bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I heard at most 170. So he's still a skinny ass teenager regardless.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
- Start date
- Status
I heard at most 170. So he's still a skinny ass teenager regardless.
Dreams-Visions
Member
You're right. He's wrong.
Well, he's given two different stories to the police that we know about. One is that he he was approached and punched in the face, the other has him being jumped from behind.
Both are still kind of ridiculous - although knowing his new weight, there is a higher chance of him getting whooped.
But there is still the problem where he has given two different stories. How it would be very hard to be jumped/surprised in his location. How He doesn't have the wounds that fall in line with his story.
Regardless, definitely enough for an arrest, and hopefully more evidence in general can be drawn. I still want to know if they can do some magic and match the audio clip with the victim and the defendant's voice.
ViperVisor
Member
You can access your gun and fire it during an altercation in public but why not use that arm to fight off your opponent?
I see how you can escalate to deadly force if a person is an invader certainly or you are in a somewhat closed environment.
On the surface it looks like Zimmerman definitely stepped over the line of reasonable self defense that is why charges should of been brought to have a real investigation.
I see how you can escalate to deadly force if a person is an invader certainly or you are in a somewhat closed environment.
On the surface it looks like Zimmerman definitely stepped over the line of reasonable self defense that is why charges should of been brought to have a real investigation.
Baconsammy
Banned
Should tell Nancy Grace. She lists Trayvon at 160. Zimmerman at 170. Regardless, the difference in height greatly favored Trayvon and the weight difference was far less than originally reported. The claim that Trayvon couldnt have attacked Zimmerman to the ground is garbage now.
For a bit of levity, here's a video of Jon Stewart making fun of Lawerence O'Donnell for interviewing a chair that Zimmerman's lawyer at one point was sitting in. Yep, that really happened.
or a southern bigot. The epithet is still used today, as antiquated as you might like to believe.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Nancy Grace gets a lot of shit wrong. Why would we be surprised here?
BronsonLee
Member
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Found the call:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk
Listened to 1.50-1.55 multiple times and I think it's pretty clear that he said "Fucking Coons".
Also, he responds with an "okay" when the dispatched tells him that he doesn't need to follow Trayvon, but you still hear him running at the same pace (and panting, but that could just be from the running/jogging he did up to that point).
Regarding the weight:
The 160 number is from the same police that leaked the little tidbit about Trayvon's past marijuana use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk
Listened to 1.50-1.55 multiple times and I think it's pretty clear that he said "Fucking Coons".
Also, he responds with an "okay" when the dispatched tells him that he doesn't need to follow Trayvon, but you still hear him running at the same pace (and panting, but that could just be from the running/jogging he did up to that point).
Regarding the weight:
The 160 number is from the same police that leaked the little tidbit about Trayvon's past marijuana use.
Baconsammy
Banned
But she's not wrong. Trayvon's weight is listed as 160. His height at 6 feet tall. Zimmerman's weight is reported to now be 170 and his height is still 5'9. In a professional fight, those stats would favor Trayvon.
The weight for Trayvon isn't coming from Nancy. She's getting it from the police report which states "160".
Ever lived in South Florida? There's nothing "southern" about it except for it's geographical position. It might as well be called New York-South or Cuba-West.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
The difference in height just tells me Trayvon was skinny ass kid, to be honest. Dude's weren't boxing in a ring. The weight difference matters more and actually favors Zimmerman since he's shorter and beefier with a lower center of gravity and could probably just fling Trayvon off him being a grown ass man and all. But hey, we're both just bullshitting at this point.
Baconsammy
Banned
Reach favors Trayvon, but yeah it's all bullshitting for sure. None of us know if Trayvon could fight or not, or if Zimmerman was a giant pussy.
Here's the police report, btw. Trayvon's weight is listed.
