Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
It takes special skills or knowledge to say there were no bruises or other markings they had to cover up while they were preparing his body?
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No, it doesn't take special skills to do that. But people in this thread are trying to suggest the funeral director's statement that he saw no obvious bruises/marks means there weren't any.

A medical examiner would be a bit more adept at truly sussing out those sorts of things. I've seen some crazy examples before of how they know certain things about what happened to a person, based on things most of us would never be aware of.
 
BruiserBear said:
You were suggesting that believing the 911 callers was the equivalent of believing Zimmerman's story. That was a ridiculous thing to say. THAT was my point.
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You keep mentioning Zimmerman had grass on his back, the implication there seems to be that Trayvon mounted him and was beating him. As if it's not possible for both of them to have grass on their backs.
 
BruiserBear said:
You were suggesting that believing the 911 callers was the equivalent of believing "Zimmerman's story". That was a ridiculous thing to say. THAT was my point.
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I'd rather believe the cries for help and the implications of those cries than someone who might see something in the dark.
 
BruiserBear said:
No, it doesn't take special skills to do that. But people in this thread are trying to suggest the funeral director's statement that he saw no obvious bruises/marks means there weren't any.

A medical examiner would be a bit more adept at truly sussing out those sorts of things. I've seen some crazy examples before of how they know certain things about what happened to a person, based on things most of us would never be aware of.
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Wait, so you're saying the bruises/markings can disappear that quickly after death? What?
 
Imm0rt4l said:
You keep mentioning Zimmerman had grass on his back, the implication there seems to be that Trayvon mounted him and was beating him. As if it's not possible for both of them to have grass on their backs.
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Well, now you're going off in a new direction, but whatever.

The officer's notes from the scene don't mention Trayvon having grass on his back. They only mention he is found laying face down.

Make of that what you will.

Roger Danish said:
So your whole purpose in this thread is to police isolated instances of "ridiculous" overstatement?

Carry on, captain.
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If you look at the things I reply to, you'll very quickly notice a pattern. People wanting to make up their own story about what happened. Even creating theories that directly contradict things we already know to be fact. Such as the fact that were was a struggle of some kind.

Then they get upset that I dared to stop them from mindlessly making up their own story and facts about what went down here. Then you get the follow up posts from people about how "angry" this thread makes them. Because someone is actually correcting the bullshit. lol

It's funny, but also kind of sad. This is the age we live in though. When people make up their minds on something, they often let their emotions carry them way down a road far from the actual truth. If you sit and analyze almost any big story in this media age we live in you'll see this happening.

Eclipsis said:
I'd rather believe the cries for help and the implications of those cries than someone who might see something in the dark.
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Emotions over facts. It never ends.


Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Wait, so you're saying the bruises/markings can disappear that quickly after death? What?
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I never suggested anything of the sort.
 
"Memory can change the shape of a room; it can change the color of a car. And memories can be distorted. They're just an interpretation, they're not a record, and they're irrelevant if you have the facts." - Leonard Shelby

All of these discussions on eyewitness accounts, while important, still don't outweigh the FACTS. And looking purely at facts, we can surmise that 1) George Zimmerman is a liar and a murderer and 2) the Sanford Police Department was, if not inept, complicit.

Facts:
George Zimmerman has profiled and called 911 on several "suspicious" black males in the months leading up to the shooting.
George Zimmerman has a long history of aggressiveness and physical confrontations.
George Zimmerman followed Trayvon against the recommendation of the 911 operator.
George Zimmerman has been disproven that he was in an extremely physical altercation with Trayvon based on how he looked 37 minutes after the shooting in the video footage and what the mortician saw on Trayvon's body.
George Zimmerman was NOT the man screaming for help on the 911 call as he and his brother have claimed.

There are several more facts that we do know that haven't been listed, but taking all of the above into consideration, George Zimmerman has proven that he cannot be trusted and that he has a vested interest in fabricating a story. NOTHING that he has said should be considered the truth going forward.
 
BobLoblaw said:
"Memory can change the shape of a room; it can change the color of a car. And memories can be distorted. They're just an interpretation, they're not a record, and they're irrelevant if you have the facts." - Leonard Shelby

All of these discussions on eyewitness accounts, while important, still don't outweigh the FACTS. And looking purely at facts, we can surmise that 1) George Zimmerman is a liar and a murderer and 2) the Sanford Police Department was, if not inept, complicit.

