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Being white is a privilege, says this PSA.
- Thread starter ChiTownBuffalo
- Start date
- Status
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Don't abuse it.
That's because we don't follow through.
Look, I can't un-fuck society. I'd like to be able to, but some shit is beyond even the powers of the Great and Powerful GungHo. What I can do, however, is not be a prick and tell people when I see them being pricks that they're being pricks and why what they're doing is prickish. I can vote for people who aren't pricks. I can buy from merchants who aren't pricks or who don't donate to pricks (check my card statements... not a charge to Chick-fil-a in years!). I can donate to anti-prick causes. Now, you can holler at me and say it's not good enough, and I'm sorry if it's not, but that's what I can do. Like you say, not everyone can be activists. You don't want me stumping for you, because I'll eventually lose my shit on some white supremacist and then you'll have gotten no where. Trust me, you want me in a support role.
lol promised myself I would not post anymore in here but this is great. Especially the last sentence. Sorry bro I need you as recon if we are going to clear the mission. Hope you are a BF3 guy : )
Really not sure if this is a good idea responding to you, and I don't mean anything by that. Just because of our post history towards each other.
But that fucking piss's me off reading that.
And for what it is worth, sorry you have to go through shit like that man. Truly am, so many idiots out there watch to many movies thinking the big scary black man going to rob them or some shit. I'd be pissed as fuck too =/
Edited out my previous response to you, I don't need to put my personal bullshit in this thread. Sorry for that, not apologizing because I am scared of mods. It's an apology to you, that sounds kind of soft but w/e.
theignoramus
Member
true that. Ive been eyeballed and stared down in so many places of business. Ive had restaurant staff stare my ass down like I didnt belong.
A gym I worked at, I had people looking at me with total suspicion whenever I'd come out of the storage closet, they assumed I was up to no good. pissed me the fuck off.
A clean cut white guy doesnt have to put up with that shit.
theignoramus
Member
thanks. sorry for being a dick in that other thread.
water under the bridge.
Devolution
Member
Nah that's good enough for me actually. Not supporting racist fuckheads is a step in the right direction for sure.
Ya again sorry man, very hard for me to relate to what it feels like. I need to try and see where other people are coming from before I get on my soap box. My friend tries to explain but as much as he tries, it just doesn't register. I can try to do the best I can imagining, but until you live through something there is no way to really feel what it's like.
chronos4590
Member
I actually agree that this is true and I'm so sick of seeing it too. As if you have to be nice or good other wise you get in trouble or something. I'm not giving anyone the extra treatment or extra nice because of skin color and you're sadly a fool if you do so.
What I'd really like to see in order to at least help the case for my fellow minorties is to educate everyone not just white people about White privilege. Everyone need to see exactly where we are in society and acknowledge that racism in a systematic sense exist from the most hatefully expressive ways to the most innate[could be the wrong term] ways. We're[ The US] is a country that is too afraid of talking about race and our past because of things like white guilt, but that's a horrible reason to avoid talking about it. Things will only get worse and nothing will progress if we neglect the issue of race. Education seems to be the best interest at this time and people need to stop being afraid of Race. Also we need to make clear that having privilege is not a negative trait for a person exactly. This privilege is unfair because it limits the opportunities and worsens the experience of minorities when it never needed to be worse in the first place, and not necessarily makes anyone a bad person just because they've been put in a higher point in society.
chronos4590
Member
I personally can't stand the term Reverse Racism but....
[kinda do think the term works in this comic though]
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
I personally can't stand the term Reverse Racism but....[kinda do think the term works in this comic though]
Beautiful.
cutmeamango
Banned
That list made me dumber.
I should watch that PSA more times.
I should watch that PSA more times.
