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Fighterpedia takes on the question of whether Smash Bros. is a fighting game.

Crewnh said:
Party fighter seemed apt.
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I agree with this.

Jamie OD said:
The fact there are people out there who get offended by the existence of Smash Bros makes me sad.

Plus I don't get the fighting game community at all when stuff like this comes up.
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I get offended that people view this a a good fighter. The typical complaints of items and stage movement is there but what I find most offensive is the gravity mechanic. To win you need to knock someone off the stage or basically reduce their relative gravity to knock them off easier. That is the element that made me really not acknowledge this game as part of the fighter pantheon.
 
Kontergurke said:
Interesting. I always thought Mario Party was a mini game compilation with a board game element to it. Guess I was wrong?
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Is "Minigame Compilation with a board game element to it" a genre also? or can we just call it a fighter? There has to be some sort of fighting mechanic in the game somewhere. Lots of people consider "Party Game" a genre, which is obvious by this thread. But according to lots of you it is not... but Smash is a fighter. interesting!
 
All the reasons in this thread for why Smash is not a fighting game are silly and stupid. It reminds me of the dumb threads about "Are games art"
 
BHK3 said:
I always personally saw it as not, more of a party game. Didn't the creator say it was a party game anyway?
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No, he did not. Sakurai specifically said he created Smash Bros prototype because fighting games are becoming more and more inaccessible to newcomers. Well, more or less.

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_kid_icarus_uprising_49149_49150.html
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_super_smash_bros_brawl_16786_16864.html
 
Kontergurke said:
Interesting. I always thought Mario Party was a mini game compilation with a board game element to it. Guess I was wrong?
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Maybe, so I hit up the wikipedia list of the party game genre, there are mostly games that are based around being like a quiz, having plenty of minigames and playing like a board game, I guess poor old Smash isn't allowed to join that party either.

And since someone just argued against SSB because you have to knock people off the stage and this is too untraditional apparently this presents another point, wrestling games were brought up earlier. So Acclaim's WWF Attitude and Warzone games had button combinations for moves and a health bar you had to work down whereas AKI games like WM2000 and WWF No mercy used a spirit meter that shifts from being in a good or bad state depending on how well you're playing with victory most likely when your opponent is in poor spirit.
So is only Warzone/Attitude allowed into the fabled category of fighters because of it's more traditional take on fighting whereas No Mercy has to settle for being simply wrestling? or sport?
Man this genre thing is a mess.
 
Yes, Smash Bros is a fighting game.

DanteFox said:
Some use the distinction in order to delegitimize and mock the competitive smash community.
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As if the smash community needed any help doing that!

staticneuron said:
I get offended that people view this a a good fighter. The typical complaints of items and stage movement is there but what I find most offensive is the gravity mechanic. To win you need to knock someone off the stage or basically reduce their relative gravity to knock them off easier. That is the element that made me really not acknowledge this game as part of the fighter pantheon.
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Given countless fighting games that all follow the "traditional" rubric, Smash Bros. is a breath of fresh air.
 
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;37682152 said:
IGN sucks, but that isn't the point. I can find other sites who also list "party game" as a genre if you demand it lol
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And I'm pretty sure all those sites will list Smash Bros as a fighting game as well!
 
staticneuron said:
I agree with this.



I get offended that people view this a a good fighter. The typical complaints of items and stage movement is there but what I find most offensive is the gravity mechanic. To win you need to knock someone off the stage or basically reduce their relative gravity to knock them off easier. That is the element that made me really not acknowledge this game as part of the fighter pantheon.
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Do all fighters need to follow the same basic rules just so that you don't get mad and throw a fit because you need throw the enemies off the stage
 
Kontergurke said:
Ahh, but wait:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/856/856580p1.html
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Published by: Nintendo
Developed by: Nintendo / Game Arts
Genre: Fighting
Number of Players: 1-4

Case closed, I guess? Thanks Frank!
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Yeah, I also saw that already. You would have a point if I was trying to lend some kind of credibility to IGN's opinion. I was merely pointing out the fact that people do view party games as a genre. Just like people think Smash is a fighting game lol. I don't have to think IGN or Smash players are right to point this out.

Like I mentioned earlier, I can find other less horrible sites that do the same if I must. Let me know.
 
Nice Brawl trolling at the end. Are they still upset about the Dojo update from 3rd December 2007? Four and a bit years guys. Move on.
 
Smash only becomes a fighting game when you start stripping things away, and adding community made rules.

Not that I care.
 
botty said:
Smash only becomes a fighting game when you start stripping things away, and adding community made rules.

Not that I care.
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If it's in the options it's not stripping things away.