Facts:
George Zimmerman has profiled and called 911 on several "suspicious" black males in the months leading up to the shooting.
George Zimmerman has a long history of aggressiveness and physical confrontations.
George Zimmerman followed Trayvon against the recommendation of the 911 operator.
George Zimmerman has been disproven that he was in an extremely physical altercation with Trayvon based on how he looked 37 minutes after the shooting in the video footage and what the mortician saw on Trayvon's body.
George Zimmerman was NOT the man screaming for help on the 911 call as he and his brother have claimed.

There are several more facts that we do know that haven't been listed, but taking all of the above into consideration, George Zimmerman has proven that he cannot be trusted and that he has a vested interest in fabricating a story. NOTHING that he has said should be considered the truth going forward.
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Have I suggested anything George Zimmerman said was accurate? I'm assuming this was at least partially directed at me.

Hitokage said:
BruiserBear: You seem really invested in a story that, by your own words, you don't see the point of.
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I don't see the point of what?
 
So whatever happened to "John".. and was "John's" alleged 911 call ever made public?

Kind of curious, since I never saw anything else out of this witness.

Also, the worst part is that if they did an actual investigation the night of the incident it would have been pretty easy to put the pieces together of what took place. They fucked that up so bad.
 
NervousXtian said:
So whatever happened to "John".. and was "John's" alleged 911 call ever made public?

Kind of curious, since I never saw anything else out of this witness.

Also, the worst part is that if they did an actual investigation the night of the incident it would have been pretty easy to put the pieces together of what took place. They fucked that up so bad.
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They fucked nothing up of the sort. It was intentional.
 
BruiserBear said:
Well, now you're going off in a new direction, but whatever.

The officer's notes from the scene don't mention Trayvon having grass on his back. They only mention he is found laying face down.

Make of that what you will.



If you look at the things I reply to, you'll very quickly notice a pattern. People wanting to make up their own story about what happened. Even creating theories that directly contradict things we already know to be fact. Such as the fact that were was a struggle of some kind.

Then they get upset that I dared to stop them from mindlessly making up their own story and facts about what went down here. Then you get the follow up posts from people about how "angry" this thread makes them. Because someone is actually correcting the bullshit. lol

It's funny, but also kind of sad. This is the age we live in though. When people make up their minds on something, they often let their emotions carry them way down a road far from the actual truth. If you sit and analyze almost any big story in this media age we live in you'll see this happening.



Emotions over facts. It never ends.




I never suggested anything of the sort.
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Then what are you suggesting? Can you for once just say what you're trying to say instead of your vague comments? You said:

"No, it doesn't take special skills to do that. But people in this thread are trying to suggest the funeral director's statement that he saw no obvious bruises/marks means there weren't any."

The funeral director saying he saw no bruises/marks doesn't mean there weren't any. THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID. You now say it's not what you meant, what did you mean then? Clearly state what you meant. How else could they be there and the funeral director didn't see them?
 
NervousXtian said:
I'm not convinced it was a cover-up, but just complete and utter incompetence. If they wanted to cover it up, they did a terrible terrible job of it.
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I believe he's referring to the fact that the State Attorney said not to press charges despite the lead investigator wanting to charge Zimmerman. Add to the fact that Zimmermans father is a retired judge, this leads many to believe that corruption is a big factor in this case.
 
i'm telling you guys, if you listen to Zimmerman's call after he got out the car and the operator told him not to do that, Zimmerman is talking to the operator and giving him the address and stuff. around that time, you hear a loud "CLICK" and then a few seconds later you here him grabbing what could possibly be bullets.

i just want to make sure i'm not hearing things you know. it may not be that but i can't think of what else it could be.
 
Imm0rt4l said:
Why the story is getting so much attention for one.... your words.
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Oh, what I said in my first post in this thread, on March 21st? I asked the question, because I wasn't aware of the entire story at that point.


Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Then what are you suggesting? Can you for once just say what you're trying to say instead of your vague comments? You said:

"No, it doesn't take special skills to do that. But people in this thread are trying to suggest the funeral director's statement that he saw no obvious bruises/marks means there weren't any."

The funeral director saying he saw no bruises/marks doesn't mean there weren't any. THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID. You now say it's not what you meant, what did you mean then? Clearly state what you meant. How else could they be there and the funeral director didn't see them?
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Vague comments? lmfao

You asked me about bruises/marks disappearing. I never said anything even remotely suggesting that.

