BruiserBear
Banned
That pic I posted was not from ABC. It was from the Daily Caller.
Also, why would you lol at someone "enhancing" the image? What are you suggesting was lol worthy there?
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
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That pic I posted was not from ABC. It was from the Daily Caller.
Also, why would you lol at someone "enhancing" the image? What are you suggesting was lol worthy there?
Bumblebeetuna
Banned
Yep. For someone who claims he had to kill the kid out of fear for his own life, there had better be some pretty clear and pretty gruesome remnants of this beating he supposedly took. But there aren't any. He doesn't even look like he's been in a fight. No blood on his clothes, no marks on his face or head.
It paints an even worse picture for the police imho. How could they possible arrive on a scene where a grown man shot a kid dead and is pleading self defense when he looks fine, and still let him go? It just adds more fuel to the cover up fire.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5OiLQjUcOU
For a non ABC logo video, this is the original pre-watermark version.
Here are a few random shots of the back of his head, the one on the bottom right is me trying to illustrate that the back of his head has a 'bump' that casts shadows, you can see it better in motion from 1min onwards.
To me the supposed "laceration" looks almost like when you get a cut that low and you have that portion of where your hair normally grows (in spanish we call it a remolina) and its a little thicker there unless you buzz it real good. So Zimmerman has a shitty barber as well as a shitty alibi.
Yes. Dateline had a story on this on Sunday. Go to about 2:20 in. Not sure what the debate is even about now. Her story in addition to Trayvon's girlfriend provide all the detail needed to know that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and initiated the struggle. Whether or not Zimmerman got injured is a moot point.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/#46874941
Roger Danish
Member
Maybe because of who's doing the supposed "enhancing?" Check you sources.
Neuromancer
Member
I bet he doesn't get charged with anything. I just don't think there is enough information about what actually happened when the two got physical.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Even his demeanor. That is one calm, cool and collected motherfucker right there....who just suffered a near-death beating....and then killed a young kid....
He hopped out that police car like a fuckin champ.
Yeah, are the autopsy reports public when done or are they locked away for trial?
He needs to get charged with manslaughter at bare minimum, and I think now that he is in the national spot light he will. There is PLENTY of evidence he instigated the conflict and the result is a dead unarmed teenager, those facts are all that is needed to convict him of Manslaughter charges and the evidence comes from Zimmerman's own recorded actions. At that point it doesn't matter what really happened between the instigation and the result, his self defense claim would likely get thrown out if brought before a trial, at least the self defense claim he made initially.
JCreasy
Member
The entirety of the security camera footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQUgm4&feature=youtu.be
But we've already seen the best angles available, FYI
But we've already seen the best angles available, FYI
Vicetrailia
Banned
Considering his fathers and even his own ties with the police, he was right at home.
BruiserBear
Banned
Thank you very much. Those ladies don't seem to state that they saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon when the screaming was heard though. They seem to have walked upon them after the shot rang out.
They also suggest Trayvon was face down.
Trayvon was shot in the front of his chest, right?
Oh, so because the guys running the site are conservatives, we should ignore the photo evidence? I see.
I just find it funny that you gave credence to an obviously extremely bias source, but as soon as I talk about seeing something different you start to get all doubty mcdoubterson. What do you think about my photo/video? Did you watch from 55sec onward? If you did you'd see very clearly that it was just a cast shadow.
empty vessel
Member
There is enough information, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean he will be charged. The State's attorney has obviously taken a narrow interpretation of the law (or, put differently, a broad interpretation of self-defense). At this stage, the prosecution (and grand jury) have wide discretion to go forward or not based, ultimately, on their own interpretation of law. Charging decisions are a point of criticism within the criminal justice system because of the wide discretion that prosecutors and others have in determining whether a criminal prosecution will occur (and, if so, what crime will be charged).
I do not know Florida case law, but the statute is written such that it is possible to conclude that extant evidence gives probable cause to believe Zimmerman provoked any violence used against him, which would in turn impose a very high burden on him to justify using lethal force. But if prosecutors (or grand jurors at the instruction of prosecutors) take a narrow view of what constitutes provocation of violence, then they may well refuse to indict.
So there is still a lot of politics/ideology at work in charging decisions.
Seriously. I wish people would just talk staight facts and not be all biased
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I love how people are going CSI on the footage.
For that matter, I love how so many unrelated people are actually giving a crap and studying this case real close - it shows that we do care about justice and try our best to ensure that justice is done.
I live an ocean away but still feel like i have a stake in this whole deal.
For that matter, I love how so many unrelated people are actually giving a crap and studying this case real close - it shows that we do care about justice and try our best to ensure that justice is done.
I live an ocean away but still feel like i have a stake in this whole deal.
