Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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JaggedSac said:
Getting one of the Windows 8 Pro Surfaces? Or sticking to Windows 7?
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Oh I'm definitely getting a Windows 8 tablet. That was never a question. Whether or not it's the surface is purely a function of what the best tablet on the market around the time it launches. That's why my commentary on this subject is relatively neutral and objective. I don't have a dog in the fight. I'll own all of this shit, just as I do now (have Mac and Win laptops, Android, iOS tablets, Tablet PC and Dell desktop). If my commentary doesn't read like that right now, read it again when your boner goes down. lol

So yea, I'll most certainly be replacing my Win 7 TabletPC. It's served me very, very well (especially...but almost only OneNote in meetings/classes) and I'd like a new one with better battery life and lighter weight. I've slowed my use of it since picking up my Wacom Intuos4 and added it to my MBP/Dell desktop.

As I've said before, I hope it's not a jack of all trades and master of none...but we won't know until it's out and we can compare it to other devices on the market in its price range (whatever price that is).

Copernicus said:
The punchline was, "Yea the announcement is that nobody is going to buy this." He then went on to say it was probably gonna be a battery powered etch sketch.

Which I now realize is pretty clever since it's made of magnesium. lol
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wow. :-/

and yea, OEMs are fucked unless MS prices this as the "benchmark" design/product (read: high). Since I've taken a second look at competing products, they all either have:

1.) A decidedly lower resolution screen

2.) A heftier weight

3.) An Atom processor (lol!)

All the OEM's will have to step their game up, and they only have a few months to come up with something better. good luck with that. 1080p IPS display + i5 = shittin' on 'em.
 
funkystudent said:
So does this thing have a on screen keyboard?


Is it any good? I know they really wanted to push the cover/keyboard but I'm a little worried the on screen keyboard is really bad or something if they completely ignored it.
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Onscreen keyboards in widescreen tablets leave very little visible area for apps to run in. It sucks balls.
 
JaggedSac said:
The difference being here that app developers can develop Metro apps for productivity given that the apps will be available to all Windows 8 PC owners(so they will have kb/m). These Surface RT(~$500) owners with their little keyboards could definitely reap the benefit of that.
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Productivity apps that are just as viable on iPad and in many cases already exist, there is no arguing that the Pro is way more capable than iPad (at around 1000 it better be) but the RT and the iPad are on a very similar playing field with very similar capabilities, to claim RT somehow is more of a real computer would be absurd.
 
Tobor said:
There's only two ways they didn't.

1. The price on both units is higher than we think, giving OEM's room to breathe.

2. They aren't planning on producing these in massive numbers, but more like limited edition reference models.

That's it. If those don't happen, OEM's are hosed. Not that I care. If you want to make good software, you should make your own hardware.
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MS could also share designs and manufacturing processes. Maybe give some actual value for that $80 the OEMs are coughing up.
 
Zabka said:
Onscreen keyboards in widescreen tablets leave very little visible area for apps to run in. It sucks balls.
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its resizeable i believe, and there is a split keyboard option as well. (as well as a pen based input panel thingy)
 
funkystudent said:
So does this thing have a on screen keyboard?


Is it any good? I know they really wanted to push the cover/keyboard but I'm a little worried the on screen keyboard is really bad or something if they completely ignored it.
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Yeah it will, also I have a suspicion that the keyboards everyone is raving over won't be included in the tablet price (sold as an accessory like the smart cover).
 
Dreams-Visions said:
and yea, OEMs are fucked unless MS prices this as the "benchmark" design/product (read: high). Since I've taken a second look at competing products, they all either have:

1.) A decidedly lower resolution screen

2.) A heftier weight

3.) An Atom processor (lol!)

All the OEM's will have to step their game up, and they only have a few months to come up with something better. good luck with that.
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1366 x 768 is absolute minimum spec for every Windows 8 tablet.
 
east of eastside said:
If some one can explain how Microsoft didn't just fuck each one of its OEM (particularly Windows RT) partners, I will patiently listen.
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Who cares?

Do you really care about the OEMs, b/c I'm not sure we are talking about the same companies.

The same OEMs that install crapware on their systems and then want to charge you $40-50 to remove it?

The same OEMs that put stupid stickers all over the laptop, use shody parts and have some of the worst customer service?


They have f'd themselves a long time ago.
 
Kogepan said:
If it is 1000, or similiar to Ultrabook pricing, they are also cannibalizing ultrabook sales as well. Or maybe MS thinks people are willing to step up to 1000 for the slate experience.
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The ultrabook market is pretty small, even including the MBA compared to iPad though. The RT has the potential to take off at its likely price but the Pro is very much a niche device, for consumers especially. Likely enterprise as well,enterprise doesn't drop down for 1k laptops currently. They but cheap dells.

