Fate/Zero TV |OT| Now 100% mollusk free!
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Only a while longer now.... Only.... 12ish hours....
Playing FSN in the meantime. Just finished beating Berserker.
Basileus777
Member
By furiously clicking or mashing enter?
The scroll wheel is the optimal choice here.
I'm going with the space bar, myself.
It's weird, the more I play Fate/Stay Night (on day 14 in the Fate route at the moment) the more I seem to appreciate how great Fate/Zero is. I love the little details and things I noticed from the show like
Man I've been really getting into the Type Moon universe lately. Can't wait for the next episode.
It's weird, the more I play Fate/Stay Night (on day 14 in the Fate route at the moment) the more I seem to appreciate how great Fate/Zero is. I love the little details and things I noticed from the show like
how in F/SN they speak about Saber using her Excalibur next to the bridge in the previous war and several other things.
Man I've been really getting into the Type Moon universe lately. Can't wait for the next episode.
Dedication Through Light
Member
One of the things I did like in 16 and at least with the title was that
Kayneth seemed to show a surprising side once the Geass was revealed. I thought he really only cared for himself, but to go that entire length for Sola was touching. A shame it meant we had a death count of four this episode which was a bit much for only the third episode of the season.
Ultimadrago
Member
Fate/Zero 16
LOL
plays a mean game of chess.
LOL
One of my bottom characters and Masters down!
Kiritsugu
Some slightly expanded thoughts on Ep16:
I'm really impressed by how much they decided to do in this episode and also how they went about doing it. I don't really want to discuss specific details yet, maybe later on, because otherwise it's just going to be a huge wall of black bars anyway. I loved the animation and in particular the art this week. There are some REALLY good stare reactions from various characters. The action was pretty great too, although the Niconico hard subs over the final action part was distracting for me because I was trying to focus on listening to the unrelated dialogue, while appreciating the action animation, and the English subs plastered on the screen at the same time was affecting my focus.
Great episode overall. Yum yum.
I'm really impressed by how much they decided to do in this episode and also how they went about doing it. I don't really want to discuss specific details yet, maybe later on, because otherwise it's just going to be a huge wall of black bars anyway. I loved the animation and in particular the art this week. There are some REALLY good stare reactions from various characters. The action was pretty great too, although the Niconico hard subs over the final action part was distracting for me because I was trying to focus on listening to the unrelated dialogue, while appreciating the action animation, and the English subs plastered on the screen at the same time was affecting my focus.
Great episode overall. Yum yum.
What a great episode. There's a lot of ties to Fate/stay night that are easy to recognize... so here's my thoughts on those. (warning: MASSIVE FSN spoilers ahead)
So yeah. Looking forward to next week's episode. I'm glad I got caught up when I did.
Kayneth death and Lancer being forced to commit suicide was truly shocking... it's something that happened in the Unlimited Blade Works route of FSN (Kirei forcing Lancer to kill himself, that is) so I was surprised to see it here. I didn't think Kiritsugu would be that under-handed, but I guess he is...
Lancer's words are also a foreshadowing for the end, in case no one caught that one...
Speaking of Kiritsugu... when Saber called him out for wanting to "save everyone," be an ally of justice when he was younger, etc... total Shirou connection there. Which is understandable since those ideals were passed on to him in FSN. I've always respected Kiritsugu's character but his actions in Fate/Zero are definitely surprising. Anyone who hasn't seen and/or played Fate/stay night after this series finishes really needs to... there's a lot of call-backs that make me appreciate it all the more.
Lancer's words are also a foreshadowing for the end, in case no one caught that one...
Speaking of Kiritsugu... when Saber called him out for wanting to "save everyone," be an ally of justice when he was younger, etc... total Shirou connection there. Which is understandable since those ideals were passed on to him in FSN. I've always respected Kiritsugu's character but his actions in Fate/Zero are definitely surprising. Anyone who hasn't seen and/or played Fate/stay night after this series finishes really needs to... there's a lot of call-backs that make me appreciate it all the more.
So yeah. Looking forward to next week's episode. I'm glad I got caught up when I did.
Fate/Zero Episode 16
Got. Damn. That was the definition of cold-blooded.
Awesome episode. So much in a single episode though I sort of wish the action was played out a bit more since
Then also, there's so much you can do in one episode. Either way, this series has just been consistently great so far and I cannot wait for next week.
Got. Damn. That was the definition of cold-blooded.
Awesome episode. So much in a single episode though I sort of wish the action was played out a bit more since
it being the last battle between Lancer and Saber, it was pretty disappointing to have it end so quick. Then again, considering Kiritsugu's actions that was probably the point.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
This is the Fate/Zero I love. Good old fashioned human dickery. So glad the giant squid arc is over.
