Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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coldfoot said:
Having both on the same device is pointless, or at best, niche.
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Sorry but why is it pointless to have in both? There are some cases where touch is better and there is some cases where keyboard/mouse/touchpad is better. Even the iPad tried to replicate that with their keyboard support. Even Apple supported such a concept with their own keyboard. Plenty of people with iPads have bought a Bluetooth keyboard to go with it. So clearly, it's not pointless.
 
Argyle said:
This is nonsense. As I've pointed out multiple times, the Pro has a BIGGER battery than the 11" MBA (42W-h vs 35W-h). Add the weight of the physical keyboard case, and you're still way under iPad+MBA. Additionally, it's thinner and lighter, should have better battery life, has a touchscreen + pen input, and has a MUCH better screen than the MBA.
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You know the MBA is just an example right, you can pick any ultrabook with the same weight. It's not OS wars here.

You may have a bigger battery with the surface pro, but you'll be burning up that battery needlessly when using it as a tablet, whereas the iPad or RT or most other ARM tablets will sip power when using them as tablets.

Argyle said:
If the Surface Pro is "too small to be a usable laptop" then by that argument the MBA is also too small to be usable...
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10.6 with a separate keyboard is too small, 11.6 with an actual mechanical keyboard is borderline usable.
 
coldfoot said:
It's a compromise that's too heavy and thick for a tablet with miserable battery life, and it's too small to be a usable laptop for serious productivity. That's why it will sell only in niche numbers.

An ultrabook and a tablet (MBA or Ultrabook + iPad or RT) will ultimately weigh less than a Pro and all the accessories you will have to carry with it. It will also be far more usable as you'll get a lightweight tablet with great battery life when you need one, and a laptop of decent size and power when you don't.

2.38 lbs ultrabook + 1.44 lbs tablet = 3.82 lbs
2 lbs surface pro + 0.5 lbs usb keyboard + 0.2 lbs mouse + 1 lbs extra battery so you get the equivalent battery life as the combo above = 3.7 lbs
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I posted benchmarks for you. I can watch video according to anand for 6 hours on tablet. That is quite a long time. I can surf the web for 8 .

Your bragging about watching video on an ipad 2 for 13 hours. WTF am I going to have 13 hours to watch videos ? There wont be anytime where i will go more than 8 or so hours away from a plug . Even flying to another country the planes will have outlets that i can use.

I like how you don't add cases for the ultrabook or tablet but you do for the surfacepro. I also like how you add 1lbs for a battery. You think the battery on the MBA takes up almost half the weight of the MBA ? You think the battery in the ipad takes up more than 2/3rds the weigh of the ipad 3 ?
 
coldfoot said:
You know the MBA is just an example right, you can pick any ultrabook with the same weight. It's not OS wars here.

You may have a bigger battery with the surface pro, but you'll be burning up that battery needlessly when using it as a tablet, whereas the iPad or RT or most other ARM tablets will sip power when using them as tablets.
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What?

10.6 with a separate keyboard is too small, 11.6 with an actual mechanical keyboard is borderline usable.
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Ever actually use one?
 
coldfoot said:
How many units did the transformer sell?
What is the definition of niche?
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Sales of the Transformer have what to do with the usefulness of that functionality in general (also, it actually sold very well versus other full-size Android tabs)? And using sales it's numbers instead of the % of people that own it and use it in that manner tells you what exactly? Nothing.

There's a reason why most upcoming Win 8 ultrabooks have touchscreens.






I'm gonna repeat what I asked earlier ....





Can you be a little saltier and make your hyperbole a bit more shrill?

I'm curious. Do you actually think you're being subtle?
 
coldfoot said:
How many units did the transformer sell?
What is the definition of niche?
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I think you completely don't get the appeal of either Surface tablet.

This is how I see it:

The killer app for the Surface RT is MS Office. This is because getting work done on an iPad is a miserable, miserable experience. If I were going off to college today, there's no way my only computer could be an iPad, typing anything much longer than a tweet is going to be painful.

No matter what, even the touch keyboard is going to be a much better experience than a virtual keyboard. (Who wants to have half your screen taken up with a keyboard when you're trying to write a term paper?) iOS will never have cursor support so the trackpad is a differentiating feature (since I don't have to reach up and touch the screen to move the cursor, which can be a fiddly experience vs. moving the cursor with a trackpad)

This is why I think they will pack the keyboard case in with the Surface RT. It's to enable the killer app for the Surface.

So, maybe we'll see. Perhaps you still think MS Office is a niche product and no one needs simultaneous keyboard and touch interfaces. I think you might be surprised, though.
 
Raistlin said:
Sales of the Transformer have what to do with the usefulness of that functionality in general (also, it actually sold very well versus other full-size Android tabs)? And using sales it's numbers instead of the % of people that own it and use it in that manner tells you what exactly? Nothing.

