The Incarnation
Member
Because the shot doesn't sound muffled by the kids body.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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Because the shot doesn't sound muffled by the kids body.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
The bullet must have hit something quite vital though, by all accounts, he died almost instantly.
When people die from bullet wounds its usually internal damage not blood loss. I'm not saying he didn't bleed, just that Zimmerman not having blood on him doesn't mean anything.
Plus I really don't believe Trayvon was shot while on top of him anyways.
soundscream
Member
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Internal damage of what? It had to have been something major, like his aorta or heart for him to have died so quickly. People were on the scene in minutes and he was already gone. I may be wrong, but I don't think he was shot in the head. I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean anything, because we don't have the details, but there must have been at least some blood.
Vital organs and such. The bullet can ricochet off bone like a ping pong ball and cause severe damage and internal bleeding where you bleed to death within minutes without the blood spilling out of the body. I've seen people that had been shot and it wasn't even known until the autopsy.
The Incarnation
Member
Well considering that Trayvon was supposed to have been trying to grab Zimmerman's gun while directly on top him and then Zimmerman somehow managed to turn the gun around and shoot Trayvon, I'd say the shot would have to been pretty close don't you think.
Joel Was Right
Member
This made me rage more than I expected. Fucking hell...he was screaming for help for a while
Mortrialus
Banned
It was zimmermans voice though, can't you tell?
Joel Was Right
Member
It was Zimmerman crying out for help?
I cant bring myself to listen to that but what's the general consensus? Does it sound like Zimmerman or a teenager? Can't they run a voice analysis or something?
elrechazado
Banned
Guys, pretty sure that was sarcasm
My god there was screaming for like 40 seconds. Like hell that was zimmerman. You think he wouldn't have pulled his gun sooner if it was him getting his ass kicked for 40 seconds?
PhoenixDark
Banned
I honestly can't tell.
dat sarcasm
Vicetrailia
Banned
Detector is borked.
i am picturing that one Stallone/Deniro movie where all the crooked cops are untouchable.
Exactly. Zimmerman carries a gun "hunting criminals" and hes going to yell for over a minute screaming for help and before finally shooting?
empty vessel
Member
He was shot through clothes, so there won't be stippling, which are burns on the body. The clothes can be analyzed for gun shot residue, though. And I think six feet is too much. Maybe two feet. It will still tell us something (if they preserved and examined the clothing).
Source? If that's true, Game Over.
Stipling burns would still be prevalent on his clothes. And 5 or 6 feet is the limit for stipling burns from the concussion blast. You've claimed to be a prosecutor before, you should know this.
There's so much wrong about the theory that it's Zimmerman screaming.
First of all, the voice doesn't match the tone/tenor of Zimmerman AT ALL. Listen to his voice on the 911 call and then the voicemail he left his friend earlier in the week. Granted he wasn't screaming on either the 911 call or the vm he left, but it doesn't match up at all.
Secondly, several witnesses said that the voice sounded young. No one equated it to a grown man. When I first heard it (before even knowing most of the details about what happened) I thought it sounded like a young guy. I mean, that's a desperate voice. Someone was pleading not just for help, but for their very life. Zimmerman (based on all that we know of him) is not the kind of person to ask for help, much less beg as openly and loudly. I mean look at him just at the personality level. He's an aggressive, stubborn person (see his multiple assault charges, the fact that he disregarded the 911 dispatcher asking him not to follow, multiple 911 calls, etc.) and he likes being in charge.
Finally, just look at him in the police footage. He looks cool and in control. There's no visible signs that he's shaken up, nervous, sad, remorseful, anything. And he was taken to the police station within 40 minutes of the shooting. A person screaming like that would NOT be as calm and collected as the person in the video. I just can't believe it.
First of all, the voice doesn't match the tone/tenor of Zimmerman AT ALL. Listen to his voice on the 911 call and then the voicemail he left his friend earlier in the week. Granted he wasn't screaming on either the 911 call or the vm he left, but it doesn't match up at all.
Secondly, several witnesses said that the voice sounded young. No one equated it to a grown man. When I first heard it (before even knowing most of the details about what happened) I thought it sounded like a young guy. I mean, that's a desperate voice. Someone was pleading not just for help, but for their very life. Zimmerman (based on all that we know of him) is not the kind of person to ask for help, much less beg as openly and loudly. I mean look at him just at the personality level. He's an aggressive, stubborn person (see his multiple assault charges, the fact that he disregarded the 911 dispatcher asking him not to follow, multiple 911 calls, etc.) and he likes being in charge.
