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[nel e nel]

EDIT: off-topic post, nm.

 

[DY_nasty]

But not really. Let me explain. To use a metaphor, your point is that the stove cooks your food. I'm asking you how it works, and you keep telling me it cooks my food.

You're being obtuse beyond the point of even giving a fuck.

Its not even a question of providing you the information - not only is there a host of answers within this thread, but from a 4th grade education, you could simply go and draw a fairly decent and apt conclusion/response to your own inquiry.

Humor me - where do you think that system came from and why do you think its still in place?

 

[Mumei]

That's not really what I was asking, though. I know how oppression worked in the country's worst days. But can you explain to me how it works today? How society is 'set up' -- again that phrase -- today to favor white people?

Thanks for being patient with me.

I made a topic a few months back after reading a blog series (which itself was inspired by a book, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, which I also have recommended and linked to an article from the author in this topic) about the racism inherent in our criminal justice system that results in the mass marginalization of black people as a group.

That is a good place to start, though actually reading the book would be best.

And yes, I know they are long. If you would like to be educated on this issue, reading things is the best place to start.

 

[poppabk]

How many white Americans suffer from allostatic load as a result of racial stress, or are whites privileged by not having to worry about that?

On average blacks have a higher chance of having a higher allostatic load, but there will be blacks that have a lower allostatic load than a large percentage of whites and there will be whites that have a higher allostatic load than the majority of blacks. As far as I am aware there is no way of assigning allostatic load to a specific cause.

Applying averages and general rules that are not always true is pretty much the definition of a stereotype.

 

[poppabk]

"I haven't read shit and I have no intention of doing so. Ever."

The entire country was built on fucking over other cultures and whoever got off the boat last. It still is.

I have read a lot of this thread and still don't see an answer to how a white person born into abject poverty is unfairly privelidged.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I have read a lot of this thread and still don't see an answer to how a white person born into abject poverty is unfairly privelidged.

You're cute.

 

[kame-sennin]

On average blacks have a higher chance of having a higher allostatic load, but there will be blacks that have a lower allostatic load than a large percentage of whites and there will be whites that have a higher allostatic load than the majority of blacks. As far as I am aware there is no way of assigning allostatic load to a specific cause.

Applying averages and general rules that are not always true is pretty much the definition of a stereotype.

So you disagree with the conclusions of the study?

I have read a lot of this thread and still don't see an answer to how a white person born into abject poverty is unfairly privelidged.

I guess you missed the multiple posts about New York's Stop-and-Frisk policy.

 

[Devolution]

I have read a lot of this thread and still don't see an answer to how a white person born into abject poverty is unfairly privelidged.

Do they get racially profiled? Will they serve out the same sentence for the same crime all other things equal?

 

[Alvarius]

The discussion about who is worse off reminds me of this from Max Hastings's new book Inferno: The World at War 1939-1945.

It would have seemed monstrous to a British or American soldier facing a mortar barrage, with his comrades dying around him, to be told that Russian casualties were many times greater. It would have been insulting to invite a hungry Frenchman, or even an English housewife weary of the monotony of rations, to consider that in besieged Leningrad starving people were eating one another, while in West Bengal they were selling their daughters. Few people who endured the Luftwaffe's 1940-41 blitz on London would have been comforted by the knowledge that the German and Japanese peoples would later face losses from Allied bombing many times greater, together with unparalleled devastation.

 

[kame-sennin]

Do they get racially profiled? Will they serve out the same sentence for the same crime all other things equal?

I think part of the problem is that people equate "privilege" with "luxury". Having privilege does not mean your life will be easy. I am a man. That means I have some unearned privileges that women do not have (higher pay for the same work, less chance of being sexually assaulted), but it does not mean my life will necessarily be easy. I can be born into abject poverty, but that doesn't change the fact I am safer walking down the street at night than any woman regardless of her economic status. That is a privilege I have, that women do not have, that I did nothing to earn. It doesn't make me feel "guilty" to admit this. But it is something I need to be aware of if I'm to challenge societal inequalities.

The discussion about who is worse off reminds me of this from Max Hastings's new book Inferno: The World at War 1939-1945.

No one is arguing about who has it worse. People are explaining the way that privilege affects different groups of people. Also, I responded to your request for a summary, did you read my post?

