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[Fixed2BeBroken]

I... don't really agree. Just because you see a few women that manage to have guys in the office wrapped around their finger, it doesn't mean that the others don't see her as a bimbo who fucked her way to the top. That kind of stigma doesn't even exist for men. Its just one of many too.

this isn't 10 years ago. the game has changed for women in corporate america. It's not just a "few women." I see a shitload of women in my company. hell I, work for one of the largest companies in america.

and being an attractive white female in corporate america is really advantageous these days.

That stigma you speak of, may exist in some realms, but it's not as bad of a stigma as it use to be.

 

[Death Dealer]

(seriously, man? you're not serious, are you?)

It's self evident to me. And there is social science backing up everything I said except the last line, an opinion concerning which is more advantageous. I have both privileges, and I'd rather be great looking and non-white, than white and below average to average looking. Any day of the week.

 

[CountAntonius]

It's like telling all Americans "It's worse in (insert third world country here) you have it good!" What effect does it have on people? Do they care? Do they all of a sudden no longer have their own worries and struggles because some other person has more? I just think it's stupid as hell and I'm not white.

 

[Esch]

I called this shit years ago!

Spoiler

man my flow kinda sucked back then

my man you are the truth

i dont care if you were on some noob shit, its still piff

 

[Flo_Evans]

I laughed.

No one is coming to make sure you get looked at funny for your tipping habits. You don't have to worry about your property value dropping as soon as you move into your home or anything either.

The big point here is that you can acknowledge you get to play with a good hand most of the time. People don't want take your cards - they just want to make sure that they get to play with a good hand too at some point.

I'm (not) genuinely shocked that people get so defensive about the whole thing though.


Not really. Because people don't take you serious in an intelligent discussion if you look too good and if one of the good old boys decides to grab your ass and you choose to report it, they'll just say you wanted it because you're such a tease.

I'm just trying to explain why people get defensive. People with money, power, and status generally don't like to give it up. "privilege" is to me a loaded term usually associated with royalty.

Yeah some people are delusional thinking that everyone in America is born with equal opportunities. Clearly some have much more privilege than others. But you can really only play the cards you are delt.

 

[DY_nasty]

this isn't 10 years ago. the game has changed for women in corporate america. It's not just a "few women." I see a shitload of women in my company. hell I, work for one of the largest companies in america.

and being an attractive white female in corporate america is really advantageous these days.

That stigma you speak of, may exist in some realms, but it's not as bad of a stigma as it use to be.

If you work for one of the biggest, then the reforms would be felt there much sooner then it would be 3 levels down. Surely you'd agree with that, right?

It's self evident to me. And there is social science backing up everything I said except the last line, an opinion concerning which is more advantageous. I have both privileges, and I'd rather be great looking and non-white, than white and below average to average looking. Any day of the week.

I'd love to see your links on studies regarding good looking people vs race

Popping back in... no one doubts that race is a factor in what hand life deals you. The only point being debated is that it is less of a factor than things like money, and thus we question the point of making race the focus in a statement about class in America.

I saw you respond to another poster making the same point above, and implying that the poster thinks race plays no part in it. The poster simply said that money overshadowed race. There's no need to extrapolate from that something as silly as "race has no bearing".

Just adding this with the hope that the strawmen won't get out of hand like they always do on GAF. You can have a useful discussion if people don't pretend that it's "if you don't like this PSA then you think racism doesn't exist."

Have fun!

If all of your posts in the thread lined up, then I'd be all "sure, that makes sense! " but they kinda... don't.

 

[Wallach]

It's like telling all Americans "It's worse in (insert third world country here) you have it good!" What effect does it have on people? Do they care?

Often times, no, they actually don't. A big part of the core of "white privilege" is the privilege of not needing to know about the problems of minorities. It affects their lives very, very rarely; identifying that as a privilege is as easy as asking yourself if minorities need to know about the problems of white people when living in this society.

 

[LaserBuddha]

If you work for one of the biggest, then the reforms would be felt there much sooner then it would be 3 levels down. Surely you'd agree with that, right?

I'd love to see your links on studies regarding good looking people vs race

If all of your posts in the thread lined up, then I'd be all "sure, that makes sense! " but they kinda... don't.

Well I don't know where you got the wrong impression, but I'll have to leave you with it, because this thread has a dark future.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

If you work for one of the biggest, then the reforms would be felt there much sooner then it would be 3 levels down. Surely you'd agree with that, right?

what does that have to do with what im talking about? I'm drawing from my experiences from one of the largest companies in america. which is all that I can do, and it has revelance because it is one of the largest companies.

what are you drawing from?

