Keighley: Epic says UE4 not targeted at Wii U on GTTV, Epic responds [Updated Again]
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krypt0nian
Banned
I was thinking how good it felt to love and defend the GameCube, back when Nintendo was at/near the top of the tech heap.
How things have changed.
How things have changed.
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all, even though I was open to the possibility. Not trolling, but if UE4 takes off next Gen, this could hurt the chances of some multi-plat games appearing on the Wii-U.
That has nothing to do with it. As tech develops and improves, that benefits everyone in the industry. If the PSV launched in 2005, you'd see far less advanced games.
That said, the PSV does not stack up to the PS360.
That's definitely not how I'm reading it.
I hope you're joking...>_>
I doubt it's weighty to Epic or even Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't cater to them and there is already an engine out that can run on the Wii-U. On top of this, Nintendo themselves have downplayed the importance of tech, so that goes against Epic's initiative with UE4.
Besides, it's unlikely that Epic is directly involved with anything Wii-U related, so I doubt they are bound by any NDA.
That has nothing to do with it. As tech develops and improves, that benefits everyone in the industry. If the PSV launched in 2005, you'd see far less advanced games.
That said, the PSV does not stack up to the PS360.
You guys should just wait until Epic actually says this themselves before making assumptions.
Oh, and the question was: "Can you hint if the Wii U will be able to run UE4?"
Geoff said "no" (he can't hint) but he added that it will run UE3
That's definitely not how I'm reading it.
MULTIPLE PARTICLES?!?!?!
I hope you're joking...>_>
I doubt it's weighty to Epic or even Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't cater to them and there is already an engine out that can run on the Wii-U. On top of this, Nintendo themselves have downplayed the importance of tech, so that goes against Epic's initiative with UE4.
Besides, it's unlikely that Epic is directly involved with anything Wii-U related, so I doubt they are bound by any NDA.
Dark Ninja
Member
Meh ill just buy multiple consoles im not missing the Nintendo games
iamshadowlark
Banned
So now the agenda is to dismiss UE4 as something Nintendo doesn't need anyway, even after all the bickering and praying? Serious question didn't read the whole thread.
abstract alien
Member
I was thinking how good it felt to love and defend the GameCube, back when Nintendo was at/near the top of the tech heap.
How things have changed.
Well, the tech they are using is still really great, it's just not solely devoted to visual output. The problem with that is Nintendo can and will demonstrate some truly amazing shit that will force you to question reality, but we can't expect any third party outside of capcom to do the same for the system. It involves too much work I suppose, and that doesn't bode well for companies that are already afraid to put games on a Nintendo platform as it is due to "risk".
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Yes. Exactly. If you support Epic and admit that Wii U not running it will hurt its chances for some 3rd party titles you are akin to a Nintendo hater by a few folks. Dont know why we cant just love games instead of picking sides.
I H8 Memes
Member
They were talking about their own engines. The entire article takes short comings of UE3 and applies them to the entire industry.
Here is my favorite quote.
CryEngine has been doing this for years. This is videogame journalism man. I hold even sports journalists in higher regard.
I'm pretty sure he was joking.
Is the next mario, mario kart, or smash brothers going to use UE4? If not, then it isnt something Nintendo needs.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Wow, is that from the Wired.com article as well? That was some poorly written shit, I didn't even bother to finish reading.
MikeHaggar
Member
i think ue3 could still look really great on more advanced hardware. i mean, isn't it accepted that the wii u should have at least 1GB of usable ram? better textures. perhaps the gpu will allow for higher precision for shadows, self-shadowing, and transparencies as well... or what about AA? perhaps the extra power in the wii u will allow ue3 games to run at 60fps..
honestly, thinking about ue3 games running on hardware that allows for better textures and increased image quality is pretty appealing. epic continues to update ue3 and gears 3 was really great-looking so...
the ue3 hate really boggles my mind. it's a very nice-looking engine. it runs at native 720p (something SO many games struggle to do) and produces amazing visuals. i'm struggling to think of other engines that compete with it on consoles. naughty dog's, sony santa monica's, and capcom's mt framework tech does... what else?
honestly, thinking about ue3 games running on hardware that allows for better textures and increased image quality is pretty appealing. epic continues to update ue3 and gears 3 was really great-looking so...
the ue3 hate really boggles my mind. it's a very nice-looking engine. it runs at native 720p (something SO many games struggle to do) and produces amazing visuals. i'm struggling to think of other engines that compete with it on consoles. naughty dog's, sony santa monica's, and capcom's mt framework tech does... what else?
krypt0nian
Banned
I don't remember the last time this happened. I believe Pikmin was the last real Nintendo magic for me personally. I believe that they have the potential with WiiU with some new IP that can wow me again, but the sequels have lost their magic for me.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
What actually (no irony) does catch my eye here is the supposed new tools that make development easier and cheaper. I'm not all "ra ra UE4 games are going to kick ass!" but "cool, maybe devs might survive next gen!"
tbh, I think all third party engine owners need to focus on development tools at this point, rather than pure engine power.