 

[Vicetrailia]

I think part of the problem is that people equate "privilege" with "luxury". Having privilege does not mean your life will be easy. I am a man. That means I have some unearned privileges that women do not have (higher pay for the same work, less chance of being sexually assaulted), but it does not mean my life will necessarily be easy. I can be born into abject poverty, but that doesn't change the fact I am safer walking down the street at night than any woman regardless of her economic status.

Right, people tie it to material things where there are many other things to consider (that they never think about).

 

[Alvarius]

No one is arguing about who has it worse. People are explaining the way that privilege affects different groups of people. Also, I responded to your request for a summary, did you read my post?

I beg to differ. More than a few people in this thread have said that it's grotesque to explain to a poor white person with all kinds of serious problems how privileged they are. And it reminded me of that quotation. (Edit: I don't mean to reassert the point. But you said that it was never being discussed to begin with, and I think it was. Don't feel obliged to respond to it.)

And yes, I read your post. Thank you for writing it.

 

[poppabk]

So you disagree with the conclusions of the study?

Which study? I was reading this study:
“Weathering” and Age Patterns of Allostatic Load Scores Among Blacks and Whites in the United States

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

Um. How many times have you heard white fever on TV? At the movies? And being blonde, brunette, redhead is irrelevant. Very few people are going to outright dismiss you because of your hair colour. It's your skin colour that is the biggest magnet of attention.

Never heard white fever, but can’t remember a time when I heard of yellow or jungle fever in the movies either, maybe because I don’t watch comedies. Was it white characters who say these lines? Yellow fever was coined by an Asian person, and you’re probably not going to see a white person come up with some white alternative like snow fever, because from what I see, they seem to avoid talking about race.

Okay. Hypothetically. Let's say that this does happen. As I'm sure it does. What does that white man or woman do after that? Go home and lament their existence? Or will they most likely just shrug it off and move on after a bit? Will they not have a massive amount of white people willing to give them a chance anyway?

It depends on the demographics of the place where they live. Not every place in America is mostly white. What if there are much more non-whites? Then there wouldn’t be a massive amount of white people willing to give them a chance.

It sounds like you grew up somewhere where you were the only non-white person.

This PSA is about America specifically and not any other country. I can guarantee you that it is not saying that white people are responsible for all the problems in the world. Some people are taking the video as an attack on white people. That is not the case. Rather the overarching message is saying that any group, no matter what colour, religion, gender, sex, etc; IF you are a majority. You DO have a responsibility and should try to help the minorities integrate into your society.
.

Well I guess it doesn’t do a good job of sending that message when it just talks about whites and doesn’t consider that there are areas in America where whites wouldn’t have such privilege. Where I live, whites aren’t the majority.

And lastly. I too am Canadian. That does not insulate me from racism and has not insulated me from racism.

I wasn't implying that there isn't racism in Canada, I was just stating where I live because I was replying to your comment about minorities in history books and the school system.

I wanted to quote the poster who said that white priviledge isn't a global phenomenon, and if there is such a thing, is confined to western countries. You wouldn't find it in Asia. Ahem:

July/August 2010 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE
Rent a White Guy | Confessions of a fake businessman from Beijing -- The Atlantic

-- more in link

(Video) Chinese companies 'rent' white foreigners -- CNN
June 29, 2010 7:33 a.m. EDT

That doesn’t have anything to do with being accepted into society and fitting in which is what I was discussing. They want some white guy so that the company can look like it has ties to wealthy American businesses or something. The white guy is there because he is a foreigner, and different from the Chinese. How is that a privilege while the jungle fever or yellow fever that CrushDance is talking about is a negative thing?

 

[blame space]

how do we make people not be assholes?

 

[Devolution]

I beg to differ. More than a few people in this thread have said that it's grotesque to explain to a poor white person with all kinds of serious problems how privileged they are. And it reminded me of that quotation. (Edit: I don't mean to reassert the point. But you said that it was never being discussed to begin with, and I think it was. Don't feel obliged to respond to it.)

And yes, I read your post. Thank you for writing it.

Regardless of your economic class, race or gender you can still recognize when people suffer an injustice. Being poor doesn't make someone stupid or unsympathetic to the plights of others.

 

[kame-sennin]

I beg to differ. More than a few people in this thread have said that it's grotesque to explain to a poor white person with all kinds of serious problems how privileged they are. And it reminded me of that quotation. (Edit: I don't mean to reassert the point. But you said that it was never being discussed to begin with, and I think it was. Don't feel obliged to respond to it.)

And yes, I read your post. Thank you for writing it.