I feel kind of bad for Lancer. He was basically just the plot's plaything, and was even shat on in death.
Being Lancer is suffering.
He always gets stuck with a terrible master, is the problem.
Weeeeeellllll not realllly.
FS/N
Lancer's original master got pwned so she might have been a good master if she had lived
Meccanical
Member
My reaction to episode 16 in a nutshell.
No, duckroll. We need that wall of text.
Anyway, this is my favorite episode from this second act. I think Fate/Zero is one of the few animes that doesn't dilly dally around. Rather it does everything it can and makes use of time really well. How they cram so much stuff into an episode without sacrificing content, production, and awesomeness is beyond me.
The more I think about it, Episode 11, Episode 5, and Episode 16 depict the three types of episodes that exist in Fate/Zero. One is dedicated to the conversations that characters have in length and in great detail. The second is dedicated to fights and showing those visuals in great detail and motion. The last merging the two for an excellent combination that doesn't sacrifice pacing or any depth. This episode was the epitome of why I love Fate/Zero. Too good.
EDIT: There's going to be a deleted scene this episode most likely.
Yeah, I basically forced myself to go through F/SN (it wasn't that bad, but not really good either, the first half was really bad though) before watching Fate/Zero, but now I'm glad I did. I think it really gives an extra dimension to the F/Z experience, even if the ending is spoiled for me.
Did you watch Unlimited Blade Works?
Yep, liked it a lot more than the series tbh. As a standalone movie it's too rushed and all, but as an alternative retelling of the series, which should be viewed after being familiarized with the show it was great. A lot of nice action, great animation and consistent art (well, it's a movie) and none of that slow pacing crap which ruined a huge part of the TV show.
The only downside is that watching the show beforehand is pretty much required.
Yeah that's true. I agree with everything you said. Unlimited Blade Works is actually my favorite route in the game.
Both the FSN game and TV series suffer from a slow start, but once it gets going, it becomes quite good. And as you said... seeing it before Fate/Zero brings a whole other perspective to the story even if it is a prequel.
Dont forget, UBW Shiro was much better than FSN. I could not stand him.
I'm glad my brother is such a big Fate/Stay Night Blu-ray collector. Had the opportunity to watch it over spring break again to refresh my memory. Great stuff.
Indeed. I like Shirou because of his role in Unlimited Blade Works.
Wheeljack539
Member
But you also have to remember that the way the route went was why Shirou changed the way his did. The challenges to him were different and he had to alter his thinking. Same with Heaven's Feel Shirou. Though I must admit, while I did enjoy the UBW Movie for what it was I am pissed
that they never showed one of the reason's why the route changed, in Shirou using a Command Seal to stop Saber from attacking Rin and Archer when they first showed up, leaving Archer available to fight Berserker unlike what happened in the Fate route. They just forgot about it completely.
So after watching through it twice I really feel like this episode will have at least one deleted scene.
Man, I feel like this episode was paced absolutely perfectly and the animation was top notch. There weren't a lot of still shots with bobbing heads or lips moving. Nearly everything had some sort of intricate movements, making this episode gorgeous. I think this episode also captures the brutality, seriousness, theme, and overall direction that Fate/Zero was going for. We saw the transition from Episode 11 to now, slowly head towards a darker and moodier atmosphere and I think this episode hits the climax of it so far.
Having said that, there were particular aspects that really stood out to me of why this episode is so good. Rather than dedicating one large continuous portion of the episode to a fight, they broke it up with dialogue in-between. I enjoyed this partially due to the fact that it keeps the dialogues interesting, but it also pulls the audience in more to enjoy the fight, since it isn't mindless action. I'm not saying they should do this for every fight sequence, but the combination of the two works really well for the episode.
Another is the brutality of the scene between Sola and Maiya. Instead of going for a gory approach showing everything, the subtlety that they showed when her arm was hacked off and how she responded was great. It still captures the horror of the situation without showing everything. It's more direction and capturing the essence of the scene and I thought they did it awesomely.
Thirdly, Lancer's death scene gave me shivers. It happens so quickly and this is the only scene - to my memory - where Lancer screams, shouts, and yells. Because I've never seen him so emotionally out of control it hit me hard. We get a real glimpse of how important a knight's honor, valor, and chivalry is to Diarmuid.
I also enjoyed the conversation between Kiritisugu and Saber. Finally they have a formal conversation about their perspectives. To continue off of Episode 11, I think Saber's idealism and view of battles differs extremely from Kiritsugu's. He views all battles, fights, wars, or anything of the sort as evil. There's no honor in it. There's no honor in killing, murder, death, and something so tortuous. In a way, the result is the same but the "means" are different. Not so much means but how one views battles. While Saber's is skewed by viewing it as honorable as long as one remains chivalrous and respectable, Kiritsugu believes that the end reveals how horrid such a thing is. Great dialogue, one that deserves more praise than I can put into words.
