Touch Arcade vs. NeoGAF

Roto13 said:
What's really funny is that you believe he was just trolling and isn't actually a massive cunt.

My friends and co-workers are respectable people. Dunno about yours.

And if "shitfarter" makes you grin, you seriously need to grow up.
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It was Something Awful forums circa 2007.. it was an obvious troll post.

My friends and co-workers are respectable, but my friends also say some fucked up stuff. Hell my boss is a "birther", which is just beyond crazy, but she's alright otherwise. It's easy to forgive shit like that when you know someone.

..and like I said if there's ever a day I can't grin at stupid shit and fart jokes (and this was both at once!) then I grew up to the point I should be buried. People are taking themselves far too seriously these days, if people would just laugh stuff off and focus on, you know, important things.. we'd be in a better place.
 
NervousXtian said:
It was Something Awful forums circa 2007.. it was an obvious troll post.

My friends and co-workers are respectable, but my friends also say some fucked up stuff. Hell my boss is a "birther", which is just beyond crazy, but she's alright otherwise. It's easy to forgive shit like that when you know someone.

..and like I said if there's ever a day I can't grin at stupid shit and fart jokes (and this was both at once!) then I grew up to the point I should be buried. People are taking themselves far too seriously these days, if people would just laugh stuff off and focus on, you know, important things.. we'd be in a better place.
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NervousXtian
I'm an idiot
(Today, 01:41 AM)
 
RedNumberFive said:
Neogaf takes Kickstarter very seriously.
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Well, yes. It's an alternative funding method - which, arguably, the games industry *needs* right now - trying to get a foothold of credibility. People passionate about gaming enough to be aware of the inherent problems with the publisher model are likely to be inclined to defend alternatives against irrational prejudices.
 
"Shitfarter" is one of those things you would smirk at because of how hilariously immature it is. Kinda like grinning at a bad pun because of how forced it is.
 
mclem said:
Well, yes. It's an alternative funding method - which, arguably, the games industry *needs* right now - trying to get a foothold of credibility. People passionate about gaming enough to be aware of the inherent problems with the publisher model are likely to be inclined to defend alternatives against irrational prejudices.
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Really? We *need* Kickstarter?

Wow, how did this whole indie revolution the last few years ever come to be without Kickstarter?!?
 
NervousXtian said:
Really? We *need* Kickstarter?

Wow, how did this whole indie revolution the last few years ever come to be without Kickstarter?!?
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The last few years? Wut? I can't even remember gaming being without indies, like, ever, what change did I miss? Of course, on the other hand indies haven't exactly been flooding us with games trying to be Wasteland 2 either, so, why not? Clearly we don't "need" it in the same way we don't even "need" video games as a whole to begin with, but it's an option, and options are good, that some people can do without it doesn't mean shit, really, since the people who do use it, er, found use for it. Which is cool. It's all based on demand anyway, if there was really no demand for it then it wouldn't continue existing. For now, it so does.
 
Shaneus said:
Hzkum.png

Not surprised.
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:(
 
Alextended said:
The last few years? Wut? I can't even remember gaming being without indies, like, ever, what change did I miss? Of course, on the other hand indies haven't exactly been flooding us with games trying to be Wasteland 2 either, so, why not? Clearly we don't "need" it in the same way we don't even "need" video games as a whole to begin with, but it's an option, and options are good, that some people can do without it doesn't mean shit, really, since the people who do use it, er, found use for it. Which is cool. It's all based on demand anyway, if there was really no demand for it then it wouldn't continue existing. For now, it so does.
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There's has be a tremendous flood of quality indie games the last few years. Yes, there always has been indie games, but what we've seen recently? Not that I remember in my 30 years of gaming.
 
NervousXtian said:
There's has be a tremendous flood of quality indie games the last few years. Yes, there always has been indie games, but what we've seen recently? Not that I remember in my 30 years of gaming.
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Weird, I remember plenty great old stuff, from Mount&Blade to Uplink to Samorost to loads of Spiderweb games to Sean O'Connor games to C-Dogs to Liero to a ton of roguelikes to Cave Story to Akuji to Noctis to StarWraith 3D games to ABA games to a ton of bullet hell shooters to Ikiki games to, well, anything... Unless all of the last decade + qualifies as the last few years, then yeah, my memory doesn't go far back enough to list even older things, though I'm sure they existed then too... They definitely may have more visibility with a certain side of the market these days that it's easier for them to get on consoles though, I'll give you that.
 