I still don't understand why some people would feel upset that Smash could be described as a party fighter. Mario Kart's a party racer rather than a racing sim.
 
staticneuron said:
I get offended that people view this a a good fighter. The typical complaints of items and stage movement is there but what I find most offensive is the gravity mechanic. To win you need to knock someone off the stage or basically reduce their relative gravity to knock them off easier. That is the element that made me really not acknowledge this game as part of the fighter pantheon.
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What? So, despite the fact that Melee contains an extremely high skill ceiling, a lot of competitive depth, and a complex and storied metagame that continues to evolve in the face of some of the most intense analysis within gaming, you refuse to acknowledge it as a fighter because of ring outs? Also, items haven't been used in tournaments in about a decade, and the stage bans system has nullified most (if not all) complaints about stage issues in Melee.

The three smash games are all fighting games. They are no more paradigm shifting than late-90s Capcom games like Power Stone and Tech Romancer.

EDIT: Also, the term "Smash community" is kind of silly as the population of players who play Smash games are about as divided as it gets. On top of the more visible division between competitive players and non-competitive players, there's also a significant divide between 64/Melee and Brawl players with very limited overlap. On top of that, the Brawl player base is again divided into sects of pro-modification and anti-modification groups.
 
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;37682527 said:
hopefully they do or the sites probably get a lot of email from whiny kids about their mega popular game of choice not being accepted by a rather niche fighting game community.
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wow.
 
Fugu said:
What? So, despite the fact that Melee contains an extremely high skill ceiling, a lot of competitive depth, and complex and storied metagame that continues to evolve in the face of some of the most intense analysis within gaming, you refuse to acknowledge it as a fighter because of ring outs? Also, items haven't been used in tournaments in about a decade, and the stage bans system has nullified most (if not all) complaints about stage issues in Melee.

The three smash games are all fighting games. They are no more paradigm shifting than late-90s Capcom games like Power Stone and Tech Romancer.
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I'm not sure what any of this has to do with anything. I'm not seeing people argue Smash doesn't require skill, have depth, or whatever you're going on about. I just don't consider Smash a fighter. Fortunately for everyone games of all genres are able to have these qualities.
 
Fugu said:
What? So, despite the fact that Melee contains an extremely high skill ceiling, a lot of competitive depth, and complex and storied metagame that continues to evolve in the face of some of the most intense analysis within gaming, you refuse to acknowledge it as a fighter because of ring outs? Also, items haven't been used in tournaments in about a decade, and the stage bans system has nullified most (if not all) complaints about stage issues in Melee.
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What's wrong with calling in a party fighter? It ticks all the boxes. Sure you can turn off items, but on the flipside that means you can turn them on. Games don't have to be pigeonholed into a handful of categories, otherwise Mario Kart and Gran Turismo would both share the genre of racing despite the fact that anyone can tell you they are completely different game.
 
survivor said:
All the reasons in this thread for why Smash is not a fighting game are silly and stupid. It reminds me of the dumb threads about "Are games art"
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games are not art
smash bros is not a fighter
Valve likes making money more than they care about Half Life
Nintendo is not your friend
The FGC is made up of 20 years of hate and sexism and racism are part of its culture
Mario is a lame mascot and his voice acting is both overused in the games and annoying as ever living fuck
Sonic was dead after Sonic 3 and only exists for erotic fan fic
Portal 1 jokes were run into the ground by hyperactive meme spouters
Portal 2 was a patronizing piece of shit that tried to recreate the magic
JRPGs are trash and if you like their stories, you should feel bad
WRPGs are buggy pieces of crap with shitty combat
I can play Diablo 3 right now by clicking around on my desktop for 10 hours straight
FPS games on consoles control like shit and have the worst communities and the games themselves are getting worse and worse
Nobody gives a crap how many signatures on your Mega Man Legends 3 petition, the game will still sell 10 copies and the first two games are not even that good
Capcom does not care that you want a static camera, shitty combat RE game
Bro games suck
Weeaboo games suck
Hardcore gamers suck
Undercore gamers suck
Casual gamers suck
The characters in Sony's smash clone only highlight how boring and lame their mascots are
Brawl is what happens when you try to fit in every single last little idea/bell/whistle into a game--none of it is fun
Shmups piss me off because they took away my spaceships and replaced them with little girls flying around in their panties
The gaming industry has penis envy of the film industry and is creatively fucked because they try to pull in people by making games "cinematic" while shirking the gameplay
AAA games are the most obviously focus grouped pieces of shit, made from focus groups filled with the most boring and average people on Earth
Your favorite indie game sucks because it's a stick figure running forward for 10 minutes with some pretentious name like "Spiritualness," which flashes on the screen when you "beat" the game
Touch controls are complete shit and I would rather simply listen to music or a podcast then waste my time with $1 crap
Nobody plays a Vita or 3DS in public over the age of 13 in the U.S. and when they do, everyone notices and thinks of how much of a man child they are
Japanese companies are a combination of a sloth and dinosaur and they have forgotten their unique strengths
Western companies are boring and by-the-numbers and do the most focus-grouping for their games
If you care about the story/cutscenes/voice acting/writing in a game at all, you suck and I hate you
The SNES is better than the genesis
It does not matter when DLC is released or in what form, it is all preplanned and "pulled from the game" these days because that makes economic sense because video games are expensive to develop and you can't just "make DLC" in a fit of inspiration one night
Zombies were cool, but then everybody ruined them
GTA4 was boring, but Saint's Row tried too hard
Your favorite review website sucks and is biased

basically, play Demon's or Dark Souls or you suck
 
BGBW said:
If it's in the options it's not stripping things away.

