Hey, uh, has this ever happened? (McElroy: GAF has actively tried to fool the press)

Game-Biz said:
It was the one the night of MS' E3 conference. He showed up in the second half and was downing cans of beer, and randomly bringing up GAF throughout the show. I actually started to feel bad for him, cause you can tell his self-esteem has gotten really low about himself due to comments on GAF. At least under the influence of booze:p
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Now I have got something useful to do.
 
Game-Biz said:
It was the one the night of MS' E3 conference. He showed up in the second half and was downing cans of beer, and randomly bringing up GAF throughout the show. I actually started to feel bad for him, cause you can tell his self-esteem has gotten really low about himself due to comments on GAF. At least under the influence of booze:p
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That's a poor summary of what actually happened on the Bombcast that night. That's what the posters who Patcher was talking about like to think or tell themselves he sounded like.
 
NeoGAF is just an internet forum...why in the fuck would anything said here be taken at face value as a super credible news source? I mean yes I go here to find all my gaming related news/media, but when a fucking thread is made with the title "Rumor," and you get pissed to take it like it was fact, then you are a complete moron.

Guys like him are why I stopped wanting to go towards a career in game journalism. :/
 
Maybe he has been drunk for two days now. It is the weekend. He is going to wake up tomorrow and be all, "Oh shit." The 'deceivers' got me again. Maybe we should be a little less deceptive just this once. Nobody want to contribute to a guilt hangover.
 
GQman2121 said:
That's a poor summary of what actually happened on the Bombcast that night. That's what the posters who Patcher was talking about like to think or tell themselves he sounded like.
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He sounded mad salty. Can't blame the guy though, some people on GAF really cross the line when it comes to him. I like Pachter though.
 
bananas said:
gwUGi.png
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Oh he mad!

First of all, even if information gets leaked here by someone in the know, a real journalist would never use that information in a story. Not without first contacting that person and verifying to the best of their ability that the person is who they say they are and that the information is true.


Second of all, LOL games journalism. I consider the talking heads at ESPN and the cheerleader columns of local papers reporting on the local football team to be more serious actual journalist. Games journalist are barely concealed, poorly paid, games PR spokespeople. FFS people at least go all in and get paid like the people who work at actual PR firms do.
 
If I pulled shit like this at my job, I'd be gone in a second.

Serious lack of professionalism going on here, regardless of whether he's right or not. And it's pretty disappointing considering I was excited about Vox.
 
zlatko said:
NeoGAF is just an internet forum...why in the fuck would anything said here be taken at face value as a super credible news source? I mean yes I go here to find all my gaming related news/media, but when a fucking thread is made with the title "Rumor," and you get pissed to take it like it was fact, then you are a complete moron.

Guys like him are why I stopped wanting to go towards a career in game journalism. :/
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Hey, pal? Got some news for you. Based on this post alone, a career in games journalism was never an option for you.
 
This seems like a thread that some will look back on after being removed from it for a few days and think, "Why did I take this personally and let it get the better of me?"
 
Trvst said:
Writing blog posts about video games is an accomplishment?
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Being editor of a vidyagaemz website that continually made shit up is also an accomplishment. Coming to GAF to beg for said website to be unbanned is also an accomplishment, I guess.
 
Jerski said:
Hey, pal? Got some news for you. Based on this post alone, a career in games journalism was never an option for you.
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Wow, what's with the personal attack on the guy? It's an informal post on an informal message board. Maybe he, unlike the journalist being raked over the coals in this thread, would have had the better sense to not use a public forum associated with his professional work (his twitter count) to call out a community of hardcore gaming enthusiasts?
 
C4Lukins said:
Hey I am a NeoGAF member. Why did nobody let me in on the deception? I want to deceive just like the rest of you. Come on guys.
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You'll have to show us your Battle.net account first so we can have a look at your life's accomplishments. Then, if you are worthy enough, you get to join our secret plan to destroy games journalism.
 
creamhackered said:
Hey guys.

Tom Warren here (Senior Editor at The Verge). I posted this story at The Verge yesterday. I just wanted to clear up a few things and address some points I've seen posted elsewhere etc. The Xbox 720 leak was covered by The Verge at The Verge, not Polygon at The Verge. I know the temporary home can be confusing at times, but thought it was important to point that out.

