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Fighting Games Weekly | May 7-13

Oh boy, after months of peace between our people, war has broken out. Time to edit my last 5 post and erase any evidence I was involved in this.

lockebailout.gif
 
Karsticles said:
I don't think it's productive to talk about SF and MvC in terms of whether one is easier to get into over the other, or whether one is easier to master. The kinds of things you need to learn in each are pretty different. MvC is undeniably the faster of the two games, and the game that requires the most matchup knowledge (teams instead of individual characters), and the more punishing of the two, though. SF is more about patience, MvC is more about overwhelming your opponent's senses.


You earn it sir.
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Fair enough. I was just speaking from the experience of myself and my friends. Whenever we started playing both games, if we got bodied in SF4 we could kind of understand why but with MvC3 we had no clue what happened.
 
Karsticles said:
Or you could start a raffle for Jill's phone number. I'm sure that would be popular.
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Only if we are talking about classic RE1 Jill.
WesternHeretic said:
Mai > Chun Li. Yes I just went there... red shirt = totally worth it!
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Chun Li is played out these days. Mai it is.
enzo_gt said:
All resources are being poured into future titles. All we know is that one is helmed by Ono and one by Niitsuma, and that none of the upcoming projects are MvC related. Also, SFV in the next 5 years (Capcom plans 5 years in advance for everything).
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They better do their damnedest to improve SFxT. Moving on to the next thing will just leave people with doubts when new title drops.

Whatever it may be...
Karsticles said:
It depends on the artist. Morrigan looks terrible in 95% of her art despite logically being the most attractive Capcom female.
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I got a chuckle out of this one. I also agree with you.
KidA Seven said:
Why do you think there is more competition for it in the first place compared to UMvC3? Because they enjoy it more. And I'm talking globally. I think AE became stale (and thus falling behind marvel) in the US because their level of play just couldn't go further (from the players just below Justin, Ricky, Krone, etc...). You have the same people winning and because of that you see the same characters winning. Where as in Japan, any top player from their pool of elite players can win and their is a large variety of players/characters that cause that surprise/hype. The excitement is missing in US only AE tournaments and that negatively effects all the players below the elite players when inventing tech, spectating events, and generally being inspired to get on that level.

I certainly think it's on the right track to lasting the longest out of all these current fighters. It has the most players and it's the older game.
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You've got a point about the game's US development. It puzzles me that the game is not so well explored here considering it's popularity and the size of the player base. I guess the same thing could be said about Mahvel(Log trap). Even America needs international flavor to figure games out I guess.

We'll also see if the SFIV series stands the test of time.
Karsticles said:
It's a neat idea...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why a whole new Marvel fighting game instead of another MvC3 expansion with more Marvel characters? -_-

I would consider buying it for Dormammu, but who the hell else would I play? I'd need Blackheart and/or Mephisto...
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Another update would be pretty nice after EVO. The movie is out of the way so maybe Marvel will stop trying to shove Avengers down our throats.
Rice-Eater said:
Come on guys, lets not try to take away anything from either game. SF4 is popular because most people playing it actually like it. Yes, people actually like the game regardless of how ass it might be to some of you guys. The same goes for Marvel 3. I've heard so much shit talk about that game as well, but people still love it regardless. Each brings there own level of hype and excitement to the community. Marvel is highlighted with a lot of yelling and going crazy because there is never a dull moment. SF on the other hand has people watching more quietly and anxious. They're holding there breath and waiting to explode with roars when the big moments of the match comes. That's how I see both games and I love that there audiences(even with a lot of overlap) react differently during the matches.
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It's not that big of a deal. We're not call each other 09'rs or something like that. People are just having a discussion is all.
sephi22 said:
Aww shit. I just imagined what an MvC-style SF vs MK game produced by Niitsuma would be like. My brain just exploded.
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I'm sure Niitsuma's brain would explode if he was put in charge of that too.
KingofSarus said:
Street Fighter IV is popular because it's THE international fighting game.
Despite Ultra(s), it's a good game. (It ain't no 3S though)

If you think the name is the reason why it's successful, then go ahead and believe that shit.
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Names are everything now. Names and money. If it were about technical merit and great ideas then Skullgirls and KOF would have sold 500k by now.
sephi22 said:
Sf4 gives you the false idea that you're playing it right earlier than Marvel does. You can learn special, supers and basic combos in a couple of days and feel like you know all there is to know.

Marvel, on the other hand has concepts like OTGs, DHCs, assist calls, extended combos, raw tags. The first few days of mahvel would be filled with dropped combos and timeouts.