Finally, just look at him in the police footage. He looks cool and in control. There's no visible signs that he's shaken up, nervous, sad, remorseful, anything. And he was taken to the police station within 40 minutes of the shooting. A person screaming like that would NOT be as calm and collected as the person in the video. I just can't believe it.
BruiserBear
Banned
So if neither guy has a single mark on them what was happening during that minute long yelling heard on 911 calls?
elrechazado
Banned
This is repeat of an off the cuff from the medical examiner I believe. Not saying it's not true, but until we see that report, I'd hold off on speculation.
There should also be smokeless gunpowder residue on Trayvon's hoodie/shirt if the gun was fired at close range.
Dreams-Visions
Member
yep. we won't know until trial unless it "leaks" like so many other things have.
The funeral director who prepared Trayvon's body, Richard Kurtz, said there were no marks on the boy's hands or any other signs he had been in a fight.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-...r-uninjured-20120330-1w23h.html#ixzz1qeoZi9zy
What does he know though??? We have to wait on information from the Sanford Police department to discuss this any further.
How do you not help someone while they're screaming... I just don't understand it. I'll never fucking understand it.
I'm about ready to claim Zimmerman pulled the gun on Trayvon and this of course got him yelling for help as he stood wherever he was. No skirmish, no nothing. Zimmerman thought he was the big man in the situation, pointing the gun at the kid and he shot. I don't give a fuck... that's my goddamn story. I can't believe anything else at this point. Nothing adds up, nothing looks right.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
How skilled are morticians at making forensic observations?
Well, if you're talking about all the people who heard screaming, keep in mind they heard a gunshot. They weren't being heartless, they were fearful for their own safety.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Apparently Zim was sitting on the kids back holding him at gunpoint.
BruiserBear
Banned
You say that as if Zimmerman was just begging to shoot someone.
Again, I'm going to turn to the evidence we have, and ask you to defend your claim. Not because I think Zimmerman is innocent of anything, but only because you're making claims.
On that 911 call, you can hear someone yelling for nearly a minute. If Zimmerman was so eager to just put a bullet into this kid, why did he take so long?
The yelling was going on for about a minute when the gun was fired. That was plenty of time for people to look out their windows hearing that. Quite honesty, that is one of the reasons I'm surprised someone didn't see the actual shooting occur. If I heard that kind of noise outside my house, I would definitely be at a window watching carefully, and maybe would have even went outside to see what was going on.
but that was a solid 30 seconds in that time and then even before that, it sounded like the screams were happening before the phone call. I'll take it though, I understand completely people being afraid in that position... I just couldn't do it though.
Mortrialus
Banned
Something or someone. That's pretty much what it means to own a gun.
planar1280
Banned
No it doesn't, but that discussion is not for here.
BruiserBear
Banned
Except for the fact that several people looked out their windows and saw one person on top of another person, fighting. Also, the police officer who arrived on the scene first stated he saw wet grass on Zimmerman's back.
Hey, I'm the last guy to ever own a gun. Never even fired one.
I was only responding to other people's claims that Zimmerman just wanted to shoot someone. So I pointed out that there was yelling for about a minute, and then a shot. That would seem to indicate some crazy stuff was going down for that minute, and then the gun was fired.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Eh... If Martin was shot in the back I think we'd have heard about that by now.
I'm angry after hearing the phone call. I know (have an idea) of what happened... I'm just being loud.
empty vessel
Member
I'm not nor have I ever been a prosecutor. Stippling wounds specifically refer to abrasions on a body. You may get some stippling with a gunshot through clothing, but not much, because the gunpowder that causes the stippling (abrasions on the body) does not penetrate clothing well. Where a gun shot wound is through clothing, the stippling patterns on the body are not forensically meaningful (other than to confirm that the weapon was fired within about 3 feet). Instead, the clothing is analyzed. The gunpowder pattern on clothing is not referred to as stippling:
Forensic Pathology said:
Forensic Pathology: Principles and Practice, by David Dolinak at 170. (Available on Google Books but I am not linking because the book has many graphic images)
The book says that stippling (and gunpowder patterns on clothing) are typically present from 2-3 feet, although this obviously depends on the circumstances. Which is why testing of the actual weapon used is recommended where possible to get a better idea of what distance represents the specific gunpowder pattern on clothing in a given case.
Well, considering the fact that they likely see hundreds or thousands of dead bodies a year and specifically focus on hiding all visible scars and wounds, probably not as far off as you think.
Devolution
Member
Bruiserbear is the new KHarvey, stop feeding it.
Vicetrailia
Banned
KoruptData
Member
That video made me sick.
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