As for how we check these types of stories. I have been reporting on Microsoft for around 12 years now. That's not to say I know everything about Microsoft and its processes, but I have a fairly good idea of what is and isn't an internal doc usually after the first few pages. This document in question is from August 2010, prior to iOS 4.2 (mentioned in the PPT notes) and when certain team members (mentioned in doc notes) were still at the company in engineering roles. The document references several employees by name and uses one of Microsoft's internal "CSG_Pres" PowerPoint templates (an early example of their Metro style PowerPoint templates that are used regularly internally now).

Couple this with the fact it aligns with other information I've seen about Nextbox over the past year, it aligned perfectly. The document also references Microsoft's SmartGlass technology (announced at E3). I went through a number of other ways to verify the information was as accurate as other stories we would report on - I'm not going to outline the exact processes because I like to keep those secret :)

We make every attempt to ensure this type of data is accurate. I ran a number of stories ahead of this year's E3, and they were all accurate:

Microsoft to bring full Internet Explorer browsing to Xbox 360 with Kinect controls
Exclusive: Kinect Play Fit to offer universal exercise tracking with 'Joule' heart rate monitor
Exclusive: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription
Exclusive: Microsoft to preview 'Woodstock' Xbox music service at E3

Hopefully this clears up any questions over how we vet this type of information. I don't typically report on Xbox or gaming news (its not my core knowledge) but I do enjoy reading Neogaf threads from time to time. You guys have an amazing community here so keep it up :)

Thanks,
Tom
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Good to hear! I was too broad in my dismissal of any reporting into the legitimacy of the Xbox 720 documents, but it also would have been great to read that logics breakdown in your story!
 
Hahaha what an awesomely pathetic fool :-D And the way he digs deeper and deeper :-D Can't stop laughing, it's not often that someone exposes such depths of idiocy, even on the Internet.
 
Jerski said:
Hey, pal? Got some news for you. Based on this post alone, a career in games journalism was never an option for you.
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Hey, bud? Guess what? I'm young, and still going through college. I have plenty left to learn in English classes and the journalism classes I would have had to take.

Oh and here's a secret I'll let you in on: My first language isn't English.

Plus, if this guy made it, then I think I would have had a GREAT chance.
 
Wario64 said:
He's taking things too personal. Well, so are people here. Anyway, he finally did something right and disconnected for the day.
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Agreed. He shouldn't have started this and Gaf shouldn't have had the meltdown I'm seeing here. Neither part was necessary. People shouldn't use Gaf as a fool-proof source, plain and simple. Journalists should be checking every source.

Glad to see Patrick had some sense in the argument at least, he (among a few others) is one of the people I respect most as a game journalist.
 
GQman2121 said:
That's a poor summary of what actually happened on the Bombcast that night. That's what the posters who Patcher was talking about like to think or tell themselves he sounded like.
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Lol I don't know, maybe im remembering it wrong, but I saw Patch down a beer for like 5 sec at one point and his demeanor was depressed and angry everytime he mentioned GAF, "if the guys on GAF are to be believed I'm a dip-shit no-nothing who doesn't know what he's talking about" -- then the giant bomb crew with the emotional support, "don't listen to those guys man..."

It wasn't a meltdown or anything, but amusing nonetheless.

edit: I actually like the guy. I agree he gets way too much hate for like nothing.
 
https://twitter.com/JustinMcElroy/status/214411561945669633

Looks like he's packed it up. Probably time we do the same.

This was some Ocean Marketting wwebsite level of fail on all accounts (myself included, but I have identified with this community for some time now, and its hard not to take commentary like that personally, especially when you're a little guy feeling thrown under the bus by a publicly known figure).

Justin, I know you're lurking this thread. Heal the rift, man. Have a problem with this community? That's okay, but don't air out your dirty laundry to the public at large. Humility will get you far.
 
I've noticed a trend that just when the initial furor over [insert issue] appears to start dying down one of the people will hop onto Twitter and inadvertently rile everyone up again by not knowing when to just stop posting stuff.
 
