Hey, uh, has this ever happened? (McElroy: GAF has actively tried to fool the press)
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Hot Coldman
Banned
Isn't McElroy the guy who spent most of E3 talking about how "PUBLISHERS ARE DEAD" yet will still glad suck Bethesda's dick whenever they come back around
SlipperyFishes
Banned
If anything McElroy is at his best when he's not left to his own devices. Having others involved seems to bring out the best in him, like The Besties.
Now Kotaku, since Totilo took over the corner office it's obvious that there is a bigger focus on controversial output like "white gamers have it easy", "rape culture and my staff" and general tabloid journalism. He also seems to have staff make blunt and stunted sentences in most articles.
This is disappointing.
Especially more so was the awful Kotaku Network concept where there is "scheduled" programming. Seems everything Crecente built over the past seven years in regards to the sites credibility was discarded as quickly as it took for his seat to cool.
Now Kotaku, since Totilo took over the corner office it's obvious that there is a bigger focus on controversial output like "white gamers have it easy", "rape culture and my staff" and general tabloid journalism. He also seems to have staff make blunt and stunted sentences in most articles.
This is disappointing.
Especially more so was the awful Kotaku Network concept where there is "scheduled" programming. Seems everything Crecente built over the past seven years in regards to the sites credibility was discarded as quickly as it took for his seat to cool.
Maklershed
Member
So this McElroy fella is of the opinion that NeoGAF actively tries to fool the game press but yet he still posts information on his website that was obtained from NeoGAF and he does nothing to verify its authenticity?
EDIT: Oops just read through the thread and saw creamhackered's response. I take back my question/accusation. Although it still begs the question why McElroy wasn't bothered by something questionable being posted on the site he works for (because presumably when he responded to Klepick he wasn't aware that creamhackered looked into it) but then again maybe he doesn't have the authority to take it down.
EDIT: Oops just read through the thread and saw creamhackered's response. I take back my question/accusation. Although it still begs the question why McElroy wasn't bothered by something questionable being posted on the site he works for (because presumably when he responded to Klepick he wasn't aware that creamhackered looked into it) but then again maybe he doesn't have the authority to take it down.
reptilescorpio
Member
Hey guys.
Tom Warren here (Senior Editor at The Verge). I posted this story at The Verge yesterday. I just wanted to clear up a few things and address some points I've seen posted elsewhere etc. The Xbox 720 leak was covered by The Verge at The Verge, not Polygon at The Verge. I know the temporary home can be confusing at times, but thought it was important to point that out.
As for how we check these types of stories. I have been reporting on Microsoft for around 12 years now. That's not to say I know everything about Microsoft and its processes, but I have a fairly good idea of what is and isn't an internal doc usually after the first few pages. This document in question is from August 2010, prior to iOS 4.2 (mentioned in the PPT notes) and when certain team members (mentioned in doc notes) were still at the company in engineering roles. The document references several employees by name and uses one of Microsoft's internal "CSG_Pres" PowerPoint templates (an early example of their Metro style PowerPoint templates that are used regularly internally now).
Couple this with the fact it aligns with other information I've seen about Nextbox over the past year, it aligned perfectly. The document also references Microsoft's SmartGlass technology (announced at E3). I went through a number of other ways to verify the information was as accurate as other stories we would report on - I'm not going to outline the exact processes because I like to keep those secret
We make every attempt to ensure this type of data is accurate. I ran a number of stories ahead of this year's E3, and they were all accurate:
Microsoft to bring full Internet Explorer browsing to Xbox 360 with Kinect controls
Exclusive: Kinect Play Fit to offer universal exercise tracking with 'Joule' heart rate monitor
Exclusive: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription
Exclusive: Microsoft to preview 'Woodstock' Xbox music service at E3
Hopefully this clears up any questions over how we vet this type of information. I don't typically report on Xbox or gaming news (its not my core knowledge) but I do enjoy reading Neogaf threads from time to time. You guys have an amazing community here so keep it up
Thanks,
Tom
Thanks for responding with a professional and informative post, glad to hear that there is more going on to the story than we have heard so far. I have actually enjoyed quite a few Verge pieces so far which is more than I can say for most other media outlets.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Same Here
TelemachusD
Member
These gifs need to be combined somehow.
spinning_pink_tshirts.gif
Hey guys.
Tom Warren here (Senior Editor at The Verge). I posted this story at The Verge yesterday. I just wanted to clear up a few things and address some points I've seen posted elsewhere etc. The Xbox 720 leak was covered by The Verge at The Verge, not Polygon at The Verge. I know the temporary home can be confusing at times, but thought it was important to point that out.
As for how we check these types of stories. I have been reporting on Microsoft for around 12 years now. That's not to say I know everything about Microsoft and its processes, but I have a fairly good idea of what is and isn't an internal doc usually after the first few pages. This document in question is from August 2010, prior to iOS 4.2 (mentioned in the PPT notes) and when certain team members (mentioned in doc notes) were still at the company in engineering roles. The document references several employees by name and uses one of Microsoft's internal "CSG_Pres" PowerPoint templates (an early example of their Metro style PowerPoint templates that are used regularly internally now).
