So can Zuko and Aang.
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Legend of Korra |OT| - Saturday Mornings Just Got Better
- Thread starter Wiseblade
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So can Zuko and Aang.
CornBurrito
Member
Haha, I actually sort of like the line. I mean, it is completely cringe-worthy and terrible, but it was just awkward enough to be something Zuko would actually try.
Also, Iroh probably wasn't on Ozai's level, but even he wasn't sure if he could take his brother down or not, which means that they were probably on a similar playing field strength-wise.
Either way, it is really difficult to actually discuss power levels in Avatar, as their are two clear tiers: "badasses" and "everyone else". "Badasses" rarely outclass other "badasses" in 1v1 battle, unless it's part of the latter "badasses" growth.
CornBurrito
Member
Hmm... I kind of wish they had kept Sozin as a well intentioned extremist and made some other Fire Lord the one who jumped off the deep end and committed genocide.
I mean I thought Sozin was truthful about wanting to spread Fire Nation success to other nations, but genocide kind of goes against that.
I mean I thought Sozin was truthful about wanting to spread Fire Nation success to other nations, but genocide kind of goes against that.
You're right. It's mostly a gut feeling. I reasoned that nobody in the Gang could fight Azula straight up. Aang would be the closest but in all their contests she was consistently more powerful. Katara can't redirected lightning. Zuko was in a stalemate with Crazula. Toph has no chance unless she could use dust particles to sense people. Lol, Sokka or Suki.
The White Lotus benders are all formidable, but Pakku just strikes me as a weak link. He's at best Katara level, and I have Azula beating her.
CornBurrito
Member
Katara could probably beat Azula without the comet being around. In the season 2 finale she almost defeated Azula using the water tentacle technique, but Zuko disrupted her.
Pakku probably isn't as weak as you think. Though Katara is quite gifted.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I see people are stuck claiming power levels now.
CornBurrito
Member
This will be settled once they add scouters to the Avatar universe.
I thought about that fight but came to the conclusion that she still has no defense for Azula's lightning. Azula is also more mobile. Of course things shift into Katara's favor with a pool of water right there. Still giving Azula the edge.
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah. The power of waterbending can be highly dependent on location.
That's one of the benefits of firebending.
Ultimadrago
Member
The anime style evaluation cycle shall only intensify from here!
Next stop: Dream Housing for waifus!
Shouta
Member
Better bender is different than better combatant though. I think Katara is by far a better bender than Azula but Azula is a better fighter because she's trained to do so.
That's why Azula is so dangerous, not so much because of her bending abilities, though she's great in them but her ability to fight is so great. I think most the good guys could beat her given a bit more experience.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
I'm sure if Azula was close to breaking Katara's will, she'd use blood bending.
Edit: Toph could earth bend the entire moon over, there! >:<
I still think, given Azula's tactical genius and calculating nature, combined with being a more accomplished fighter than any of the gang, as well as being able to shoot lightning, she is a tier above the main protagonist cast. Of course if the battle was in the ocean or something, Katara wins.
It makes for interesting discussion, and is quite a bit cleaner in Avatar considering everyone's abilities (mainly) fall into a linear scale of four different categories. Much easier to compare.
You're more than welcome to contribute.
Azula is the only firebender shown to have blue fire. Blue is hotter (more energy) than red. She is also one of only three in the entire show known to be able to use lightning. It's safe to say Azula, for her age, is the most accomplished firebender.
Conversely, Katara is only one of two known bloodbenders, but her unique power requires a full moon.
It's a wash at least as far as who is the more accomplished bender in their respective element; at most Azula has an edge.
Katara can't blood bend without a full moon.
Aang could have beat her by the time the show ended. Hell he was about even with her by the time he reached Ba Sing Se. He had a clear shot to take down Ozai but refused to do it and he even captured Ozai with earthbending later. I think Azula was the most gifted firebender but she hadn't yet reached Ozai and Iroh's level, go back and look at the finale. Ozai was obviously nuts, flying around and shit, and Iroh delivered the most powerful demonstration of firebending in the whole series. Azula is a prodigy firebender but Avatar isn't like Dragonball Z, she is still human and young.
Azula cracked, so it's unclear how powerful she would have been with the comet in peak form. It's heavily implied that she was off her game considerably. That's why I have Iroh and JJ in the arguably category, because their most impressive feats are with the comet, and we know for sure Iroh can redirect lightning and it stands to reason Jeong^2 can too.
I don't even know what you're talking about with capturing Ozai with earthbending. The end? The man was defeated at that point, everything following was a formality.
She went crazy. I'm not talking going forward. I'm speaking in terms of consistent ability throughout the series. Now you could argue she never actually got any better throughout the second and third book, and I would probably agree.
People use that excuse too much. She was mentally unstable, meaning she probably made mistakes during that battle and would have beat Zuko but she wouldn't have generated a lot more power than she did. You have to be realistic about Aang, I'm not taking anything away from Azula, but Aang can control all four elements so he is like a force of nature, he just has too many options and he can redirect lightning. Azula would have lost to him. I'll give you the point about trapping Ozai but Aang did have a clear shot to kill him except he didn't take it.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
So uh... anyone know a way I can watch the episodes?
Take a moment to think about what you're asking.
Agree to disagree about Azula. I'll respond to the Aang point when I get to a computer.
About Azula vs Katara, I would say by the end of season 3, Katara could have taken on Azula and won even without Azula being "unstable". Being that fire is weak against water, I would put both of their power levels about the same. But Katara's slight edge comes in because of her element.