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm just trying to explain why people get defensive. People with money, power, and status generally don't like to give it up. "privilege" is to me a loaded term usually associated with royalty.

Yeah some people are delusional thinking that everyone in America is born with equal opportunities. Clearly some have much more privilege than others. But you can really only play the cards you are delt.

I don't even think its a power, money, status thing when its people posting on message boards. It's not the head of a law firm being called out here in particular. Its generally the demograph of straight white young males here.

But the "privilege" thing goes directly back to the link in the OP and Mumei's post not even 50 posts below that.

 

[SuperBonk]

I'm just trying to explain why people get defensive. People with money, power, and status generally don't like to give it up. "privilege" is to me a loaded term usually associated with royalty.

Yeah some people are delusional thinking that everyone in America is born with equal opportunities. Clearly some have much more privilege than others. But you can really only play the cards you are delt.

I don't think most people will infer the PSA to mean they want to take your privilege away. Clearly the goal is to have everyone enjoy the same benefits.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I'm white but I have no sense of pride in it, nor do I personally feel guilty about it.

I worry moreso about my crippling social awkwardness.

 

[DY_nasty]

what does that have to do with what im talking about? I'm drawing from my experiences from one of the largest companies in america. which is all that I can do, and it has revelance because it is one of the largest companies.

what are you drawing from?

You're drawing from one place?

Well shit, I thought you were speaking for progress as a whole. From female sergeant majors taping down their breasts, to journalists getting screwed into where/what they can cover, to college students getting looked over OR put in a corner and forced to play the part of a pretty little idiot, to "he couldn't have done that to you as you say, 'he's such a great guy' and everyone speaks well of him"... I've seen enough to feel that attractive straight white women don't necessarily have it easy.

If we're going just off of what one another has seen that is.

But again, if you're at one of America's largest companies then obviously your view is going to be different from up top.

 

[Devolution]

this isn't 10 years ago. the game has changed for women in corporate america. It's not just a "few women." I see a shitload of women in my company. hell I, work for one of the largest companies in america.

and being an attractive white female in corporate america is really advantageous these days.

That stigma you speak of, may exist in some realms, but it's not as bad of a stigma as it use to be.

I guess sexual harassment in the workplace and glass ceilings just fucking evaporated in the last 10 years.

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

You're missing the point....

I'm saying that the one who is not isolating the variables is you. You took a look at median salary or wealth and used that to dismiss white privilege. That doesn't make sense because that doesn't account for anything else besides race. Ie, that was IGNORING all other variables.

Likewise, that incarceration rate page you just gave me does the exact same thing.

So what kind of example then would show that whites are privileged over all other minorities when it comes to jail? You mentioned that it was incarceration that you were talking about when it comes to privilege.

Show me a study that isolates race instead of dismissing other variables. Otherwise, you can’t back up your claim that whites are privileged either.

 

[Death Dealer]

I'd love to see your links on studies regarding good looking people vs race

I said that part of my post was an opinion.

 

[Nesotenso]

Privilege exists because of a number of factors and yes your race can be advantageous at times. No has to feel guilty about it but being cognizant of it and acknowledging it can only make one a better and smarter person.

On the other hand a person's success, accomplishments and social standing shouldn't always be just boiled down to his "privilege". That's how I feel anyway.

If the video PSA makes people pause and think then it's a good thing. No need to feel guilty. You don't get to choose the family you are born into.

 

[Aristion]

No, this strange dichotomy isn't true. You can have underprivileged people in contrast to normally-privileged people. Which is what we seem to have, unless you think the proper situation is that everyone in the country should have it a bit worse than whites have it currently.

The "over-privileged" people I suppose would be the super-rich, or famous. On that note, money has a lot more to do with opportunity than race does, as well as fame, and (for the most part) attractiveness. Poor/middle class people of all races have a lot more in common with each other than poor/middle class white people have in common with rich white people. But anyway, all of those things are bigger privilege factors than race and yet this divisive and non-productive motto is what we're going with for some reason.

Privilege doesn't simply exist in class, but also privilege of opportunity, which extends to academic and other contexts that aren't about wealth/material accumulation. The video I linked to provides several contexts in which many are indeed over-privileged, and in order for there to be a disproportionate amount of underprivileged African Americans, there must by necessity have been a historical group of over-privileged persons who have left for their descendants to inherit their privileges.