That's what he's doing. No bias.
MightyHealthy
Banned
5:11-5:20 is worth a look, imho.
BruiserBear
Banned
Do you have a single reason to suggest that "enhanced" photo isn't real? That's the only question that needs to be answered. Your suggestion that the Daily Caller is an "extremely bias source" is also laughable. Do you have a single shred of evidence to suggest they are bias one way or another in this case? I'm not even a regular reader of the site, but based purely off that article, I see nothing I would call suspect.
This is one of those situations where people like yourself just decide that if you don't tow the fucking line, and agree with every crazy thing thrown out there regarding this case and Zimmerman's guilt, you're a bad guy. I reject that notion.
I want to know what happened in this case as much as anyone, but it's difficult putting up with the conspiracy theories, and incorrect information being thrown around here.
Yes, I watched the video link you provided, and I see an officer checking out the back of his head. I see something on the back of his head, and then I see a police report suggesting he had a wound on the back of his head.
That leads me, using my rational thinking, to think there was some sort of wound on the back of his head. Does that wound make me believe he had the right to kill Trayvon Martin? Hell no. But does that mean the wound doesn't exist? Hell no.
Facts are facts, and I prefer to seek them out. You can go on about whatever you wish, but I'm going to call people out when they begin floating wild theories without evidence, and suggesting things that have several things pointing to their existence, do not in fact exist.
i don't think you should be focusing on the back of zimmerman's head till we see what it looks like as he may have some kind of skin flap on the back like many people do that cast a shadow. his face looking absolutely clean with no injuries is what you should be focusing on.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I tell you one thing for sure, its hard for people to remain in the "middle" with this subject. Both sides accuse the other of bullshit. Both are sick of hearing people spewing non-fact, as if ANYONE really has them. I don't understand why half the people here are posting, considering they are tired of the subject. I don't understand why if there is an inkling of descent, you're a racist. We need to ease up a bit, y'all.
What I want to know from all of the Zimmerman defenders out there is this. Were you as skeptical about OJ Simpson's guilt as you are about Zimmerman's? There's more evidence here that supports Zimmerman's guilt than there was for OJ Simpson. Not trying to derail this into an OJ Simpson thread, but it seems like a lot of people are siding with (or being more sympathetic towards) Zimmerman's side of the story when there are so many reasons to believe that he's lying.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
WHOOSH!!!
Angry Fork
Member
I don't see any injury. The white part is the light reflecting on his head and it gives the impression there's a lump. Watch the original video in full screen, there's nothing there but the reflection. Like someone else said his face should've been 'bruised, bloodied' anyway and it's all clean.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Unless I remember wrong, you get charged before the Grand Jury.
samus i am
Member
The enhanced photo is just an increase in sharpness - it makes everything LESS clear not more clear. I gave you plenty of evidence that shows that it is exactly what it is, a shadow - just look at the video 55sec onward and it's as clear as day.
Look at all their articles regarding the Zimmerman case and the editorial spin. Simple - they are obviously leaning in one direction. Also, it's essentially a republican news site, and conservatives seem to be almost uniformly taking this case as Anti-Martin Pro-Guns.
No, I am not saying tow the line - Heck I am not towing the line. There is a lot of talk about racism, and I don't think that really is relevant, as Zimmerman's racism is not nearly as obvious as something like his lack of injuries.
You don't even have to say he's guilty, I am not saying that at all - but looking at this obviously poorly chosen still of a video, and giving it credence while denouncing all other media channels, and then pointedly ignoring my counter argument... that's something I am calling you out on.
The officer looks for a second and ignores it - there was nothing of significance there. What do you see on the back of his head? Is it that same silly still? The police report also claims he had a bloody broken nose, that's not visible whatsoever.
If there is a wound on the back of his head, it is inconsequential enough to not be treated seriously - I wouldn't expect anything more than a cosmetic scratch. If Paramedics on the scene said he didn't need to go to the hospital with a head wound (a fucking head wound where he claims he was bashed on the sidewalk repeatedly) what does that tell you about the veracity of his claims, especially juxtaposed with a video in which to show any semblance of a wound people have to resort to stills of shadow drops?
If you want to argue your points, be prepared to be met with criticisms - I am not saying "You're dumb" and leaving it at that, I am addressing your arguments individually, and you seem to not be too happy with what I am saying.
You would think to that if there was blood involved, the officers should be using protective gloves to handle him, right? I work in a shitty office and even I have to watch a video once a year stating that if you have to handle anything involving blood, to wear gloves to cover their asses from god knows what.
TheNatural
My Member!
