Fate/Zero TV |OT| Now 100% mollusk free!

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duckroll said:
How about this one?

KJ21a.jpg
Click to expand...

That one is incredibly badass as well, but I like the armored look more than the suit look, despite the coolness of the motorcycle.

edit -

damn.. looking at the detailed shots on their website.. I may be tempted by this one..
 
Fate/Zero 15

Rider
taking lead
like Rider should!

Ummm, Kariya
you know that Bug Swarm WASN'T working...right?

I will say again that, I love
"Mad DOG"!

Also Saber
finally did something "cool."
A cookie you shall be given...but still doesn't help your ranking on my list!

Decent episode.
 
Great episode, as usual.

Gilgamesh already eluding to what he eventually wants to do with Saber, heh.

Other than that, poor Kariya... it's worse when you already know the outcome based on FSN :(
 
Kagari said:
Great episode, as usual.

Gilgamesh already eluding to what he eventually wants to do with Saber, heh.

Other than that, poor Kariya... it's worse when you already know the outcome based on FSN :(
Click to expand...

With the exception of Uryuu, I enjoy all the masters. They all bring something unique to the table. Can't wait for the next episode.
It should be episode 4 continued.
 
kayos90 said:
With the exception of Uryuu, I enjoy all the masters. They all bring something unique to the table. Can't wait for the next episode.
It should be episode 4 continued.
Click to expand...

Ryuunosuke
was soooo pointless. Glad he was the first to go. Other than that, I never liked Kirei either, not even in FSN.
 
Some thoughts on Episode 15:

The direction in general wasn't as sharp as last week's episode, but it was still pretty entertaining. There were some things I didn't particularly like about it though. The way certain events are handled felt a bit rushed and weak.

The confrontation between Kariya and Tokiomi in particular was handled very poorly imo. I get the intention that they want to show there's a huge gulf in ability between the two of them, and that Kariya is just a suicidal guy with no real chance at all, but the way it was presented wasn't exciting and just felt stupid after all the build up from last week. It was just lame.

The Berserker stuff was pretty interesting, and it's quite a feat when you consider that it actually took three Servants to basically takes him out of action in the end. Saber as a decoy, Lancer as a melee striker, and Archer striking him from the back while he was focused on Saber. It definitely made him feel like a worthy and dangerous foe, and that should play out well in the future as well.

Loved the dialogue between Archer and Rider at the end. They should definitely do more talking on the show, since that's the main reason I watch this to begin with. The action is just extra eye candy gravy. :)
 
duckroll said:
Some thoughts on Episode 15:

The direction in general wasn't as sharp as last week's episode, but it was still pretty entertaining. There were some things I didn't particularly like about it though. The way certain events are handled felt a bit rushed and weak.

The confrontation between Kariya and Tokiomi in particular was handled very poorly imo. I get the intention that they want to show there's a huge gulf in ability between the two of them, and that Kariya is just a suicidal guy with no real chance at all, but the way it was presented wasn't exciting and just felt stupid after all the build up from last week. It was just lame.

The Berserker stuff was pretty interesting, and it's quite a feat when you consider that it actually took three Servants to basically takes him out of action in the end. Saber as a decoy, Lancer as a melee striker, and Archer striking him from the back while he was focused on Saber. It definitely made him feel like a worthy and dangerous foe, and that should play out well in the future as well.

Loved the dialogue between Archer and Rider at the end. They should definitely do more talking on the show, since that's the main reason I watch this to begin with. The action is just extra eye candy gravy. :)
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with this. I think despite what a lot of people say, the talking scenes are one of the best. I mean look at episode 11. That's a prime example of awesome. Having said that, the action was awesome but everything else was okay. I actually felt that it fell under the same type as Episode 5. Lots of great action and such but everything else was just okay.

EDIT: Oh I forgot. Music was freaking awesome. This upcoming OST is going to be so good.
 
kayos90 said:
I pretty much agree with this. I think despite what a lot of people say, the talking scenes are one of the best. I mean look at episode 11. That's a prime example of awesome. Having said that, the action was awesome but everything else was okay. I actually felt that it fell under the same type as Episode 5. Lots of great action and such but everything else was just okay.

EDIT: Oh I forgot. Music was freaking awesome. This upcoming OST is going to be so good.
Click to expand...

