elrechazado
Banned
Profiled by the guy who called the cops 40+ times in a year, and 6 of the calls were about black people.
I wish people would realize this is about a corrupt and incompetent law enforcement regime and not about a racist.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
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Profiled by the guy who called the cops 40+ times in a year, and 6 of the calls were about black people.
I wish people would realize this is about a corrupt and incompetent law enforcement regime and not about a racist.
Big Baybee
Member
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Are you going to pretend that Zimmerman did not profile that boy? Ha!
The media coverage is really random about this here, so I just get my news updates for this thread, but I randomly ran into the facebook pics of the guy people here were talking about, on wwtdd.com out of all things, check it out
It seems people have found the kid's twitters accounts too:
linky link
linky link 2
Nothing really interesting, but the medias are highlighting 'negative' stuff like Trayvon telling some guy to "shoot that one mf who lied to you" and some stuff about hoes.
another pic with akimbo extended middle finger action, not linked to it being kinda NSFW
It seems people have found the kid's twitters accounts too:
linky link
linky link 2
Nothing really interesting, but the medias are highlighting 'negative' stuff like Trayvon telling some guy to "shoot that one mf who lied to you" and some stuff about hoes.
another pic with akimbo extended middle finger action, not linked to it being kinda NSFW
Vicetrailia
Banned
Listen to the tape, he profiled the shit out of Tray.
When? On the phone call with 9-1-1?
I thought that was debunked:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359
That doesn't look like racial profiling. It's a dude placing more importance on his role on the NW who saw someone he deemed shady. Since he had a hoodie on, and it was night, it would be hard to tell what color he was.
Or has he said "I shot him because he was black"?
I agree.
The racism angle was only played up because the media likes a story. I don't think it has any bearing on what happened, ESPECIALLY not with the evidence.
The 9-1-1 call was edited, but since it was the edited version that everyone heard first, he's automatically a racist.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Why is it even an argument? He clearly profiled him. You can argue that this doesn't make him an overt racist in the classic, cartoonish sense and I would probably agree but he had a base set of assumptions already in play when he saw Trayvon. I agree that it is a secondary issue however. Zimmerman killed a young man for no fucking reason and needs to rot in jail and the Sanford Police also have to answer for their complicitness in covering this up.
elrechazado
Banned
To me it screams wannabe cop identifying a perp. Like they saw on tv while jacking it to cops "we got a male perp, caucasian, wearing a red hat, in pursuit now!". I've met plenty of these jackasses. Just because he identified the kid as black to the police doesn't mean he's a racist.
If actual evidence comes out that he's a racist, so be it. Protip though: murder is worse than racism, and evidence to my eyes looks like at least 3rd degree murder.
Do you disregard that Barack Obama is half white?
Do you claim that he is black and only black even though his mother is white?
Do you disregard that Tiger Woods is also part asian, part white, and part native american?
Do you claim that Tiger is ________ and only __________ despite his very diverse ancestry?
I do find it interesting that so many people refer to Tiger Woods as black even though his asian ancestry is the largest proportion is his mixed ancestry, it's twice as much as his black ancestry and four times as much as his native american or white ancestry.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
So we agree then. The murder is what is important. Racial profiling is a broader discussion outside of that.
It's an argument because the evidence pointing to him racially profiling Trayvon was edited to make it look like he was racially profiling.
The bolded is what everyone should be focusing on, the actual case. You're throwing accusations out there using hearsay provided in the media (and they are the reason this case is on anyone's mind at all).
Nailed it.
Big Baybee
Member
You don't have to be a fucking racist to profile someone. Are you kidding me? The mental leaps people are making is amusing.
elrechazado
Banned
I claim that common usage for both in all facets of society is that he's black, which happens to be irrelevant to me. You and the ones who are freaking out about this issue are the ones who are off the rails. Personally, I'd say he's a man in his 30s. His race or heritage is irrelevant, and the only context I could imagine it being worth mentioning would be if someone was trying to ID him and described his features, which would probably include - fat, light brown skin, dark hair, lame beard.
If I said he was white in other contexts, would you have as much of a hissy fit as you did over people saying that a "brown" person is not white?
Define your terms then and identify what the relevance or significance of the fact that he was "profiled". You're making the distinction between racism and profiling, not me. If you think nobody has suggested that he is a racist, feel free to peruse the thread a bit and then come back and apologize.
But people are disregarding Zimmerman as 'white' when his mother is Spanish. It goes both ways.
The problem with this case is that it played on some very touchy issues, issues that always bring out emotion from people. When you bring race up in the news, it's a story. But there are some more tragic things happening every day in the USA that never get any coverage.
I think we can agree on that.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Living in the Bronx amidst the NYPD's ""Stop & Frisk" bullshit, I can only completely disagree with you based on my own experience. I'm not here to convince you otherwise so we'll leave it at that.