Uh, we know he shot the boy, but that doesn't make him guilty of a crime. Also, your list of evidence against Zimmerman, well, it's not evidence. Have you ever heard of ''innocent until PROVEN guilty''. We have nothing resembling proof beyond the shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of a crime.
I can't listen to the interview atm, but didn't his friend say that was what zimmerman said that he said?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
As a New York kid who grew up and learned racism in the Redlands (you know, West Cuba)...nevermind. Anecdotal.
Aaronology
Member
The burden of proof is on Zimmerman to prove he isn't guilty of murder given that he's claimed self defense. So far, he hasn't done a very good job.
Baconsammy
Banned
One would assume that since he hasn't been arrested that he's done quite a good job of proving it.
Which interview? I'm not sure I've heard one yet in which Martin claims to have asked Zimmerman what that word was. I'd like to hear it if it exists though. Do you know which show it was on?
You're giving too much credit to some imaginary lines. Plenty of people in Florida have a southern twang, if you go as far as Gainsville Florida you'll find a lot of southern culture. That isn't necesarilly indicative of anything, but it's not unbelievable that some racists in Florida (much less central florda)use the word 'coon'.
Not true in Florida.
Megidolaon
Member
Yeah Oliver didnt explain himself very well on the coon thing. Personally I heard punks. His point was that people hear different things and theres no concensus on there being a racial slur.
TheNatural
My Member!
Yeah it sounds like he said that, first time I've heard it. The only thing I could possibly see as him saying is "fucking cold" getting out of his car. But he's in Florida so that doesn't make sense.
Baconsammy
Banned
My wife listened to it just now without knowing pretty much anything about the content of that call. She heard "fucking cones", thinking that he was running and tripped over a traffic cone. So now when I listen I hear that. In other words, they're going to need an expert if that becomes a pivotal bit of info, which I doubt it will.
Aaronology
Member
One would assume from the Chief stepping down, the FBI and DoJ getting involved, the State Attorney recusing himself, the national outcry, and the department's past that Zimmerman not being arrested proves little beyond SPD's incompetence and corruption. You're welcome to start defending them but I think that's a downhill battle, Sammy.
So why is this such a huge deal? Seems like a racist vigilante neighborhood watch guy with delusions of grandeur , decided he wanted to play cop by stalking a kid. Kid obviously gets scared probably threw some punches thinking the guy was going to hurt him (he should have too the guy was following him). Then the guy realizes he is now in danger, because of the mess he got himself into shoots the kid. This seems like standard crime...the ONLY thing I see being weird with the story is that the guy wasnt immediately thrown in prison. Is that what everyone is mad about? Guy should obviously go to prison, but why is this turning into a huge racial tension debate?
TheNatural
My Member!
Try reading a news story. The guy hasn't been arrested or charged with anything. Have you been living in a cave?
The issue is that he was never charged/arrested for anything, yes.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Don't disagree. But he also, for done odd reason, explained how "goon" is a term if endearment and "coonass" is a popularly used term. Why he brought that up at all, who knows...
Baconsammy
Banned
I lived in South Florida. There's nothing Southern about it except the heat. There's no pockets of the old South etc. No southern accents etc. Panhandle? Yep for sure, that's the South. Orlando on down may as well be Northern.
I just read a news story that said the detective wanted to have Zimmerman arrested because he didn't believe the story. It was the State Atty who told them to wait until he trialed to assemble a grand jury. I'll see if I can refind the link.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-case-polic_n_1384301.html
also..I hate to believe something found in a comment section, but does Zimmerman even live in that community? Or is that just more chaff from that fake address business?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-case-polic_n_1384301.html
also..I hate to believe something found in a comment section, but does Zimmerman even live in that community? Or is that just more chaff from that fake address business?
oh I have no idea, I just always assumed that the interview that he gave talking about zimmerman saying goons, were actually zimmermans words, and he was just relaying it on the interview since zimmerman obviously can't do it himself. I just wanted to know if zimmermans friend was just saying what he thinks zimmerman said or if it was what zimmerman told him that he said.