But at a higher level, when you play someone decent and 'get' what the meat and potatoes of each game are, SF will take a lot of hard work to get good at (footsies, OSs, matchups) while its relatively easier to get good or reach a intermediate level in Marvel.

TLDR: SF gives you the impression that you learnt it way easier than marvel does. Hence SF is easier to get into than marvel but way harder to master
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I'd say reaching an intermediate level in Mahvel is just as hard. The team combinations alone are staggering and can change things drastically.
Karsticles said:
Hahaha, I can't wait.
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This is something I would spectate. Also, I don't think he'd want to do this at EVO. I'm pretty sure Mike Z is gonna wreck him there too. :P
Professor Beef said:
Sure is a lot of bullshit being thrown around in here. :|
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Yeah, but it's our bullshit. It's not brazzers drama, Esports, triforce trolling or people talking about which FGC girl they would bang.

We are moving up. :')
Karsticles said:
No no, KidA! Solarpowered only gets upset about Hsien-ko being terrible. Or at least he once did. His morbidity over her complete lack of fighting power made him lose the capacity for being upset about anything in life. In a sense, he came to say to himself: "What fate could be worse than wanting to main Hsien-ko in UMvC3?"
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Worse?

Having to play Ono's version of Darkstalkers with SFIV inspired art assets. That or getting my balls chewed off by a rabid chimpanzee.
KingofSarus said:
Marvel 3 fanboys wouldn't know a good game even if it slapped them in the face.

At least Japan have fun with it while knowing it's a "shit game."
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Not only do I know my good games. I play them too. Can't wait for that GGAC+ to drop come Summer.
 
crimsonspider89 said:
Alright then, find posts where Fchamp/ChrisG/Marlinpie/Noel(he didn't shat on it, just saying didn't have many gorgeous characters)/Rog/Viscant(trying to get better) constantly shat on it. Hell, Yipes now that he has started to take it seriously has quit giving it issues.
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It's not all about them shitting on it.
It's about them knowing that it's not a great competitive game to play. (Which is why they shit on it)

A lot of the young and upcoming players love this game.
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Because they're young!

Nah, I'm playin'.

Vice said:
At the time stuff like super meter, parrying, alpha counters and custom combos were considered pieces of shit by large, or vocal, chunks of the community because they destroyed the risk-reward gameplay that made Sf2 good to them. So yes, they did have bullshit.
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Super Meter & Alpha Counters are not bullshit.

Parrying and Custom Combos are only bullshit, because scrubs couldn't master them.
I, myself, couldn't master 'em, especially CC, because I ignored SFZ3 for XvSF. (I love 3S and I'm still not godlike at parrying.)

For example, currently a lot of people think SFIV isn't as good as older games because of ultras and how the game heavily favors vortex characters.
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It's not... but all that shit doesn't even compare to X-Factor alone.

SolarPowered said:
Not only do I know my good games. I play them too. Can't wait for that GGAC+ to drop come Summer.
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Real talk, I am ass at Guilty Gear, but I respect the fuck out of it.

I'm getting it too for the love.
 
rCIZZLE said:
Fair enough. I was just speaking from the experience of myself and my friends. Whenever we started playing both games, if we got bodied in SF4 we could kind of understand why but with MvC3 we had no clue what happened.
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It's funny you say that, because that was something Gootecks said when he first started playing. I still have "I don't understand what happened there" moments, but the longer you play the less frequent they are. One thing that would reduce those moments is Capcom having an expanding screen instead of a shifting screen implemented in Marvel. Aside from "tradition", I can't think of why losing sight of a character could be part of good game design.

Rice-Eater said:
Oh boy, after months of peace between our people, war has broken out. Time to edit my last 5 post and erase any evidence I was involved in this.

lockebailout.gif
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You can't escape your fate, it's all recorded in people quoting you!

SolarPowered said:
Having to play Ono's version of Darkstalkers with SFIV inspired art assets. That or getting my balls chewed off by a rabid chimpanzee.
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SFIV-style Morrigan makes me sad and flaccid.

KingofSarus said:
It's not... but all that shit doesn't even compare to X-Factor alone.
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X-Factor is a great feature IMO.
 
God this thread turned into a clusterfuck in the matter of 2 hours. Who cares what some pro players or Japan think of a game. As long as both the players and spectators are enjoying themselves, then it's a good fighting game. This topic reminds me of a certain picture..