Mikor said:
Wow, what's with the personal attack on the guy? It's an informal post on an informal message board. Maybe he, unlike the journalist being raked over the coals in this thread, would have had the better sense to not use a public forum associated with his professional work (his twitter count) to call out a community of hardcore gaming enthusiasts?
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That's the problem here. He mentions GAF and every single member is up in arms. His points have merit; this has happened before. Maybe the manner in which he brought up his points was slightly crude, but I think this thread is a prime example of why exactly the gaming press is fed up with GAF. A good third of these posts are referencing his Skyrim video, which was obviously meant for humorous purposes, and linking it to corruption and collusion in the industry. Even his screencapped tweets seem to be misinterpreted as genuine, where I look at them and see sarcasm immediately. The gaming press industry relies almost entirely on personalities, one of which he certainly is. That's why I visit multiple publications, for different writers' voices, and listen to different podcasts for their personas.
 
Nirolak said:
Basically Justin's new site (Polygon/Vox Games) posted the 56 page "Microsoft" document, Patrick questioned the logic of doing this, and Justin complained at Patrick saying that journalists should stick together and not question each other because GAF does that enough already.
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WTF?! So, he's saying he should get a free pass from the brotherhood of journalists, no matter what he does?


Kazerei said:
For those who don't know who Justin McElroy is:

games-journalismaf8t.gif
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What a joke. Nothing could be more questionable and childish, than a journalist boasting about getting something before everyone else. I bet it didn't have any effect whatsoever on his review of Skyrim.


Jerski said:
That's the problem here. He mentions GAF and every single member is up in arms. His points have merit; this has happened before. Maybe the manner in which he brought up his points was slightly crude, but I think this thread is a prime example of why exactly the gaming press is fed up with GAF. A good third of these posts are referencing his Skyrim video, which was obviously meant for humorous purposes, and linking it to corruption and collusion in the industry. Even his screencapped tweets seem to be misinterpreted as genuine, where I look at them and see sarcasm immediately. The gaming press industry relies almost entirely on personalities, one of which he certainly is. That's why I visit multiple publications, for different writers' voices, and listen to different podcasts for their personas.
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Then perhaps they should stop using GAF as a source?
 
I don't get the outrage of the Skyrim thing.

Seems tongue-in-cheek to me. He's also a gamer who happens to be excited about upcoming releases. I know reviews are meant to retain this sense of objectivity but c'mon, seems like a bit of fun.

As I said earlier, I'm sure that excitement can also be replaced with disappointment should a game not deliver/entertain. It'd be pretty unfair on critics to presume that they have no personal excitement about new releases, they're human after all :P

A writer showing anticipation/positivity isn't new or unique to the games press. I don't think the guy should be chastised because he happened to show that in a fairly humorous way.
 
Jerski said:
That's the problem here. He mentions GAF and every single member is up in arms. His points have merit; this has happened before. Maybe the manner in which he brought up his points was slightly crude, but I think this thread is a prime example of why exactly the gaming press is fed up with GAF. A good third of these posts are referencing his Skyrim video, which was obviously meant for humorous purposes, and linking it to corruption and collusion in the industry. Even his screencapped tweets seem to be misinterpreted as genuine, where I look at them and see sarcasm immediately. The gaming press industry relies almost entirely on personalities, one of which he certainly is. That's why I visit multiple publications, for different writers' voices, and listen to different podcasts for their personas.
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What I think you're failing to take away from my statement that you quoted is that McElroy has to hold himself to a higher standard than the average anon gaffer. As others in the thread have stated, actions like the ones he took would in any other industry end up in, at the best case, a suspension, if not outright job terminations.

The Skyrim review video is being called out specifically because he was, to my recollection, the editor assigned to the review. The video was posted before the review was made public, and immediately discredited any objective evaluation of the game. This is, in fact, a perfect example of collusion in the industry.

I don't think anyone is disputing that his later tweets were sarcastic and meant to be funny, but that's kind of like making fun of the handicapped kid who falls out of his wheelchair. Poor form.
 