Couple this with the fact it aligns with other information I've seen about Nextbox over the past year, it aligned perfectly. The document also references Microsoft's SmartGlass technology (announced at E3). I went through a number of other ways to verify the information was as accurate as other stories we would report on - I'm not going to outline the exact processes because I like to keep those secret
We make every attempt to ensure this type of data is accurate. I ran a number of stories ahead of this year's E3, and they were all accurate:
Microsoft to bring full Internet Explorer browsing to Xbox 360 with Kinect controls
Exclusive: Kinect Play Fit to offer universal exercise tracking with 'Joule' heart rate monitor
Exclusive: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription
Exclusive: Microsoft to preview 'Woodstock' Xbox music service at E3
Hopefully this clears up any questions over how we vet this type of information. I don't typically report on Xbox or gaming news (its not my core knowledge) but I do enjoy reading Neogaf threads from time to time. You guys have an amazing community here so keep it up
Thanks,
Tom
Dude this is pretty awesome. So basically the answer to
"Did anyone actually look into whether or not this leak might be real?"
was
"Yes, we did."
I mean wow.... I'm pretty sure even twitter allows enough characters for that response. This is a whole lot of drama and hurt feelings for no damn reason. I had a feeling the guy just had a chip on his shoulder, but this pretty much confirms it. He had absolutely no reason to be self conscious or name drop GAF like that.
Since the whole "healtherift thing" and then the games journalism.gif blowup yeah i think he dislikes gaf. You may be on to something.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!?!?!?!
The lack of professionalism is pretty amazing, especially among the blogger types who want to be treated like journalists.
I remember making a post on the Robot Entertainment forums discussing the PC-exclusive situation with Orcs Must Die 2, and how 360 players could get their gamepads working on their PCs. A few hours later, an article on XBLAfans appears pretty much lifting the entire contents of my post word or word. Dude wtf? I do not work for Robot or Microsoft and you probably should not be using my forum posts like they're a real source.
For those who don't know who Justin McElroy is:
Edit: got that covered, Y2Kev
Oooooooooooooooooooooooh. He's that one.
Carry on!
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
It's Vox. You should expect this kind of thing with some of the people hired over the recent year.
Diablohead
Member
For those who don't know who Justin McElroy is:
Edit: got that covered, Y2Kev
This needs to be in the OP.
demosthenes
Member
Oh gosh not you again, you tease!
VOX GAMES
also known as GAMING @ THE VERGE
also known as POLYGON
The whole "GAF = Falsified" stigma seems strangely archaic. Like some stodgy old high-school teacher that insists that "anyone can post on the Internet, so it must be fake!"
Where's my UMvC3 arcade edition dooder?
ClosingADoor
Member
While I understand the reactions in this thread, why do we act like all gaming journalists/critics are the same? I mean, we don't want people generalising GAF, but a lot of people here are just saying all gaming journalism is bad. Doesn't really seem fair to quality sites and magazines like Game Industry, Eurogamer, EDGE, etc.
Having said that, just lifting some stuff form a forum and posting it without at least some research is unacceptable. Most info in GAF threads comes from other websites anyway, so why not list that as the original source then.
Having said that, just lifting some stuff form a forum and posting it without at least some research is unacceptable. Most info in GAF threads comes from other websites anyway, so why not list that as the original source then.
I still don't understand the hatred this guy gets.For those who don't know who Justin McElroy is:
Edit: got that covered, Y2Kev
His podcast My Brother, My Brother and Me is the funniest shit ever.
EDIT- Nevermind, it's GAF, i understand the hatred now. GAF Hates everything and everyone who questions them.
Hey guys.
Tom Warren here (Senior Editor at The Verge). I posted this story at The Verge yesterday. I just wanted to clear up a few things and address some points I've seen posted elsewhere etc. The Xbox 720 leak was covered by The Verge at The Verge, not Polygon at The Verge. I know the temporary home can be confusing at times, but thought it was important to point that out.
As for how we check these types of stories. I have been reporting on Microsoft for around 12 years now. That's not to say I know everything about Microsoft and its processes, but I have a fairly good idea of what is and isn't an internal doc usually after the first few pages. This document in question is from August 2010, prior to iOS 4.2 (mentioned in the PPT notes) and when certain team members (mentioned in doc notes) were still at the company in engineering roles. The document references several employees by name and uses one of Microsoft's internal "CSG_Pres" PowerPoint templates (an early example of their Metro style PowerPoint templates that are used regularly internally now).
Couple this with the fact it aligns with other information I've seen about Nextbox over the past year, it aligned perfectly. The document also references Microsoft's SmartGlass technology (announced at E3). I went through a number of other ways to verify the information was as accurate as other stories we would report on - I'm not going to outline the exact processes because I like to keep those secret
We make every attempt to ensure this type of data is accurate. I ran a number of stories ahead of this year's E3, and they were all accurate:
Microsoft to bring full Internet Explorer browsing to Xbox 360 with Kinect controls
Exclusive: Kinect Play Fit to offer universal exercise tracking with 'Joule' heart rate monitor
Exclusive: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription
Exclusive: Microsoft to preview 'Woodstock' Xbox music service at E3
Hopefully this clears up any questions over how we vet this type of information. I don't typically report on Xbox or gaming news (its not my core knowledge) but I do enjoy reading Neogaf threads from time to time. You guys have an amazing community here so keep it up
Thanks,
Tom
Great post. I just hope Klepeck read it.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Polygon is almost entirely created from a set of vertices of my least favourite gaming journalism 'characters'. They've created a truly foreboding fog of shit over there.
