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[BruiserBear]

Jesus Christ.

FACT: Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon

FACT: Trayvon was a skinny 17 year old minding his own business that night

FACT: Trayvon was not doing anything illegal that night

FACT: Trayvon was unnarmed

FACT: Zimmerman was armed

FACT: Trayvon would still be alive today if Zimmerman did not stalk and confront him.

You guys are assholes and absolutely disgusting people.

Hey guyz. Look at how fun it is to pop into a thread and make outraged statements about unspecified people.

It's funny that for rigid logic gaf, even scientific proof isn't enough now whereas it was before it further incriminated Zimmerman. I'm not so sure it's the people in this thread who want to see justice served that have the agenda.

Again, a broad statement about a group of people. In this case "science gaf". If two people argue about it, all of you are in the same boat!

Can we at least ask that if people are going to throw an outrage post, they should at least have to make it clear who they're upset with? Is that really too much to ask?

Then again, the term "Zimmerman defenders" has been so broadly defined in this thread, that even those who believe Zimmerman is a scumbag who should go to jail are also labeled as "defenders". To say this thread has been unique would be an understatement.

 

[demigod]

Not talking about the enhanced image, but the stupid "enhanced" video of when he got to the police station. It's not more damning of an injury then the pretty crap video was of proving there was no injury.

The only thing to prove it either way is actual pictures, and we don't have them. The police reports are questionable, we all know this.



Makes perfect sense he'd stop screaming if it was Zimmerman, he just shot someone. He'd be in shock. Also on the 2nd part, I've seen someone getting beaten before and they were yelling/screaming the whole time. It's not a pretty sight, and it didn't seem to effect their screams that they were being kicked while lying down.



I can't wait for the real evidence to come out, so we can focus on that and see Zimmerman go to trial.

No, it makes zero sense and i've already explained why. If he's screaming for help, he should've still screamed for help after shooting someone, he should've screamed out "help i just shot someone, call the cops." Also like Boblaw said, If Zimmerman was getting his ass beat to a bloody pulp, he would continue to scream for help since he's bleeding out the ass. Why don't you go out and do this. Scream out loud, then have a friend smash your head onto concrete while punching you in the face and tell me if your screams are exactly the same. I guarantee you that it won't be the same.

 

[ElFly]

April 10th.

April 10th.

kthx

That's pretty soon.

 

[Roger Danish]

Why don't you go out and do this. Scream out loud, then have a friend smash your head onto concrete while punching you in the face and tell me if your screams are exactly the same. I guarantee you that it won't be the same.

Excellent point. The only way we can be sure is to have someone reenact the event by pinning Zimmerman to the ground and smashing his head into concrete for forty seconds, while recording his screams from four different microphones, then have Owen run voice analysis on these various samples against the original.

But we should probably repeat the test another six or seven times just to be sure.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Hey guyz. Look at how fun it is to pop into a thread and make outraged statements about unspecified people.

Pop into a thread? I've been posting in this thread from the very beginning.

I think the people I made the statement against, know who they are.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

kthx

That's pretty soon.

I hope they fry his ass & take the incompetent cops/prosecutors with him.

 

[NervousXtian]

Why? Does listening to his screams offer you some sick satisfaction? Pervert!

Really unnecessary, and this type of attack does nothing to further the conversation. It's 4Chan level at best. You cut off the other sentence.

So now I've been called a pervert, an asshole, and disgusting.

And this from people who want the same outcome as me. Sad that some have resorted to insults instead of discussion.

 

[bro1]

Can LegalGaf answer a question I have about Stand Your Ground laws?

If I start a fight with someone and escape, can I go get a gun and shoot that person because I still feel threatened? It seems like the law rewards people for getting into physical altercations they can't handle.

 

[NervousXtian]

Can LegalGaf answer a question I have about Stand Your Ground laws?

If I start a fight with someone and escape, can I go get a gun and shoot that person because I still feel threatened? It seems like the law rewards people for getting into physical altercations they can't handle.

If you successfully retreated, you are no longer under threat of death or great bodily harm.

 

[equap]

Hey guyz. Look at how fun it is to pop into a thread and make outraged statements about unspecified people.

doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

[Dali]

If you successfully retreated, you are no longer under threat of death or great bodily harm.

But you know the guy you were just in the fight with and he holds grudges. He had a look in his eyes like "this isn't the end of this" when you walked away. He knows where you live and has a history of violence so you go get your gun then plug him with two in the chest just to be sure. The whole time you were scared to death... paranoid if you will... only unlike in Zimmerman's case you actually have knowledge of this guys violent criminal past. Would that be legal?