Alextended said:
Weird, I remember plenty great old stuff, from Mount&Blade to Uplink to Samorost to loads of Spiderweb games to Sean O'Connor games to C-Dogs to Liero to a ton of roguelikes to Cave Story to Akuji to Noctis to StarWraith 3D games to ABA games to a ton of bullet hell shooters to Ikiki games to, well, anything... Unless all of the last decade + qualifies as the last few years, then yeah, my memory doesn't go far back enough to list even older things, though I'm sure they existed then too... They definitely may have more visibility with a certain side of the market these days that it's easier for them to get on consoles though, I'll give you that.
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I said there was great indie games before, but we've seen a tremendous influx of games in the last 3 to 5 years. There certainly was no "shortage" of great indie games being made.

So yeah, Kickstarter might bring us the DF Adventure Game, which without KS might not ever be made.. and Wasteland 2. Both were kind of those "we've always wanted, but we understand why we haven't seen them" kinds of games.

Yet, then we have Republique, a game in production already, by a team that already left and formed the studio, and they admitted they had funding to some extent already, promised nothing really but a pre-order by donating, and you have to ask..

...is this what Kickstarter is supposed to be for?
 
NervousXtian said:
I said there was great indie games before, but we've seen a tremendous influx of games in the last 3 to 5 years. There certainly was no "shortage" of great indie games being made.
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And I merely said that I don't think that's true, to me indies have just been like, business as usual, because I can remember loads of awesome indie games from way before the last few years, and I gave some examples. I dunno why you thought you had to repeat. I'll just agree to disagree, I merely wanted to express an opinion that differs to yours, not bother trying to convince you.
NervousXtian said:
Yet, then we have Republique, a game in production already, by a team that already left and formed the studio, and they admitted they had funding to some extent already, promised nothing really but a pre-order by donating, and you have to ask..

...is this what Kickstarter is supposed to be for?
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I dunno what this part has to do with the post that you quoted there... But I'll respond anyway.

Kickstarter is there as a source of funding, Republique seems to qualify as someone going after that so, yes, it's there for that too. I don't think there's any rule saying that you can't also go after other funding sources and I see little wrong with them wanting to secure an amount that will allow them to retain creative control and the rights to the IP, even if they also get additional funding from a publisher, their parents, the government, or whoever else. That I haven't pledged for Republique doesn't mean I see something wrong with them trying this, as long as they intend to develop and finish the game which means it's not a scam or similar and people will get what they pledge for (whether that lives up to their expectations or not is a different matter, there's always a risk when you buy something, early or not). I only don't have that much interest in the game, for now. Also, what does what they give have to do with anything? I go for the pre-order style option more often than not anyway as it seems quite fair to me, but that's me.

Again though, it's just based on demand, if people don't want something they won't pledge. Where's the problem? Republique might get made even without Kickstarter but there could definitely be consequences, ie, an inability for the developer to be able to create sequels without working with the same publisher, creative changes requested by the publisher that otherwise would not have occured, and so on. Or maybe the Kickstarter will fail but they'll find a different publisher with a better deal than they expected possible. Or maybe the Indie Fund will help them. Or whatever. Who knows? None of these possibilities make their attempt evil.

Shitty games are made all the time too, but what's the point in going all "is this what the games industry is supposed to be for?" or something... If you don't like that or any other part of it, you can ignore it, while others may not find it to be shitty. Options!
 
NervousXtian said:
So yeah, Kickstarter might bring us the DF Adventure Game, which without KS might not ever be made.. and Wasteland 2.
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Can you honestly believe DoubleFine Adventure wouldn't have happened without Kickstarter? You don't think an industry legend could have put together a few hundred thousand dollars from his own cash stash or found investors? Nonsense. Companies like TellTale have spent years proving the viability of the graphic adventure game in today's market. If Schafer had offered to have his name attached to such a project there would have been quite a few publishers anxious to throw money at him.

In that sense, even the DoubleFine Kickstarter was little more than a PR stunt and/or and elaborate pre-order campaign.

The point of Kickstarter though isn't just to make impossible projects possible. It's to help speed up hobbyists who want to improve their projects. It's to help creators retain creative control without handing it over to a publisher. It helps a company like DoubleFine get a project off the ground while minimizing the financial risk.
 
I heard Touch Arcade just hired a few really good writers. Not sure if it was in direct response to this, or if they're beefing up the site or what.
 