NoFunAllowed.jpg
 
KingofSarus said:
Super Meter & Alpha Counters are not bullshit.
Click to expand...
They completely changed the pace of the game and rewarded certain playstyles a bit more than others. Super meter also made punishes go from something that would usually result in somewhat minor damage into an easy 40%.

Parrying and Custom Combos are only bullshit, because scrubs couldn't master them.
I, myself, couldn't master 'em, especially CC, because I ignored SFZ3 for XvSF. (I love 3S and I'm still not godlike at parrying.)
Click to expand...
Both of those mechanics also heavily favored certain play styles while making other character archetypes much worse.


It's not... but all that shit doesn't even compare to X-Factor alone.
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I feel that Xfactor is about as useful as an ultra or some other boost mechanic like hyper drive mode. The only problem with it is that a handful of characters benefit from Xfactor more than the rest of the cast.
 
sleepykyo said:
I think it's a superior mechanic to rage (Tekken) or ultras (SF4), but a great feature is kind of stretching it.
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I honestly haven't the slightest clue why anyone would be against it. It's not a normal comeback mechanic that rewards bad play like ultras or rage. In SFIV, if you have 10% life and your opponent has 80% life, you are still on completely even ground. You haven't lost any potential strength there. In Marvel, losing 1/3 of your life can involve losing character potential. In short, it only makes sense that there would be some way to even the discrepancy and make the fight worth playing out. Otherwise the matches would be really stale after the first two characters die. Comebacks would be one in a million.
 
Karsticles said:
I honestly haven't the slightest clue why anyone would be against it. It's not a normal comeback mechanic that rewards bad play like ultras or rage. In SFIV, if you have 10% life and your opponent has 80% life, you are still on completely even ground.
Click to expand...

Between this and that guy claiming you have basically mastered SF4 after 6 hours in training mode learning links, this thread has been good for a laugh.
 
Karsticles said:
I honestly haven't the slightest clue why anyone would be against it. It's not a normal comeback mechanic that rewards bad play like ultras or rage. In SFIV, if you have 10% life and your opponent has 80% life, you are still on completely even ground.
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Because it is still a comeback mechanic that gets better as you get further behind. I'd have no problem with it at all, if it were simply a straight lvl2 regardless of when it gets popped. Right now, the only reason I put it above ultras and rage, is because it doesn't have to be a comeback tool. It can and is arguably better used to gain an early advantage.

You haven't lost any potential strength there. In Marvel, losing 1/3 of your life can involve losing character potential. In short, it only makes sense that there would be some way to even the discrepancy and make the fight worth playing out. Otherwise the matches would be really stale after the first two characters die. Comebacks would be one in a million.
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That's what made it impressive in MvC2 though. For all that talk regarding how punishing MvC3, it seems only natural that if someone lost 2 characters that they should lose the game. Just gg Starcraft 2 style and get on to the next match.
 
Conceited said:
Between this and that guy claiming you have basically mastered SF4 after 6 hours in training mode learning links, this thread has been good for a laugh.
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Tell me one thing, besides health, that is different between a character at 10% life, and a character at 90% life, in SFIV.

Hint below:
Nothing.

If you think I was saying anything beyond that, it's just back to your poor reasoning skills. I can only hope that you won't attempt to derive a difference dependent upon the health difference while thinking it's a valid response.

sleepykyo said:
Because it is still a comeback mechanic that gets better as you get further behind. I'd have no problem with it at all, if it were simply a straight lvl2 regardless of when it gets popped.
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Then it wouldn't make up for the lost character potential.

That's what made it impressive in MvC2 though. For all that talk regarding how punishing MvC3, it seems only natural that if someone lost their 2 characters that they should lose the game. Just gg Starcraft 2 style and get on to the next match.
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X-Factor takes the "GG lets move on" and turns it into a whole aspect of the fight. It keeps the match exciting and interesting until the end.
 
Vice said:
They completely changed the pace of the game and rewarded certain playstyles a bit more than others. Super meter also made punishes go from something that would usually result in somewhat minor damage into an easy 40%.
Click to expand...
Both of those mechanics also heavily favored certain play styles while making other character archetypes much worse.
Click to expand...

You're joking, right? lol

I feel that Xfactor is about as useful as an ultra or some other boost mechanic like hyper drive mode. The only problem with it is that a handful of characters benefit from Xfactor more than the rest of the cast.
Click to expand...

Not even close.

Karsticles said:
You need to start, because this is Marvel 3 I'm talking about, not Marvel 2.
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You did not get the point at all, my friend...
 