 

[bro1]

But you know the guy you were just in the fight with and he holds grudges. He had a look in his eyes like "this isn't the end of this" when you walked away. He knows where you live and has a history of violence so you go get your gun then plug him with two in the chest just to be sure. The whole time you were scared to death... paranoid if you will... only unlike in Zimmerman's case you actually have knowledge of this guys violent criminal past. Would that be legal?

Exactly my point. If you get your ass kicked in a fight and feel scared, this law allows you to basically get revenge. Why call the police and let them deal with it? You feel threatened so shoot him.

 

[Bleepey]

I'd like to see that gif.

 

[NervousXtian]

But you know the guy you were just in the fight with and he holds grudges. He had a look in his eyes like "this isn't the end of this" when you walked away. He knows where you live and has a history of violence so you go get your gun then plug him with two in the chest just to be sure. The whole time you were scared to death... paranoid if you will... only unlike in Zimmerman's case you actually have knowledge of this guys violent criminal past. Would that be legal?

That would be revenge, not standing your ground. You'd be pretty fucked. You'd have to wait for the guy to try and get his revenge to then stand your ground again.

 

[samus i am]

Exactly my point. If you get your ass kicked in a fight and feel scared, this law allows you to basically get revenge. Why call the police and let them deal with it? You feel threatened so shoot him.

No, you would have to kill him right then and there, when the fight started.

 

[Dali]

That would be revenge, not standing your ground. You'd be pretty fucked. You'd have to wait for the guy to try and get his revenge to then stand your ground again.

So if you walked back in the bar with the gun concealed and started the fight again, you'd be golden?

 

[bro1]

No, you would have to kill him right then and there, when the fight started.

What about that case in Texas where a man sees his neighbor's house getting robbed, calls 911, tells them that he is going to get his shot gun, and then goes outside of his house and kills both of the guys robbing his neighbors house? He got off by using the stand your ground law. He said that he felt threatned and shot them.

 

[KHarvey16]

What about that case in Texas where a man sees his neighbor's house getting robbed, calls 911, tells them that he is going to get his shot gun, and then goes outside of his house and kills both of the guys robbing his neighbors house? He got off by using the stand your ground law. He said that he felt threatned and shot them.

You can act in your own defense or the defense of others. If he felt his neighbor's lives were in danger during the course of those men committing a crime, most stand your ground laws cover the use of deadly force. Haven't read the Texas law though.

 

[NervousXtian]

What about that case in Texas where a man sees his neighbor's house getting robbed, calls 911, tells them that he is going to get his shot gun, and then goes outside of his house and kills both of the guys robbing his neighbors house? He got off by using the stand your ground law. He said that he felt threatned and shot them.

Castle Doctrine.

In states that allow it you can stop people robbing your house, or in this case a friends house.

Similar but different from Stand-your-ground, as SYG is an extension of Castle Doctrine to include any place you are rightfully able to be.

So if you walked back in the bar with the gun concealed and started the fight again, you'd be golden?

You'd be fucked, you can't provoke/start the fight.

 

[bro1]

You can act in your own defense or the defense of others. If he felt his neighbor's lives were in danger during the course of those men committing a crime, most stand your ground laws cover the use of deadly force. Haven't read the Texas law though.

Neighbors won't home, the guy knew this, and the robbers were fleeing. this law is stupid and needs to be rewritten.

 

[KHarvey16]

Neighbors won't home, the guy knew this, and the robbers were fleeing. this law is stupid and needs to be rewritten.

If they were actually fleeing that's usually a case where neither stand your ground nor a castle doctrine apply.

 

[Dali]

You'd be fucked, you can't provoke/start the fight.

So Zimmerman's gonna get his ass stuffed upstate for the next 15 to life then?

If they were actually fleeing that's usually a case where neither stand your ground nor a castle doctrine apply.

That's why it was such a big deal. The neighbor calmly said "boom your dead" as he was firing at the fleeing thieves. Hardly something someone in fear of their life would do.

 

[bro1]

Castle Doctrine.

In states that allow it you can stop people robbing your house, or in this case a friends house.

Similar but different from Stand-your-ground, as SYG is an extension of Castle Doctrine to include any place you are rightfully able to be.



You'd be fucked, you can't provoke/start the fight.

Then isn't Zimmerman guilty as he provoked the fight?

Would Treyvone be allowed to kill Zimmerman because he felt threatened by the guy following him?

Taken to an extreme, wouldn't this law allow for pistol duels? Both men feel threatned by the other, so they shot each other? As long as they owned the guns legally of course.

 

[NervousXtian]

Then isn't Zimmerman guilty as he provoked the fight?