I dunno. The last Nintendo console that had a good 3rd party showing relative to its competitors was the SNES. Nintendo have been flying without strong 3rd party support for a decade and a half now.So basically
That's extremely short-sighted.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
The logical conclusion of what you've just said is that Nintendo doesn't need any third party support. Is that what you're trying to say?
He didn't mention "hipsters" so that isn't even the worst article to argue about.
As for UE4, I'm wondering when it gets used full force. They expect developers to stick with UE3 for the early part of the next cycle, which could mean through 2014 (there are already a bunch of high profile UE3 games coming out next year). How many developers that will be eligible to use it will have the asset budget?
A lot of the bigger selling franchises that generate a ton of money will keep using their own engines. I wonder if they are banking on a lot of publishers taking a Rockstar-esque approach of using one engine across the board. WB and the like would be potential targets.
Glass Rebel
Member
People are against progress if they can't have it. News at 11.
You'd think people would have learned from this generation but no dice.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Yep.
fushi
Member
Good thinking, bro! The dearth of third-party titles sure made the gamecube popular!
Better (more realistic) lighting. Full dynamic rendering for every object in the world.
And people still bought a Wii. And 3rd parties on Wii are almost irrelevant. And still people will buy Wii U. Nintendo platforms only need Nintendo games and they sell only Nintendo games in huge numbers. Nintendo doesn't need 3rd parties at all (but of course they want to make even more money of them). Nintendo will once again sell outdated tech at a price that's high enough to turn a sizeable profit on the hardware alone and bundle it with a gadget. It's what they do since the DS because it works. IIRC their initial expectation for the DS when it was presented was "we want to sell 5 % of what we sold in GBs and GBAs, then it is not a failure". Wii U follows Apples strategy. You have one successful product, you gotta cash in on it. iPod Touch -> iPhone -> iPad. It's basically still the same product, just more powerful and bigger. Nintendo takes the (3)DS and puts it in the living room.
It probably is and thasts prabably whats going to happen
abstract alien
Member
I was speaking more on the visual side. Nintendo pulls great things out of their hardware, along with capcom as well, but most others don't even bother to try and yank at its secrets. Retro has done some phenomenal things visually as well for Nintendo, but I guess that doesn't count since they aren't third party. Their systems are more than capable for impressive visuals, is all I was really getting at. That zelda tech demo was great, but I'm pretty sure most third party games won't go that far visually. I would love to eat a heaping pile of crow on that one though.
At least we don't have to worry about the controls being more screwed up than they normally would have been.
Glass Rebel
Member
Not that the discussions in this thread were worth any damn with people dissecting the tweet on a grammatical level... but now "Nintendo magic" has entered the thread? smh.
I H8 Memes
Member
So you expect 3rd party companies to make 2 versions of the same game? One in UE3 and another in UE4.
Yeah pretty much.
Could Nintendo use third party support? Of course. Does it need it when the mass public will buy the same kart game in the multi-millions over and over or make a console the best sold console despite it being nearly a generation behind in graphical and computing technology with virtually no online component AND essentially no third party support? No.
Just Dance sold 5 million copies and moved a lot of units.
They always need some third party support.
Yes but when people talk about third party support in this thread they obviously don't mean no third party support whatsoever. Obviously people are talking third party support of the hardcore, bleeding edge kind. Even if Wii U couldn't run UE1, it would still have some sort of third party support, that's a given.
If we are talking just general third party support, third party will jump on any Nintendo console simply based on its brand and its IP.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Nintendo seems to be proactively working with 3rd parties this time around. They have tried to make the machine easy to develop for with the focus on quick and efficient game ports.
Third party is key to the success on WiiU. We will see if that strategy is successful.
The thing is that Nintendo sees this as an issue, and even when one could argue that they could still "win" without third party support.. imagine what they can pull off if they get ahead there as well.
Look at the DS library..
My belief is that they are seriously going to push for this and probably succeed for what remains of this cycle/beggining of the next.
Glass Rebel
Member
Funny thing, not even Nintendo agrees with you.
Barkley's Justice
Member
a teams are
StreetsAhead
Member
Sorry - meant features of the chips themselves.
That's what I was wondering. Personally I don't care about these things but I can see how it would become a problem for Nintendo down the line, assuming the next Xbox/PS can run it.
The fact is it is not a given that UE4 will be the go to engine for next gen consoles. We seem to be assuming that just because it happened this gen it will happen again the next.
For all we know UE4 could turn out to be a clusterfuck.
I prefer Rage so as long as that runs ill be happy.
For all we know UE4 could turn out to be a clusterfuck.