I see what you're saying.

Which study? I was reading this study:
“Weathering” and Age Patterns of Allostatic Load Scores Among Blacks and Whites in the United States

Yes, that one:

Conclusions. We found evidence that racial inequalities in health exist across a range of biological systems among adults and are not explained by racial differences in poverty. The weathering effects of living in a race-conscious society may be greatest among those Blacks most likely to engage in high-effort coping.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

But would people want to give up that privilege?

 

[chronos4590]

You seem like a smart fellow. Can you tell me in a few sentences how American society is set up to screw other cultures? This......is just restating the issue. I'm just asking you to give me a quick answer about how it works. From you.

No! cause it honestly can't and should not be described in such a manner.

I have read a lot of this thread and still don't see an answer to how a white person born into abject poverty is unfairly privileged.

On behalf of people of color, i'm sorry that the fact that us being underprivileged minority is such a complex topic that is inconvenient for some of you to understand it in a concise sentence.

Ok seriously though the struggles that people of color has gone though is basic grade school knowledge, And shit the secondary education system is horrible at truly explaining how race has been in America besides basic topics and events on slavery and civil rights movement. It's honestly not hard and people in this thread has gave copious amounts of information for you to get a better understanding. All you have to do is give in the attempt to read/watch the information actually given to you. I'm not even try trying to be kind on this cause it really burns me that people can't grasp the basic concept of this.

There is a great PBS Program called Africans in America that helps describe the African American experience in history --> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/home.html
I believe someone posted Some books "The New Jim Crow" And Tim Wises[A name that has appeared in this thread countless times] Book Colorblind: The Rise of Post-Racial Politics and the Retreat from Racial Equity
You can look up studies on DWB[Driving while black] and the amount of people wrongfully pulled over for the color or their skin[And if you'd like i can give you personal testimonies from myself and my family members about their experiences being pulled over for wrongful reasons]. It doesn't take much more than an effort to honestly read, watch and listen. Use the information given in this thread and use it as a tool to educate yourself as well as other people.

 

[chronos4590]

Driving While Black: Racial Profiling On Our Nation's Highways
From June 7th 1999

DRUG TRAFFICKERS ARE NOT "MOSTLY MINORITIES"
Racial profiling is based on the premise that most drug offenses are committed by minorities. The premise is factually untrue, but it has nonetheless become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because police look for drugs primarily among African Americans and Latinos, they find a disproportionate number of them with contraband. Therefore, more minorities are arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and jailed, thus reinforcing the perception that drug trafficking is primarily a minority activity. This perception creates the profile that results in more stops of minority drivers. At the same time, white drivers receive far less police attention, many of the drug dealers and possessors among them go unapprehended, and the perception that whites commit fewer drug offenses than minorities is perpetuated. And so the cycle continues.

The consequences of these law enforcement practices and sentencing policies are painfully evident today in the demographics of our prison population. According to an April 1999 report prepared for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights by The Sentencing Project, there are now an estimated 400,000 inmates in the U.S. either awaiting trial or serving time for a drug offense, out of a total inmate population of 1.7 million. "The combined impact of increased drug arrests along with harsher sentencing policies has led to a vast expansion of drug offenders in the nation's prisons and jails," the report explains. "As these policies have been implemented, they have increasingly affected African American and Hispanic communities. The African American proportion of drug arrests has risen from 25 percent in 1980 to 37 percent in 1995. Hispanic and African American inmates are more likely than non-Hispanic whites to be incarcerated for a drug offense."

Today, blacks constitute 13 percent of the country's drug users; 37 percent of those arrested on drug charges; 55 percent of those convicted; and 74 percent of all drug offenders sentenced to prison.

Today does refer to June 7th 1999 however it's still relevant today. The numbers could be slightly less or slightly more now. But These inequalities are still happening today[hence this thread]

 

[Dude Abides]

Well, I'm glad we established that a white person born into grinding poverty probably has it worse than Barack Obama's kids.

 

[blame space]

that's a bingo.

 

[kame-sennin]

But would people want to give up that privilege?

To use my example of male privilege - walking safely on the street at night - that is not something I would have to give up in order for women to be given equal treatment in society. In fact, improving rights for women and challenging the social norms that contribute to rape and sexual assault actually make me safer as a man. Likewise, challenging the structural inequalities that oppress black people in society would benefit white people in numerous ways. No one but the prison industrial complex benefits from our current overpopulated prison system. Fewer people incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses means fewer citizens being transformed into hardened criminals by the prison system, which makes our streets safer. More economic opportunities for black men means more consumers and a healthier economy.