Lastly, Kayneth's characterization. Throughout the entire series we don't get a big development of him. Rather, we see bits and pieces of his cruel, arrogant, and prideful personality. This was a disappointing part for me in the series since I want characters in the show to be developed to a certain extent. However, this last bit showed a different side of Kayneth that I didn't expect. He was torn on winning the Grail or caring for Sola. Despite being screwed over by her, he still wanted to save her and his own life by withdrawing. He understood that the Grail isn't worth it anymore. It's a sign of humility in a way because he understands that he no longer has a place in this war anymore. It was quite a sight to see.
I'm pretty sure there's more but this is it for my thoughts.... for now.
Having said that, there were particular aspects that really stood out to me of why this episode is so good. Rather than dedicating one large continuous portion of the episode to a fight, they broke it up with dialogue in-between. I enjoyed this partially due to the fact that it keeps the dialogues interesting, but it also pulls the audience in more to enjoy the fight, since it isn't mindless action. I'm not saying they should do this for every fight sequence, but the combination of the two works really well for the episode.
Another is the brutality of the scene between Sola and Maiya. Instead of going for a gory approach showing everything, the subtlety that they showed when her arm was hacked off and how she responded was great. It still captures the horror of the situation without showing everything. It's more direction and capturing the essence of the scene and I thought they did it awesomely.
Thirdly, Lancer's death scene gave me shivers. It happens so quickly and this is the only scene - to my memory - where Lancer screams, shouts, and yells. Because I've never seen him so emotionally out of control it hit me hard. We get a real glimpse of how important a knight's honor, valor, and chivalry is to Diarmuid.
I also enjoyed the conversation between Kiritisugu and Saber. Finally they have a formal conversation about their perspectives. To continue off of Episode 11, I think Saber's idealism and view of battles differs extremely from Kiritsugu's. He views all battles, fights, wars, or anything of the sort as evil. There's no honor in it. There's no honor in killing, murder, death, and something so tortuous. In a way, the result is the same but the "means" are different. Not so much means but how one views battles. While Saber's is skewed by viewing it as honorable as long as one remains chivalrous and respectable, Kiritsugu believes that the end reveals how horrid such a thing is. Great dialogue, one that deserves more praise than I can put into words.
Lastly, Kayneth's characterization. Throughout the entire series we don't get a big development of him. Rather, we see bits and pieces of his cruel, arrogant, and prideful personality. This was a disappointing part for me in the series since I want characters in the show to be developed to a certain extent. However, this last bit showed a different side of Kayneth that I didn't expect. He was torn on winning the Grail or caring for Sola. Despite being screwed over by her, he still wanted to save her and his own life by withdrawing. He understood that the Grail isn't worth it anymore. It's a sign of humility in a way because he understands that he no longer has a place in this war anymore. It was quite a sight to see.
I'm pretty sure there's more but this is it for my thoughts.... for now.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Just finished watching it.
I think I need a few minutes to gather my thoughts since this episode was fantastic, especially after I was a little disappointed by the previous episode. Shit was amazing to watch. Animation and art were great, as was scene direction. Great combo of battles and the talky bits (which, as I've established, are some of my favourite parts of this series).
As for spoilers, well...
Anyway, kayos made some pretty good points in his post, and I generally agree with them... especially the 'theming' bits. Can't wait for next episode, but this was the best of the bunch along with Episodes 4/5 and 11 so far.
I think I need a few minutes to gather my thoughts since this episode was fantastic, especially after I was a little disappointed by the previous episode. Shit was amazing to watch. Animation and art were great, as was scene direction. Great combo of battles and the talky bits (which, as I've established, are some of my favourite parts of this series).
As for spoilers, well...
I like how the contrast between Saber's motivations and goals with regards to battles and Kiritsugu's motivations and goals with regards to scuffles is played out here. Their differing views with regards to the battlefield (in which Saber believes it's a place of honour and showing valour, and Kiritsugu believes it's an area where virtue and honour doesn't exist at all) were nicely conveyed. I guess in a smaller way, this was somewhat demonstrated in some of the previous episodes, where Saber's battles are drawn-out somewhat to test the opponent's skill during the battle, and Kiritsugu's "battles"/scuffles are rather quick... but that's mostly due to gathering intel prior to the battle. At least, that's how I see it.
I also really liked how Lancer's death was handled. Completely agree with kayos's opinion of the scene. It was excellent.
