaneous statement to police during his call).

From the conservatives I've talked to they think Democrats are going to use Martin's death to somehow take away their guns.

It's not a good idea to be influenced by the paranoia of crazy people.
 
From the conservatives I've talked to they think Democrats are going to use Martin's death to somehow take away their guns.

A child's life is taken away and all they can think about is their guns. It's too hard to continue speaking about conservatives without tempting the hammer that bans so I'm just going to say its a damn shame that any group of individuals can politicize a child's death to protect their agenda.

Figboy you basically just laid out the 'preamble' for this thread. Expect your post to be pasted many times in the coming days as new advocates drop in.


Be brave say what you mean?

I'll say it for him:

Closet racists, guised as "Devil's Advocates"
Trolls
right wing conservatives who have no interest in this case beyond answering the call of the republican trumpet
 
Also relevant to the moment of confrontation is the claim from, ironically, the conservative Examiner article attempting to justify Zimmerman's homicide, that "In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals."

Which, if true, means that Zimmerman has confronted people in the past. If Zimmerman did approach Martin, and Martin reasonably believed under the circumstances (which includes Zimmerman's following him) that Zimmerman was imminently about to use force against him, he would have been justified under Florida in striking Zimmerman. And if Zimmerman provoked the use of force, he would not be entitled to use lethal force except for under very narrow circumstances that no evidence suggests exists (except Zimmerman's own statement, which is undermined by other known evidence).

Also, it is important to consider that Martin was on his way home. He would know that if he got into a fight, it would be something he would have to explain when he got home. I think it is unlikely he would have resorted to getting into a fist fight on his way home from picking up snacks during the NBA All-Star game unless he was frightened in good faith. Martin's genuine fear is corroborated by his having ran from Zimmerman (which is established by Zimmerman's own recorded contemporaneous statement to police during his call).



It's not a good idea to be influenced by the paranoia of crazy people.

Good point. I actually forgot that he had a hand in apprehending a criminal. Couple that with "my daddy is a judge," and his attempt to get into the police academy, and it's clear to me that he is desperately trying to find a way to live out that dream of being a "crimefighter." Zimmerman, from what we know of his past, is not a passive person. He is active. I would pretty much guarantee that he would be the one to initiate a confrontation with someone. We don't know enough about Trayvon's disposition, but his lack of any kind of juvenile record outside of a suspension from school for possessing a marijuana baggie isn't enough to go on. Zimmerman, on the other hand, has quite the list of information from which to form some kind of character portrait.
 
From the conservatives I've talked to they think Democrats are going to use Martin's death to somehow take away their guns.

The conservatives I know have been quite furious at the fact that he was just let go, with the weapon/evidence, and just taken at his word. Also, the fact that it took weeks for the police to investigate the killing of a child. Its pretty case by case...I also don't surround myself with assholes.
 
Good point. I actually forgot that he had a hand in apprehending a criminal. Couple that with "my daddy is a judge," and his attempt to get into the police academy, and it's clear to me that he is desperately trying to find a way to live out that dream of being a "crimefighter." Zimmerman, from what we know of his past, is not a passive person. He is active. I would pretty much guarantee that he would be the one to initiate a confrontation with someone.

And a few arrests involving violent behavior.
 
And a few arrests involving violent behavior.

Resisting an officer
Domestic Violence
Resisting an officer with Violence


Dude has a history of violence. He hits women, fights with cops and somehow we're to believe that a skinny 17 year old kid with no record to speak of was the aggressor.

Man if you presented this case as person A) and person B) WITHOUT the already damning facts and just record vs record, no age and no race there'd be no devil's advocate shit to speak of. Think about that for a second. Only when race is interjected does this become a debate of perception, and that's sad.
 
Resisting an officer
Domestic Violence
Resisting an officer with Violence


Dude has a history of violence. He hits women, fights with cops and somehow we're to believe that a skinny 17 year old kid with no record to speak of was the aggressor.

Man if you presented this case as person A) and person B) WITHOUT the already damning facts and just record vs record, no age and no race there'd be no devil's advocate shit to speak of. Think about that for a second. Only when race is interjected does this become a debate of perception, and that's sad.