Morally, yes.. legally.. it's up in the air right now. Following him might not = provoking a fight legally. Obviously more took place, but the following in and of itself might not be enough to convict Zimmerman on provoking the fight.

Would Treyvone be allowed to kill Zimmerman because he felt threatened by the guy following him?

If Zimmerman started using force against Trayvon, then yes. Just for following him? No.

Taken to an extreme, wouldn't this law allow for pistol duels? Both men feel threatned by the other, so they shot each other? As long as they owned the guns legally of course.

Who pulled the gun first, and for what reason? Someone started it.

 

[Hex]

Hey guyz. Look at how fun it is to pop into a thread and make outraged statements about unspecified people.



Again, a broad statement about a group of people. In this case "science gaf". If two people argue about it, all of you are in the same boat!

Can we at least ask that if people are going to throw an outrage post, they should at least have to make it clear who they're upset with? Is that really too much to ask?

Then again, the term "Zimmerman defenders" has been so broadly defined in this thread, that even those who believe Zimmerman is a scumbag who should go to jail are also labeled as "defenders". To say this thread has been unique would be an understatement.

Jesus Christ.

FACT: Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon

FACT: Trayvon was a skinny 17 year old minding his own business that night

FACT: Trayvon was not doing anything illegal that night

FACT: Trayvon was unnarmed

FACT: Zimmerman was armed

FACT: Trayvon would still be alive today if Zimmerman did not stalk and confront him.

BruiserBear is an asshole and absolutely disgusting people.

Better?
I do not know if you are his target, may not be but why put it on the spot?

Vague targeting does not change the facts.
Funny how people keep trying to do that, skip past the facts to make it about other stupidity.

4/10 should be rather interesting.
Grand Jury, Captivate Embargo ends.

 

[samus i am]

This is a great article for anyone that wants to read up on the stand your ground law:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1128317.ece

 

[BattleMonkey]

I hope they fry his ass & take the incompetent cops/prosecutors with him.

Well that's not for the grand jury to do, they simply will potentially indict him. And to "fry his ass", they would need a 1st degree murder charge, and there is no way hes going to get convicted or likely indicted for that.

 

[samus i am]

After reading that article, it seems like Zimmerman has a good chance of getting off.

 

[Hex]

After reading that article, it seems like Zimmerman has a good chance of getting off.

The sad truth is that this whole thing has grown so out of hand in the press with he said - she said and half truths that anything can happen.

 

[LuCkymoON]

You can act in your own defense or the defense of others. If he felt his neighbor's lives were in danger during the course of those men committing a crime, most stand your ground laws cover the use of deadly force. Haven't read the Texas law though.

the neighbors were not home at the time and he had knowledge of this fact.

 

[Big Baybee]

the neighbors were not home at the time and he had knowledge of this fact.

And he shot them both in the back as they were running away. He wasn't charged and it was a big fucking deal for a while.

 

[Vicetrailia]

And he shot them both in the back as they were running away. He wasn't charged and it was a big fucking deal for a while.

Crazy. He told the police operator numerous times that he would kill them.

 

[ElFly]

The feds are doing a parallel investigation.

Gonna guess that if Zimmerman walks, they will just say that Zimmerman said "coons" in that tape and charge him with a hate crime.

 

[BruiserBear]

After reading that article, it seems like Zimmerman has a good chance of getting off.

Zimmerman's wounds were not substantial, so I just don't see how that happens.

The feds are doing a parallel investigation.

Gonna guess that if Zimmerman walks, they will just say that Zimmerman said "coons" in that tape and charge him with a hate crime.

I disagree. I think the federal investigation is mostly for show.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The feds are doing a parallel investigation.

Gonna guess that if Zimmerman walks, they will just say that Zimmerman said "coons" in that tape and charge him with a hate crime.

pretty sure that if the Grand Jury decides against going to trial, that'll be the end of the road.

Zimmerman's wounds were not substantial, so I just don't see how that happens.

strictly speaking, wounds don't have to be "substantial" in order for you to feel your life is in jeopardy.

 

[Big Baybee]

Zimmerman's wounds were not substantial, so I just don't see how that happens.

If it goes to trial, there is a huge chance he will get off. Its Florida.

 

[ElFly]

pretty sure that if the Grand Jury decides against going to trial, that'll be the end of the road.

I thought that hate crime was a federal offense. Can they just skip the state and go directly for a federal offense?

strictly speaking, wounds don't have to be "substantial" in order for you to feel your life is in jeopardy.

Trayvon started running away from Zimmerman. IIRC SYG covers you if you fear for your life, which should cover Trayvon even if he attacked Zimmerman. I don't know if both parties can claim SYG.