I also really liked how Lancer's death was handled. Completely agree with kayos's opinion of the scene. It was excellent.
Anyway, kayos made some pretty good points in his post, and I generally agree with them... especially the 'theming' bits. Can't wait for next episode, but this was the best of the bunch along with Episodes 4/5 and 11 so far.
I guess that means that you're getting the Season 2 blu-ray by default, eh? :lolkayos90 said:
Completely agree with your points. Nah, my brother made it clear that I have to buy the next set. rofl. I'm saving up hardcore right now. Super hardcore.
Basileus777
Member
A thought about ep 16.
Kayneth was crippled with damaged magic circuits and no command seals, how was he going to partner up with another servant? Kiritsugu killing him was purposeless.
A master is a master nonetheless. He is still qualified to bond with another servant if the position opened up.
Basileus777
Member
Not without command seals. Without them, he can't even be called a master.
Hmm... I'm not sure about that one.... You could be right.
Basileus777
Member
I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
Though Sola was still a potential threat, so it doesn't make much sense to just kill one of them. Might as well tie up all the lose ends.
Meccanical
Member
He killed him because he's a dick.
He's prideful and arrogant which comes off across as dickish. I guess. However, from his perspective he undrestands that Servants are just a tool and an underling. Not a companion.
I actually thought Kayneth was going to try and kill him since Kiritsugu couldn't attack due to the contract. Besides he might not have known what went down in the church.
I finally finished Fate/stay night earlier today (impressions and late realization), and jumped right to the first episode of Fate/Zero.
And it's already so much better, haha. The first scene blew my mind, dammit.
But I'll put that on hold to play the visual novel, for now. Hopefully I'll be able to catch up with you guys in a couple of weeks.
And it's already so much better, haha. The first scene blew my mind, dammit.
But I'll put that on hold to play the visual novel, for now. Hopefully I'll be able to catch up with you guys in a couple of weeks.
Basileus777
Member
I don't think Kayneth can even use magic anymore, Kiritsugu's bullet fucked him up, so killing Kiri would have been pretty difficult. But yeah, there was the possibility of the church giving Kayneth another command seal. Kiritsugu is the type of person to eliminate all possible threats, so I guess killing Kayneth makes sense even if he was unlikely to be a problem.
Ultimadrago
Member
I want to ask, did you
Truly sympathize for Kayneth? From the intro episode to the present, he always presented himself as a type of asshat. Not a particularly interesting one either, he had his personal goals, his over arching pride and his only soft spot was for his sweet, who also tried to screw him over.
There are some major "bastards" i like from the show, but he never seemed to come around to a level of likability. I saw him as a stuck-up coward to the end, even with him caring for his wife. I'm surprised that so many seemed sympathetic for him in death. He was just as cold (though not quite as calculating) as Kiritsugu.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the way this episode did portray him in his tight position and I don't believe it was out of place for the writing and visuals help pull some emotions for the guy. However, can you expand on how much you sympathized for the character in death, because I just couldn't.
Also, on the note of not thinking the Grail was worth it anymore. I'm not sure about that. He thought really long and hard about that and even when he showed up to Lancer outside. I am positive that 80% of his facial "distraught" rooted from his loss of pride than Lancer's suffering. That is a cynical viewpoint, I understand, but I couldn't see it much any other way
There are some major "bastards" i like from the show, but he never seemed to come around to a level of likability. I saw him as a stuck-up coward to the end, even with him caring for his wife. I'm surprised that so many seemed sympathetic for him in death. He was just as cold (though not quite as calculating) as Kiritsugu.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the way this episode did portray him in his tight position and I don't believe it was out of place for the writing and visuals help pull some emotions for the guy. However, can you expand on how much you sympathized for the character in death, because I just couldn't.
Also, on the note of not thinking the Grail was worth it anymore. I'm not sure about that. He thought really long and hard about that and even when he showed up to Lancer outside. I am positive that 80% of his facial "distraught" rooted from his loss of pride than Lancer's suffering. That is a cynical viewpoint, I understand, but I couldn't see it much any other way
lol, I still like Kiritsugu...
The Grim Heaper
Member
Kayneth was pretty much rendered useless after the magic plot armor bullet. He would have had no way to attack and his death was inevitable.
The way I look at it is the following. When I sympathize for a character I try to find a way for me to sympathize. In this case I found the manner of his death sad and therefore I felt sympathetic. He definitely is an asshat. No argument there. However, I do believe that death is a sad thing regardless of the situation. As a result, I feel sorry for Kayneth and what happened to him.
I don't think I said he was distraught was from Lancer's suffering. Kayneth couldn't care less about Lancer.
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