Said again and again, but if we imagine Zimmerman was black, well naturally he would have served time for those arrests, but other than that, there would be no question he would have been arrested in this case, had blood work done on him, and would be convicted in a trial.
 
Resisting an officer
Domestic Violence
Resisting an officer with Violence


Dude has a history of violence. He hits women, fights with cops and somehow we're to believe that a skinny 17 year old kid with no record to speak of was the aggressor.

Man if you presented this case as person A) and person B) WITHOUT the already damning facts and just record vs record, no age and no race there'd be no devil's advocate shit to speak of. Think about that for a second. Only when race is interjected does this become a debate of perception, and that's sad.

Yup. And the efforts in trying to paint Trayvon as some hoodlum who should have gotten gun downed are deplorable.
 

Most news outlets that finally got around to covering the story, used the initial police report released thursday of -i think- the week of the 5th. www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/08/family-wants-answers-in-fla-teens-death/ --which included quotes about medical treatment at the scene, and his bleeding head..The whole idea that there needs to be a dismantling of Trayvons image as just a kid with candy is still disgusting. As that is what he was, defending himself or not, it doesn't change that reality. He had no weapons or drugs in his system. Perhaps I'm just getting caught up on your far cry. It just changes nothing for me. But it does for you.

Your arguments, are the same ones used by the seemingly bigoted and racists that chime in here, and they are the same arguments that are flooding stormfront.

Its sort of like how hoodies make you look more menacing, using the same arguments as racists and bigots makes you seem so. They've been repeated here over and over.

still vile.
 
Said again and again, but if we imagine Zimmerman was black, well naturally he would have served time for those arrests, but other than that, there would be no question he would have been arrested in this case, had blood work done on him, and would be convicted in a trial.

You could go even further and say if Trayvon was anything but black he would've faced charges by now.

You have a man who's been shown to be violent and paranoid, who without the help of daddy judge wouldn't even be allowed to count firearms in his dreams. A man who pursued an unarmed 17 year old boy after being instructed not to.

Has a history of identifying young black males as suspicious. Carries a gun. Per multiple confirmations via news outlets utters a racial slur right before pursuit. Chases this kid down and has a 100lb advantage in a physical confrontation that by following him, he initiated.

This is what people are racing in here to defend. A woman beating, cop assaulting, paranoid racist who carried out his version of vigilante justice.

These are FACTS. Not anger. Not emotion. So for all of those who continue to demand people look at things objectively, what is your objection to the facts above?
 
I'll say it for him:

Closet racists, guised as "Devil's Advocates"
Trolls
right wing conservatives who have no interest in this case beyond answering the call of the republican trumpet


Yes and people like you are exactly why we will NEVER have a meaningful dialog about race in this country. I disagree with the simplification of this event... I am racist. It is such a easy label to slap on someone. The great part of it is it immediately invalidates all their opinions. So why would anyone bother to dissent? Stupidity. I am fucking stupid for even trying to get into this discussion.

Also while I am a fiscal conservative, I am very liberal in my views on human rights. The cool thing about my life is I have lived and worked in many areas. I lived in the rural midwest where racism was as normal as breathing. I lived in multicultural urban neighborhoods. I have worked in jobs where I was the only one speaking english and been on assembly lines where I was the only non black. The one thing I learned is how narrow minded and ignorant people can be. How most see things from their limited perspective. The funny thing is how they are all oblivious to it.

I have been called vile and a racist for what I said, enjoy your one sided conversation.
 
Yes and people like you are exactly why we will NEVER have a meaningful dialog about race in this country. I disagree with the simplification of this event... I am racist. It is such a easy label to slap on someone. The great part of it is it immediately invalidates all their opinions. So why would anyone bother to dissent? Stupidity. I am fucking stupid for even trying to get into this discussion.

Also while I am a fiscal conservative, I am very liberal in my views on human rights. The cool thing about my life is I have lived and worked in many areas. I lived in the rural midwest where racism was as normal as breathing. I lived in multicultural urban neighborhoods. I have worked in jobs where I was the only one speaking english and been on assembly lines where I was the only non black. The one thing I learned is how narrow minded and ignorant people can be. How most see things from their limited perspective. The funny thing is how they are all oblivious to it.

I have been called vile and a racist for what I said, enjoy your one sided conversation.