My biggest beef with the big "battles" in Fate/Zero so far is that
they are set up such that the promise of the possible outcome is never able to be met because they have to keep the characters alive to keep the story going. It's true for every single major action set piece in the show so far: ep4-5, ep7-8, and now ep14-15. They put a bunch of characters together and have them come very close to killing each other, and then pull some plot armor crap to keep most of them or all of them alive.

Sometimes the plot armor makes sense, and it's satisfying to me, like the Avalon plot revelation. But other times it doesn't really work, like when Caster just escapes the forest, or Rider deciding to trample Berserker JUST as Kiritsugu is about to shoot Kayneth, or Tokiomi somehow not bothering to completely finish Kariya off, etc.

It feel that scenes like that cheapen the consequences in the story, and weaken it on a whole. I like it when the story just decides to go with the consequences and make them count, like Kayneth being unable to recover from the shot, and the master/servant relationship being forced to change. Change is good because it keeps the audience guessing and keeps the story interesting. But when characters survive regardless, only to come back to fight another day, it weakens the appeal of the action set pieces.
 
duckroll said:
My biggest beef with the big "battles" in Fate/Zero so far is that
they are set up such that the promise of the possible outcome is never able to be met because they have to keep the characters alive to keep the story going. It's true for every single major action set piece in the show so far: ep4-5, ep7-8, and now ep14-15. They put a bunch of characters together and have them come very close to killing each other, and then pull some plot armor crap to keep most of them or all of them alive.

Sometimes the plot armor makes sense, and it's satisfying to me, like the Avalon plot revelation. But other times it doesn't really work, like when Caster just escapes the forest, or Rider deciding to trample Berserker JUST as Kiritsugu is about to shoot Kayneth, or Tokiomi somehow not bothering to completely finish Kariya off, etc.

It feel that scenes like that cheapen the consequences in the story, and weaken it on a whole. I like it when the story just decides to go with the consequences and make them count, like Kayneth being unable to recover from the shot, and the master/servant relationship being forced to change. Change is good because it keeps the audience guessing and keeps the story interesting. But when characters survive regardless, only to come back to fight another day, it weakens the appeal of the action set pieces.
Click to expand...

True. As for Kariya, we're not sure if there is a consequence or not though so we can't judge on that just yet. However, I sort of agree with your other points. I guess I'm more forgiving of some of the plot armor because it makes sense to me such as Rider rolling over Berserker in episode 5. Regardless, many of the big battles tend to be non-battle royales despite it being a huge mosh pit of Heroes. It's always Lancer and Saber together. Always Berserker vs. Archer. Rider is in there somewere. And always Caster screwing things up. That's been the pace of every single big fight sequences. Since characters are starting to die off, I think we should see a deviation from this consistent fight layout.
 
kayos90 said:
True. As for Kariya, we're not sure if there is a consequence or not though so we can't judge on that just yet. However, I sort of agree with your other points. I guess I'm more forgiving of some of the plot armor because it makes sense to me such as Rider rolling over Berserker in episode 5. Regardless, many of the big battles tend to be non-battle royales despite it being a huge mosh pit of Heroes. It's always Lancer and Saber together. Always Berserker vs. Archer. Rider is in there somewere. And always Caster screwing things up. That's been the pace of every single big fight sequences. Since characters are starting to die off, I think we should see a deviation from this consistent fight layout.
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I don't have a problem with Rider trampling over Berserker. It makes sense for him to want to stop it. What I dislike is the way it is presented, where they draw the audience expectations in that something with major consequences is about to occur, only to go JUST KIDDING right at the last moment. That sort of "suspense" is cheap, and a very weak and low-level direction. I like the show a lot, but I think moments like this cheapens the overall work bit by bit.
 
duckroll said:
I don't have a problem with Rider trampling over Berserker. It makes sense for him to want to stop it. What I dislike is the way it is presented, where they draw the audience expectations in that something with major consequences is about to occur, only to go JUST KIDDING right at the last moment. That sort of "suspense" is cheap, and a very weak and low-level direction. I like the show a lot, but I think moments like this cheapens the overall work bit by bit.
Click to expand...

I guess. It's more impactful, dramatic, and effective the way they did it in the show but I can see why you view it your way. I don't really view it as JUST KIDDING but as a set up for, "I wonder what's going to happen to prevent this" if anything.
 
kayos90 said:
I guess. It's more impactful, dramatic, and effective the way they did it in the show but I can see why you view it your way. I don't really view it as JUST KIDDING but as a set up for, "I wonder what's going to happen to prevent this" if anything.
Click to expand...