CrushDance
Banned
Look guys. The biggest thing that minoirties have to face isn't the money as the end and be all. The biggest hurdle for a lot of minorities is simply feeling like they belong and are a part of the society. This isn't even stricly speaking about America, Black, White, Gay, Straight. The simple matter is that everyone wants to belong, to feel like their neighbour cares in the least. But the truth is that a lot of people who are "pure minorities" and I say that to mean not a white woman, a white gay, in a majority white country or a black woman, a black gay, in a majority black country, etc is the feeling that they actually matter.
It is true that everyone has their struggles and that all people have hardships. But it is also true that there is a huge relief off of ones mind when they don't feel like they have to act a certain way, dress a certain way, talk a certain way to even be considered as having a ounce of social equality. If there was social equality, everything else would come with that obviously. But there isn't.
Some people keep bringing up Asians. Okay. Tell me with a straight face how many Asian you can name off the top of your head from history books, how many Asian you learned about in school, how many asian movie stars are in leading roles of big films? How many Asian women are fetished? How many black men are fetished? "Asian fever", "jungle fever". And these are terms used everyday and somehow okay in 2012?
There is a big difference between being successful and being accepted. It is no wonder that a lot fo minority parents tell their children that "You should work hard. But never believe that you're one of them." That is incredibly disturbing and should not be told to any child in 2012 America. But it is a truth.
You will never have to worry about asking some girl or guy out and being rejected for being white 99% of the time.
You will never have to worry about socring high enough on a test just to prove that you're smart too.
You will never have to worry about being able "kick back", smoke pot, play video-games, etc and STILL be seen as a respectful young man or woman.
You will never be uncomfortable in your own shoes for being simply a colour. We can't change what we are. I can't tell if someone is gay off the bat usually, I can't tell if someone is depressed off the bat usually, I can't tell if someone is tormented inside usually. But I can tell what colour someone is all the time. It is a big flag that cannot be ignored.
Minorities have so much mental and emotional pressure that many of you clearly find it hard to believe. The mental scarring I personally have is something that I will always struggle with and has hampered a large portion of my life. How do you think anyone can flourish and grow in a society where they are often viewed as "Auto black auto bad". "Auto Asian, Auto smart". None of my minority friends are "free" like my white friends are. We all know that we have certain roles to play and are always going to be viewed a certain way thanks to how society portrays us. Yet my white friends are so diverse that when I first meet them, I often wonder what kind of person they are and don't even take their colour into account. THAT is white privilege. You are never being judged by other white people or the vast majority...of minorities as A or B. You are seen as fluid and an individual. That fluidity grants you so much interest that it cannot be understated. People want to get to know you. You will make friends easier, you will find dates easier, you will move easier with less barriers and questions. Whereas with a minority, you are either A or B and most people will not even bother to get to know you. Because in their minds, they have already placed you into a category of either a threatening thug, or a hopeless nerd.
Yes we all place each other into categories and judge on first look. BUT. But, the colour a person is, is a major category that is seen first and everything following that taken as secondary. And if you doubt any of this, go read up on the studies done about all sorts of areas of life. Ethnic sounding names DO get less chances given to them for jobs. Ethnic sounding names DO get less chances given to them in the law. And ethnic people in general get much, much less chances given to them in even dating.
Nobody should be saying "so what?" Because there are people who complain that certain groups only ever stick to themselves in small pockets of such and such country. But fail to realize that it is because they see and hear what goes around them. And so out of fear, they run away. Instead of being a melting pot, people are running away from one another. None of us should want that. It is disturbing to see that and it does not mean that multiculturalism has failed or that we simply hate each other. Rather it means that we are still judging by association and hating way too much on one other.
It is true that everyone has their struggles and that all people have hardships. But it is also true that there is a huge relief off of ones mind when they don't feel like they have to act a certain way, dress a certain way, talk a certain way to even be considered as having a ounce of social equality. If there was social equality, everything else would come with that obviously. But there isn't.