The market for computing devices that cost around $1000 is very very minor, GAF is the exception to the rule.
 
Windu said:
its resizeable i believe, and there is a split keyboard option as well. (as well as a pen based input panel thingy)
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just a note for those who haven't used a TabletPC: the pen based input works well. as long as your handwriting isn't chicken scratch, it'll get characters right.

still, it's not very practical. every time I used it, I preferred to switch back to keyboard mode to just type.


Cheebo said:
The ultrabook market is pretty small, even including the MBA compared to iPad though. The RT has the potential to take off at its likely price but the Pro is very much a niche device, for consumers especially. Likely enterprise as well,enterprise doesn't drop down for 1k laptops currently. They but cheap dells.

The market for computing devices that cost around $1000 is very very minor, GAF is the exception to the rule.
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good points.

for the RT, I wonder how much of Apple's market it will eat into. I'm thinking a lot of the market will come from hung-over Android users...
 
brotkasten said:
Are you suggesting that you know more about technology than Joshua Topolsky?
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Engadget? You're saying MS didn't moneyhat them?

All this coverage like MS somehow revolutionized the tablet is complete garbage. There were more innovative products at computex....such as new Ultrabooks featuring touch for Win8 metro apps. Why anyone would even bother with a Surface Pro compared to even the Acer ultrabook touch is beyond me. And yeh, i'don't need to write for engadget to have an opinion on tech products.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/3/3061903/acer-introduces-s7-touchscreen-windows-8-ultrabooks
 
brotkasten said:
1366 x 768 is absolute minimum spec for every Windows 8 tablet.
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I'm aware? My point was that the resolution is decidedly lower than the Pro Surface.


Jake Tower said:
Norman Chan from tested.com Microsoft Surface is more than just an IPad competitor
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why are people comparing the Surface PRO to the iPad?

even in the article, "for now, we'll shelve commenting on the RT..." Huh? Those are the competing devices.

The iPad is not a competitor to the Surface Pro. It's not in price or functionality. Nor is it supposed to be.



Kogepan said:
Engadget? You're saying MS didn't moneyhat them?

All this coverage like MS somehow revolutionized the tablet is complete garbage. There were more innovative products at computex....such as new Ultrabooks featuring touch for Win8 metro apps. Why anyone would even bother with a Surface Pro compared to even the Acer ultrabook touch is beyond me. And yeh, i'don't need to write for engadget to have an opinion on tech products.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/3/3061903/acer-introduces-s7-touchscreen-windows-8-ultrabooks
Click to expand...
that Acer is stupid-thin.

that said, there are advantages to convertible tablets.
 
Are Snapdragon S4 and OMAP5 powered tablets going to be the compelling reason to pass on Microsoft's Tegra 3+ tablet?

But next year they should all be A15 powered..

I just can't see this for the Windows RT partners.

Does MS do its own ultrabook after this? Kinda hoping they do, just to see how this all plays out.
 
Cheebo said:
Productivity apps that are just as viable on iPad and in many cases already exist, there is no arguing that the Pro is way more capable than iPad (at around 1000 it better be) but the RT and the iPad are on a very similar playing field with very similar capabilities, to claim RT somehow is more of a real computer would be absurd.
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Wasn't saying that RT was better than iPad. Just saying that since Metro apps also target desktop users, desktop type productivity apps could be more likely to be made by developers. Which is really where MS wants Windows RT to be heading anyway. Which is the whole purpose of their development of this little uncumbersome, detachable keyboard.

Yeah it will, also I have a suspicion that the keyboards everyone is raving over won't be included in the tablet price (sold as an accessory like the smart cover).
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Definitely, $75 - $100 most likely. Smart Cover is what $35?

Why anyone would even bother with a Surface Pro compared to even the Acer ultrabook touch is beyond me.
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Does the keyboard detach so you can use it like a tablet?
 
Dreams-Visions said:
good points
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It's a big thing why I have to go HUH? when people go on about its appeal for enterprise. I mean CIO's aren't going to be approving thousand dollar tablets for their IT budgets when even the most successful fortune 500 companies still only give employees cheap dell laptops.

Some on GAF are dreaming if they think ultrabook priced devices will take off in massive amounts, people don't spend that kind of cash in masse on computing devices. Both consumers and enterprise. There is a reason iPad sells like crazy and Mac's are a niche, and why the vast vast majority of Windows PC's are far closer to $500 than $1000.


Although I expect much of this craze for it on GAF will collapse once they are hit with the price tag that is around $999. The fact the tech press is all but ignoring the RT, which is the one that is consumer AND enterprise price friendly and focusing on the one that is destined to be a niche at best is baffling to me. Regular people and most corporations do not buy $1,000 computers.
 
east of eastside said:
Are Snapdragon S4 and OMAP5 powered tablets going to be the compelling reason to pass on Microsoft's Tegra 3+ tablet?