Sooooo
Someone posts a supposed leak a journalist take the bait and rush to use the thing to Gian some notorietà, Now the news is considerer dubio is and the fault is on gaf?
Lol, even the crappiest journalist would doublecheck before posting a leak taken from an unknown source...l
How low the crapjournalism has fallen, rite Mr. Whiner?
 
witchedwiz said:
Sooooo
Someone posts a supposed leak a journalist take the bait and rush to use the thing to Gian some notorietà, Now the news is considerer dubio is and the fault is on gaf?
Lol, even the crappiest journalist would doublecheck before posting a leak taken from an unknown source...l
How low the crapjournalism has fallen, rite Mr. Whiner?
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That's not what happened at all. You should read the thread and get up to date before making your post.
 
Jerski said:
That's the problem here. He mentions GAF and every single member is up in arms. His points have merit; this has happened before. Maybe the manner in which he brought up his points was slightly crude, but I think this thread is a prime example of why exactly the gaming press is fed up with GAF.
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I wonder how many order of magnitudes more clicks goes to neogaf.com than to the average gaming press site.
 
Mikor said:
What I think you're failing to take away from my statement that you quoted is that McElroy has to hold himself to a higher standard than the average anon gaffer. As others in the thread have stated, actions like the ones he took would in any other industry end up in, at the best case, a suspension, if not outright job terminations.

The Skyrim review video is being called out specifically because he was, to my recollection, the editor assigned to the review. The video was posted before the review was made public, and immediately discredited any objective evaluation of the game. This is, in fact, a perfect example of collusion in the industry.

I don't think anyone is disputing that his later tweets were sarcastic and meant to be funny, but that's kind of like making fun of the handicapped kid who falls out of his wheelchair. Poor form.
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My point here is that even without that video, he had been extremely transparent towards his love for Bethesda. I can name a dozen editors who, through podcasts or discussions, have outed themselves as unabashed fans of certain franchises.
 
Jerski said:
My point here is that even without that video, he had been extremely transparent towards his love for Bethesda. I can name a dozen editors who, through podcasts or discussions, have outed themselves as unabashed fans of certain franchises.
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I'm not certain how a dozen editors outing themselves as unabashed fans of franchises somehow discredits the point attempting to be made by the posting of the Skyrim video, which is the, as you put it, "corruption and collusion" of games journalism? Seems to me you're only backing that argument up further.
 
DennisK4 said:


I wonder how many order of magnitudes more clicks goes to neogaf.com than to the average gaming press site.
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I don't think that's a productive comparison. GAF and say, for the purposes of this discussion, Polygon, serve completely different purposes.
 
After that "What do you do that's so important" tweet he posted, I had half a mind to post what I do for a living to throw it in his face that some people on GAF contribute to society as much as he doesn't want to think so...but you know what? Not worth it.
 
Mikor said:
I'm not certain how a dozen editors outing themselves as unabashed fans of franchises somehow discredits the point attempting to be made by the posting of the Skyrim video, which is the, as you put it, "corruption and collusion" of games journalism? Seems to me you're only backing that argument up further.
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Collusion implies some form of cooperation from both parties. In other words, "You give this game an 8.5 or above, and we will compensate you in some way."
 
JohngPR said:
After that "What do you do that's so important" tweet he posted, I had half a mind to post what I do for a living to throw it in his face that some people on GAF contribute to society as much as he doesn't want to think so...but you know what? Not worth it.
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Way to take the high road, bro.
 
JohngPR said:
After that "What do you do that's so important" tweet he posted, I had half a mind to post what I do for a living to throw it in his face that some people on GAF contribute to society as much as he doesn't want to think so...but you know what? Not worth it.
Click to expand...

you gonna jeff bell him?
 
Mikor said:
I'm not certain how a dozen editors outing themselves as unabashed fans of franchises somehow discredits the point attempting to be made by the posting of the Skyrim video, which is the, as you put it, "corruption and collusion" of games journalism? Seems to me you're only backing that argument up further.
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I honestly don't think it's fair to hold it against a game reviewer for openly being a fan of a franchise. I'm not familiar with the source video for that .gif. Maybe he crossed a line, but I don't think the simple fact that a reviewer openly gets excited about certain games is a credibility destroyer. If they are open about it or not, they are human beings and gamers and they are going to become fans of certain franchises and developers. It's there job to look past that though.
 
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