 

[poppabk]

On behalf of people of color, i'm sorry that the fact that us being underprivileged minority is such a complex topic that its in convenient for some of you to understand it in a concise sentence.

Ok seriously though the struggles that people of color has gone though is basic grade school knowledge, And shit the secondary education system is horrible at truly explaining how race has been in America besides basic topics and events on slavery and civil rights movement. It's honestly not hard and people in this thread has gave copious amounts of information for you to get a better understanding. All you have to do is give in the attempt to read/watch the information actually given to you. I'm not even try trying to be kind on this cause it really burns me that people can't grasp the basic concept of this.

There is a great PBS Program called Africans in America that helps describe the African American experience in history --> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/home.html
I believe someone posted the book "The New Jim Crow" And Tim Wises[A name that has appeared in this thread countless times] Book Colorblind: The Rise of Post-Racial Politics and the Retreat from Racial Equity
You can look up studies on DWB[ Driving while black] and the amount of people wrongfully pulled over for the color or their skin[And if you'd like i can give you personal testimonies from myself and my family members about their experiences being pulled over for wrongful reasons]. It doesn't take much more than an effort to honestly read, watch and listen. Use the information given in this thread and use it as a tool to educate yourself as well as other people.

That isn't privilege though, you are talking about disparities between races, caused by historical racism and continuing racial profiling and institutionalized racism.

 

[Devolution]

That isn't privilege though, you are talking about disparities between races, caused by historical racism and continuing racial profiling and institutionalized racism.

You mean that white folk are privileged not to have to deal with those things?

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I wished I was white many times, if for no other reason than that it's soooo much easier to get laid if you're white.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

You mean that white folk are privileged not to have to deal with those things?

Perfect.

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

Are whites unfairly privileged, or are blacks unfairly underprivileged?

 

[Doomsayer]

What a crock.

I'm white and haven't got anywhere based off of my racial background.

Spoiler

maybe because I'm a ginger, lulz.

I've had to work my ass off to get where I am right now. Meanwhile I see other races getting ahead of me because of their connections within companies despite not having the necessary merits to back up their positions.

I actually had a conversation about this with a friend recently. There is this false belief that whites have it so easy, especially in reference to colleges and the work place. Two of my good friends who are both Asian and Hispanic got multiple grants and financial aide will going to College. This is while I, white as paper, got absolutely nothing and was not even eligible for financial aide basted off of my parents income. Funny thing is, both of my buddies parents make significantly more than my parents. So I was privileged enough to pay out of my ass for College!

Guilt is awesome.

Spoiler

This is probably going to be my only post in this thread, I will more than likely get banned if I continue.

 

[kame-sennin]

You mean that white folk are privileged not to have to deal with those things?

As I mentioned before, a lot of people just don't understand what the word 'privilege' means in this context.

Are whites unfairly privileged, or are blacks unfairly underprivileged?

It's both. The foundational example is slavery, which oppressed blacks but also provided whites with unearned wealth.

 

[YoungHav]

Are you serious? Based on the color of your skin, you are seen as the boss and give "true" legitimacy to an entire company. BASED ON THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN.

No Asian, Hispanic, or black person would get that offer.

LOL, I had a conversation with an Arab guy in the financial business. He told me a partner of his (Arab) had a business meeting in the Middle East. The partner put his white driver in a suit and bought him to the meeting to make things more legit. Sounds like a comedy.

Spoiler

This is probably going to be my only post in this thread, I will more than likely get banned if I continue.

Good, because there is an adult discussion being had.

 

[Blackace]

I love the whole "I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN ANYTHING FROM THE COLOR OF MY SKIN" statements that pop up... the 400 year headstart still applies in America today. Has it gotten better? Yes. Is it close to fair, yet? No..

 

[krioto]

Well, for myself, being a white, heterosexual male living in an advanced western country (not USA) - yeah - life's good.

sogood.gif

 

[blame space]

I wished I was white many times, if for no other reason than that it's soooo much easier to get laid if you're white.

I was under the impression that you didn't see race.

 

[blame space]

I love the whole "I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN ANYTHING FROM THE COLOR OF MY SKIN" statements that pop up... the 400 year headstart still applies in America today. Has it gotten better? Yes. Is it close to fair, yet? No..