But next year they should all be A15 powered..

I just can't see this for the Windows RT partners.

Does MS do its own ultrabook after this? Kinda hoping they do, just to see how this all plays out.
Click to expand...

I believe microsoft is trying to get a few really strong SKUs under its belt to provide the hardware to push their software. The Xbox/Kinect is pretty much their first one, with Surface as their second. If they see the market then sure, but I think their focus is on growing the Surface into a strong product over the next few years.
 
Cheebo said:
It's a big thing why I have to go HUH? when people go on about its appeal for enterprise. I mean CIO's aren't going to be approving thousand dollar for their IT budgets when even the most successful fortune 500 companies still only give employees cheap dell laptops.

Some on GAF are dreaming if they think ultrabook priced devices will take off in massive amounts, people don't spend that kind of cash in masse on computing devices. Both consumers and enterprise. There is a reason iPad sells like crazy and Mac's are a niche, and why the vast vast majority of Windows PC's are far closer to $500 than $1000.


Although I expect much of this craze for it on GAF will collapse once they are hit with the price tag that around $999. The fact the tech press is all but ignoring the RT, which is the one that is consumer AND enterprise price friendly and focusing on the one that is destined to be a niche at best is baffling to me.
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I can't disagree with any of these points.

That said, I'll have me one of these niche Pro's :D
 
Cheebo said:
It's a big thing why I have to go HUH? when people go on about its appeal for enterprise. I mean CIO's aren't going to be approving thousand dollar for their IT budgets when even the most successful fortune 500 companies still only give employees cheap dell laptops.

Some on GAF are dreaming if they think ultrabook priced devices will take off in massive amounts, people don't spend that kind of cash in masse on computing devices. Both consumers and enterprise. There is a reason iPad sells like crazy and Mac's are a niche, and why the vast vast majority of Windows PC's are far closer to $500 than $1000.


Although I expect much of this craze for it on GAF will collapse once they are hit with the price tag that around $999. The fact the tech press is all but ignoring the RT, which is the one that is consumer AND enterprise price friendly and focusing on the one that is destined to be a niche at best is baffling to me. Regular people and most corporations do not buy $1,000 computers.
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Very, very true. The RT is far more interesting to me for all of the reasons you listed.
 
Cheebo said:
Has any computer device that costs around 1000 "taken off"? Since the RT is basically no different than iPad in terms of ability, the Pro is the one that fits the description. The 1K+ market for Windows PC's is an extreme niche, and we all know how still to this day how small the marketshare Macs have (all cost 1K and above).
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I'm talking about the core concept of single OS, single device to do whatever you want. This idea of needing both a tablet and a laptop is a short sighted future. There's no reason for it.

What works great with Windows 8 is Microsoft isn't the only manufacturer. Don't like the price point, don't like the feature set? Great, someone will probably make something that fits your wallet and your usage. As long as the core idea of if you need a tablet, here you go, and if you need more, here you go too with the same OS, and a unified way of accessing everything you could need. I think Windows 8 is rough around the edges on how you transition between the two use cases, but the core concept is sound and I think what should be the future. Why anyone would push for a two device future when it comes to your personal computer is beyond me.

I would think if Apple had made a way to make an iOS view in tablet mode with full OSX mode while docked and access to the same data when the iPad was unveiled originally, Apple fans would be all over that.
 
Kogepan said:
Engadget? You're saying MS didn't moneyhat them?

All this coverage like MS somehow revolutionized the tablet is complete garbage. There were more innovative products at computex....such as new Ultrabooks featuring touch for Win8 metro apps. Why anyone would even bother with a Surface Pro compared to even the Acer ultrabook touch is beyond me. And yeh, i'don't need to write for engadget to have an opinion on tech products.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/3/3061903/acer-introduces-s7-touchscreen-windows-8-ultrabooks
Click to expand...

Now you know how MS/Google fans feel with every Apple announcement
 
mcrKs.gif
 
Marty Chinn said:
I would think if Apple had made a way to make an iOS view in tablet mode with full OSX mode while docked and access to the same data when the iPad was unveiled originally, Apple fans would be all over that.
Click to expand...

But then it wouldn't have cost $499 which was a major part of its appeal and remains so. A $999 iPad even if its twice as capable and comparable in every way to the Surface Pro would have been a niche product at best, just like the Surface Pro will be. Nobody but a small enthusiast segment of the market puts that kind of cash down for gadgets like computers or tablets.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
why are people comparing the Surface PRO to the iPad?

even in the article, "for now, we'll shelve commenting on the RT..." Huh? Those are the competing devices.

The iPad is not a competitor to the Surface Pro. It's not in price or functionality. Nor is it supposed to be.
Click to expand...

