Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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Riggs said:
Classy man.

Btw I am neither of the two things. Those being a troll or devils advocate. I clearly stated zimmerman should be in prison for life. Just saying, before you label me anything. Advise you calm down man.
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I never called you a devils advocate, nor a troll. My post wasn't even addressing you, or anything you've said in this thread. You decided to insert yourself into my post and proceed to tell me my attitude sucks, then because I say I don't give a fuck about your opinion of my attitude I'm being hostile?

If I'm hostile for being annoyed by the tireless redundant cycle of people making the same tired arguments ad nauseam that got others banned already, you're certainly the same for an assertion you directed towards me about my "attitude" without knowing the extent of my and other's exertion in dealing with bullshit in this thread.
 
oatmeal said:
Are you the self-appointed thread watch?
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Unfortunately, much like your arguments, that joke has already been used & worn out in the thread.

This whole thing has already happened before, and its going to happen again tomorrow.

j1bSGZy28Z9Zq.gif


heres your hat..
 
oatmeal said:
Bringing up Trayvon's facebook and twitter is just as fair as bringing up quotes and articles from 7 years ago regarding Zimmerman, IMO. If you're going to examine one character, you should examine the other. But only on a superficial level.
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NO.

Zimmerman's history is being brought up to because they show a man prone to aggressive behavior on multiple occasional, including but not limited to assaulting a police officer and being dismissed from a prior job because of aggressive behavior. This is all quite relevant to a case where someone was shot and killed...by someone with a history of overly-aggressive behavior. You can bet your ass it will be brought up in court as such.

Trayvon's history is being brought up to attempt to besmirch his reputation and sully his character. This is true because people are attempting to point to his enjoyment of rap music, weed, and girls. Things many teenagers do. None of them establish him as some sort of violent predator who goes around attacking people and getting into fights. If there were incidents in his past recently that point to him being a violent person, they'd be relevant. Enjoyment of girls, rap and weed are only relevant to the degree some would try to attack his reputation. Trayvon's enjoyment of rap music and weed on occasion will not be brought up, by contrast.


soundahfekz said:
His race is irrelevant. it changes nothing about the details of the case.
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this.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
NO.

Zimmerman's history is being brought up to because they show a man prone to aggressive behavior on multiple occasional, including but not limited to assaulting a police officer and being dismissed from a prior job because of aggressive behavior.

Trayvon's history is being brought up to attempt to besmirch his reputation and sully his character. This is true because people are attempting to point to his enjoyment of rap music, weed, and girls. Things many teenagers do. None of them establish him as some sort of violent predator who goes around attacking people and getting into fights. If there were incidents in his past recently that point to him being a violent person, they'd be relevant. Enjoyment of girls, rap and weed are only relevant to the degree some would try to attack his reputation.
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Thought question, and I'm not asking because I believe there is a trace of evidence that this is the case, but if internet detective work found say, a facebook discussion between trayvon and friends that they were robbing houses in that neighborhood, wouldn't it then be relevant under the test you just established for Zimmerman?

The question you raise and the conclusion you come to is based upon the results of the searches, not the validity of searching in the first place.
 
elrechazao said:
Thought question, and I'm not asking because I believe there is a trace of evidence that this is the case, but if internet detective work found say, a facebook discussion between trayvon and friends that they were robbing houses in that neighborhood, wouldn't it then be relevant under the test you just established for Zimmerman?

The question you raise and the conclusion you come to is based upon the results of the searches, not the validity of searching in the first place.
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You are dealing in a fantasy world, while we are dealing with the facts about Zimmerman's past. Fuck the "What ifs".
 
Big Baybee said:
You are dealing in a fantasy world, while we are dealing with the facts about Zimmerman's past. Fuck the "What ifs".
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Yeah, I'll go ahead and unignore you for a sec, sink to your level a moment, and ask you to fuck off. I can discuss whatever the fuck I want. I found his post very interesting, and I want to discuss it. But thanks for your fantastic fucking contribution.
 
elrechazao said:
Yeah, I'll go ahead and unignore you for a sec, sink to your level a moment, and ask you to fuck off. I can discuss whatever the fuck I want. I found his post very interesting, and I want to discuss it. But thanks for your fantastic fucking contribution.
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Well, before adding you to my ignore list, NO. It still would not be relevant. Zimmerman could not have possibly known that Trayvon and his friend were robbing anything at the time that he shot him. Furthermore, it STILL would not show any aggressive behavior on Trayvon's part.
 
elrechazao said:
Thought question, and I'm not asking because I believe there is a trace of evidence that this is the case, but if internet detective work found say, a facebook discussion between trayvon and friends that they were robbing houses in that neighborhood, wouldn't it then be relevant under the test you just established for Zimmerman?