I don't find that sort of thing dramatic though, I find it overdramatic and cheap. It's just like in dramas when they do close-ups and play loud sad music when something "sad" is happening and they try to create this overwhelming mood of "you should be feeling this way" direction. I hate that sort of stuff because it's the cheapest and most overused form of dramatization. In action and suspense directing, this would be the same equivalent.
 
duckroll said:
I don't find that sort of thing dramatic though, I find it overdramatic and cheap. It's just like in dramas when they do close-ups and play loud sad music when something "sad" is happening and they try to create this overwhelming mood of "you should be feeling this way" direction. I hate that sort of stuff because it's the cheapest and most overused form of dramatization. In action and suspense directing, this would be the same equivalent.
Click to expand...

True. And people probably use it because it's the most common. Having said that, I'm a sucker sort of for this kind of stuff so it doesn't faze me much. I guess it has a much bigger impact on you though. However, I'm wondering if some of those scenes could've been implemented differently.
 
kayos90 said:
True. And people probably use it because it's the most common. Having said that, I'm a sucker sort of for this kind of stuff so it doesn't faze me much. I guess it has a much bigger impact on you though. However, I'm wondering if some of those scenes could've been implemented differently.
Click to expand...

Probably, although some of the blame also falls upon the source material, which also had conflicts built up and resolved in a similarly inelegant manner. Gen Urobuchi had a vision for how things were going to play out, and in adhering to that vision he had to restrain the conflicts quite a bit. The first half of the story suffers because of this.

However, for the second half,
he loses these inhibitions so this scene should be the last instance where things play out all too conveniently.
 
Good points all round. I look forward to the remainder of the series to see how stuff plays out.

Here is a nice glimpse at what will probably be the only two non-CG cuts of Berserker on the show ever:

rQh06.jpg


9yehX.jpg


Definitely looks better when done in full CG with all the effects imo. It just looks more alien and cooler. Plus, I doubt they could get the amount of animation out of him that they do now if they had to get some mecha animator to draw him like that in every scene.
 
duckroll said:
Sometimes the plot armor makes sense, and it's satisfying to me, like the Avalon plot revelation. But other times it doesn't really work, like when Caster just escapes the forest, or Rider deciding to trample Berserker JUST as Kiritsugu is about to shoot Kayneth, or Tokiomi somehow not bothering to completely finish Kariya off, etc.
Click to expand...
I agree with the ones you mentioned except the last point.
I kind of feel like it fits Tokiomi's character to some degree. He seems like a fairly prideful man, and much like Gilgamesh he doesn't seem overly concerned with his enemies either consider he also lets his foes off the hook like Berserker this week. He likes to be in a position of power over everyone else, considering that both him and his servant love to stand on the highest ground possible. It doesn't really fit him to go down to ground level to check if Kariya was actually dead, almost beneath his stature, particularly since it seemed like he was dead anyway. Only reason he appears to have survived is because of Kirei's intervention.

Anyway, another really exciting episode this week. Visually speaking I think this was my favorite episode of the show thus far, lots of neat animation, big explosions etc. I particularly enjoyed the scenes with
Saber running along the water dodging Berserkers bullets
. It was kind of cool to see the handrawn Berserker shots as well. Music was used well in this episode too.
 
Instro said:
I agree with the ones you mentioned except the last point.
I kind of feel like it fits Tokiomi's character to some degree. He seems like a fairly prideful man, and much like Gilgamesh he doesn't seem overly concerned with his enemies either consider he also lets his foes off the hook like Berserker this week. He likes to be in a position of power over everyone else, considering that both him and his servant love to stand on the highest ground possible. It doesn't really fit him to go down to ground level to check if Kariya was actually dead, almost beneath his stature, particularly since it seemed like he was dead anyway. Only reason he appears to have survived is because of Kirei's intervention.

Anyway, another really exciting episode this week. Visually speaking I think this was my favorite episode of the show thus far, lots of neat animation, big explosions etc. I particularly enjoyed the scenes with
Saber running along the water dodging Berserkers bullets
. It was kind of cool to see the handrawn Berserker shots as well. Music was used well in this episode too.
Click to expand...

Sure, I agree that it fits Tokiomi's character. But in general it's a running theme that while characters don't act -out of character- the story still puts them in positions where the end result of the conflict feels less satisfying because of stuff like that. It's just a little annoying because I enjoy so much of everything else in the production.
 