There's a reason why most upcoming Win 8 ultrabooks have touchscreens.






I'm gonna repeat what I asked earlier ....





Can you be a little saltier and make your hyperbole a bit more shrill?

I'm curious. Do you actually think you're being subtle?
Click to expand...
Why so






Much





White space?
 
coldfoot said:
PCs that cost $1000 and up are niche.
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1) if you read the article the reviewer states 6 hours of battery life for video playback.


2) This is a computer+ a tablet. I know many busniess travelers that would love the surface pro . Its great for trips as its compact and is x86 so it runs all work related programs . It also has pen input which makes it ideal at meetings.

School districts will eat this up , its compatible with smart boards and with a pen input a teacher can take a picture of the students work and edit it right up on the board or bring up text books and under line and highlight whats important to students. Even be able to draw and do math problems in front of the students.


I personal can't wait to order them , my school district is ready to pull the trigger on 5 of them for testing whe nthey come out and we will order more if the teachers like them
 
lunarworks said:
In 2012 that should be punishable by lashing.
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uh no, it really shouldnt. Are you going to pay hundreds of thousands to completely redo web apps, with their accompanying backends and databases just so you dont have to use IE? And then on top of that spend 2 or 3 times as much time and money supporting said apps because now you have 2 or 3 different browsers to support? all of which seem to constantly want to upgrade and or change their html rendering?

OR better yet, going to find one specific vendor, in an already very specific, niche, market just because they support a different browser than IE? Especially when IE is on every computer we put out? No. That's asinine.
 
Argyle said:
I think you completely don't get the appeal of either Surface tablet.

This is how I see it:

The killer app for the Surface RT is MS Office. This is because getting work done on an iPad is a miserable, miserable experience. If I were going off to college today, there's no way my only computer could be an iPad, typing anything much longer than a tweet is going to be painful.

No matter what, even the touch keyboard is going to be a much better experience than a virtual keyboard. (Who wants to have half your screen taken up with a keyboard when you're trying to write a term paper?) iOS will never have cursor support so the trackpad is a differentiating feature (since I don't have to reach up and touch the screen to move the cursor, which can be a fiddly experience vs. moving the cursor with a trackpad)

This is why I think they will pack the keyboard case in with the Surface RT. It's to enable the killer app for the Surface.

So, maybe we'll see. Perhaps you still think MS Office is a niche product and no one needs simultaneous keyboard and touch interfaces. I think you might be surprised, though.
Click to expand...

No , he knows exactly the apeal , thats why he is trying so hard to troll it.

Its the same reason the usual suspect bloggers are trying so hard to bash it and cast doubt on it.
 
Argyle said:
I think you completely don't get the appeal of either Surface tablet.

This is how I see it:

The killer app for the Surface RT is MS Office. This is because getting work done on an iPad is a miserable, miserable experience. If I were going off to college today, there's no way my only computer could be an iPad, typing anything much longer than a tweet is going to be painful.

No matter what, even the touch keyboard is going to be a much better experience than a virtual keyboard. (Who wants to have half your screen taken up with a keyboard when you're trying to write a term paper?) iOS will never have cursor support so the trackpad is a differentiating feature (since I don't have to reach up and touch the screen to move the cursor, which can be a fiddly experience vs. moving the cursor with a trackpad)

This is why I think they will pack the keyboard case in with the Surface RT. It's to enable the killer app for the Surface.

So, maybe we'll see. Perhaps you still think MS Office is a niche product and no one needs simultaneous keyboard and touch interfaces. I think you might be surprised, though.
Click to expand...
You can use a keyboard with the iPad, they even used to sell an iPad-only keyboard.





They've since moved to encouraging people to just buy the wireless Apple keyboard.





I still think touch (and voice) make sense for markets like China where people are less used to romanized keyboards and they can just draw the characters out by hand (or speak them via dictation).
 
eastmen said:
i still watn to know who uses a device for 14 hours without setting foot near a power source
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To be fair, not in a row, but it's nice that I can use the iPad for a very long time before I ever need to hook it up to be charged. I'm talking several days if not a week or two. It's a drastic difference between my iPad and my Transformer which has a battery draining issue. So while the Transformer has damn good battery life, 9.5 alone, and over 16 while docked, it sucks how it's dead every few days if I don't charge it.
 
numble said:
You can use a keyboard with the iPad, they even used to sell an iPad-only keyboard.
Click to expand...

It's an afterthought though. Compare keyboard integration on the Transformer with the iPad, and it's leagues better on the Transformer. I'm sure it'll be even better in Windows 8 which is designed around both.
 
coldfoot said:
I will be using my iPad in that manner this saturday.
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Don't want to be rude but what will you be doing that you wont be near any power source for that long ?