I still don't understand why some people would feel upset that Smash could be described as a party fighter. Mario Kart's a party racer rather than a racing sim.
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Party Fighter sounds about right.
 
BGBW said:
What's wrong with calling in a party fighter?
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What's wrong with calling it what it is; a fighting game?

BGBW said:
It ticks all the boxes. Sure you can turn off items, but on the flipside that means you can turn them on.
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Is this to imply that the existence of items invalidates it's fighting game status?

BGBW said:
. Games don't have to be pigeonholed into a handful of categories, otherwise Mario Kart and Gran Turismo would both share the genre of racing despite the fact that anyone can tell you they are completely different game.
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Like the same way Marvel vs Capcom is different from super turbo.
 
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;37682527 said:
hopefully they do or the sites probably get a lot of email from whiny kids about their mega popular game of choice not being excepted by a rather niche fighting game community.
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So you admit that no respectable or unrespectable site will claim anything else than Smash being a fighting game?

I still don't understand your argument against it. You're claiming it's a platformer like Mario Bros. But Mario Bros was a high score driven game. Collecting coins and defeating enemies is the main objective. The game has an optional 2-Player mode where you compete with a 2nd player for points. I still don't see the resemblance.
 
Kontergurke said:
So you admit that no respectable or unrespectable site will claim anything else than Smash being a fighting game?

I still don't understand your argument against it. You're claiming it's a platformer like Mario Bros. But Mario Bros was a high score driven game. Collecting coins and defeating enemies is the main objective. The game has an optional 2-Player mode where you compete with a 2nd player for points. I still don't see the resemblance.
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Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort. They can list the game as whatever they want. I may or may not agree with it.

And have you even played the first Mario Bros multiplayer? How about Joust? Should Joust be considered a fighter? It shares a lot in common with smash regardless of how old or simple its mechanics are.
 
Then what defines the "party" genre of games?

Please list the qualities of the genre like the video did for fighting games......

..you guys did watch the video right?
 
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;37683023 said:
Have you even played the first Mario Bros multiplayer? How about Joust? Should they be considered fighters?
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Are you really comparing those games to smash bros?
 
Infinite said:
What's wrong with calling it what it is; a fighting game?
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Some like to call it a party game. Stick the two words together and both camps are happy. I like to please.

Infinite said:
Is this to imply that the existence of items invalidates it's fighting game status?
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I was presented with the point that turning off items allows it to be a fighter so following that argument turning items on must make it something else. Also the video in the OP says items are a reason to consider it not a fighter.

Infinite said:
Like the same way Marvel vs Capcom is different from super turbo.
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I was comparing a kart game with a racing sim. Your example is not similar at all.
 
Billiechu said:
How is a game where you have 2 players on a 2d plane fighting each other not a fighting game?
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Is Balloon Fight a fighter. It has the word fight in the title and you battle it out of a 2D plane. How far can we take this genre?

A Pretty Panda said:
Then what defines the "party" genre of games?
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If you can play the game while in a conga line.

Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;37683186 said:
apparently the party genre doesn't exist.
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So what is Mario Party? Shut up about Smash Bros everyone, we need to give Mario Party a genre!
 
BGBW said:
I was presented with the point that turning off items allows it to be a fighter so following that argument turning items on must make it something else. Also the video in the OP says items are a reason to consider it not a fighter.
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The point is that turning off items brings Smash's random factor to the level of that of some other fighting games, defeating the point according to which it's the randomness that keeps Smash from being a fighting game.

Randomness has an effect on how suitable for competition the game is, it's not what determines the genre of the game.
 
BGBW said:
Some like to call it a party game. Stick the two words together and both camps are happy. I like to please.
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What's a party game?

BGBW said:
I was presented with the point that turning off items allows it to be a fighter so following that argument turning items on must make it something else. Also the video in the OP says items are a reason to consider it not a fighter.
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It's a fighting game if items are or aren't present is what I'm getting at with this one. Items exists in plenty other fighting games and I guess players have the ability to not choose those characters that spawn items so i guess the argument can be made that those particular games are also not fighting games.

BGBW said:
I was comparing a kart game with a racing sim. Your example is not similar at all.
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You were comparing two games which at both their cores involves using vehicles to race to a finish line.

Frank "Trashman" Reynolds;37683215 said:
Yup.
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Good job confirming that you're trolling then.
 
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