Because the Ipad is the most well known tablet out now and even though Surface Pro is more expensive and has more functionality it's still a tablet and was first introduced as being a tablet.

There are a lot of people out there with a laptop and a tablet. Or atleast people who need both because they offer different experiences. Now you have both in one device which is cheaper then buying both. So it's a competitor for the Ipad in the sense of that I wouldn't need an Ipad and/or laptop if I owned a Surface Pro. And it would be more practical because I would only need to carry one device with me with the functionality of both.

Now that I think about it this thing would be great to take with me to college.
 
f0lken said:
I expected the "lulz M$ buying the press" around the 20 page, but somehow we made it till the 53!!!!
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Well, they did buy
some ad space on
the Verge.

Also, lets not forget that the positive editorial on the Verge is coming from the man, who said that using Windows would be like poison to him. And you guys are not suspicious?
 
i don't get all of these news sites suddenly turning around, we have known what Windows 8 would do for a year now. And we have known there would be Hybrid type devices at launch running intel, arm etc..
 
Windu said:
i don't get all of these news sites suddenly turning around, we have known what Windows 8 would do for a year now. And we have known there would be Hybrid type devices at launch.
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Yeah but I don't think everyone got the potential of it until now.

They also handled the keynote pretty well. It felt very much more like the way Apple presents their products. There wasn't a lot of tech talk but more about how perfectly designed the whole package is and their whole philosophy behind it and shit like that. And how you would want to hold the device and how it feels. They were selling a luxury car instead of tech imo.
 
Windu said:
i don't get all of these news sites suddenly turning around, we have known what Windows 8 would do for a year now. And we have known there would be Hybrid type devices at launch.
Click to expand...

The tech press is obsessed with covering new hardware. They tend to find anything software related extremely boring. A weird aspect of the "industry" but it's been that why for a while. It's a major reason Apple always got such good press, new pretty gadgets is what drives sites like this not capable OS's or interesting applications. Especially american (as in where the company is located, not where it is built) hardware, hardware shown off in Korea doesn't have the same interest to them.
 
Cheebo said:
But then it wouldn't have cost $499 which was a major part of its appeal and remains so. A $999 iPad even if its twice as capable and comparable in every way to the Surface Pro would have been a niche product at best, just like the Surface Pro will be. Nobody but a small enthusiast segment of the market puts that kind of cash down for gadgets like computers or tablets.
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Why do we assume it has to cost $999? I think that's a fallacy of the argument. It doesn't have to cost that much.
 
Windu said:
i don't get all of these news sites suddenly turning around, we have known what Windows 8 would do for a year now. And we have known there would be Hybrid type devices at launch running intel, arm etc..
Click to expand...

Look, it's simple. Just like the gaming press, tech bloggers write positive previews, when the publisher/company buys some ad space in return.
 
Marty Chinn said:
Why do we assume it has to cost $999? I think that's a fallacy of the argument. It doesn't have to cost that much.
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Well everyone is going by the fact that MS is saying the Pro is going to cost what the typical ultrabook costs, and the average entry level i5 ivy bridge ultrabook pricing is around $1000. If MS was going to shock people and undercut that by a lot they wouldn't have compared pricing to ultra books and they would have revealed it then and there.
 
Good Job Bob said:
Yeah, MS would never release a Windows product with major bugs like that. Oh wait.
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And this is different than any other company... How?

I could name more errors that have occurred on my iPhone and iPad in the last week alone than my windows 7 laptop and desktop in the last 2 years
 
brotkasten said:
Probably. I'm sure Joshua "Windows is like poison to me" Topolsky is genuinely hyped about the Surface.
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Take this for what it's worth, but I was on his flight from LA to NYC last night and I overheard him talking to someone about Surface and he seemed genuinely intrigued by it.
 
brotkasten said:
Probably. I'm sure Joshua "Windows is like poison to me" Topolsky is genuinely hyped about the Surface.

DEF8Q.png
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Sir, I refer you to The Verge's Ethics Statement:

http://www.theverge.com/ethics-statement

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Cheebo said:
Well everyone is going by the fact that MS is saying the Pro is going to cost what the typical ultrabook costs, and the average entry level i5 ivy bridge ultrabook pricing is around $1000. If MS was going to shock people and undercut that by a lot they wouldn't have compared pricing to ultra books and they would have revealed it then and there.

edit: Unless you mean a pro iPad, although that would be similar pricing as well.
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I meant the concept in general. Even if the Surface Pro has a MSRP of $999, there is nothing stopping a device that fits the bill coming at a much cheaper rate. We've got current Windows 7 tablets at $500 easily. There's no reason why it has to be a $1000 starting point. What about the iPad in itself makes it impossible in theory to run OSX on it?
 
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