I said I don't take a funeral director's opinions on such things as credibly was I would a criminal pathologist. Someone trained to examine a body for such things, and someone capable of seeing evidence that doesn't just smack you in the face, like a huge bruises, cuts, etc.

I only said that in response to people who are taking this funeral director's comments as fact, and running wild with it, suggesting there was no struggle, etc. When we know there was a struggle, due to 911 calls saying they saw a struggle, etc.
 
BruiserBear said:
Oh, what I said in my first post in this thread, on March 21st? I asked the question, because I wasn't aware of the entire story at that point.




Vague comments? lmfao

You asked me about bruises/marks disappearing. I never said anything even remotely suggesting that.

I said I don't take a funeral director's opinions on such things as credibly was I would a criminal pathologist. Someone trained to examine a body for such things, and someone capable of seeing evidence that doesn't just smack you in the face, like a huge bruises, cuts, etc.

I only said that in response to people who are taking this funeral director's comments as fact, and running wild with it, suggesting there was no struggle, etc. When we know there was a struggle, due to 911 calls saying they saw a struggle, etc.
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Except you completely throw out the funeral director's evidence by repeating that. Vague in that before you said it didn't take special skill to search for bruises/marks but apparently it is now again for you. You can either see them or you can't, you're just flip flopping.
 
Sentry said:
You forgot 'stupid facebook post that most of gaf acknowledges as such but one gaffer agrees with' bit. Other than that, jeezumlordmerci—why I stay clear of this thread now.
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I won't even bother to acknowledge facebook in that graphic and would prefer it if people didn't even post the stupid shit that ends up in their feeds on GAF.
 
Loudninja said:
Trayvon Martin case exposes worst in media
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html
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Just came here to post this.


1. After ABC News aired surveillance video of George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, entering a police precinct without any apparent injuries, the Daily Caller treated the tape like a Zapruder film, enhancing still images from the video and concluding that it found "what may be an injury to the back of his head." The site's photo "analysis" of the back of Zimmerman's head--replete with yellow Photoshopped arrows--"indicates what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long."
Keep in mind, this is the same Daily Caller that published 152 pages of what the conservative site claims were Martin's tweets--which, if they were, prove that Martin was a pretty typical high school male, preoccupied with girls, sex and getting out of class early.
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Its already been determined that the "wound" the showed was a shadow. Im not for sure whats hes getting at here?

2. NBC told the Washington Post that it has launched an internal investigation of the "Today" show's editorial process after its morning show aired an edited conversation between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher recorded moments before the shooting. The investigation came after Fox News and others pointed out that the network spliced two parts of the call together, making it appear as if Zimmerman had said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." In reality, Zimmerman was answering a dispatcher's question:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy--is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
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The only legit example. Terrible. Although it did make me LOL that fox investigated it.

3. In an flailing effort to break news in a month-old shooting, CBS News aired an interview with Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who handled Trayvon Martin's burial.
"There were no physical signs like there had been a scuffle," Kurtz declared, which the network said proves Zimmerman's claims of a violent encounter with Martin before the shooting are false. "The hands--I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there. He looked perfectly normal to me when he came in and the story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight in anything that we could see."
Except, he said, the gunshot wound.
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The hell? Somehow the gunshot wound makes the media liers?


So in recap this guy creates an article about how bad the media is in the trayvon martin case and how it brings out the worst in them and creates a terrible article himself......
 
BruiserBear said:
This thread is maddening to read. I literally need to stay away, because I don't want to waste my time correcting people.

Have you listened to all the 911 calls? Because I have, and several people talk of SEEING two guys scuffling on the ground. One even mentions one guy on top of another, and the guy on top had a "white shirt".

Trayvon was wearing a gray hoodie. Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket.

Trayvon was shot in the front chest (from what we know right now), but was found face down.

The first officer on the scene noted the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and had grass on it.

If people are going to speculate on theories, that's fine, but at least make sure your theory fits with the things we already know.
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And do you know what zimmerman was wearing under his jacket? a white/light grey shirt....

Trayvon was apparently only wearing a dark grey hoodie.
 
Yep Glad you guys found it as stupid as I did.

Number 2 is the only legit, all he doing is making it worst with a garbage article.\

Huh you know what I think some people are actually upset that the media is focusing on this.
 