Some people keep bringing up Asians. Okay. Tell me with a straight face how many Asian you can name off the top of your head from history books, how many Asian you learned about in school, how many asian movie stars are in leading roles of big films? How many Asian women are fetished? How many black men are fetished? "Asian fever", "jungle fever". And these are terms used everyday and somehow okay in 2012?
There is a big difference between being successful and being accepted. It is no wonder that a lot fo minority parents tell their children that "You should work hard. But never believe that you're one of them." That is incredibly disturbing and should not be told to any child in 2012 America. But it is a truth.
You will never have to worry about asking some girl or guy out and being rejected for being white 99% of the time.
You will never have to worry about socring high enough on a test just to prove that you're smart too.
You will never have to worry about being able "kick back", smoke pot, play video-games, etc and STILL be seen as a respectful young man or woman.
You will never be uncomfortable in your own shoes for being simply a colour. We can't change what we are. I can't tell if someone is gay off the bat usually, I can't tell if someone is depressed off the bat usually, I can't tell if someone is tormented inside usually. But I can tell what colour someone is all the time. It is a big flag that cannot be ignored.
Minorities have so much mental and emotional pressure that many of you clearly find it hard to believe. The mental scarring I personally have is something that I will always struggle with and has hampered a large portion of my life. How do you think anyone can flourish and grow in a society where they are often viewed as "Auto black auto bad". "Auto Asian, Auto smart". None of my minority friends are "free" like my white friends are. We all know that we have certain roles to play and are always going to be viewed a certain way thanks to how society portrays us. Yet my white friends are so diverse that when I first meet them, I often wonder what kind of person they are and don't even take their colour into account. THAT is white privilege. You are never being judged by other white people or the vast majority...of minorities as A or B. You are seen as fluid and an individual. That fluidity grants you so much interest that it cannot be understated. People want to get to know you. You will make friends easier, you will find dates easier, you will move easier with less barriers and questions. Whereas with a minority, you are either A or B and most people will not even bother to get to know you. Because in their minds, they have already placed you into a category of either a threatening thug, or a hopeless nerd.
Yes we all place each other into categories and judge on first look. BUT. But, the colour a person is, is a major category that is seen first and everything following that taken as secondary. And if you doubt any of this, go read up on the studies done about all sorts of areas of life. Ethnic sounding names DO get less chances given to them for jobs. Ethnic sounding names DO get less chances given to them in the law. And ethnic people in general get much, much less chances given to them in even dating.
Nobody should be saying "so what?" Because there are people who complain that certain groups only ever stick to themselves in small pockets of such and such country. But fail to realize that it is because they see and hear what goes around them. And so out of fear, they run away. Instead of being a melting pot, people are running away from one another. None of us should want that. It is disturbing to see that and it does not mean that multiculturalism has failed or that we simply hate each other. Rather it means that we are still judging by association and hating way too much on one other.
ThLunarian
Member
Great post, which seemed to go largely unacknowledged. I think it really highlights why so many people are getting upset about it.
I personally don't think anyone should have any inherent advantages. I've always known that some unfortunately have it easier than others, myself included, and yet this PSA STILL made me defensive as a gut reaction.
So what IS the point of this PSA? If it's not to instill guilt, then...? Is it to get the privileged to speak up for the underprivileged? If that's the point, it's woefully ineffective in that goal.
I'm going to try to make a point here that's complex, and I don't know how well I'm going to express it, so bear with me.
I think it's fair to say that there's a hierarchy of privilege in this country and in the world. I don't know exactly what it is, but here's an approximation (forgive me if I got the positioning wrong, but for my point, the positioning isn't the most important part):
White and Rich ----> Black and Rich ----> White and middle class ---> White and poor -----> Black and middle class ----> Black and poor
So, the people in the White and Poor category are being told that they're privileged, despite that there are clearly people who have more advantages than them. This makes them confused and angry.
If you don't understand why it makes them confused and angry, imagine someone going to a black poor person (certainly among the least privileged in the USA) and saying to them "Compared to people who live in North Korea, you are privileged, and ought to acknowledge that, and maybe even do something about it."