I prefer Rage so as long as that runs ill be happy.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Wow, Wii-U not running Unreal 4 isn't a deal breaker because I feel that Nintendo has solid game design so the games released will be fun but it does diminish my opinion of the console a little bit.
Glass Rebel
Member
Not saying you're wrong but what has Rage to do with this? It's running on an Engine which only iD and Bethesda/ZeniMax games will use.
Brad Grenz
Member
Like with UE3, UE4 compatibility isn't a matter of power, but programmability. If WiiU doesn't support the base level of GPU programmability UE4 requires, it won't be supported by Epic.
If they 100% didn't, there wouldn't be any rumors floating around about Nintendo not being able to run this or not supporting that.
It isn't as if Nintendo doesn't have the know-how or couldn't hire people to implement an online system every bit as good as XBL. It isn't as if Nintendo couldn't get newer hardware and make every single story published on the Wii U about how incredibly far ahead the Wii U is in graphical fidelity compared to the PS360.
No, Nintendo doesn't feel it needs the hardcore third parties that require the demanding hardware, the robust online systems as much as it needs to 1) keep hardware costs down to both ensure that Nintendo makes a profit on hardware and to make it affordable for anyone and everyone to purchase and, 2) keep children safe should they dare venture into the dark, seedy alleyway that is the internet.
I meant the rage software engine that rockstar use and if it runs rockstar games on wii u are viable and that alone would be great for nintendos third party aims.
Iwata has said in investor's meetings that they lost a segment of the market with the Wii that they want to get back with the Wii U.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
That's exactly what we're going to see happening in the first couple of years, one version for Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 and another one targeting PS4, Xbox 3 and PC (although I suppose some may lump PC with current gen consoles, like what happened with Just Cause and a few other games at the start of this gen).
What I've said earlier in the thread, the fact that Epic asked them to improve even more at GDC, because otherwise their consoles wouldn't be able to run it as Epic would like. Even if it seems that Microsoft is improving the hardware for UE4, from what we've been hearing.
But I still think UE4 will be scalable in order to run on Wii U ( which isn't absolutely a garbage like Wii was compared to PS360 )...this if 3rd party games will sell on the platform. So, yeah, Nintendo needs third parties, and they're strongly working with them this time.
Glass Rebel
Member
Why are you trying to back up your claims with rumours when you have Iwata explicitly saying that they need third-parties on board and it's been one of the biggest concerns of shareholders?
Obviously, Nintendo won't try to appease third-parties with everything but neither are Microsoft or Sony.
jonno394 said:
Ah, gotcha. Sorry.
They absolutely need 3rd party support over the long haul. You can't keep banking on home runs from such a limited pool of talent. What if they stumble on the next Mario release? What if the next Zelda is superb but for whatever reason their is apathy from the game buyers? Diversity in development will lessen the risk of failure, and at some point Nintendo can and will fail.
But you say there are so many teams doing this and that. Well that may be true but look at online capabilities, one would think the entire kit and caboodle would be vested in the Wii why then does no one correct the shat multiplayer? Who knows not a game breaker, but what if they ignored a wildly popular game mechanic or some such nonsense? That is to say, irregardless of how many teams or how big Nintendo is they can still fail collectively. Best to have multiple perspectives, multiple teams working on multiple games.
boiled goose
good with gravy
not... good...
good luck with core gamers Nintendo.
good luck with core gamers Nintendo.
Yes I'm fully aware of what they said. But first of all, Iwata can say whatever he wants, but like the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Regardless of the rumors one thing is for sure, the Wii U is not going to blow the current gen consoles out of the water - it could be and probably will be more powerful, but to a great degree? It's not going to happen. With the cost of that tablet and Nintendo's philosophy of not releasing incredibly expensive consoles, it's simply not possible.
Secondly, where in his meetings did he state that the segment of gamers they lost had to be won back with UE4 support and the absolute newest hardware advances? Like I said earlier, regardless of whether the Wii U runs UE4 or not, they will have third party support. Maybe they won't have Epic, Bungie, whatever, but they will have third party support nonetheless. But you guys arguing with me are all talking about the kind of third party support that would use things like UE4, and I'll maintain my point that Nintendo doesn't need that.
From a tech standpoint, Epic is far more likely to support the Vita than the 3DS. But is that going to cause the 3DS to suddenly sell worse than the Vita should Epic do just that? I seriously doubt it. The 3DS is never going to get the third party support from the devs that specialize in bleeding-edge graphics and that's not going to sink the system just like a lack of that kind of third party support won't sink the Wii U. So no Nintendo doesn't NEED it.
Nah. At least it's not a more lateral movement like the Wii was from the Gamecube. I would love to play Nintendo games in HD with PS360 horsepower (or a little more). Sure, it's old tech, but I've been waiting for my Metroid/Zeldas/Marios with a legitimate power bump.