To be white and privileged isn't bad, but one must own up to privilege and use it in order to reach out to communities living in the denial of it.

Also, there's a difference between being responsible with privilege and being guilty of privilege. I am not saying that the latter is true of whites. But desire the former to be the case.

 

[DY_nasty]

I said that part of my post was an opinion.

Okay.

:|

 

[Makoto]

It's like telling all Americans "It's worse in (insert third world country here) you have it good!" What effect does it have on people? Do they care? Do they all of a sudden no longer have their own worries and struggles because some other person has more? I just think it's stupid as hell and I'm not white.

Why do worries and struggles have to be washed away after being reminded of the truth? As it was mentioned earlier:

Acknowledging white privilege does not equal accepting white guilt.

Just as easily, the quoted can be modified to say, "Acknowledging American privilege does not equal accepting American guilt." It's the simple acknowledgement that the US affords its citizens a level of legal rights and protection that other countries aren't able to afford their citizens.

What's stupid is the "us vs. them" defensive mentality that is practically the equivalent of saying, "All this talk of American privilege is just foreigners and traitors trying to guilt me and threaten my freedoms!"

Edit: That post about the mention of privilege as something that devalues someone still bothers me. If you were a businessman who sat down to chat with representatives of a foreign business in a country that doesn't speak English and they say, "Yeah, we've had trouble expanding globally because it's hard to find excellent English speakers in our country. You Americans have it so good, you learn English, you have the best schools, you're all ready for the global market from start. That's a privilege we'd like!" Are you seriously going to get pissed off and tell the guy to stop devaluing your hard work or are you going to look at the bigger picture and acknowledge that yes, being an American afforded you the capabilities of better surviving the marketplace than someone from a developing country?

 

[cutmeamango]

People assume I can't play basketball. Do you know hard it is to live like that?

When I was 8, I wished I was black because I wanted to be better at soccer.

 

[weepy]

I have to admit that PSA was embarrassing to watch. I mean, I get the intention of it but it's just...idk.

 

[zoku88]

So what kind of example then would show that whites are privileged over all other minorities when it comes to jail? You mentioned that it was incarceration that you were talking about when it comes to privilege.

Show me a study that isolates race instead of dismissing other variables. Otherwise, you can’t back up your claim that whites are privileged either.

....

1) If you go back a few pages, it's pretty clear that I never asserted this "that whites are privileged over all other minorities when it comes to jail"

I did name certain minorities: black and hispanic, specifically when it comes to jail/police harassment.

I never actually asserting that Asians also go to jail more often than they should (I wouldn't know.) I merely said that both of your counter examples actually don't work.

As for my evidence, I again invoke random frisking and random traffic stops. The isolating agent being the police themselves, since they have little knowledge of the people they are stopping besides what they can physically see... For the actual statistics regarding those "random" events, you can look back a few pages.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I don't think most people will infer the PSA to mean they want to take your privilege away. Clearly the goal is to have everyone enjoy the same benefits.

If everyone has the same benefits, isn't that the same thing?

I guess we are going with poker...

White guy gets dealt a full house
Minority has a pair of 2's

Would the white guy want to reshuffle? No, he wants to keep the status quo. Is it fair that the white guy gets a full house twice as often? No not really. He is not dealing the cards himself, he might not even be aware of his luck. But tell him the game is rigged and we need to trash the deck and reshuffle and there will be resistance.

Again I am not trying to deny it or say that it shouldn't change, I just don't know how you can equalize things without the people who previosly enjoyed an unfair advantage feel like they are getting screwed.

 

[Cbajd5]

I'm white.

I don't have any power over the police or banks. I don't give people jobs. I don't decide who gets into what schools or any financial aid they may get. I have absolutely no power over anyone or any of these statistics.

But apparently just by existing I'm taking away opportunities from others, making other people's lives worse, and I am hated for it by someone out there.

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

I don't know those people.
I am not those people.
I can't do anything about those people.

I didn't put anyone into whatever situation they may be in.

I just don't want to be hated for something I can't change without killing myself. Even doing that would help a few others at best, and I can't guarantee they wouldn't be white.

I really can't think of a better way to say all of this.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I guess sexual harassment in the workplace and glass ceilings just fucking evaporated in the last 10 years.

It's nowhere near as bad as it use to be. seriously. check the stats.

You're drawing from one place?