Oh don't be so dramatic. I didn't call you a racist, I was elaborating on his post.

The facts are facts though Xenon. My post above is objective in facts relevant to this case.
 
Yes and people like you are exactly why we will NEVER have a meaningful dialog about race in this country. I disagree with the simplification of this event... I am racist. It is such a easy label to slap on someone. The great part of it is it immediately invalidates all their opinions. So why would anyone bother to dissent? Stupidity. I am fucking stupid for even trying to get into this discussion.

Also while I am a fiscal conservative, I am very liberal in my views on human rights. The cool thing about my life is I have lived and worked in many areas. I lived in the rural midwest where racism was as normal as breathing. I lived in multicultural urban neighborhoods. I have worked in jobs where I was the only one speaking english and been on assembly lines where I was the only non black. The one thing I learned is how narrow minded and ignorant people can be. How most see things from their limited perspective. The funny thing is how they are all oblivious to it.

I have been called vile and a racist for what I said, enjoy your one sided conversation.


You aren't vile, Its just your mindset on that specific issue, I'm sure you're a pleasant person outside of that. You have to be, you're a gamer! And you know full well its not a one sided conversation. Like I said, your opinion, as unique as it may be to you, does happen to coincide with previous banned members, who turned out to have other agendas.

Its on you to differentiate yourself from that crowd. You haven't done a good job. Pretending that its just us practicing reverse racism here is nonsense. As there are several non black members that participated in heated arguments over the Zimmerman Defense Force.

Stick around, so you can see the cycle.

I mean read Figboy's post, and Sound's post of the facts of the matter... its just hard to fathom people making their logic leaps in other directions.
 
You could go even further and say if Trayvon was anything but black he would've faced charges by now.

History is one thing, but currently, the vast majority of violent crime directed at black people is perpetrated by other black people.

Both true statements. But empirical evidence reflects that crimes committed against black persons are treated less seriously by the criminal justice system than crimes committed against white persons. In fact, one of the best predictors of whether any given person who commits a homicide will get the death penalty or a less-than-death sentence is whether the victim--not the perpetrator--is black or white. People who kill white persons--regardless of the race of the perpetrator--are more likely to be sentenced to death, whereas people who kill black persons--regardless of the race of the perpetrator--are much less likely to receive death. The point at which this racial discrimination (the valuation of white life over black life) is exercised in capital punishment is the charging decision and decision to seek death by the prosecutor. What we are seeing here is a basically the same phenomena--that the death of a black male isn't that big of a deal.
 
Oh don't be so dramatic. I didn't call you a racist, I was elaborating on his post.

Well then he called me a racist. =\ I also know that many feel that way on this board which I don't agree with but, whatever. I am blasted by everyone I know for not taking sides or trying to make them see the opposing argument when they vent to me. It's my nature. My wife says I absent the day they handed out empathy.


The facts are facts though Xenon. My post above is objective in facts relevant to this case.


I would argue the objective part.
 
You aren't vile, Its just your mindset on that specific issue, I'm sure you're a pleasant person outside of that. You have to be, you're a gamer! And you know full well its not a one sided conversation. Like I said, your opinion, as unique as it may be to you, does happen to coincide with previous banned members, who turned out to have other agendas.

Its on you to differentiate yourself from that crowd. You haven't done a good job. Pretending that its just us practicing reverse racism here is nonsense. As there are several non black members that participated in heated arguments over the Zimmerman Defense Force.

Stick around, so you can see the cycle.

I mean read Figboy's post, and Sound's post of the facts of the matter... its just hard to fathom people making their logic leaps in other directions.
I said Zimmerman needed to held accountable for bringing deadly force into the situation.




When did I ever mention reverse racism? One big problem is I keep having to defend myself against false inferences into my statements. Please show me where I ever said that. It seems like your lumping me in with what you have termed the "Zimmerman defense force" and pinning whatever they said to me as well.
 
Well then he called me a racist. =\ I also know that many feel that way on this board which I don't agree with but, whatever. I am blasted by everyone I know for not taking sides or trying to make them see the opposing argument when they vent to me. It's my nature. My wife says I absent the day they handed out empathy.





I would argue the objective part.