Zia said:
I heard Touch Arcade just hired a few really good writers. Not sure if it was in direct response to this, or if they're beefing up the site or what.
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Hopefully it was in response to their bad writing. In my experience they tend to gush over everything remotely enjoyable while rarely offering useful criticism or valuable insight. I'd love to see better writing on the iOS front. There's not enough of it.
 
Zeth said:
Hopefully it was in response to their bad writing. In my experience they tend to gush over everything remotely enjoyable while rarely offering useful criticism or valuable insight. I'd love to see better writing on the iOS front. There's not enough of it.
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Agreed.
 
Zeth said:
Hopefully it was in response to their bad writing. In my experience they tend to gush over everything remotely enjoyable while rarely offering useful criticism or valuable insight. I'd love to see better writing on the iOS front. There's not enough of it.
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Yeah, I've never taken their articles seriously. They gush over the worst games at times.
 
border said:
Companies like TellTale have spent years proving the viability of the graphic adventure game in today's market. If Schafer had offered to have his name attached to such a project there would have been quite a few publishers anxious to throw money at him.

.
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Companies like TellTale prove that you can make money with pre-existing IP with 3D games that heavily recycle assets.
 
numble said:
Companies like TellTale prove that you can make money with pre-existing IP with 3D games that heavily recycle assets.
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If they can be successful with IPs like Sam & Max and Bone and Strongbad, I think there's room for a Schafer-made adventure game without Kickstarter. I've gotta imagine his name is worth as much or more than those IPs.

And besides, it's not as if there haven't been other successful adventure games. The Longest Journey/Dreamfall jump to mind, as does that Vampyre Story game.
 
border said:
If they can be successful with IPs like Sam & Max and Bone and Strongbad, I think there's room for a Schafer-made adventure game without Kickstarter. I've gotta imagine his name is worth as much or more than those IPs.

And besides, it's not as if there haven't been other successful adventure games. The Longest Journey/Dreamfall jump to mind, as does that Vampyre Story game.
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How can the Schafer name be worth it? What is his success rate with his previous 3 major original IPs? Critical success, but not successful in terms of money that publishers want to see.
 
Zia said:
I heard Touch Arcade just hired a few really good writers. Not sure if it was in direct response to this, or if they're beefing up the site or what.
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It can't have anything to do with this, they are launching their own app (website-centric) within a couple of days and I am 100% sure it has to do with that. They are likely anticipating a much higher level of exposure in that regard, for obvious reasons.. I expect their app to be pretty high up on the free charts for some time.

On a related note, the app was supposed to launch some weeks (over a month or 2? ) ago and it's been delayed because the dev has been in a near-fatal accident of some sort, they've kept the details quiet to respect his privacy. Hopefully his condition will improve, regardless of how you feel about TA/etc be sure to send some good vibes/thoughts in that direction.
 
Wow... just removed touch arcade from all of my browsers. It's not like it was all that reliable. They pretty much think every game that comes through is amazing.
 
InsaneLuchador said:
Wow... just removed touch arcade from all of my browsers. It's not like it was all that reliable. They pretty much think every game that comes through is amazing.
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Pretty much. I'm removed them as well and haven't visited the site since this whole thing started.

Oh, but they don't need us.
 
He claimed his personal information was shared on the site, and the harassment began in earnest. He said that his parents would come home to threatening messages on their voice mail. “Just calling to let you know your son is a fucking faggot,” one particularly pleasant message stated. There was an organized attempt to have him fired from TouchArcade.
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Was his personal information actually shared in this thread? I can't believe that would have been allowed.
 
Bad in that it doesn't cover him reacting stupidly and stoking the fire somewhat, but the reactions in here were incredibly pathetic. A real GAF low point.
 
Don't send us stuff from your kickstarter reward tiers. That's bribery and it's immoral.


We're still gonna accept all the swag and gifts from major game publishers, though.
 
Penny Arcade really did a great job making Eli look like a poor victim in that article. They didn't mention his odd hatred of Kickstarter, even referring to it "cleverly" as "Shitfarter" over and over again...
 
BenKuchera ‏@BenKuchera
@daegan Then let me know what you're discussing, because that's what the story is about.
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Get called out on not covering the whole story

'i only want to cover the part of the story that i want to cover'
 
The Internet (and GAF)'s tendency to pile on public missteps is something I despise, but Touch Arcade is absolutely not the outlet to comment, even indirectly, in a piece about the ethics of anything.
 
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