Well shit, I thought you were speaking for progress as a whole. From female sergeant majors taping down their breasts, to journalists getting screwed into where/what they can cover, to college students getting looked over OR put in a corner and forced to play the part of a pretty little idiot, to "he couldn't have done that to you as you say, 'he's such a great guy' and everyone speaks well of him"... I've seen enough to feel that attractive straight white women don't necessarily have it easy.

If we're going just off of what one another has seen that is.

But again, if you're at one of America's largest companies then obviously your view is going to be different from up top.

WELL, technically, ALL i can do is draw upon my own experiences which are legit. I can't speak for all of america, CAUSE I didn't experience all of america in this past year to speak on it. But if you check statistics...women are on the rise in corporate america, it's just a fact.

secondly, are you referring to women as a whole or attractive white women? because those are 2 different subjects and 2 tottally different situations. I am just talking about attractive white women and how they tend to have it alot easier than EVERYONE these days.

you say you have seen enough of blah blah blah....so what experiences are you drawing from?

 

[zoku88]

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

Well, whether you have control over society or not doesn't take away the fact that you benefit from it. But anyway, when it comes to this, it's just semantics.

But the point is, no one is blaming you for this.

WELL, technically, ALL i can do is draw upon my own experiences which are legit. I can't speak for all of america, CAUSE I didn't experience all of america in this past year to speak on it. But if you check statistics...women are on the rise in corporate america, it's just a fact.

secondly, are you referring to women as a whole or attractive white women? because those are 2 different subjects and 2 tottally different situations. I am just talking about attractive white women and how they tend to have it alot easier than EVERYONE these days.

That's not technically all you can do. You could look at statistics, for example.

In the whole grand scale, personal experience doesn't mean anything. Personally, I've had no trouble with the police, despite the fact that I'm black. But I know that a lot of black people do, through research.

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm white.

I don't have any power over the police or banks. I don't give people jobs. I don't decide who gets into what schools or any financial aid they may get. I have absolutely no power over anyone or any of these statistics.

But apparently just by existing I'm taking away opportunities from others, making other people's lives worse, and I am hated for it by someone out there.

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

I don't know those people.
I am not those people.
I can't do anything about those people.

I didn't put anyone into whatever situation they may be in.

I just don't want to be hated for something I can't change without killing myself. Even doing that would help a few others at best, and I can't guarantee they wouldn't be white.

I really can't think of a better way to say all of this.

Geez dude

no one here "hates you"

and lol @ bolded

obviously not every white person is the 1% and responsible for worldwide baby cancer

this entire thing just went way past you

It's nowhere near as bad as it use to be. seriously. check the stats.





WELL, technically, ALL i can do is draw upon my own experiences which are legit. I can't speak for all of america, CAUSE I didn't experience all of america in this past year to speak on it. But if you check statistics...women are on the rise in corporate america, it's just a fact.

secondly, are you referring to women as a whole or attractive white women? because those are 2 different subjects and 2 tottally different situations. I am just talking about attractive white women and how they tend to have it alot easier than EVERYONE these days.

you say you have seen enough of blah blah blah....so what experiences are you drawing from?

Yes women are on the rise.

Compared to where they were? Yeah. And with that rise, there have been all kinds of hitches along the way. You can't just "not see them" and say that they aren't there though.

And I thought you said white women in the first post that I quoted you. Doesn't really change my argument as it stands though.

 

[DarkFlow]

Louis CK agrees.

The funny thing is, he's Mexican. His Father is from Mexico and he lived in Mexico city till he was like 7.

 

[CountAntonius]

Why do worries and struggles have to be washed away after being reminded of the truth? As it was mentioned earlier:

Just as easily, the quoted can be modified to say, "Acknowledging American privilege does not equal accepting American guilt." It's the simple acknowledgement that the US affords its citizens a level of legal rights and protection that other countries aren't able to afford their citizens.

What's stupid is the "us vs. them" defensive mentality that is practically the equivalent of saying, "All this talk of American privilege is just foreigners and traitors trying to guilt me and threaten my freedoms!"

I'm not seeing this thread from the perspective of a white man feeling guilt. I am seeing this thread from the perspective of a Mexican who dislikes this approach to equality. I think a lot of people harbor resentments towards more privileged people and I don't feel the need to go to my white or rich friends and remind them how much better they have it because that does absolutely nothing to improve my situation or life. That's simply how I feel.

 

[Esch]

I'm white.

I don't have any power over the police or banks. I don't give people jobs. I don't decide who gets into what schools or any financial aid they may get. I have absolutely no power over anyone or any of these statistics.