Another great episode, well, apart from
Kariya, I thought that was a little silly, how long could it have taken him to realise it wasn't going to work?

Oh and duckroll, was the timestap correct at the end of this episode? After last week I have to know. :p
 
Ah, that episode preview for episode 16. Direct and to the point, especially for those that have been paying attention to the visual motifs used in previous previews.

That preview makes me especially giddy for one of my more favorite scenes in the series, although I would've thought that it would've come a little later. Not complaining, though!
 
Diablos54 said:
Another great episode, well, apart from
Kariya, I thought that was a little silly, how long could it have taken him to realise it wasn't going to work?

Oh and duckroll, was the timestap correct at the end of this episode? After last week I have to know. :p
Click to expand...

Apparently ep15 only took 6 minutes. Lolz. I think we'll just have to assume that ep14 and 15 were actually presented to the audience in slow motion, because everything was happening too fast! (lol)
 
duckroll said:
Sure, I agree that it fits Tokiomi's character. But in general it's a running theme that while characters don't act -out of character- the story still puts them in positions where the end result of the conflict feels less satisfying because of stuff like that. It's just a little annoying because I enjoy so much of everything else in the production.
Click to expand...

Yeah definitely. I was actually worried that
Caster might make an escape as well somehow.
 
So after analyzing the OP even further, I feel like Kariya gets shafted. He barely showed up in the first 13 episodes. Now that it's the second season, and his character should matter, the OP puts no focus on him at all. I understand the thematic statement they're going for it but still... I feel like Kariya just got screwed in the actual narrative and outside of it.

Also, it's funny to note the relationship between Berserker and Kariya. Almost every Master in that OP shows up with their Servant except for Kariya. Berserker feels like it's there just for mass chaos. R
 
My main complaint for the episode was
Kariya's
stupidity of forcing something that obviously isn't working, other than that I also liked the build up to
Saber's noble phantasm
but I think it would have been more awesome if I hadn't seen FSN.
Another thing I'd like to point out that Rider's answer to Gilgamesh after seeing Excalibur made me see Saber's NP on a different perspective despite its power is actually quite sad.
 
The best modern anime I've seen this year; time to start watching season 2...
I do agree that episode 1 sucked badly. However, as soon as Saber showed up everything was good again. :)

edit: Eps 14 & 15 were pretty good. Looking forward to the future.
 
duckroll said:
Some thoughts on Episode 15:

The direction in general wasn't as sharp as last week's episode, but it was still pretty entertaining. There were some things I didn't particularly like about it though. The way certain events are handled felt a bit rushed and weak.

The confrontation between Kariya and Tokiomi in particular was handled very poorly imo. I get the intention that they want to show there's a huge gulf in ability between the two of them, and that Kariya is just a suicidal guy with no real chance at all, but the way it was presented wasn't exciting and just felt stupid after all the build up from last week. It was just lame.
Click to expand...
I agree with this assessment. I think I probably built this episode a lot in my mind this week (especially with regards to the
Kariya v. Tokiomi bit, which ended up being disappointing and amazingly dull in the end
).

Music and animation was quite nice in general as usual, though. I think Episode 14 was better than this one in terms of pacing, direction, and all the stuff that happened in that one.

And the talking bits in this show are quite entertaining, imo. I guess that's why I didn't mind Episode 1 much despite it being more dull than the other episodes in comparison; I thought it was good in terms of establishing things and setting everything up. But Episode 11 was probably the best dialogue episode. And anything that comes out of Rider's mouth or results from his actions is brilliant.

Can't wait for the next episode
since the previous episode involving that conflict was fun to watch.
 
celcius said:
The best modern anime I've seen this year; time to start watching season 2...
I do agree that episode 1 sucked badly. However, as soon as Saber showed up everything was good again. :)

edit: Eps 14 & 15 were pretty good. Looking forward to the future.
Click to expand...

I liked episode 1. It provided a lot of explanation and set up for all the characters in a way that the FSN anime didn't really do.
 