The question you raise and the conclusion you come to is based upon the results of the searches, not the validity of searching in the first place.
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If it WAS found that Trayvon intended to rob a house, how would that be relevant to the night in question, based on what we already know?
 
elrechazao said:
Yeah, I'll go ahead and unignore you for a sec, sink to your level a moment, and ask you to fuck off. I can discuss whatever the fuck I want. I found his post very interesting, and I want to discuss it. But thanks for your fantastic fucking contribution.
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lol, What you wanted to discuss has never happened and is not fucking relevant to the case at hand AT ALL. Weren't you and Oatmeal circle jerking for a few pages about only focusing on the facts surrounding this case?
 
soundahfekz said:
I never called you a devils advocate, nor a troll. My post wasn't even addressing you, or anything you've said in this thread. You decided to insert yourself into my post and proceed to tell me my attitude sucks, then because I say I don't give a fuck about your opinion of my attitude I'm being hostile?

If I'm hostile for being annoyed by the tireless redundant cycle of people making the same tired arguments ad nauseam that got others banned already, you're certainly the same for an assertion you directed towards me about my "attitude" without knowing the extent of my and other's exertion in dealing with bullshit in this thread.
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Ya your coming off hostile. Other then that I agree with you.

And btw you weren't addressing anyone specific, but it felt addressed to newcomers of the thread. I probably shouldn't have said anything this is an emotional and sad tragedy. I ll leave you to your posts I really don't have anything else to say about this specific point we are discussing.
 
BobLoblaw said:
Well, before adding you to my ignore list, NO. It still would not be relevant. Zimmerman could not have possibly known that Trayvon and his friend were robbing anything at the time that he shot him. Furthermore, it STILL would not show any aggressive behavior on Trayvon's part.
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Don't tell that other guy we're discussing it, but I agree with you that it wouldn't be relevant to Zimmer. It probably wouldn't be relevant in his trial, unless there is some hearsay exception, but since Zimmer's mens rea wouldn't be affected by what he didn't know about, it would likely only be relevant from the "public opinion" aspect.

But I asked because I thought his phrasing was interesting. There are many evidentiary arguments that information of this type wouldn't be relevant or admissible against zimmer either however in his trial. Which would leave only public opinion as the relevant inquiry, which really has no bearing on reality, other than creating expectation. An interesting legal thought exercise.

=Big Baybee;36530424]lol, What you wanted to discuss has never happened and is not fucking relevant to the case at hand AT ALL. Weren't you and Oatmeal circle jerking for a few pages about only focusing on the facts surrounding this case?
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Gee, if only I had said there's not a single trace of evidence for this. Oh wait, I did. Do you know what a thought experiment or a hypothetical discussion is, and if you do, why do you take them personally? Lawyers do these kinds of thought experiments all of the time. What happens in zimmer's trial if X happens. What if Y were to be shown? What if the facts were Z? The difference is that I clearly label my musings on these possible outcomes as completely made up and then think what they might mean. What I have been criticizing is those who have determined a narrative in advance, and then extrapolated as if there were no possible alternate explanation. I'm sorry you can't see the difference friend.

MIMIC said:
If it WAS found that Trayvon intended to rob a house, how would that be relevant to the night in question, based on what we already know?
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See above. I was asking a hypothetical to dig into the guy I quoted's thought process because I found his point interesting and worth discussing. It should go without saying but apparently didn't because people are projecting a bit here: The facts and circumstances clearly provide ZERO evidence that Trayvon was doing anything within light years of being illegal, I believe he was murdered, and hope to see a most thorough and impartial investigation, followed by an arrest and trial. Something that initially we clearly didn't have at the start, and something I hope is happening now that the corrupt locals are out of the process.

Having an interesting discussion about the facts and circumstances, or pointing out logical leaps and unfounded speculation, or people with cemented narratives at this point in the process does not equate with justifying murder. Hard to understand that for some people I suppose.
 
elrechazao said:
Thought question, and I'm not asking because I believe there is a trace of evidence that this is the case, but if internet detective work found say, a facebook discussion between trayvon and friends that they were robbing houses in that neighborhood, wouldn't it then be relevant under the test you just established for Zimmerman?

The question you raise and the conclusion you come to is based upon the results of the searches, not the validity of searching in the first place.
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I understand your point in principle, but there is a major difference between doing a record search in a proper forum and people coming forward on their own volition to speak on Zimmerman vs hacking a Teens email and social network sites and infiltrating his personal information.