But apparently just by existing I'm taking away opportunities from others, making other people's lives worse, and I am hated for it by someone out there.

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

I don't know those people.
I am not those people.
I can't do anything about those people.

I didn't put anyone into whatever situation they may be in.

I just don't want to be hated for something I can't change without killing myself. Even doing that would help a few others at best, and I can't guarantee they wouldn't be white.

I really can't think of a better way to say all of this.

my white guilt cup runneth over


its okay dude i dont think you're hitler or anything, in fact you seem to be a rather nice fellow if i do say so myself.

 

[Yasae]

Telling someone in horrible circumstances that someone else probably has it worse, and that they are "lucky" in some way... how doesn't that fit the definition of devaluing their suffering?

Telling someone who has achieved a lot that it wasn't just their determination and talent, that they always had an unfair advantage... how doesn't that fit the definition of devaluing their success?

It doesn't really have that effect if they own up to their advantages. Poor, single-family household or not, I wouldn't ever say I didn't receive significant advantages compared to some or even most. If that devalues my struggle, so be it - though never to the point of it being insignificant.

It's someone thinking their hard work alone has gotten them to where they are.

 

[Future]

I'm white.

I don't have any power over the police or banks. I don't give people jobs. I don't decide who gets into what schools or any financial aid they may get. I have absolutely no power over anyone or any of these statistics.

But apparently just by existing I'm taking away opportunities from others, making other people's lives worse, and I am hated for it by someone out there.

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

I don't know those people.
I am not those people.
I can't do anything about those people.

I didn't put anyone into whatever situation they may be in.

I just don't want to be hated for something I can't change without killing myself. Even doing that would help a few others at best, and I can't guarantee they wouldn't be white.

I really can't think of a better way to say all of this.

All of that doesn't change the fact that being white puts life in easy mode when compared to any other race in the same situation. Not an excuse for any hate, because no one should hate you for this. But people may envy you, which may turn into jealousy hate for some.

White privilege doesn't guarantee life to be easy by any means. A white person can still struggle like anyone else. But that doesn't mean it ain't a privilege to be white

 

[Nesotenso]

I'm white.

I don't have any power over the police or banks. I don't give people jobs. I don't decide who gets into what schools or any financial aid they may get. I have absolutely no power over anyone or any of these statistics.

But apparently just by existing I'm taking away opportunities from others, making other people's lives worse, and I am hated for it by someone out there.

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

I don't know those people.
I am not those people.
I can't do anything about those people.

I didn't put anyone into whatever situation they may be in.

I just don't want to be hated for something I can't change without killing myself. Even doing that would help a few others at best, and I can't guarantee they wouldn't be white.

I really can't think of a better way to say all of this.

The point of the video isn't about hating yourself because you are white but drawing attention to the fact that your race might give certain advantages depending upon the society you inhabit. No one should belittle your success or hate you because you are white.

 

[Cbajd5]

Geez dude

no one here "hates you"

and lol @ bolded

obviously not every white person is the 1% and responsible for worldwide baby cancer

this entire thing just went way past you

I'm not saying someone here hates me. I'm saying someone out there does.

Someone who didn't make it into college may hate me because I'm in college.

Someone who doesn't have a job might hate me for the minimum wage part time job I got recently, my first.

Hate doesn't have to be rational.

my white guilt cup runneth over


its okay dude i dont think you're hitler or anything, in fact you seem to be a rather nice fellow if i do say so myself.

It's not white guilt, it's just guilt over anything I may be depriving others. Like if I didn't seem nice someone else slightly less nice would seem just as nice as I seem.

My beliefs about myself don't have to be rational either.

 

[Wallach]

I'm not seeing this thread from the perspective of a white man feeling guilt. I am seeing this thread from the perspective of a Mexican who dislikes this approach to equality. I think a lot of people harbor resentments towards more privileged people and I don't feel the need to go to my white or rich friends and remind them how much better they have it because that does absolutely nothing to improve my situation or life. That's simply how I feel.

The sentiment is spread this way because the appeal has to be made to the majority. You can't make this appeal to the government really because right now the paradigm of inequality serves them more than anyone else. They serve the majority and the privilege they've created for the majority does not require them to know about issues that minorities have. If the people that have that privilege do not join in asking for equality in the systems provided through our society it will not budge. It requires their participation, and thus their understanding.

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm not saying someone here hates me. I'm saying someone out there does.

Someone who didn't make it into college may hate me because I'm in college.

Someone who doesn't have a job might hate me for the minimum wage part time job I got recently, my first.