After episode 25 airs, we should make an official list. Everyone who likes ep1 of F/Z versus everyone who doesn't. It'll be a fight to the death. All the ep1 non-believers will be vanquished. :D
 
duckroll said:
After episode 25 airs, we should make an official list. Everyone who likes ep1 of F/Z versus everyone who doesn't. It'll be a fight to the death. All the ep1 non-believers will be vanquished. :D
Click to expand...
So is someone going to track down the original posts of people who liked the first ep. or do we just declare our opinions after ep.25?
 
duckroll said:
My biggest beef with the big "battles" in Fate/Zero so far is that
they are set up such that the promise of the possible outcome is never able to be met because they have to keep the characters alive to keep the story going. It's true for every single major action set piece in the show so far: ep4-5, ep7-8, and now ep14-15. They put a bunch of characters together and have them come very close to killing each other, and then pull some plot armor crap to keep most of them or all of them alive.

Sometimes the plot armor makes sense, and it's satisfying to me, like the Avalon plot revelation. But other times it doesn't really work, like when Caster just escapes the forest, or Rider deciding to trample Berserker JUST as Kiritsugu is about to shoot Kayneth, or Tokiomi somehow not bothering to completely finish Kariya off, etc.

It feel that scenes like that cheapen the consequences in the story, and weaken it on a whole. I like it when the story just decides to go with the consequences and make them count, like Kayneth being unable to recover from the shot, and the master/servant relationship being forced to change. Change is good because it keeps the audience guessing and keeps the story interesting. But when characters survive regardless, only to come back to fight another day, it weakens the appeal of the action set pieces.
Click to expand...
The cherry on top is that
half this shit doesn't even need to be happening. 14-15 should have been about killing Caster and Ryu, but then they crammed in the Kariya vs Tokiomi and Archer vs Berserker non-battles.
 
Really good episode, my only gripe is they didn't have an even higher budget so we could've seen the...."delay"....actually play out as I'd imagine that to be a hell of a spectacle.
 
duckroll said:
After episode 25 airs, we should make an official list. Everyone who likes ep1 of F/Z versus everyone who doesn't. It'll be a fight to the death. All the ep1 non-believers will be vanquished. :D
Click to expand...

I shall stand behind you till the death Lord duckroll!

HOO-HA!
 
duckroll said:
My biggest beef with the big "battles" in Fate/Zero so far is that
they are set up such that the promise of the possible outcome is never able to be met because they have to keep the characters alive to keep the story going. It's true for every single major action set piece in the show so far: ep4-5, ep7-8, and now ep14-15. They put a bunch of characters together and have them come very close to killing each other, and then pull some plot armor crap to keep most of them or all of them alive.
Click to expand...
Yep, although now it gives the impression that, with the two more voluble and unpredictable Servants out of the way, all is ready for the 'semifinals' to commence without possible upcoming interruptions. Now, not that I think the efforts on retrofitting certain things known from the franchise grants them a reason to be so blatant about this outcome.

ElectricThunder said:
Really good episode, my only gripe is they didn't have an even higher budget so we could've seen the...."delay"....actually play out as I'd imagine that to be a hell of a spectacle.
Click to expand...
Certainly! Would have been so cool seeing alternating scenes from inside and outside the Reality Marble, instead of the Saber-fest we got to see.
 
You know, I think there was something cut out of the TV version of ep15.
Early in the episode, after Rider calls for a retreat, there's a really odd sequence of scenes where they use Rider's voice over even as other scenes are still occurring - some of which look rather incomplete too, like Saber's weird hopping sequence. I think it's pretty likely that the complete sequence of scenes would have both Saber and Rider retreating in a more natural fashion, and Rider giving the entire speech in a non-voice over fashion.
 
duckroll said:
You know, I think there was something cut out of the TV version of ep15.
Early in the episode, after Rider calls for a retreat, there's a really odd sequence of scenes where they use Rider's voice over even as other scenes are still occurring - some of which look rather incomplete too, like Saber's weird hopping sequence. I think it's pretty likely that the complete sequence of scenes would have both Saber and Rider retreating in a more natural fashion, and Rider giving the entire speech in a non-voice over fashion.
Click to expand...

I expect the BD Set 2 to have way more deleted scenes than the first. If not I'll be sad....
 
kayos90 said:
I expect the BD Set 2 to have way more deleted scenes than the first. If not I'll be sad....
Click to expand...

S1 covered more than half the novels so I don't think S2 will have much cut content. Ei Aoki said he was going to expand some parts a bit if I remember correctly.

So about ep 15...
What happened to the F15 pilot? Lolz.
 
duckroll said:
G-force would likely have already killed him in ep14. His body probably fell into the water when the plane broke apart in ep15.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's possible. I thought he died when the plane got destroyed by Lancer. RIP, Ougi & Kobayashi.
And hyped for tomorrow.
 
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