And about lightning bending, it takes time. Something that Azula wouldn't have when fighting Katara. Katara is fast, agile, offensive, and defensive, all at the same time. And with her mastery of the different state of water, she could do the octopus whip whilst shooting razor sharp ice plates at Azula.
Ty Li: Azula, what does the scouter say about her power level?
Azula: IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAND!
And about lightning bending, it takes time. Something that Azula wouldn't have when fighting Katara. Katara is fast, agile, offensive, and defensive, all at the same time. And with her mastery of the different state of water, she could do the octopus whip whilst shooting razor sharp ice plates at Azula.
Ty Li: Azula, what does the scouter say about her power level?
Azula: IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAND!
CornBurrito
Member
Avatar isn't pokemon. Water doesn't necessarily trump fire in battle if the bender puts significant heat/power into the blast.
I don't even have a TV. Though I could maybe use the one in my college lobby. Nobody else will be up at 11:00am... hopefully.
On what show?
You realise they were in the middle of a comet amplifying Fire's power, right?
Come on guys, if two people are at the same level, the advantage would then go to whichever element could best the other.
And I think it's pretty self explanatory that water beats fire.
Cool, power level discussions.
Yes Azula was parodigy und one of the strongest firebenders we saw. But she was beaten, and that is all that matters in the end.
As for Toph, I'm sure she would have been able to stand her ground. She's the best Earthbende rin the world after all.
Yes Azula was parodigy und one of the strongest firebenders we saw. But she was beaten, and that is all that matters in the end.
As for Toph, I'm sure she would have been able to stand her ground. She's the best Earthbende rin the world after all.
CornBurrito
Member
Not in the Avatar universe.
Considering IRL you can also have fire hot enough to burn underwater, I'd imagine the Avatar universe works on a similar principle. When the bender does the blasting they can generate strong enough fire to withstand most water based counterattacks.
Did you even watch the series? Zuko vs. Katara. Zuko + Azula vs. Katara + Aang. These battles demonstrate water doesn't shut down fire. Azula is able to generate a strong enough blast to thrust Katara several feet away, despite Katara coating herself in water.
I wasn't talking about that part of the show. That's why I specifically mentioned that Azula wouldn't be off the deep end. I'm talking about if they both had a match without any outside influence, at the level that they were both at by the end of the show, I would give the slight win to Katara.
I mean, Season 3 started by having her create a wave the size of a tsunami to push a Fire Nation Navy ship. She is very powerful. And water is a very versatile element. Azula seems to use fire as all offense, offense, offense. Whereas Katara uses her water in all sorts of ways.
She also fought earlier battles with Zuko and didn't overpower him after he learned that bending from the dragons.
Remember their battle on the airship?
Also remember that Sozin's comet only comes once every hundred years. She would have reverted back to her normal bending ability the rest of the time and then she would really have no shot against him considering Aang was fending off firelord Ozai when Ozai had the power of the comet. Azula was about equal to Toph and Katara by the end who were also masters of their respective elements except she was probably a smarter fighter.
I was taking about power wise. Yeah he would have fell down there but he was clearly fighting her at about an equal level. Besides I already said that I give Azula the edge over Zuko, but she really has no chance against Aang with all four elements.
What would stop Zuko from firebending the same way Azula did to get to safety? He proved that he was as an accomplish a firebender as she was.
CornBurrito
Member
Fire is based on offensive styles of martial arts.
Water is more versatile, but Fire is based around overwhelming power.
But waterbending doesn't trump firebending in the Avatar Universe. Applying real world logic to bending ignores how it plays out in the show.
I mean the huge waves generated by waterbenders should literally crush people to death, but they don't.
Yep, hopefully with Avatar Z
I'm not just doing that am I? I'm also factored in how they each use their respective element. And I would have to give the edge to Katara not because water beats fire in the real world. I'm giving it to her because water beats fire in versatility in the Avatar world. Especially how Katara uses it.
CornBurrito
Member
And yet firebenders were able to conquer the Southern tribe, and would have conquered the Northern tribe if not for Aang and the moon spirit.
Professor Beef
Banned
He still believed he WAS doing that. Most sociopaths think they're doing the right thing when doing something heinous.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
This thread is more like MangaGAF than AnimeGAF.
Since when? You can fly with firebending. Fire is self sustaining. Also, lightning is the most devastating independent attack in the series.
Can't fly without the comet. Lightning is for master fire benders and takes time.(plus can be redirected by other fire benders) And yes, fire is self sustaining but master water benders can pull water out of the air and plants.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Toph, as far as i am concern, was the most powerful character in the show (not including Aang´s avatar´s state), and honestly i was pissed of that Toph did not defeat some kind of fire boss. She´s a master of earth bending, learned sand bending and invented metal bending. I wanted her to take all the Dai Lee out. Damn, she was robbed of great ending fight.
CornBurrito
Member
You can't spread prosperity to the 3 other nations when you genocide 1 of them.
They can pull comparability little out of the air compared to what a firebender can generate.
Fire is created. Water needs to already be there. It is an ubiquitous compound, but intrinsically not as available as Firebending. And we're talking about Mastery level bending.
Jump, win.
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah, she has a crippling weakness that can be easily exploited by Fire and Airbenders.
Katara's style of bending seems to require her being grounded. Earthbending also requires this.
Though Korra's style of bending is pretty damn athletic, and includes jump kicks.
Toph could beat any Earthbender though.
Except Bumi. That dude is broken.
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