Is that statement wrong? No, but I think it does devalue the hardships of that black, poor person, and I would certainly understand those people reflexively getting angry.
It's been said earlier in the thread, but the goal of raising awareness about white privilege is empathy.
People keep returning to the "But I'm white and work hard!" defense, but the point of privilege is not that you don't have to work to get things, it's that deeply ingrained aspects of the American power structure passively and actively benefit some groups of people over others.
A Straight white male can be anything he wants, in terms of personal brand/identity, without running the risk of his behaviors being extrapolated onto his entire race as "typical behaviors." Minorities, women, and LGBT people constantly have to be conscious of how their behavior will reflect upon the group (some of those groups to a greater degree than others).
People keep returning to the "But I'm white and work hard!" defense, but the point of privilege is not that you don't have to work to get things, it's that deeply ingrained aspects of the American power structure passively and actively benefit some groups of people over others.
A Straight white male can be anything he wants, in terms of personal brand/identity, without running the risk of his behaviors being extrapolated onto his entire race as "typical behaviors." Minorities, women, and LGBT people constantly have to be conscious of how their behavior will reflect upon the group (some of those groups to a greater degree than others).
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah nothing says empathy like stereotyping an entire disparate group of people - from the poorest of the poor barely surviving in Appalachia, to walmart greeters, to disabled veterans, to uninsured dying from curable diseases, to school teachers, to wage slaves, to CEO's, to senators - as being unfairly privelidged all in the name of breaking down stereotypes.
I just don't see how you can think that a kid born into a house with more people than rooms and without indoor plumbing is privelidged.
captmorgan
Banned
I personally can't stand the term Reverse Racism but....[kinda do think the term works in this comic though]
Technically in the last panel he`s right, he did get himself up there by climbing up.
Have the other guy find someone to climb up
Roger Danish
Member
Probably because you weren't paying attention. "Privelidge" is not a damn "on-off" switch. One can be privileged in some areas and underprivileged in others. You can be more privileged than some segments of the population and less privileged than others.
Did you even watch the video? They didn't say, "as a white person, I'm guaranteed a six figure salary." They were talking about real, tangible ways in which black people face discrimination that is unique to their skin color. The fact that you and others fall back to this ridiculous straw-man argument is more reflective of your own preexisting notions of race--your own reflexive defensiveness--than of any serious failings by the makers of the PSA.
Deified Data
Banned
White privelage is a thing.
I've never experienced it, personally. Given my job and area of study, I'd likely find a lot more doors opening for me as a black woman than a white man.
Librarian and library science respectively, BTW.
I've never experienced it, personally. Given my job and area of study, I'd likely find a lot more doors opening for me as a black woman than a white man.
Librarian and library science respectively, BTW.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
Since european americans are soon to loose their status as majority in the states.
I think its only fair that they started their own interest groups. I mean clearly no one is looking out for them.
Think if you said the same thing about jewish americans or asian american.
I think its only fair that they started their own interest groups. I mean clearly no one is looking out for them.
Think if you said the same thing about jewish americans or asian american.
Really? Do you live in a house or an apartment? What's your neighborhood like? If it's an apartment building what does your building's racial make up look like?
There was a great documentary from 1991 called True Colors - Racial Discrimination in Everyday Life. It's not that long, about 20 minutes. I think it's worth a watch if you really think you absolutely haven't benefited from white privilege in your life. Part 1 Part 2
captmcblack
Member
The point being made by this PSA is true and should be conveyed...and nothing inherently wrong or offensive is being said by this PSA.
But no one is going to take it as what it is, because that message cuts the majority down.
I wish there was a way for people to discuss this in the real and honest way it deserves to be discussed...but that's going to require people to change in this country, and we're not ready for that collectively yet.
But no one is going to take it as what it is, because that message cuts the majority down.