Marty Chinn said:
To be fair, not in a row, but it's nice that I can use the iPad for a very long time before I ever need to hook it up to be charged. I'm talking several days if not a week or two. It's a drastic difference between my iPad and my Transformer which has a battery draining issue. So while the Transformer has damn good battery life, 9.5 alone, and over 16 while docked, it sucks how it's dead every few days if I don't charge it.
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I dunno , I have a power charger dock thingy for my touchpad and when i come back at night i just put it in the dock. So my tablet allways have a charge in my house and is never dead....


Even if i go camping i'm near a power source (my friggen car)
 
eastmen said:
i still watn to know who uses a device for 14 hours without setting foot near a power source
Click to expand...
Hey, I actually do so. I take trans-Pacific flights several times a year, they go for about 13-15 hours, depending on the destination.





The iPad actually lasts a lot longer in Airplane mode without its wifi antennas on.





I've completed the entire Skygambler Air Supremacy game on my latest flight, and still had lots of battery to watch episodes of The Wired. And then make myself fall asleep listening to podcasts or audio editions of The Economist. On another flight I played through Puzzle Agent, which took several hours, on top of watching movies.
 
eastmen said:
Don't want to be rude but what will you be doing that you wont be near any power source for that long ?
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Travelling on a multitude of conveyances where a power source is not readily accessible.
Believe it or not, they have free wifi but no outlets on the plane part of the journey.
Granted, it's not something I do often, but it sure comes in handy.

eastmen said:
and these planes have no outlets ? I take a 3 hour flight to florida and all the planes have outlets in all levels of the cabin
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Well I'm not a baller like you so I can't afford first class in transatlantic flights.
 
eastmen said:
I dunno , I have a power charger dock thingy for my touchpad and when i come back at night i just put it in the dock. So my tablet allways have a charge in my house and is never dead....


Even if i go camping i'm near a power source (my friggen car)
Click to expand...

My Transformer is constantly dead and I find it quite annoying. Sometimes I'll come home from work and I'll leave it in my bag and by then I'll be using my laptop instead. So I won't use it for a couple days and it'll be dead. So even though the battery drain is a problem, it sort of illustrates how a significantly shorter battery life could be annoying with how often you need to recharge it. I haven't charged the iPad in over a week and it still says it has 43% battery left. I love how my Nook Touch can go for well over a month before I ever have to charge that thing. It's really more about accessibility and not needing to tether it all the time. Granted the Touchpad is usually charged because of the great touchstone cradle they made for it, but it also helps that it was designed one well from that. It really just depends on what the device usage is to how often I want to constantly charge it. Heck, my Vita and 3DS are constantly dead because I'll go for a week without playing them.
 
eastmen said:
and these planes have no outlets ? I take a 3 hour flight to florida and all the planes have outlets in all levels of the cabin
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They don't always have outlets. Even when I was flying on a nice airline (in coach though).










I guess you can go in the bathroom and charge in an outlet there, but that's not optimal.
 
Oh, I've also been on cheapo Chinese trains for 25 hours (two times), 19 hours and 30+ hours (once each). No access to outlets either.








Except for one of those lines, where you needed to grab the couple of outlets per car and guard it furiously, not daring to leave to go to the bathroom or go to your seat, because someone will take it immediately.
 
Marty Chinn said:
My Transformer is constantly dead and I find it quite annoying. Sometimes I'll come home from work and I'll leave it in my bag and by then I'll be using my laptop instead. So I won't use it for a couple days and it'll be dead. So even though the battery drain is a problem, it sort of illustrates how a significantly shorter battery life could be annoying with how often you need to recharge it. I haven't charged the iPad in over a week and it still says it has 43% battery left. I love how my Nook Touch can go for well over a month before I ever have to charge that thing. It's really more about accessibility and not needing to tether it all the time. Granted the Touchpad is usually charged because of the great touchstone cradle they made for it, but it also helps that it was designed one well from that. It really just depends on what the device usage is to how often I want to constantly charge it. Heck, my Vita and 3DS are constantly dead because I'll go for a week without playing them.
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Well you should learn to turn the devices off when they aren't being used.


numble said:
They don't always have outlets. Even when I was flying on a nice airline (in coach though).



I guess you can go in the bathroom and charge in an outlet there, but that's not optimal.
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weird. I allways fly coach and they have had outlets on the last 5 flights i took this year.
 
eastmen said:
Well you should learn to turn the devices off when they aren't being used.




weird. I allways fly coach and they have had outlets on the last 5 flights i took this year.
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Which airlines? I used to fly across the US constantly for about 7 years, and only Virgin America had outlets.







Nevermind budget international airlines.






In any case, it's much more convenient to not have to worry about finding an outlet.
 
Gary Whitta said:
$999 is steep?
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Quite steep:

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