Tragic story thats getting so out of hand now.
You got Senior Citizens afraid for their life because so called Net Detectives using celebrities to spam their address as the supposed home of zimmerman when its not.
Its becoming nothing more than a political game now rather than a serious focus on someones lost life
You got Senior Citizens afraid for their life because so called Net Detectives using celebrities to spam their address as the supposed home of zimmerman when its not.
Its becoming nothing more than a political game now rather than a serious focus on someones lost life
Baconsammy
Banned
Why would I defend him? You don't know the facts. I dont know the facts. I'm hoping to find them out as much as everyone else is. One thing that's been very consistent is that the facts we've thought were true are more and more turning out to be false. Some of which favors Zimmerman, some hurts. I'm inclined to believe that its all his fault since I'm against people carrying concealed weapons, racially profiling someone, and then stalking them.
Zoe
Member
Based on the 911 calls, it seems like he might "patrol" the whole neighborhood, not just that specific community. The majority of the calls are within the community though.
He starts to give his address on the call, but he stops because he thinks Martin is still around and doesn't want him to hear it.
Why is the burden of proof on him? He allegedly (by many of you and the media) committed a crime, so the burden of proof is on whoever, if anyone, attempts to prosecute him.
empty vessel
Member
I don't think that's why. I think it's because he just lost sight of him and became anxious about wasting time giving the address out.
Absolutely agreed. But if he concedes having committed the homicide at trial, it may be his burden to prove justification under Florida's self-defense law. (I never did finally determine whose burden that is under Florida law, but in most states the burden is on the defendant.)
Zoe
Member
But it took him more time to say he doesn't want to give it out than to finish his address.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Has it been confirmed that Trayvon had been shot in the chest?
If this goes to trial, how much of an affect would this have on the integrity on the physical evidence, shot trajectory, etc?
If this goes to trial, how much of an affect would this have on the integrity on the physical evidence, shot trajectory, etc?
In some states, when the defendant asserts self defense (or other affirmative defenses) he bears the burden of proof. But not in Florida and many other states including my own.
We'll see if it ever gets to trial. If so, I believe that you are both indeed correct.
Dude Abides
Banned
Do you know where that is in the Florida code? I was looking for it a few days ago but couldn't find it.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I did some noise removal and analysis of the 911 recording, and I must admit that I was wrong in believing that he clearly said "Fucking coons" - it could be "Fucking punks" as well.
George-Zimmerman-Trayvon-Martin-911-Call_www.savevid.com_ - 0.04MB
I'm not an expert on the dialect either, so where I hear a sharp sound in the beginning and a soft vowel in the middle I interpret them as "C" and "oo".
George-Zimmerman-Trayvon-Martin-911-Call_www.savevid.com_ - 0.04MB
I'm not an expert on the dialect either, so where I hear a sharp sound in the beginning and a soft vowel in the middle I interpret them as "C" and "oo".
I don't, but given the way the jury instructions read, the prosecution would have to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt.
Big Baybee
Member
I went to that page and got a pop-up saying that the self-defense part is under review due to "recent legislation or case law". (based on some case in 2010.)
Regarding these two:
3.6(f) Justifiable Use of Deadly Force
3.6(g) Justifiable Use of Nondeadly Force
That case didn't seem to have anything to do with the burden of proof. The prosecutor made a really bizarre argument that the defendant couldn't claim self defense because he hadn't injured the victim.
MightyHealthy
Banned
There is also what sounds like three raps/knocks...one of them being right when he says the word in question.
I wonder what it would sound like with those removed.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
File was removed it seems.
New link: Eki - 0.04MB
I'll give that a go, but they're right on top of his voice so that will be a bit tricky.
I'm not trying to defend the guy but is it possible that during his street chase of the kid he triped or almost lost balance on some cones on the street? You know, those orange construction cones?
I'm just saying.
- Status