I'm not familiar with the Stop & Frisk. What was that? Profiling people and frisking based only on appearance?
elrechazado
Banned
When institutional law enforcement disproportionately focuses on minorities, which they do, it is a horrible injustice. Terry Vs. Ohio might be one of the most racist supreme court decisions since dred scott.
When a manic wannabe cop self polices his neighborhood in a paranoid way that involves black people 15% of the time (purportedly 6 of his 40+ calls to the cops), leaping to the conclusion that he was particularly racist against blacks is not supported by the evidence. Yet.
Terry Vs. Ohio proclaimed that cops can detain you if they have reasonable suspicion that you may have broken a law. This vague term serves as a post hoc justification for just about any reason a cop wants to make up about why he stopped and frisked you, and in many areas, being black is reasonable suspicion enough to detain you and search you for "officer safety". It's a gutting of the constitution, and it's been the law for decades now.
MightyHealthy
Banned
"placing their blame on the wrong person"
you mean, the guy who confronted their child with a gun in the first place?
man, those people are so far gone...smh
you mean, the guy who confronted their child with a gun in the first place?
man, those people are so far gone...smh
If someone had a gun pointed straight at your chest, you wouldn't scream bloody murder?
With all of the information that comes out, I think a pretty clear picture of what happened that night has formed.
At best, Zimmerman racially profiled, disobeyed police, followed, confronted, and shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
At worst, Zimmerman racially profiled, disobeyed police, followed, confronted, and shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
Every bit of Zimmerman's multiple accounts of what happened is being refuted by evidence emerging. Is it true that there is no evidence of a scuffle on Martin's body? After pounding someone in the face for a full minute, there'd be at least some scratching on the knuckles, even if the person expired soon after. Our skin isn't made of steel, our bones not of adamantium. If you are punching someone with the intent to kill, there's going to be some, at the least, superficial damage to your fists. Bruising and swelling would happen after, but Trayvon was dead by then.
What are you referring to? What are you quoting?
Roger Danish
Member
No, based on "furtive movements." Which, really, means anything the cop wants it to.
It means "colored."
Big Baybee
Member
Fuck off. If you don't think he even profiled the kids, then you are not worth having a conversation with. What made Trayvon suspicious? Why did he call the police on Trayvon when he was doing nothing but walking home?
WHY is it racially profiling? Where are you finding this fact from?
If you're referring to the edited 9-1-1 tapes, that doesn't prove anything.
elrechazao and oatmeal, you guys are still missing the point.
It's not the people saying Zimmerman is white, or the people saying zimmerman is hispanic, and it's especially not the people saying that Zimmerman is white hispanic or that he has a white father and a peruvian mother.
It's the people saying Zimmerman is Hispanic and not white because his mother is Peruvian.
The essence of the One Drop Rule (did you guys even read the wikipedia article?) is the way of thinking that treats ancestry as a purity/contamination dichotomy where white is pure, and anything non-white is contamination.
Think of it as a pot of soup with One Drop of diarrhea in it. It doesn't matter that the diarrhea is such a miniscule proportion of the soup. You're not gonna want to eat it. It's contaminated.
That's the line of thinking that I am calling out: Zimmerman's mother is Peruvian; therefore he is hispanic - not white, just hispanic.
It's not the people saying Zimmerman is white, or the people saying zimmerman is hispanic, and it's especially not the people saying that Zimmerman is white hispanic or that he has a white father and a peruvian mother.
It's the people saying Zimmerman is Hispanic and not white because his mother is Peruvian.
The essence of the One Drop Rule (did you guys even read the wikipedia article?) is the way of thinking that treats ancestry as a purity/contamination dichotomy where white is pure, and anything non-white is contamination.
Think of it as a pot of soup with One Drop of diarrhea in it. It doesn't matter that the diarrhea is such a miniscule proportion of the soup. You're not gonna want to eat it. It's contaminated.
That's the line of thinking that I am calling out: Zimmerman's mother is Peruvian; therefore he is hispanic - not white, just hispanic.
He did profile based on appearance, but it had nothing to do with him being black.
What made those other 46 people suspicious? Zimmerman didn't need a reason to call someone suspicious. He called the cops on everyone, calling them all suspicious.
Big Baybee
Member
I have never heard any edited tapes, stop saying this. The tapes were posted in their entirety in this thread when they were released.
Sure buddy.
elrechazado
Banned
I'm having a rational discussion here, and the best you can come up with is "fuck off"? Ok friend, ignore list we go.
I understand the distinction you're making. The people making the point are making it because they feel that there is a narrative that the media would like to put this into: Racist white guy kills black kid. The reality may be that, and we will see as we have more facts. However, many people are frustrated with that narrative because it has a great many implications that are simply not supported at this time. If race is so important to the case, why isn't anyone saying "part hispanic kills black youth?" I don't think any of it should be relevant, because it seems very clear to me that the narrative should be "crazy wannabe cop with paranoid delusions of grandeur kills an innocent young man after displaying a history of said paranoia."
Guess I'm just crazy though for wanting to focus on facts and not racial narratives.