So much minutia about he injuries, where who was where, if the guy is a racist or not. All of it is important background information, but to me it just comes down to the simple fact that someone not doing anything was stalked and confronted by someone else causing the altercation, where the victim even said over the phone he was being stalked and afraid, and then that person ended it by putting a bullet through the kid's chest ending his life.
To me, that's all I need to know. What Zimmerman did is no different than what someone would do if they wanted to just flat out rob and murder someone, the starting and end result was the same. Race, phone calls, character attacking, and blurry pictures of injuries are all semantic bullshit. Sure, that shit makes for great media, but what people are pissed about is that someone can come up to a kid not doing anything and confront them and making yourself a threat, and then put a bullet in them. That's not even manslaughter, that's just fucking murder.
Hopefully the grand jury sees it the same way.
To me, that's all I need to know. What Zimmerman did is no different than what someone would do if they wanted to just flat out rob and murder someone, the starting and end result was the same. Race, phone calls, character attacking, and blurry pictures of injuries are all semantic bullshit. Sure, that shit makes for great media, but what people are pissed about is that someone can come up to a kid not doing anything and confront them and making yourself a threat, and then put a bullet in them. That's not even manslaughter, that's just fucking murder.
Hopefully the grand jury sees it the same way.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Of course the "enhanced" photo isn't real. It's been "enhanced."
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Yup.
Pretty much this. Fuck all the racism bullshit.
That's how I tried explaining it to someone the other day, but people just can't see around certain issues.
If you were walking home and some older man was creeping along behind you and then came up and confronted you, what would you have done? Really. There's no doubt in my mind I too would have tried to fight Zimmerman.
BruiserBear
Banned
They did not just increase the sharpness. They also increased the contrast, which helped to highlight what was there.
At the end of the day, the video is not of a good enough quality for me to be certain what I'm looking at. BUT, based on the fact that a random cop chose to inspect the back of his head, and based on the fact that I can see something there, in the video, and in that still, and then the police report said a wound existed, I'm inclined to believe a wound existed.
Well, none of that concerns me, because I'm only concerned with that one article we're discussing on the Daily Caller, and nothing in that article suggests to me there is something untrustworthy about their photo analysis.
I did not call out "other media channels". I said ABC shouldn't have stated categorically that there was "no blood, no bruises". It would have been accurate to say "no obvious blood or bruises"
Also, have you ever seen someone after getting punched in the face? I have, and there is rarely a black eye bruise there an hour later. It might take hours or more to have something like that be completely visible.
Again, this video does tell us some things. George Zimmerman sustained no serious injuries, and was clearly not badly hurt in this fight, but that does not mean he sustained NO injuries, and had NO bruises. That's all I'm saying.
Even with some injuries, and some bruises, I still think he's guilty of a crime for killing Trayvon.
Broken noses also are not always obvious. You can have a broken nose and look basically normal. So again, he may have had a broken nose, but it wasn't a severe one. The video only lets us know it wasn't a severely broken nose. Not that there was no broken nose.
You're right, from what we see in that video, he does not appear to have wounds compatible with having his head repeatedly bashed into the sidewalk. As I've said, I don't believe he had justification to kill Treyvon.
I agree about the video not showing anything but a lump on the back of his apparently lumpy head. It's just odd because the police report by one of the officers states he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head. So either the officer lied, or was possibly mistaking Martin's blood for Zimmermans, or Zimmerman just got cleaned up really well when they treated him in the back of the squad car and it's not picked up on video.
http://i.imgur.com/aFce6.jpg
You know it's still not clear what happened, all we know for certain, because we have all heard the 911 call is that Zimmerman called in a suspicious person and exited his vehicle against the advice of the 911 dispatcher. Other than that it is all he said she said in the media.
If it did intact happen that Zimmerman followed Martin and eventually caught up and confronted him, than I would agree he is guilty of manslaughter no matter who started the physical assault.
If Zimmerman exited his vehicle, looked around and was then confronted and assaulted by Martin I would agree with defense. That side of the story is looking more and more less likely though.
http://i.imgur.com/aFce6.jpg
You know it's still not clear what happened, all we know for certain, because we have all heard the 911 call is that Zimmerman called in a suspicious person and exited his vehicle against the advice of the 911 dispatcher. Other than that it is all he said she said in the media.
If it did intact happen that Zimmerman followed Martin and eventually caught up and confronted him, than I would agree he is guilty of manslaughter no matter who started the physical assault.
If Zimmerman exited his vehicle, looked around and was then confronted and assaulted by Martin I would agree with defense. That side of the story is looking more and more less likely though.
I think the main issue is that what you said apparently looks like a bloody laceration, does not in fact look like a bloody laceration. It disappears in most angles and anyway does not look bloody.