I wish there was a way for people to discuss this in the real and honest way it deserves to be discussed...but that's going to require people to change in this country, and we're not ready for that collectively yet.
Bay Maximus
Banned
I've always wanted to live on the moon.
Deified Data
Banned
I still live with my parents who are broke because I'm broke. They just recently bought a house for the first time and I live with them while paying rent. I've lived in apartments my entire life - sometimes in good neighborhoods, sometimes in bad ones. I've been pulled over once in my life. Cop gave me a ticket - no whiteboy secret handshake or anything, I just got a ticket.
But yeah, I really don't think I've benefited from it. I realize that probably sounds woefully naive to you, but it's the truth as far as I can tell. It's not really something I argue about.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Wow, completely nails the feelings and really, what can happen in a given situation.
Very good post.
Technically in the last panel he`s right, he did get himself up there by climbing up.
Have the other guy find someone to climb up
.....
Nice post, CrushDance.
Deified Data
Banned
His meaning is that people consistently use one another to climb the socio-economic ladder, which is true. We all use someone, whether we're aware of it or not.
Something this absolutely FUCKING DUMB doesn't need nuance.
kame-sennin
Member
The structural inequalities that exist in our country do have solutions. These problems can be solved, but every time any effort is made to do so, people challenge the very ideas that these inequalities even exist. In "1963, before there was a Civil Rights Act to outlaw even the most blatant racial discrimination, sixty percent of whites said that blacks were treated equally in their communities. In 1962, only eight years after the Brown decision outlawed segregation in the nations schools (but well before schools had moved to integrate or equalize their classrooms), a stunning eighty-four percent of whites were convinced that blacks had equal educational opportunity." These problems can't be fixed if some people refuse to acknowledge their existence. That's the point of the PSA.
Did you fear for your life? Many black people do. Being pulled over by the police is a stressful situation for anyone. But blacks are aware of the empirical and anecdotal evidence that shows they have much more to fear during the average traffic stop than whites. Research shows that the stress caused by racism actually shortens the lives of black people when other factors are controlled for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PqLiGIXjjE&feature=player_embedded
Being spared from this life-shortening threat and not even being aware that you received this benefit, that's white privilege.
^^ and all of the above would have a harder life if they were black. Did you read the OP and/or do you not know any poor black people?
Right, except that it is weird to encourage black people to "find their own leapfrog", even as a joke.
Damn this hit home hard.
Deified Data
Banned
I have a healthy fear of the police, as I believe everyone should. If you see a man walking toward your car with a gun at his hip, you'd have to be a lemming or have the naivitee of a child to not have some degree of fear.
It's a bizarre issue, really. The world is a vast, diverse, oft ambiguous place. Sometimes whites will be born into a world without privilege, sometimes blacks will be born into the lap of luxury. It's not as simple as calling one group inherently privileged and one group inherently disadvantaged. There are mitigating factors. The numbers skew, as they are wont to do, but nothing about the concept of "white privilege" is absolute.
I'd not like to be colored as someone who denies the existence of it - it's real, and it's powerful. I'm just saying I haven't reaped the benefits from it. Outliers exist in the world. I'm one of them, in many respects.
I agree. It's not behavior anyone would like to encourage.
Devolution
Member
Whites in America are advantaged over blacks and other minorities. I don't get the point of this spiel. You are not the "chosen one." There are things that you do not have to go through as a white male.
Deified Data
Banned
I don't go on "spiels".
I don't know why it has taken me so long, but I just thought of this post kame-sennin made quoting a great Tim Wise article in another recent topic we had about race:
Just as an example of one of those things that aren't necessarily reducible to statistics about incomes or what GPA one needs in order to get into medical school.