Trayvon had a background check done THAT NIGHT, which yielded no results because there was no record to speak of. The school records? Objectively that can be debated if you're one of the few people who believe that trayvon A) retaliated, and B) was unlawful in his retaliation if applicable. I'm not sure exactly how an empty weed bag implies anything beyond a possible marijuana habit, but for the sake of some semblance of being impartial, I'll play ball. I believe that is where the equivalency ended.

The social network nonsense was pure smear, with some racially motivated and some politically motivated.


Riggs said:
Ya your coming off hostile. Other then that I agree with you.
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I respectfully disagree. Feel free to not engage any of my posts though if you feel that way.
 
oatmeal said:
No but the media caused you to believe that Zimmerman stalked, chased down, fight and subsequently murder a 17 year old boy.
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See, this is the same bullshit Kosmo pulled with his hit & run post about "race hustlers" and how we are "being played"--as if we are all malleable tools of the media at the mercy of their whims. I don't see anyone here like that and it's pretty damn condescending to suggest it.
 
elrechazao said:
Yeah, I'll go ahead and unignore you for a sec, sink to your level a moment, and ask you to fuck off. I can discuss whatever the fuck I want. I found his post very interesting, and I want to discuss it. But thanks for your fantastic fucking contribution.
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forget it. Just can't do this again...
 
We don't really know if zimmerman was a racist or not. The 911 call points to yes, but it is not 100% clear he said a racial slur (only like, 90% clear).

His race is not important as long as it's not a black man.
 
(EDIT)

The amount of people who think they know every detail of what went on that night is downright hilarious.

See, this is the same bullshit Kosmo pulled with his hit & run post about "race hustlers" and how we are "being played"--as if we are all malleable tools of the media at the mercy of their whims. I don't see anyone here like that and it's pretty damn condescending to suggest it.
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Not all, most. The media in this country is atrocious. They will play you for ratings every day of the week.
 
MIMIC said:
LOL, why did you delete your post? I was gonna reply with "this" :)
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Just because man, Its repetitive. I'm sure I can go back a few pages and see someone else saying the same thing. Or hell, me saying the same thing. I know the response it will get.

Trying to not get all heated today, its a nice day.
 
soundahfekz said:
I understand your point in principle, but there is a major difference between doing a record search in a proper forum and people coming forward on their own volition to speak on Zimmerman vs hacking a Teens email and social network sites and infiltrating his personal information.

Trayvon had a background check done THAT NIGHT, which yielded no results because there was no record to speak of. The school records? Objectively that can be debated if you're one of the few people who believe that trayvon A) retaliated, and B) was unlawful in his retaliation if applicable. I'm not sure exactly how an empty weed bag implies anything beyond a possible marijuana habit, but for the sake of some semblance of being impartial, I'll play ball. I believe that is where the equivalency ended.

The social network nonsense was pure smear, with some racially motivated and some politically motivated.
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I have no disagreement with this at all, and never at any point have I suggested that his sealed juvenile records or this silly bag of weed nonsense or which pics of him were or were not put online have any relevance to that night or to this case at all. As I said above, and will say again, I was responding to the point made by another person and the way they made it and wanted to test their reasoning a bit in a friendly discussion.

The litany of "omg not again" posts are shitting this thread up worse than people who are having intelligent discussions.
 
elrechazao said:
I have no disagreement with this at all, and never at any point have I suggested that his sealed juvenile records or this silly bag of weed nonsense or which pics of him were or were not put online have any relevance to that night or to this case at all. As I said above, and will say again, I was responding to the point made by another person and the way they made it and wanted to test their reasoning a bit in a friendly discussion.

The litany of "omg not again" posts are shitting this thread up worse than people who are having intelligent discussions.
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Sealed Juvenile record? Being suspended from school is not having a record.
 
Dram said:
Using fake photos of Trayvon Martin to paint him as a thug.
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Oh, is the bottom right one fake? Honestly, I haven't been following this circus with too close an eye. I do know one thing, the kid in the top right is not what Trayvon Martin looked like the night he got shot. That picture is at least 3 years old.

EDIT: Apologies, that is fake Trayvon. This is the real one:

trayvon-martin.jpg
 
Kosmo said:
Stamp of approval on what, honesty, or at least some semblance of the truth?

The amount of people who think they know every detail of what went on that night is downright hilarious.



Not all, most. The media in this country is atrocious. They will play you for ratings every day of the week.
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This thread. This fucking thread...
 
elrechazao said:
Thought question, and I'm not asking because I believe there is a trace of evidence that this is the case, but if internet detective work found say, a facebook discussion between trayvon and friends that they were robbing houses in that neighborhood, wouldn't it then be relevant under the test you just established for Zimmerman?