Hate doesn't have to be rational.

Someone else please take this...

But if you are going to single out one race for being privileged, you have to include all other races as well. Why are only whites privileged, when Asians seem to fare equally if not better at the stuff you mention.

You haven’t shown that whites are privileged, the claim you tried to make in this thread.

Asians? In America?

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

....

1) If you go back a few pages, it's pretty clear that I never asserted this "that whites are privileged over all other minorities when it comes to jail"

I did name certain minorities: black and hispanic, specifically when it comes to jail/police harassment.

I never actually asserting that Asians also go to jail more often than they should (I wouldn't know.) I merely said that both of your counter examples actually don't work.

As for my evidence, I again invoke random frisking and random traffic stops. The isolating agent being the police themselves, since they have little knowledge of the people they are stopping besides what they can physically see... For the actual statistics regarding those "random" events, you can look back a few pages.

But if you are going to single out one race for being privileged, you have to include all other races as well. Why are only whites privileged, when Asians seem to fare equally if not better at the stuff you mention.

You haven’t shown that whites are privileged, the claim you tried to make in this thread.

 

[Aristion]

I'm white.

I don't have any power over the police or banks. I don't give people jobs. I don't decide who gets into what schools or any financial aid they may get. I have absolutely no power over anyone or any of these statistics.

But apparently just by existing I'm taking away opportunities from others, making other people's lives worse, and I am hated for it by someone out there.

Is it really white privilege? Isn't it just the bias of those people in power?

I don't know those people.
I am not those people.
I can't do anything about those people.

I didn't put anyone into whatever situation they may be in.

I just don't want to be hated for something I can't change without killing myself. Even doing that would help a few others at best, and I can't guarantee they wouldn't be white.

I really can't think of a better way to say all of this.

Nobody hates you dude. We just want you to acknowledge your privileged status in society.

The more people acknowledge it, the easier it becomes for minorities to achieve the same status.

 

[Esch]

I'm not saying someone here hates me. I'm saying someone out there does.

Someone who didn't make it into college may hate me because I'm in college.

Someone who doesn't have a job might hate me for the minimum wage part time job I got recently, my first.

Hate doesn't have to be rational.

Who fucking cares. Sorry, I don't mean that to be harsh, but really.

It has nothing to do with random minorities hating you.

 

[squidyj]

Okay, let's start by saying that I recognize that life is different for minorities, and that they are disadvantaged across the whole. The prison system is a joke, opportunities for economic advancement are woeful at best, perceptions are horrible, etc. So many forces conspire in an overarching manner to stymie the efforts of minorities.

That said I see a campaign like this and I want to turn it off. I hear the words being spoken but there's also a subtext I hear in those words that seems to be implying an exhaustive quality to these properites, you're white, you're male, you're straight, and that's all you are. While I recognize that where I am in the world is in a considerable part due to the privilege that has passed through my family, I didn't really care or think about it a couple years ago when I was seriously depressed. When I was sleeping all day and never leaving the house, when I was contemplating suicide, it didn't seem particularly important to me. When I see these ads and monologues and blog posts, there is absolutely an unspoken narrative that for the same reason a white person would have fewer problems the problems they have aren't important, they're not worth anything, they don't matter. There is the impression provided within this particular narrative, that it doesn't matter what your situation is because somewhere out there there's a black person/gay person/woman, who has it that much worse, so what the fuck are you complaining about anyway? So mental illness, whatever, fuck it, you're white, male, straight, you'll be fine. I don't think that's the conscious intent behind anyone who wants to talk about white privilege but at the same time It's something that makes that line of dialogue very alienating. You can go ahead and call it my problem and there's something wrong with me that I'm thinking that way but it doesn't seem like I'm alone in getting that sense out of things and unless you actually want to force a conflict and therein provide fuel for that line of thinking brute force repetition of the message is not something that I think is going to be very effective.

I'll add that this isn't an attitude I carry over to any of my achievements, If and when I do well I'm usually the first to admit where I have been helped, where I have been privileged.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Nobody hates you dude. We just want you to acknowledge your privileged status in society.

The more people acknowledge it, the easier it becomes for minorities to achieve the same status.

I don't really think so.

If we somehow got every white person to acknowledge they are better off than minorities, what mechanism would make them strive for equality, giving away their built in advantage?

 

[zoku88]

But if you are going to single out one race for being privileged, you have to include all other races as well.Why are only whites privileged, when Asians seem to fare equally if not better at the stuff you mention.