I think that there's also white privilege in areas that are caused by cultural narratives that effect black people in particular; people in studies being more likely to identify black men as dangerous and carrying weapons and more likely to identify white men as safe - even when the white men are actually holding a weapon, or people becoming increasingly more punitive as a defendant's skin tone becomes darker; or people becoming increasingly negative about lyrics when told they are rap lyrics (as opposed to the lyrics of white folk singers they actually are); or how when asked to close their eyes and picture a drug user, ninety-five percent of respondents imagined a black man and only five percent imagined someone from another race; or how after watching a news story about a crime in which no picture was shown and the race of the accused was not stated, sixty percent claimed to have recalled seeing a picture, and seventy percent of those believed that the man they saw was black; or the inconsistent way that white and black students are treated for similar sexual or aggressive behaviors due to assigning an "intentionality" to black students' actions that weren't attributed to white students (and a good example of the way gender can be racialized), etc.
These sorts of diffuse narratives that effect all of us at a subconscious level - we begin making these judgments about race when we first see a person before we are even consciously aware of them - and manifest in the form of stories and rhetorical devices that white people use to talk about race or racial outcomes that are constructed to avoid making these issues about race. And I think that it is because of these things, ultimately, that we have a society in which these things are true:
[...]
The full article, from the author of one of the books I suggested
And at the same time that these things are true, we can have people in one breath say that they are for equality and in another breath say that affirmative action is somehow unfair. We have people who somehow deny the existence of white privilege on the basis that there are white people who are disadvantaged for reasons unrelated to their race. We have people make incredibly reductive arguments of a fantasy in which if only they were black, their situation would be so much better - a fantasy that conveniently ignores all of the institutional and social disadvantages come with racism.
Just as an example of one of those things that aren't necessarily reducible to statistics about incomes or what GPA one needs in order to get into medical school.
I think that there's also white privilege in areas that are caused by cultural narratives that effect black people in particular; people in studies being more likely to identify black men as dangerous and carrying weapons and more likely to identify white men as safe - even when the white men are actually holding a weapon, or people becoming increasingly more punitive as a defendant's skin tone becomes darker; or people becoming increasingly negative about lyrics when told they are rap lyrics (as opposed to the lyrics of white folk singers they actually are); or how when asked to close their eyes and picture a drug user, ninety-five percent of respondents imagined a black man and only five percent imagined someone from another race; or how after watching a news story about a crime in which no picture was shown and the race of the accused was not stated, sixty percent claimed to have recalled seeing a picture, and seventy percent of those believed that the man they saw was black; or the inconsistent way that white and black students are treated for similar sexual or aggressive behaviors due to assigning an "intentionality" to black students' actions that weren't attributed to white students (and a good example of the way gender can be racialized), etc.
These sorts of diffuse narratives that effect all of us at a subconscious level - we begin making these judgments about race when we first see a person before we are even consciously aware of them - and manifest in the form of stories and rhetorical devices that white people use to talk about race or racial outcomes that are constructed to avoid making these issues about race. And I think that it is because of these things, ultimately, that we have a society in which these things are true:
"Recent data shows, though, that much of black progress is a myth. In many respects, African-Americans are doing no better than they were when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated and uprisings swept inner cities across America. Nearly a quarter of African-Americans live below the poverty line today, approximately the same percentage as in 1968. The black child poverty rate is actually higher now than it was then. Unemployment rates in black communities rival those in Third World countries. And that's with affirmative action!
When we pull back the curtain and take a look at what our "colorblind" society creates without affirmative action, we see a familiar social, political, and economic structure--the structure of racial caste. The entrance into this new caste system can be found at the prison gate."
When we pull back the curtain and take a look at what our "colorblind" society creates without affirmative action, we see a familiar social, political, and economic structure--the structure of racial caste. The entrance into this new caste system can be found at the prison gate."
[...]
Perhaps greater lies have been told in the past century, but they can be counted on one hand. Racial caste is alive and well in America.