The closest thing to bloody marks I could see was when he exits the blue room, the back of his head looks red. But the picture quality is really bad and it could be blurry interlacing since apparently the footage was taken offscreen from CRTs.
I don't think the paramedics will just let you go if you are bleeding. That would be bad first aid and the police probably wouldn't want to take him in that state. However I would expect them to bandage anything that looked like an open wound.
JCreasy
Member
Was Martin where he was supposed to be at the time? Yes, walking home.
Was he doing anything illegal at the time? No, just walking home.
Did he NOT DESERVE to be left ALONE!?
Why in the hell is he DEAD?
What would motivate him to seek out a life and death confrontation for NO REASON AT ALL?
This is the world that they invite you to occupy! A 17 year old boy, who wasn't carrying a GUN or a KNIFLE, but ICED TEA and SKITTLES, decides to assault a COMPLETE STRANGER after having RUN AWAY from that stranger! This is the contrived bullshit Zimmerman and his defenders think we're stupid enough to swallow. THIS IS WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE! AND THEY ARE HOPING YOU WILL BE MORE LIKELY TO BELIEVE IT BECAUSE TREYVON MARTIN WAS BLACK!
Zimmerman's dad really fucked up. Why in the HELL would Treyvon Martin want Zimmerman DEAD? WHY!?
Was he doing anything illegal at the time? No, just walking home.
Did he NOT DESERVE to be left ALONE!?
Why in the hell is he DEAD?
What would motivate him to seek out a life and death confrontation for NO REASON AT ALL?
This is the world that they invite you to occupy! A 17 year old boy, who wasn't carrying a GUN or a KNIFLE, but ICED TEA and SKITTLES, decides to assault a COMPLETE STRANGER after having RUN AWAY from that stranger! This is the contrived bullshit Zimmerman and his defenders think we're stupid enough to swallow. THIS IS WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE! AND THEY ARE HOPING YOU WILL BE MORE LIKELY TO BELIEVE IT BECAUSE TREYVON MARTIN WAS BLACK!
Zimmerman's dad really fucked up. Why in the HELL would Treyvon Martin want Zimmerman DEAD? WHY!?
BruiserBear
Banned
Reading that officer's report was really interesting.
The first thing that I noted was that the officer said Zimmerman's back was wet and had grass on it. Indicating he was clearly on his back. He also notes he had his red jacket on.
One of the 911 calls mentions someone wearing a "white shirt" being on top of the other person, and Treyvon was wearing a grey hoodie.
Zimmerman also told the officer on the scene that "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me".
When you piece that together, you do get the impression Zimmerman was at least at some point on his back, and taking a beating. It's also interesting that he mentions immediately that he was yelling for help. Of course he could have made that up, but that is pretty quick thinking if that's the case. The fact that he immediately mentions that makes me wonder if that was really him yelling all that time.
Again, none of this means I think Zimmerman was justified in shooting Treyvon. I'm merely piecing things together, and I find it interesting trying to put this puzzle back together. Most people have assumed that was Treyvon yelling on that 911 call, but it seems possible it was really Zimmerman.
Huh?
Is this a misunderstanding of my statement?
I'm waiting to see what reliable evidence comes out, not squinty eyed videos or garbled sound.
Zimmerman is guilty of shooting Trayvon, but under Florida law certain circumstances - which have yet to be proven/disproven in this case - allow a person to defend themselves with deadly force.
We don't know what happened exactly leading up to the initiated altercation (who attacked who) and whether Stand Your Ground would apply to those circumstances leading up to the shooting (did Zimmerman walk away and was attacked by Trayvon or did Zimmerman attack Trayvon and then shoot him).
This is what I said yesterday. A kid with no record of violence would suddenly confront a strange man that's been following him and decides that he will KILL this man with his BARE HANDS, but before that says, "You're going to die now" and then says, "You got me" once shot. This is what they want you to believe. I can't believe people would even think to defend this bullshit.
LOL is this for real? this is so cartoony.
Your only taking pieces from one side though. When the other side has numerous more pieces that paint a different description
It is only one side, but it gives a little insight to what may have occurred at the scene. It's also a report coming from an unbiased source describing what was found at the scene and details the officer noticed before everything came out via the media.
Unfortunately, yes. The first statement was what Zimmerman's father said that Trayvon told his son and the second statement is what Trayvon's father was told that he said by the police.
Yes it gives us insight from one side but to claim te police report is unbiased?? Lol. After everything they have screwed up they would be the last ones I would trust
I thought it came out that they did arrest the guy (as seen in that video) but an attorney requested they let him go? If true the police have nothing to do with the attorney (District Attorney or something, can't remember).
Wasn't Zimmerman in handcuffs in that video released yesterday?
EDIT: Well I guess the article below partially debunks what I thought in this post.
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