 

[BruiserBear]

strictly speaking, wounds don't have to be "substantial" in order for you to feel your life is in jeopardy.

I think you need to prove your life was in danger.

Personally, I think that audio of screaming is literally the lynchpin that decides this case. If it can be proven, with near certainty that it's not Zimmerman screaming, I think he's guilty.

How could someone claim self defense when the dead guy was screaming for help the whole time?

If it goes to trial, there is a huge chance he will get off. Its Florida.

Well, you've got a point there. I thought Casey Anthony was guilty as hell, but she wasn't convicted.

 

[Angry Fork]

Zimmerman gets acquitted = LA riots.

There's no way this guy is going free. He's guilty anyway, but just saying.

 

[ElFly]

I think you need to prove your life was in danger.

The law says that

He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

 

[BruiserBear]

The law says that

Well, I would think "reasonably believes" is another way of saying "you'd better have a good reason".

Again, if Trayvon was yelling for help, I think Zimmerman is screwed.

 

[Allard]

Zimmerman gets acquitted = LA riots.

There's no way this guy is going free. He's guilty anyway, but just saying.

Yeah riots are my worst fear over this at this point. Given the laws in effect right now and the states long standing national judicial history for controversy; even if I think he is guilty as holy hell there is still enough potential 'doubt' to get him acquitted. The absolute minimum that needs to be taken from this controversy is either a full repeal or drastic alteration to the 'stand your ground' law in effect.

I'm still emotional attached to this case, but not in the final result of it, I'm emotional because Charges STILL haven't been filed yet against Zimmerman in what is reasonable doubt of his self defense claim and a trial by jury or judge should at least be held and still hasn't yet. Its why all of us are so emotional about it, we judge him because no one else of authority has decided to take it up in a balanced capacity.

 

[Malik77]

Is it weird that I am less interested in the Zimmerman's court case and more interested in seeing justice brought against the PD/DA/whoever tried to sweep this tragedy under the rug?

 

[Devolution]

Is it weird that I am less interested in the Zimmerman's court case and more interested in seeing justice brought against the PD/DA/whoever tried to sweep this tragedy under the rug?

Not really. If nothing happens to them what's to stop a similar incident from occurring again?

 

[empty vessel]

This is a great article for anyone that wants to read up on the stand your ground law:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1128317.ece

From the article: "You need only to 'reasonably believe' that pulling the trigger or plunging the knife or swinging the bat is necessary to stop the other person from hurting you."

That is not an accurate description of the law. You have to reasonably fear death or "grievous bodily injury." Not merely "getting hurt." And, moreover, what circumstances cause fear of that to be "reasonable" is something for a judge and/or jury to determine. I'm not trying to defend the law here, as I think these pro-vigilante laws should be repealed, but the law is only as forgiving as those charged with enforcing it (prosecutors, judges, and even citizens on a jury) allow for it to be.

 

[ReBurn]

I thought that hate crime was a federal offense. Can they just skip the state and go directly for a federal offense?



Trayvon started running away from Zimmerman. IIRC SYG covers you if you fear for your life, which should cover Trayvon even if he attacked Zimmerman. I don't know if both parties can claim SYG.

Only one party is claiming Stand Your Ground. The other party is currently deceased and can no longer defend himself.

 

[Loudninja]

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Lawyer Cites 'Shaken Baby Syndrome' As Defense

But Uhrig's choice of words, and use of a recognized sign of child abuse to defend a 28-year-old man who killed a kid, seemed likely to raise more than just a few eyebrows.

"We're familiar with the Shaken Baby Syndrome," said Uhrig on the CBS This Morning program. "You shake a baby, the brain shakes around inside the skull. You can die when someone's pounding your head into the ground."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/george-zimmerman-shaken-baby_n_1408421.html

Wow his lawyers are complete morons.

 

[mannerbot]

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Lawyer Cites 'Shaken Baby Syndrome' As Defense

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/george-zimmerman-shaken-baby_n_1408421.html

Wow his lawyers are complete morons.

lmao, you can't make this shit up. Amazing.

 

[ReBurn]

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Lawyer Cites 'Shaken Baby Syndrome' As Defense

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/george-zimmerman-shaken-baby_n_1408421.html

Wow his lawyers are complete morons.

Makes sense. Not as a defense, but it makes sense.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Lawyer Cites 'Shaken Baby Syndrome' As Defense

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/george-zimmerman-shaken-baby_n_1408421.html

Wow his lawyers are complete morons.

I just sat up slowly in my chair, eyes round as saucers.

i just can't

gonna ly dow now