You haven’t shown that whites are privileged, the claim you tried to make in this thread.

Actually, I don't? Not for every aspect of being privileged, anyway. It's not like it's all or nothing... that's ridiculous.

I have shown that whites are privileged, in relation blacks and hispanics.

For asking about asians in particular, you'll have to ask someone else. I don't know (and I've previously admitted to such.)

In relation to this:

Why are only whites privileged, when Asians seem to fare equally if not better at the stuff you mention.

As I've said before, there are two problems with this:

1) You're only looking at the end result and not accounting for other factors when you say this and
2) You're saying that only the things I've specifically mentioned are a part of white privilege.

I don't really think so.

If we somehow got every white person to acknowledge they are better off than minorities, what mechanism would make them strive for equality, giving away their built in advantage?

Hopefully empathy.

 

[DY_nasty]

Okay, let's start by saying that I recognize that life is different for minorities, and that they are disadvantaged across the whole. The prison system is a joke, opportunities for economic advancement are woeful at best, perceptions are horrible, etc. So many forces conspire in an overarching manner to stymie the efforts of minorities.

That said I see a campaign like this and I want to turn it off. I hear the words being spoken but there's also a subtext I hear in those words that seems to be implying an exhaustive quality to these properites, you're white, you're male, you're straight, and that's all you are. While I recognize that where I am in the world is in a considerable part due to the privilege that has passed through my family, I didn't really care or think about it a couple years ago when I was seriously depressed. When I was sleeping all day and never leaving the house, when I was contemplating suicide, it didn't seem particularly important to me. When I see these ads and monologues and blog posts, there is absolutely an unspoken narrative that for the same reason a white person would have fewer problems the problems they have aren't important, they're not worth anything, they don't matter. There is the impression provided within this particular narrative, that it doesn't matter what your situation is because somewhere out there there's a black person/gay person/woman, who has it that much worse, so what the fuck are you complaining about anyway? So mental illness, whatever, fuck it, you're white, male, straight, you'll be fine. I don't think that's the conscious intent behind anyone who wants to talk about white privilege but at the same time It's something that makes that line of dialogue very alienating. You can go ahead and call it my problem and there's something wrong with me that I'm thinking that way but it doesn't seem like I'm alone in getting that sense out of things and unless you actually want to force a conflict and therein provide fuel for that line of thinking brute force repetition of the message is not something that I think is going to be very effective.

I'll add that this isn't an attitude I carry over to any of my achievements, If and when I do well I'm usually the first to admit where I have been helped, where I have been privileged.

And in that same exact situation plenty don't even get to have that problem. The idea of mental illness doesn't even exist in many places. Just being able to acknowledge such a thing is a privilege in itself.

Really not trying to be a dick or anything, but after doing some community service and social work in some really fucked up spots... you get to see how shitty things can get. Sleeping all day and never leaving the house is just so many levels above what a lot of people get to even consider.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Hopefully empathy.

Well good luck with that. Have you been following the healthcare debate? Empathy seems to be in short supply in large segments of the population.

 

[SuperBonk]

If everyone has the same benefits, isn't that the same thing?

I guess we are going with poker...

White guy gets dealt a full house
Minority has a pair of 2's

Would the white guy want to reshuffle? No, he wants to keep the status quo. Is it fair that the white guy gets a full house twice as often? No not really. He is not dealing the cards himself, he might not even be aware of his luck. But tell him the game is rigged and we need to trash the deck and reshuffle and there will be resistance.

Again I am not trying to deny it or say that it shouldn't change, I just don't know how you can equalize things without the people who previosly enjoyed an unfair advantage feel like they are getting screwed.

Real life isn't a poker game nor is it always a zero-sum game. If black people are pulled over less by police, it doesn't mean white people need to be pulled over more.

 

[Cbajd5]

Who fucking cares. Sorry, I don't mean that to be harsh, but really.

It has nothing to do with random minorities hating you.

I'm don't mean just random minorities, I mean anyone. The topic may have caused me type something that made it seem that way.

 

[Wallach]

I don't really think so.

If we somehow got every white person to acknowledge they are better off than minorities, what mechanism would make them strive for equality, giving away their built in advantage?

That is more complicated, especially when you consider that a lot of people don't quite grasp the consequences of how the current society works. Still, once you get over the hurdle of showing people how many of these things don't actually serve them in the long run and in fact have done great damage to us as a society, they usually want to see it changed. If not for them but for their kids' chance at having a decent life, white or not.