I didn't call you a racist. I'm pointing out that your opinion is shared with many in the racist community. So its a tough battle to separate yourself from that, when we are exposed to amazing levels of holy-shit racism in this thread.
 
I didn't call you a racist. I'm pointing out that your opinion is shared with many in the racist community. So its a tough battle to separate yourself from that, when we are exposed to amazing levels of holy-shit racism in this thread.

Guilty until proven innocent, I love the smell of irony in the morning!
 
I said Zimmerman needed to held accountable for bringing deadly force into the situation.




When did I ever mention reverse racism? One big problem is I keep having to defend myself against false inferences into my statements. Please show me where I ever said that. It seems like your lumping me in with what you have termed the "Zimmerman defense force" and pinning whatever they said to me as well.


You said you were being called a racist, and faulting yourself for participating in the thread in the first place, Its why I said its not a case of reverse racism. You aren't a racist for having a different opinion than me. All I've ever been saying is that the arguments used, are likened to others who drop by, and include some of the same arguments you're making. There have been about 5-6 posters in the past days, all with the same story. So maybe its net-arguing fatigue to not approach every new poster gingerly.

I take issue with your opinion about trayvon fighting back being of issue. But right now, I think its gone away from that.. I am aware of what you said about zimmerman, but others with agendas do the same thing.

Guilty until proven innocent, I love the smell of irony in the morning!


I am trying my hardest here to explain that your opinion is what lumps you into them. Failing to do so, but trying.

Love the smell of irony all you want. Just trying to let you know.
 
Be brave say what you mean?

Trolls? Contrarians? It's like you guys take turns or something. Or are all alts of each other.

Well then he called me a racist. =\ I also know that many feel that way on this board which I don't agree with but, whatever. I am blasted by everyone I know for not taking sides or trying to make them see the opposing argument when they vent to me. It's my nature. My wife says I absent the day they handed out empathy.

I would argue the objective part.

It's called "devil's advocate" and it's annoying to almost everyone because you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, or taking the minority opinion for no reason other than to take the other side. You literally have no good reason to take the position you've taken, since this incident doesn't exist in a vacuum and we know about Zimmerman's past actions. And that's how most of us base our opinions: by looking at facts and forming an opinion around them. What's your opinion based on exactly, other than pure speculation?
 
Trolls? Contrarians? It's like you guys take turns or something. Or are all alts of each other.



It's called "devil's advocate" and it's annoying to almost everyone because you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, or taking the minority opinion for no reason other than to take the other side. You literally have no good reason to take the position you've taken, since this incident doesn't exist in a vacuum and we know about Zimmerman's past actions. And that's how most of us base our opinions: by looking at facts and forming an opinion around them. What's your opinion based on exactly, other than pure speculation?

And that's the thing, none of them have a good reason for playing devils advocate when it boils down to it.
 
Both true statements. But empirical evidence reflects that crimes committed against black persons are treated less seriously by the criminal justice system than crimes committed against white persons. In fact, one of the best predictors of whether any given person who commits a homicide will get the death penalty or a less-than-death sentence is whether the victim--not the perpetrator--is black or white. People who kill white persons--regardless of the race of the perpetrator--are more likely to be sentenced to death, whereas people who kill black persons--regardless of the race of the perpetrator--are much less likely to receive death. The point at which this racial discrimination (the valuation of white life over black life) is exercised in capital punishment is the charging decision and decision to seek death by the prosecutor. What we are seeing here is a basically the same phenomena--that the death of a black male isn't that big of a deal.

That information seems irrelevant to your conclusion. I'm guessing white people are more likely to kill white people. Black people are more likely to kill black people. You do say regardless of the perpetraters race, but i can't tell if that information is simply lumped together or true for all races.
 
I take issue with your opinion about trayvon fighting back being of issue. But right now, I think its gone away from that.. I am aware of what you said about zimmerman, but others with agendas do the same thing.

Considering no one knows who actually started the physical contact between the two. Or if there even was any. Your statement is loaded with assumptions.

Are you seriously saying that IF Martin starting hitting Zimmerman first it's irrelevant?
 
And that's the thing, none of them have a good reason for playing devils advocate when it boils down to it.


I am not playing devils advocate. I was just arguing against the simplification of the event. I am not arguing for Zimmerman. I am just arguing the facts given, or the lack of them.
 
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