Karsticles said:
It's funny you say that, because that was something Gootecks said when he first started playing. I still have "I don't understand what happened there" moments, but the longer you play the less frequent they are. One thing that would reduce those moments is Capcom having an expanding screen instead of a shifting screen implemented in Marvel. Aside from "tradition", I can't think of why losing sight of a character could be part of good game design.
Click to expand...
It's kind of funny, but I noticed that Diemininion's sou sou sou becomes erratic when people superjump and he can't see her in motion. Chris G doesn't falter though. It could be interesting to change the camera for a better view though. I can't recall a moment when Niitsuma stated that Super Jumps were made with such an advantage in mind.
Karsticles said:
SFIV-style Morrigan makes me sad and flaccid.
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I guess that just makes her an even better Succubus than before. :P

I don't want to think of Hsien-Ko with a Cammy or Sakura model...
Karsticles said:
X-Factor is a great feature IMO.
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Mike Z talks briefly about X-factor towards the end of this video(which was pretty much devoid of Skullgirls and cooties).

The mechanic does require that you still use footsies and good reads to make the most of it. XF3 Wesker wouldn't be half as dangerous unless the player knew how to use that speed for insane command grabs and cross under moves on incoming characters. Not to mention the setups that different characters can have with XF(Wesker's phantom dance XF cancels for example). It's definitely above mashing a couple of buttons for a high damage ultra.
KingofSarus said:
It sure is.

That's why when everyone was like: "Nerf X-Factor, let us turn it on or off, or just straight up remove it." Capcom was like: "BAM! YOU CAN DO THAT SHIT UP IN THE 'IRRRR NOW, SON!"
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That's why Capcom put X-factor in Wesker's X-factor. They did it so he could X-factor while he X-factored.

^_^
WesternHeretic said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMcv56mrJeg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqpLRUeycto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVmc5ZepdVs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97N1pFE6j58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRBBL3QJrQM

Do I need to keep going?
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Yes

for my viewing pleasure...
 
WesternHeretic said:
I see what you did there...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AwOfFz6ZPQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-bd1xgFnZM

Yes both of them started when he no longer had X-factor.
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I've seen these, and I said my comment with these videos in mind. Like I said, this sort of thing is one in a million. I didn't say it wouldn't ever happen, and I wasn't thinking it wouldn't ever happen. I've seen it happen, and it's hype as fuck, far more hype than an X-Factor comeback. None of that disagrees with what I've said, though.

It has been so long since I saw a Vanilla video that I wondered what was wrong with the health bars though, haha.

SolarPowered said:
It's kind of funny, but I noticed that Diemininion's sou sou sou becomes erratic when people superjump and he can't see her in motion. Chris G doesn't falter though. It could be interesting to change the camera for a better view though. I can't recall a moment when Niitsuma stated that Super Jumps were made with such an advantage in mind.
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Yeah, personally I'm a very visual person. I can't do a lot of Dormammu combos that involve Stalking Flare because I can't time them without seeing when he is going into recovery. My muscle memory isn't my best feature.
 
WesternHeretic said:
No I just wanted to post MVC2 videos for guilty pleasure.

Man there's 3 match that come to mind that I can't find... fuck I thought YOUTUBE HAD EVERYTHING!!!! Apparently they don't have 2005-2007 matches that I'm looking for. =(
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Sometimes I forget that there was this period during my life when Youtube wasn't around, and people didn't record things. I look for stuff and get confused as to why no one uploaded any videos of the game...
 
Spooky getting 8k views and Fighting game weekly threads getting 1000+ posts
of arguments
. This is a glorious time.
 
Holy fucking shit, you people. 9_9

smurfx said:
i'm sure the people who are really going to evo to play kof aren't going to be complaining about people only signing up for the shirt since it means the pot will be bigger for them.
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Man... it's like Atlus put forth a pot bonus without actually having to put forth a pot bonus.

Fucking geniuses.
 
Rice-Eater said:
Oh boy, after months of peace between our people, war has broken out. Time to edit my last 5 post and erase any evidence I was involved in this.

lockebailout.gif
Click to expand...

Rice-Eater said:
Wait, so let me get this straight. Top 3 games at EVO are

1. SSF4AE 2012
2. Red T-shirt
3. UMVC3

PHO-REALZ? We really gonna have like 500+ dudes at EVO who are going to have no fucking idea how to play one of the games they registered? If Wiz is seriously not bullshitting us then KOFXIII will probably blow away the DQ record, whatever that record may be.
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Troll harder my man. ;)

Also.. what the hell happened here?
 
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