I ask this 100% genuinely.. hypothetically, could this distinction ever be drawn? if so, how? shit's just too fucked up.

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

I love the whole "I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN ANYTHING FROM THE COLOR OF MY SKIN" statements that pop up... the 400 year headstart still applies in America today. Has it gotten better? Yes. Is it close to fair, yet? No..

What if I’m a first generation immigrant who lives in a place populated by Indian and Chinese first generation immigrants?

 

[Blackace]

I ask this 100% genuinely.. hypothetically, could this distinction ever be drawn? if so, how? shit's just too fucked up.

What distinction do you want drawn?


almost 500 years of inequality is a lot of ground to make up.. Not happening in 50 years of near equality.

 

[Blackace]

What if I’m a first generation immigrant who lives in a place populated by Indian and Chinese first generation immigrants?

I won't over complicate things.. but really that is far from the norm in the states.. and if you are an immigrate from a western country then you might have a get some better chances than your fellow immigrant counterparts..

 

[Wallach]

What if I’m a first generation immigrant who lives in a place populated by Indian and Chinese first generation immigrants?

Then you probably wouldn't need the idea explained to you in the first place because you'd have seen it first-hand.

 

[Dude Abides]

What if I’m a first generation immigrant who lives in a place populated by Indian and Chinese first generation immigrants?

What if you are? Does this have something to do with white privilege or are we just positing interesting hypotheticals? What if I'm the first white man on Mars and all the Martians look down on me? Where is my privilege then?

 

[kame-sennin]

What if I’m a first generation immigrant who lives in a place populated by Indian and Chinese first generation immigrants?

If you live in New York city, you still have the privilege of not having your constitutional rights violated on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis by the police who - were you black or brown - might stop and search you without probable cause.

 

[poppabk]

You mean that white folk are privileged not to have to deal with those things?

But in the grand scheme of 'privelidge' the gulf between the life that a billionaire lives and that of an impoverished family is so vast that the differences between a poor white person and a poor black person are practically undetectable when measured on that scale.

 

[UrokeJoe]

almost 500 years of inequality is a lot of ground to make up.. Not happening in 50 years of near equality.

That is totally true, but we have come along way in the last 50, compared to the the other 450.

 

[Satch]

But in the grand scheme of 'privelidge' the gulf between the life that a billionaire lives and that of an impoverished family is so vast that the differences between a poor white person and a poor black person are practically undetectable when measured on that scale.

you sound a hot ass mess right now

 

[kame-sennin]

But in the grand scheme of 'privelidge' the gulf between the life that a billionaire lives and that of an impoverished family is so vast that the differences between a poor white person and a poor black person are practically undetectable when measured on that scale.

Privilege is not about living a life of luxury. Privilege is about benefiting in ways that one may or may not perceive because society is set up in favor of one group and in opposition to another.

 

[Wallach]

But in the grand scheme of 'privelidge' the gulf between the life that a billionaire lives and that of an impoverished family is so vast that the differences between a poor white person and a poor black person are practically undetectable when measured on that scale.

You are trying to pretend that people here are explaining "privilege" to you in general, non-specific ways - as if it was trying to bridge the gulf of difference between two people living completely different lifestyles - when they are in fact quite specific in explaining the ways this privilege reveals itself. Please stop.

 

[captmcblack]

I love reading this thread and watching people do fucking Hot Wheels stunts to avoid the realities of their privilege.

 

[blame space]

What distinction do you want drawn?


almost 500 years of inequality is a lot of ground to make up.. Not happening in 50 years of near equality.

I just mean a world where white privilege doesn't exist. I realize now that this was stupid.

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

What if you are? Does this have something to do with white privilege or are we just positing interesting hypotheticals? What if I'm the first white man on Mars and all the Martians look down on me? Where is my privilege then?

Blackace was saying that white people are privileged because of slavery, but I think it’s more that black people are underprivileged because of it. I don’t see how I got any privilege relative to other immigrants who were not rich and didn’t speak English like me.

If you live in New York city, you still have the privilege of not having your constitutional rights violated on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis by the police who - were you black or brown - might stop and search you without probable cause.

I’m not in New York City, and I don’t know any white or non-white people who have been getting stopped and searched by police on a regular basis.

 

[Esch]

I love reading this thread and watching people do fucking Hot Wheels stunts to avoid the realities of their privilege.

more contortions than an insecure popper on meth.