 

[CrushDance]

Again I am not trying to deny it or say that it shouldn't change, I just don't know how you can equalize things without the people who previosly enjoyed an unfair advantage feel like they are getting screwed.

?_? Wow.

What is this fear?

Nobody is going to force "white people" to work labour camps, build railroads, dig tunnels, pick cotton, be human guinea pigs, fight in wars and recieve no commendation, be lynched for cimes they didn't do, recieve harsher sentence, be obstructed from mass media, painted as imbeciles and rapists, painted as savages, painted as thieves and drunks, told to back to the country their ancestors came from, denied jobs, denied education, used as sexual slaves, viewed as sub-human, castrated, relegated to only supporting roles in media, automatically assumed to be stupid, told to leave other peoples daughters or sons alone, watched extra carefully by police, asked if having the White House isn't good enough for them, asked for their papers, told that any wrong that befalls them is their fault, told that they can't sympathize with them because of their colour, angry or surprised that they're white instead of black, told that they "act white"...

Some people are not seeing the point here. White people do have advantages, staggeringly so. That does not mean that white people are angels or that they don't suffer too! It is not the same thing. Everyone suffers. Some have suffered worse than others and this is simply bringing light to that, trying to balance the scales so to speak.

Are we all going to sit here and pretend for a second that North America specifically in this case was born out of peace and love? That whole swaths of people weren't butchered and disenfranchised still to this day? No. You are not responsible for what happened in the past. It is not your fault. But just like how most black people do not view themselves as criminals or sub-human yet are treated that way BECAUSE of their skin. You too are treated a certain way BECAUSE of your skin. Neither things are fair. That is the point.

Nobody should be against pushing for equality for all people. We are not so far removed from the violence of our "past". Perhaps that is what is scaring people. Because almost every-time their is a discussion about ethnicity, white people tend to get very afraid of some upcoming "revenge" from minorities. And just how would that work? Are the Latino's, Blacks and Asians simply going to wait till your numbers are low and annihilate you? Don't be silly.

A lot of people these days have people of various ethnicities in their family or are close friends with them. Why would some random dude or lady wake up one night and slaughter their husband or wife? THERE IS NO AWAKENING OF THE MINORITIES COMING TO GET YOU. All that is happening is the non-stop march of progress to a world where hopefully everyone can be given the same chances.

 

[DY_nasty]

?_? Wow.

What is this fear?

Nobody is going to force "white people" to work labour camps, build railroads, dig tunnels, pick cotton, be human guinea pigs, fight in wars and recieve no commendation, be lynched for cimes they didn't do, recieve harsher sentence, be obstructed from mass media, painted as imbeciles and rapists, painted as savages, painted as thieves and drunks, told to back to the country their ancestors came from, denied jobs, denied education, used as sexual slaves, viewed as sub-human, castrated, relegated to only supporting roles in media, automatically assumed to be stupid, told to leave other peoples daughters or sons alone, watched extra carefully by police, asked if having the White House isn't good enough for them, asked for their papers, told that any wrong that befalls them is their fault, told that they can't sympathize with them because of their colour, angry or surprised that they're white instead of black, told that they "act white"...

Some people are not seeing the point here. White people do have advantages, staggeringly so. That does not mean that white people are angels or that they don't suffer too! It is not the same thing. Everyone suffers. Some have suffered worse than others and this is simply bringing light to that, trying to balance the scales so to speak.

Are we all going to sit here and pretend for a second that North America specifically in this case was born out of peace and love? That whole swaths of people weren't butchered and disenfranchised still to this day? No. You are not responsible for what happened in the past. It is not your fault. But just like how most black people do not view themselves as criminals or sub-human yet are treated that way BECAUSE of their skin. You too are treated a certain way BECAUSE of your skin. Neither things are fair. That is the point.

Nobody should be against pushing for equality for all people. We are not so far removed from the violence of our "past". Perhaps that is what is scaring people. Because almost every-time their is a discussion about ethnicity, white people tend to get very afraid of some upcoming "revenge" from minorities. And just how would that work? Are the Latino's, Blacks and Asians simply going to wait till your numbers are low and annihilate you? Don't be silly.

A lot of people these days have people of various ethnicities in their family or are close friends with them. Why would some random dude or lady wake up one night and slaughter their husband or wife? THERE IS NO AWAKENING OF THE MINORITIES COMING TO GET YOU. All that is happening is the non-stop march of progress to a world where hopefully everyone can be given the same chances.

Well said.

Spoiler

Operation Caliphate is still in effect.