The question you raise and the conclusion you come to is based upon the results of the searches, not the validity of searching in the first place.
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What exactly are you basing this hypothetical on and how is it relevant?
 
soundahfekz said:
The social network nonsense was pure smear, with some racially motivated and some politically motivated.
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I'm not sure there is a distinction anymore between racial and political motivation given the modern incarnation of the Republican party.

Kosmo said:
Oh, is the bottom right one fake? Honestly, I haven't been following this circus with too close an eye. I do know one thing, the kid in the top right is not what Trayvon Martin looked like the night he got shot. That picture is at least 3 years old.

EDIT: Apologies, that is fake Trayvon. This is the real one:

trayvon-martin.jpg
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Fascinating. Tell me what you see in this photograph. If you see something menacing, you're doing it wrong.
 
Kosmo said:
Oh, is the bottom right one fake? Honestly, I haven't been following this circus with too close an eye. I do know one thing, the kid in the top right is not what Trayvon Martin looked like the night he got shot. That picture is at least 3 years old.

EDIT: Apologies, that is fake Trayvon. This is the real one:

trayvon-martin.jpg
Click to expand...

JCreasy said:
Recent pictures of Trayvon from February 17, 2012

Confirms what we already knew. He was just a kid. I'm finding it difficult to see him as the violent thug some would want me, and the public at large, to see him as.

http://globalgrind.com/node/829140?gpage=3

trayvon-martin-family-photos-4.jpg


yeah . . .
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Yea.....If you want a pic of older Trayvon, use this one, not the one people are using to try and prove he was a thug.
 
Kosmo said:
Oh, is the bottom right one fake? Honestly, I haven't been following this circus with too close an eye. I do know one thing, the kid in the top right is not what Trayvon Martin looked like the night he got shot. That picture is at least 3 years old.
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The kid has a babyface and practically looked the same in more recent pictures. Regardless Does that change the facts of the case at all?

I feel like people are implying that if it were easy to identify racial stereotypes in Trayvon's images, there'd be less public support for justice to be served.
 
empty vessel said:
I'm not sure there is a distinction anymore between racial and political motivation given the modern incarnation of the Republican party American politics.
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fixed


soundahfekz said:
The kid has a babyface and practically looked the same in more recent pictures. Regardless Does that change the facts of the case at all?

I feel like people are implying that if it were easy to identify racial stereotypes in Trayvon's images, there'd be less public support for justice to be served.
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The case - no, absolutely not. As I have said, I don't think he should have been shot and Zimmerman should not have followed him.

What is does matter for is that we allow the media to play up a narrative that inflames things for the simple sake of ratings. You don't think they would love to cover some race riots this summer? They would fucking love it and cash those advertising checks.
 
Big Baybee said:
Sealed Juvenile record?
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Bad phrasing perhaps - referring to the fact that I had read somewhere that whatever the marijuana "thing" was was meant to be confidential, but was leaked by the police department anyway? In a previous life I dealt extensively with sealed records, so my mind goes to that when thinking of juvenile disciplinary events. I'm not sure why the police would have had this info if it was a school disciplinary situation, but I don't know florida juvi crimlaw, and don't really care, because the point was it's not relevant at all to the night of his murder. So what was your point?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio.../27/gIQAGT8cdS_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

The Sanford Police Department insisted there was no authorized release of the new information but acknowledged there may have been a leak. City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said it would be investigated and the person responsible could be fired.
 
soundahfekz said:
The kid has a babyface and practically looked the same in more recent pictures. Regardless Does that change the facts of the case at all?

I feel like people are implying that if it were easy to identify racial stereotypes in Trayvon's images, there'd be less public support for justice to be served.
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They aren't implying anything at this point. That is what they are saying loud and clear.
 
Man ... all I can say at this point is RIP for this kid and that zimmerman is nervous as fuck right now. He's going to be looking at 2nd degree at the least, if not first. No way he gets away with it imo.
 
commedieu said:
They aren't implying anything at this point. That is what they are saying loud and clear.
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I feel you. I just think that's what Kosmo is getting at without having the mettle to go balls deep.

Then its wondered why many people correlate the republican party with a racist, divisive agenda.
 
Riggs said:
Man ... all I can say at this point is RIP for this kid and that zimmerman is nervous as fuck right now. He's going to be looking at 2nd degree at the least, if not first. No way he gets away with it imo.
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I don't think there's any way a prosecutor pursues a first.*



*In before someone falsely makes an inference about what I think he should or shouldn't be charged with.
 
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