Most people don't like it when I say this. It makes them angry. In the "era of colorblindness" there's a nearly fanatical desire to cling to the myth that we as a nation have "moved beyond" race. Here are a few facts that run counter to that triumphant racial narrative:
 There are more African-Americans under correctional control today--in prison or jail, on probation or parole--than were enslaved in 1850, a decade before the Civil War began.
 As of 2004, more African-American men were disenfranchised (due to felon disenfranchisement laws) than in 1870, the year the Fifteenth Amendment was ratified, prohibiting laws that explicitly deny the right to vote on the basis of race.
 A black child born today is less likely to be raised by both parents than a black child born during slavery. The recent disintegration of the African-American family is due in large part to the mass imprisonment of black fathers.
 If you take into account prisoners, a large majority of African-American men in some urban areas have been labeled felons for life. (In the Chicago area, the figure is nearly 80 percent.) These men are part of a growing undercaste--not class, caste--permanently relegated, by law, to a second-class status. They can be denied the right to vote, automatically excluded from juries, and legally discriminated against in employment, housing, access to education, and public benefits, much as their grandparents and great-grandparents were during the Jim Crow era.
Most people don't like it when I say this. It makes them angry. In the "era of colorblindness" there's a nearly fanatical desire to cling to the myth that we as a nation have "moved beyond" race. Here are a few facts that run counter to that triumphant racial narrative:
 There are more African-Americans under correctional control today--in prison or jail, on probation or parole--than were enslaved in 1850, a decade before the Civil War began.
 As of 2004, more African-American men were disenfranchised (due to felon disenfranchisement laws) than in 1870, the year the Fifteenth Amendment was ratified, prohibiting laws that explicitly deny the right to vote on the basis of race.
 A black child born today is less likely to be raised by both parents than a black child born during slavery. The recent disintegration of the African-American family is due in large part to the mass imprisonment of black fathers.
 If you take into account prisoners, a large majority of African-American men in some urban areas have been labeled felons for life. (In the Chicago area, the figure is nearly 80 percent.) These men are part of a growing undercaste--not class, caste--permanently relegated, by law, to a second-class status. They can be denied the right to vote, automatically excluded from juries, and legally discriminated against in employment, housing, access to education, and public benefits, much as their grandparents and great-grandparents were during the Jim Crow era.
The full article, from the author of one of the books I suggested
And at the same time that these things are true, we can have people in one breath say that they are for equality and in another breath say that affirmative action is somehow unfair. We have people who somehow deny the existence of white privilege on the basis that there are white people who are disadvantaged for reasons unrelated to their race. We have people make incredibly reductive arguments of a fantasy in which if only they were black, their situation would be so much better - a fantasy that conveniently ignores all of the institutional and social disadvantages come with racism.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
I like the "Whoa, we will solve the racism and white privilege problems on white people's terms, thank you very much." comments.
kame-sennin
Member
All of these things are countered by actual data. What is the basis for these beliefs? As I said, even controlling for other factors, the stress caused by dealing with racism shortens the lives of black people:
Years of research about which most have no awareness — because it doesn’t make the news — tells us that the daily coping with racialization, which people of color learn to do from an early age, but which whites rarely if ever experience, leaves scars. It contributes to the excess release of stress hormones in the black and brown body, causing something called allostatic load — a reference to the short-circuiting of the body’s natural defenses against anxiety-producing events and traumas. That allostatic load then corresponds to higher blood pressure, higher rates of heart disease, and early death. The research has found that even affluent black folks have higher markers for allostatic load than poor whites, despite the real stresses that the latter contend with each day.
http://www.timwise.org/2012/01/flyi...rivilege-and-the-evidence-of-things-not-felt/
How would you know? As I pointed out, in many ways, white privilege is about the things you don't have to experience. If you've never experienced they NYPD's Stop-and-Frisk policy, the way this man did, how would you be aware of your privilege? People are explaining to you, with data, essays, documentaries, and personal anecdotes, what the experience of black life is like in America. The only way you will understand how white privilege affects you is if you actually listen to them.
