smh, I believe it is.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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smh, I believe it is.
Actually it does. I am in the something camp, and there's nothing wrong with that. Even if you're in the "someone" camp, it should be the, "oh please god I hope I don't ever have to shoot someone."
If you have a gun just because you expect it to only be an inert object, then you're a loon who buys potentially dangerous sculptures.
Then why didn't he wait for the police? He had no duty to detain Martin under the circumstances. Was it perhaps because he had assumed that Martin had committed a crime? And he made that assumption because Martin was black?
Yeah.
Okay. I just wanted to point out [again] that he's a fucking loon.
BruiserBear
Banned
I just check other people's claims that are often baseless, or directly contradict the evidence we have at this time.
Threads like this need someone playing that role, otherwise it just turns into a giant circle jerk of conspiratorial claims and opinions not backed up by reality.
I've said it many times already, I think Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter. So if you want to peg me a defender, you'd be wrong. The dude should be arrested and sent to jail for a good while.
And that is a perfectly fine question to be asking. But on the previous page someone suggested he just wanted to shoot this kid, and I just pointed out to you that if he wanted to do that, he could have made it happen a lot quicker, like before that minute of screaming occurred. If you are looking at the facts as we know them, it seems clear a struggle occurred, which resulted in the shot being fired. That's quite different from the suggestion I responded to.
That's very classy of you.
But Zimmerman's own account is still murder, not manslaughter. There's the rub. He admits to stalking and following an innocent teenager, an act which unarguably precipitated violence, no matter how you look at it, and shooting him dead.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Didn't the lead detective want to go ahead with an arrest, but the prosecutor told him to drop it?
I'm honestly not sold yet that Zimmerman was racially profiling, due to his history of calling the cops on just about everyone. 46 calls in the past year. Plus he apparently mentored black kids. Thats not proof he wasnt racist but it sure makes it doubtful.
Nonetheless, a lot of people in the media and in general tried to justify this with some racist attitudes. I am just not fully sold that Zimmerman's overzealousness was because of Martin being black.
We have moderators for that.
Really doesn't matter if he was racist. As he profiled someone, and ignored the police, as well as neighborhood watch rules. Shot someone, then went home with his gun. That doesn't happen in my country. The race issue, is a sidebar. As many black people have all been completely profiled like this, and know that they have observed others treated differently for doing identical things. No one will admit its the way it is, but its the way it is.
empty vessel
Member
Bruises do form post-mortem (they require blood circulation over time). Scratches or cuts he could probably detect.
This ignores a mountain of empirical evidence about the assumptions virtually all people make based on race. Including staunch anti-racists like myself. Even including many black people themselves. Racism and racist assumptions are all-pervasive. There is no reason to believe George Zimmerman was not affected by what affects almost all of us.
BruiserBear
Banned
Really? So only mods are allowed to ask someone to back up their claim in a discussion?
How noble of you. Thank you. I don't know how this forum would survive otherwise.
Was every one of those 46 calls for every young male he saw walking around in his neighborhood??
How about you back up your claims? Your not the only one that can make assumptions.
Devolution
Member
Sigh.
BruiserBear
Banned
But that's the thing, I'm not making assumptions. These are facts we know.
Witnesses at the scene saw one guy on top of the other, engaged in a struggle.
The first police officer on the scene said Zimmerman had grass on the back of his jacket, and a wound on the back of his head.
Yelling was heard for about a minute.
Sorry to burst your bubble but its not against the rules here to actually discuss things around here or form opinions about what happened. You've done it on numerous occasions on this thread.
Where's all the evidence to support this? We need hard proof not just people like you running around with conspiracy theories.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Nothing says "I'm sick of this story" like......
Oh joy, a self appointed thread watch capitan... have to keep an eye out for those "suspicious" posters huh?
Devolution
Member
Zing.
Joel Was Right
Member
The narrative at the beginning was that there was a racial tone to this incident, at first with Zimmerman and then the police department. Is that still the narrative or is this now a topic discussing merely the legality of the incident?
Also, this looks very familiar. Where is it from?
Also, this looks very familiar. Where is it from?
Roger Danish
Member
I lol'ed.
The narrative at the beginning was that there was a racial tone to this incident, at first with Zimmerman and then the police department. Is that still the narrative or is this now a topic discussing merely the legality of the incident?
Also, this looks very familiar. Where is it from?
Reboot.
hence the username
The narrative at the beginning was that there was a racial tone to this incident, at first with Zimmerman and then the police department. Is that still the narrative or is this now a topic discussing merely the legality of the incident?
Also, this looks very familiar. Where is it from?
The character Matrix. Adult Enzo from the show Reboot.
soundahfekz
Member
dat ether
I like the cut of your jib.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Professor Beef
Banned
BOOM
samus i am
Member
soundscream
Member
BruiserBear
Banned
This link provides scans of the police officer's reports from the scene. I read them a couple days ago. Hopefully this will suffice as hard enough proof for you.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...ayvon-Martin-shooting-answers-a-few-questions
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."