Events like this go further to just revealing how bad this amateurish world of "words about tech/videogames for monies" can get, on both parts though, not just Polygon's. I think I like the description I read once of Klepek as being like a rabid news ferret really quite applicable. Nipping at heels, skittering along the floor at breakneck speeds, opinions formed before mental process have even kicked in.
Events like this go further to just revealing how bad this amateurish world of "words about tech/videogames for monies" can get, on both parts though, not just Polygon's. I think I like the description I read once of Klepek as being like a rabid news ferret really quite applicable. Nipping at heels, skittering along the floor at breakneck speeds, opinions formed before mental process have even kicked in.
There absolutely nothing wrong with a journalist questioning things. NOTHING.
McElroy's isolationist, protective stance of his own clique is horrible.
gamergirly
Member
Everything is hated on gaf. That's the principle of things. It was Aiesha Taylor last week lol
I think the fact that The Verge actually DID use methods to verify the document's authenticity makes Justin McElroy look even worse.
He basically just got defensive and tried to take a free dig at NeoGAF when he could have just said, "Yes...we have our methods of verifying this type of stuff."
At least if they hadn't verified the info, he would have a reason to be so defensive right from the jump.
He basically just got defensive and tried to take a free dig at NeoGAF when he could have just said, "Yes...we have our methods of verifying this type of stuff."
At least if they hadn't verified the info, he would have a reason to be so defensive right from the jump.
I agree. But the post is more or less a direct response to Klepek's twitter question, so if Patrick is going to discuss this story on the Bombcast it would be a real shame if he never saw it.
Polygon's Aussie correspondent, Tracey Lien, is one of the best gaming journalists out there there is.
If you dont like video games you probably shouldnt be in the "Games press" industry anyways since the pay isnt great, that much is obvious. But its one thing to like video games and do reviews. Its another thing entirely to do things like post videos of yourself runing around with the copy of a game doing circles, before it was released. That just makes me ignore your review.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I actually meant Vox as in Vox media as a whole. I'm not as big of a fan across the board with their hires over the last year or so.
Why are "journalists" copying and pasting news they get from an online forum in the first place? It's not NeoGAF's job to properly source and fact check stories you blatantly steal from it (often without acknowledgement). The fact that so much news on gaming sites uses NeoGAF as its sole source is damn sad and paints a lousy picture for the the gaming "journalist" profession.
Publish first and ask questions later is not how real journalism operates. But this is understandable for game "journalist" to operate, since they are little more than PR mouth pieces for publishers.
Publish first and ask questions later is not how real journalism operates. But this is understandable for game "journalist" to operate, since they are little more than PR mouth pieces for publishers.
You should probably stop being as lazy as McElroy and go back and read this thread. There has been no less than 4 really good reasons why he deserves all of the hatred he gets. He is a terrible journalist even for gaming standards which is fucking pathetic.
Why is GAF supposed to respect people who don't earn that respect? These are the same people who called us gamers 'entitled' and 'whiny' amongst other things before. These are the same people who won't hesitate to swipe one of the information from here and post it on their site without acknowledgment. And we're supposed to play nice to them? And besides, GAF is not an entity. It's made up of many different members and none of us is in control of what others are saying.
Oh.
AdventureRacing
Member
There are just so many hilarious parts to this story. Referring to GAF as some single minded entity out to cause problems for journalists (when really it's just a random collection of people with a similar hobby). Expecting this random collection of people to do your job for you is even more hilarious.
Then there is the complete lack of effort to fact check the stories he publishes and the complete refusal to accept blame for his actions when pointed out.
The embarrasing twitter comments and 'lol games journalism' stuff just adds to the hilarity.
You sure taught him a lesson about fact checking lol.
Then there is the complete lack of effort to fact check the stories he publishes and the complete refusal to accept blame for his actions when pointed out.
The embarrasing twitter comments and 'lol games journalism' stuff just adds to the hilarity.
You sure taught him a lesson about fact checking lol.
Is he a comedian or a journalist?
Bboy_Izilla
Banned
So we're still hating Justin McElroy, for...umm...what now?
Bboy_Izilla
Banned
Because needs to be one or the other right?
There's a 450 post thread that answers your question. You should check it out sometime.
...
Explain to me your logic here. I honestly have no idea what you're getting at.
I agree that MBMBAM is funny. But in case you haven't noticed, this has nothing to do with his journalist job. What he does in his free time has nothing to do with his credibilty.
And you edit is the stupidest this I've read in this thread...so grats I guess?
Read the thread.
Not until someone verifies it's authenticity.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
It's neogaf verified!