BruiserBear, I think you need to dial it back a bit. There is no real point in arguing facts over an tragic indecent which I think we both agreed was due to Zimmerman chasing a boy with a gun. Most of the people in this thread had made their decision of what went down from the first story and have pretty much jumped on any news item that supported that viewpoint, substantiated or not. You're not going to change anyone's mind when there is any possibility of anything being left to interpretation. I just read someone say that Zimmerman might of hit himself and caused his own wounds. If he would come up with that instead of saying maybe Trayvon hit him with an elbow, do you really think he would want to look at this situation impartially?

Arguing the facts here is pointless because so many of them are missing. In the end this is for the courts to decide. But also as mentioned earlier it is going to be hard because the burden of proof of intent will be very hard. But I will be sad if he does not at least get manslaughter.

Finally, while I understand why you want to point these things out, it's pretty obvious that people are finding it offensive. I think that is mostly due to the profiling of Trayvon which started the events in motion.


I also wanted to answer a couple questions that were asked. Don't get mad at me or attack me for it or say I am siding with Zimmerman, please. I have already said it was his fault.


The reason why it was probably not the best idea to get information from the funeral home director is that he and his company are employed by the family of the victim. Also as stated before the person has not been trained in forensic pathology.

The reason why gun groups would want to support Zimmerman is the fact that this case could have far reaching implications of the responsibility of anyone carrying a firearm.
 
Honestly, I'm still pissed about a fake photo posted on Stormfront being picked up by actual news organizations. Fucking Stormfront. But you know, even though we're using photos from a white supremacy organization, this isn't about race.
 
commedieu said:
No...

NO...

What?

Did he fall off a bridge into a stage coach afterward..? Ugh. For the love of... No way the cops told him thats what their son said. No way.
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goldmarx%20cb%20shot.jpg
 
Sanford police apparently believed it or believe it enough to tell Trayvon's father....so insensitive.
I would be angry and sad at the same time.
 
BruiserBear said:
I said I don't take a funeral director's opinions on such things as credibly was I would a criminal pathologist. Someone trained to examine a body for such things, and someone capable of seeing evidence that doesn't just smack you in the face, like a huge bruises, cuts, etc.

I only said that in response to people who are taking this funeral director's comments as fact, and running wild with it, suggesting there was no struggle, etc. When we know there was a struggle, due to 911 calls saying they saw a struggle, etc.
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FYI that is a coroner's job. Coroner's can't see bruises now?
 
Quote:
Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back.

If he's falling back, why was his face down on the grass? Stupid SPD.
 
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/trayvon-martin-case-department-of-justice-to-investigate-2266580.html

The Trayvon Martin case is bringing more scrutiny on the Sanford Police Department. The Department of Justice will now investigate all cases handled by the police department, after receiving complaints from Sanford citizens.

It's been more than a month since 17-year-old Martin was killed and only a week since the Department of Justice, the U.S. Attorney's Office and the FBI launched investigations into why George Zimmerman shot him. Now, the Department of Justice is launching another investigation into the entire Sanford Police Department.

Bonaparte announced the new investigation Tuesday afternoon after receiving numerous complaints about the way officers handled other cases.

He said that so many people complained at Monday night's city commission meeting about Sanford officers, the city asked the Department of Justice to step in.

"I am now in the process of talking with the Department of Justice and instituting a mechanism whereby citizens that have concerns or complaints about the Sanford Police Department can have their concerns heard and investigated by an independent agency," Bonaparte said.

After complaints surfaced in Los Angeles and Pittsburgh, the Department of Justice found a pattern of civil rights abuse. Then, it completely took over the departments and entered into "consent decrees" to improve them. The Department of Justice took over the department in LA for eight years and in Pittsburgh for four.

Sanford officials will not know what this will mean for its police force until the Department of Justice tells them what it found.

The Department of Justice has not announced a sweeping investigation yet.
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http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/zimmerman-dad-worked-as-magistrate

We obtained a copy of George Zimmerman’s application to join the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy.

In it, Zimmerman writes that his “father is a retired Magistrate Judge for the supreme court (sic) of Virginia.”

We then contacted the Virginia Supreme Court to confirm Robert Zimmerman’s employment.

Kristi Wright with the Department of Legislative and Public Relations wrote us this email in response:

“Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered "judges" and do not possess trial jurisdiction. More detailed information on the role of the magistrate in Virginia is available on Virginia's Judicial System Website .”
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Zimmerman's job application

http://www.scribd.com/heidi_vries/d/87064208-George-Zimmerman%E2%80%99s-application-for-the-Citizens-Police-Academy-in-2008

Zimmerman goes into detail about his arrest for assaulting an officer.
 
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