I've never mentioned suspicious posters, but that is a cute play on words. I've only stated that when people are throwing out completely baseless claims, or suggesting things happened in a way we already know isn't the case, I will say as much.
Frankly I'm not even keeping up with this thread that well, but every day I poke in and see what's happening. It usually takes about 5 seconds to spot someone throwing out some unsubstantiated claim.
I'm sorry if that's not welcomed. The rational part of my brain is usually annoyed with that type of stuff.
You can disagree without being a complete shmendrik putz in your attitude, you know. It's one thing to go against the grain, but it's another to be contrarian just to be...contrarian and have too much chutzpah.
For example, I disagree with most of the posters here crying for justice, because there won't be any. But I don't have people dogpiling, because I'm not being a completely shlemiel about it.
I'm assuming that's the second police officer and not the first one that thought zimmerman was full of shit?
And once again the surveillance video isn't concurrent with those claims
You take everything the police say as fact? Considering everything that has happened so far I would think thats a pretty significant leap of faith for someone that only discusses so called "facts". We also have "facts" that witnesses said they didn't see Zimmerman injured. We also have video showing Zimmerman with no obvious signs of injury. Why didn't the officers take pictures of these injuries? Since they did not or we have not seen them you are making a completely baseless assumption that Zimmerman actually had injuries at all.
That second one. Damn.
Devolution
Member
It's funny how he called this discussion a "circle jerk" full of "conspiratorial claims not backed up by reality" when he wants to accept the story provided by the very same department that has proven to be inept in evidence taking and tampered with witness statements. I live in reality, it's very skeptical of bullshit.
BruiserBear
Banned
I'm not just being a contrarian to be a contrarian, and I think that's pretty clear from my posts.
The report I linked to includes comments from the first two officers at the scene.
Also, even if the officer didn't believe a word Zimmerman said, the facts he observed at the scene, which were the ones I specifically quoted as they pertained to the discussion at hand, have nothing to do with Zimmerman's story. They were direct visual observations made from the very first officer who arrived at the scene.
The surveillance video was a while after those initial observations were made, and it's noted in that report that the paramedics treated him at the scene.
Are you actually naive enough to believe that there's no possibility of the officers lying here?
soundscream
Member
Wouldn't that second video explain the blood?
Zimmerman on top of Martin with his hands on the wound.
Then multiple witnesses saying they saw Zimmerman with his hands on his head walking around
Might have been Martins blood on his head.
There is absolutely NO proof at all that zimmerman was hurt. Back your shit up and stop floating this conspiracy theory that he was. Until there has been evidence submitted that can back up zimmerman or the officers claims we are going to have to leave this in the "baseless" pile.
Nah dude, officers are saints man... they don't come in the scumbag variety... they just don't.
There has been no single case which I can think of that placed doubt on the officers, cause they're saints doing gods work! Or whatever is the most popular way to rationalize it...
*Puts up strain smile*
I'm not lying...
BruiserBear
Banned
Asks for evidence of a claim.
Provided evidence for that claim.
Denies evidence is credible.
This is a waste of my time guys. Neither of you has any interest in truly discussing this case. As I said, circle jerk, conspiracys, etc, etc.
It's a fun game to play when you just pick and choose which details are to be believed, and which are not. Whatever you don't like is questionable, whatever you do like is fact.
Have fun guys. I'll leave you alone from here on out. Sometimes this board disappoints me, and this is one of those instances.
Are you actually uninformed enough to not know that the officers suggested Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, but the state attorney's office told them not to?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3aHN46Jm60
LOL so your saying your not picking and choosing details to believe? Is this some kind of joke?
The lead investigator recommended that, not the police officers on scene.
You realize that was one officer?
The rest of the other officers on the case decided to handle shit much fucking differently...
Regardless of the message the attorney's office sent, they handled the case so poorly they've got no excuse for it...
O great. Another one of your BASELESS comments. You just made an assumption that the officers on the scene were the ones that wanted the manslaughter charge.
BruiserBear
Banned
Do you even read the things you're quoting?
"The first detective to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer".
That has absolutely nothing to do with the first officer on the scene stating Zimmerman had grass on his back, and blood coming from his nose and head. Nothing.
The "interview" was conducted back at the station, probably 30-45 minutes later.
Yes, he wrote that on his report, but you don't think the officer's on the scene have some input on that report? They're telling him "don't charge him", and this guy disregards their opinions and suggests a charge? They're all working on the same team, in the same station. If the lead investigator says charge him, it's pretty much assumed the other officers agreed with him, which helped him come to that conclusion.
All signs have pointed to the state's attorney making the call that Zimmerman go free.
This is what I was saying. Unless I'm mistaken the other officers that came on the scene discarded everything the first officer said.
While it is possible zimmermans back was on the grass at one point, based on the witnesses interviewed he ultimately got on top of trayvon during the final moments. They also said there was next to no struggle which goes with the funeral directors analysis of trayvons hands. With the video as well it adds up pretty well. I give more credibility to the witnesses though as the police have been far too incompetant to trust.
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