Deified Data
Banned
How would you know otherwise? Your data is not infallible, nor is it all-encompassing. The world is not a black and white place.
I've no desire for my mild beliefs to paint me as a straw-man just because all the dissenters have been shouted down or left. It's not something I want to argue, even if I thought it were possible. I feel I've expressed myself sufficiently. That's all.
Devolution
Member
Have you been racially profiled?
theignoramus
Member
but...there have been interest groups for Irish and Italian Americans for years. I'm sure there are interest groups for Polish Americans, Russian Americans, and Dutch Americans too.
jesus christ, this thread.
To deny the existence of racial privilege because some members of the dominant racial group lack class privilege (despite that racial group being overwhelmingly dominant in terms of class privilege) doesn't really make sense. Racial privilege is about race. A white person is privileged over a similarly situated black person. While there are individual black people who are more privileged than individual white people in terms of, say, class status, that same black person is still disadvantaged relative to a white person in the same social class. The fact that you do not have class privilege does not mean that you are not advantaged by racial privilege (just as the reverse is true - but a poor white person is still better off than a poor black person).
kame-sennin
Member
Are you suggesting that we should not believe these statistics? If so, why?
I haven't shouted anyone down. I haven't even posted before this page.
You can take your ball and go home if you like, but all I asked was why you felt that your subjective perspective trumped the mountains of data that contradicts it.
Red_Ragnarok
Banned
I assume youre referring to me.
-I live in Canada, and dont remember learning much about Asians in history books, or school. However, I dont remember learning much about Europe either though, except for when there was a direct connection to Canada. I learned more about Native Americans than Europeans that stayed in Europe. I doubt that in Asia, they teach about European countries that had no presence there historically.
-Yeah, the second point is true. When you take the overall population in to account, in the American media, Asians are severely underrepresented, whites are normal, and jews are heavily overrepresented.
-Sure, I guess Asian women are fetishized sometimes, but what about blondes, and ocassionally Eastern European girls? And what about the blacks and Asians that prefer whites? Why is that white privilege, while the other way around it is a fetish?
For the rest of your post, youre just acknowledging that minorities will have a harder time fitting in and being accepted. I agree with this, but I think that it is an unavoidable part of any society, so I dont see the point of this video focusing only on whites and making it seem like they should feel guilty about it.
Lots of the other stuff you talk about can easily apply to whites people as well, even in North America. There are actually many neighbourhoods where whites are a minority, Im sure white people can get rejected for being white there when they ask a non-white guy or girl out. You mention ethnic names getting fewer chances for jobs and law. Are you sure its because theyre not white? What about if theyre white but not English?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ing-names-hold-edge-for-job-seekers-in-survey
You talk about certain groups sticking to themselves in parts of the city. What does this have to do with white privilege; different white people segregate themselves too. When you go to a big city, there will be neighbourhoods that are almost all Chinese or Indian, but there are other neighbourhoods that almost all Polish or Italian or Portuguese.
English speaking whites in America are no different from Japanese in Japan. A group of people that had the most influence in the building of some society will be at an advantage in that society to some extent.
soul creator
Member
"all else being equal" is an important phrase to understand. It's pretty key to the discussion.
cutmeamango
Banned
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470581/ The study was black and white.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21428732
And this recent study is unfortunately not available to read, but it is interesting to note (for whichever reasons not discriminated there), mexican woman born in Mexico (and I assume, living in the US) have lower allostatic load than those born in the US.
Maybe mexico born woman think life is better in the US then it would be if they continued in Mexico? Really interesting thing.
I tried to find an international study, trying to relate ethnical differences with allostatic load, but could not find. If anyone has better skills at it, please do.
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See this privilege as the fact you are part of the dominant ethnicity. It may prove to be worthless through out your life, but in a wide scope, the society will cater to those who dominate it, since well, they are the society.
But then how could we make apples to oranges comparisons?
Wow.
- Status