Stop distracting from the narrative.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
He wasn't "arrested" he was "detained" as suspect and taken back to the station pending investigation.
The police can have you "detained" and you will be handcuffed. They can't formally arrest you without charges. Zimmerman was not charged. Hence he walked away.
I didn't see a wiki article.
I don't care if Zimmerman was white, black, whatever...I was just responding to the poster saying that Barack is half-white yet people call him black. Same with Tiger. But Zimmerman is called white even though his mother is, as you said, Peruvian.
Not that it's a bad thing in either case, but that it's happening on both sides.
Basically, what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter.
Big Baybee
Member
Zimmerman self identifies as white, the police identified him as white. Thats all that matters bro.
empty vessel
Member
Emphasis on particularly. Most of us make assumptions based on race. And it is worth talking about, because it can cause people to die like this. It would be truly amazing to me if a man like Zimmerman did not make racist inferences about Martin. Being paranoid, he may well have already found him "suspicious" before ever realizing his race, but it would be remarkable if, once having become aware of Martin's race, Zimmerman's suspicions were not deepened. And that isn't a comment about Zimmerman in particular so much it is a comment about almost every one of us. And it is important to acknowledge it so that we can become more aware of the often unconscious associations we make based on race.
Okay good. So what about that 9-1-1 call makes it sound like he is racist? Race wasn't brought up until he was asked by the operator.
I don't get why you're getting offended.
Where is your proof that he was profiling him based on race?
See below:
Dude Abides
Banned
It may or may not have. Since we can't read minds, we can't know definitively, but there is enough that we do know to raise a reasonable suspicion that race may have played some role. . Your definitive statement that race played no role is just as baseless as those claiming that it definitely did.
Zimmerman identifies as white? Has he said this? Not that I don't believe you, I just haven't seen it (but I haven't looked for it).
I don't think it matters what the police identify him as...
Serious question as I don't know...
Does Barack and/or Tiger ever correct people that call them black? Or do they say "asian black" or "mulatto"?
I'm honestly not sure.
elrechazado
Banned
If you look back a few posts I think you'll see that I acknowledge this is a problem institutionally. Surely you agree however that the nuanced explanation you've given does not fit in with certain narratives being used to paint the situation as a return to jim crow era lynch squads.
Big Baybee
Member
Fucking coons.
I don't get why the fact that he hasn't called the police on every black person he saw diminishes the fact that he clearly profiled this kid in the instance. He saw a black kid in a hoodie and deemed him suspicious enough to stalk, chase, and eventually murder.
But I'm not saying he didn't. I'm just saying that we don't know that he did.
What we DO know is that he saw Trayvon, at night, in the rain...and he called the police, something that he has done many times before, and only a handful of those calls were because of black people.
So we have Zimmerman on the phone with 9-1-1 and he doesn't bring up his race until the police ask him to identify his skin color and he says "he looks black"...he's not entirely sure yet either.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Right, because 8 year old kids look dangerous right. He has a history of calling in "suspicious" young black males, non of whom were found to be in the process of doing anything. A white kid walking around a white neighborhood would not look suspicious to Zimmerman, or to most people for that matter
I'm not referring to the 911 call, or even referencing Zimmerman calling Trayvon a coon allegedly. This kid was hunted and harrassed because he was guilty of being black walking at night
MightyHealthy
Banned
Oops, sorry. I was referring to this FB post:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/max-godfrey/my-2-cents-on-treyvon/10150686398648991
Ghost_Protocol
Member
I still can't believe that people don't know that the things they say on facebook can, and will, come back to bite them in the ass some day. Stay classy.
What proof do we have that he DIDN'T profile him based off race? We don't have any.
elrechazado
Banned
Apparently we are unfamiliar with logic.
Unmask them all so we can pile on them.
Dude Abides
Banned
Such bullshit dude. I see plenty of white looking kids that look suspicious. Over generalizations for the win. Trying so hard to stay out of this thread but comments like these just piss me off.
Didn't Zimmerman also say, "These assholes always get away" or "Those assholes always get away" after stating that Trayvon was black?
Big Baybee
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo
I don't hear it. I hear 'punks'.
Regardless, at what point was this in the process? Was it during the first call? Anyone have a full transcript of his phone calls?
He saw a KID in a hoodie and deemed him suspicious enough to stalk and chase.
I'm not saying that Zimmerman definitely did not use race as part of his reason to call Martin suspicious, but I'm not sold that he neceassarily did, because he was calling just about EVERYONE suspicious if he didn't recognize them. If you think Zimmerman was racially profilin Trayvon Martin, then you need to establish that Martin not being black would have resulted in Zimmerman not thinking he is suspicious. Zimmerman's history would indicate that Zimmerman would havr acted similarly even if Martin were white.
The "Coon" commet would prove it to me 100% that Zimmerman was a racist and by extension, prove that he racially profiles, but most neutral listeners agree it's too inaudible to tell.
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