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grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
One Piece 674:



That's actually one thing I'm hoping for with Monet being around. Unlike Fishman Island where Oda decided to regulate them to grunt clean up duty because all the opponents were males despite having enough male opponents to cover all the Straw Hats, Monet should be no problem for Robin or Nami to fight. And with Robin being close by, she has the best chance of getting matched up with her. That and Robin having a "flying/wing" ability to match Monet seems like a no brainer. But Oda always finds a way to mess up the female characters when it comes to getting their hands dirty (unless they look like monsters and their hands are already "dirty") and right now the main obstacle is the Zoro clone inside of Nami's body. I can easily see Oda passing on Robin yet again by having Sanji->Nami take on Monet in some lame comedic fashion ("I can never harm a female...but I can't let you hurt Nami-san's body" or something along those lines).

I lost all hope of Monet fighting once Law stated that he needed her for whatever his plan is. Add that to the random speculation out there on Monet and I'm pessimistic on her fighting. I fully expect her to change allegencies to Law once this arc is over since she is pretty carefree about everything and has no particular loyalty. Plus the author seems to be purposefully avoiding any kind of character development with her so far.
 

Kusagari

Member
Medaka Box:

Poor Zenkichi.

But who cares? Our omnipotent goddess is on her way!

The one thing this manga always needs is more Ajimu.
 
oohh, I missed this post

Have you read any of the following

Solanin
Goodnight Punpun
Gambling Emperor Legend Zero

All these three should get priority over TWGOK and are far better.

I'm taking my time with Punpun, it's so sad :(

But yeah, if Solanin is better than TWGOK I'll read that first. GELZ comes later.
 
Nagasarete Airantou 121

Wait, so the enemy offered to bring back multiple, willing, attractive men, if you'd just let her bring Ikuto back home? And the haremites all refuse, because they'd rather have Ikuto the useless MC than anyone else? Of course that was certain to happen, but that should have been a pretty tempting offer, objectively...
 

Metal B

Member
One Piece
And Brownbeard is alive (it seems someone always fall for this shit)

Brownbeard being alive was an clever plot device to make Ceasar more dangerous by showing of his power and let him look much more evil then before. I like the development of the character, which is the opposite of Hody. While Hody was shown to be powerful and dangerous since the beginning, what he wasn't at the end (By the way i think many people didn't understand, that Hody being weak was a very important character point. Racial people are mostly unconfident and weak personalities, who try to feel stronger by blaming other for there horrible situation. He even had to use powerful drugs to even be some kind of threat.) Ceasar powers were more hidden and even downplayed by Luffy "defeating" him very early. Hody weak persona even helps Ceasar, since people thought he would be the same kind of pushover and that there was a stronger person around the corner. Now he shows to be a very big threat, not only for the Strawhats, but for the whole world by selling weapons of mass destruction.

Do you believe Oda will bring an real Hiroshima arc into the story (besides Robin's backstory)?
 

duckroll

Member
Isn't the highest selling volume only at like 700K? That seems like massive channel stuffing.

I'm looking at the previous news articles regarding Silver Spoon's printed shipments versus the tracked sales by Oricon, there's definitely quite a gap. But I also think that analyzing it a little gives us insight into why it makes sense for them to push high volumes into stores.

At the end of November 2011, when they released the second volume, they announced that they published over a million copies for the series. The initial run for the first volume was 330k, but Oricon only tracked about 180k (2 weeks) before it fell off the public charts. It's pretty probable that they eventually sold all 330k, but since it was too low to chart for the public numbers the site provides, we don't see it. Either way, this means when they released the second volume, they were already printing more of Vol1 to anticipate new readers getting interested as Vol2 hit the stores.

When Vol3 was released in April, they put out another news release saying that the series publication total was now over 2.5 million copies. There is an additional note that at the time Arakawa won the manga prize for Silver Spoon in March, the series total was at 1.5 million copies, but since the award, it increased by another million. No doubt a large percentage of that extra million is from Vol3 being released. They also mention at this point that the first volume has over 800k copies printed.

But here's when we can see the difference between tracked sales and shipment into stores. Oricon's first half of 2012 sales charts are up, and they cover the period from Nov 21 2011 to May 20 2012. For this period the tracking shows that Vol1 sold 358,665 copies, Vol2 sold 610,956 copies, and Vol3 sold 492,198 copies.

I think it would be logical to conclude that since this tracking period tracked -all- of Vol2's total 6 month shelf-life up until May 20, that it is the most conclusive number to indicate the probable size of Silver Spoon buying fanbase at that point, and it is also likely that Vol1 has sold at least that much or more in total, and that Vol3 would eventually sell at least that much.

Based on the 800k figure for Vol1 given in April, I think that would be fair to say that if they have a total of about 800k of each volume published, and they sold over 600k of each to customers, that would be 200k of each of the 3 volumes available in stores throughout Japan.

This is a 2007 report on the book market of Japan: http://www.jbpa.or.jp/en/pdf/bookmarket.pdf

From that we know two things. A) Japan uses a consignment system for book sales, which means unsold and unwanted stock CAN be returned, B) there are about 30k bookstores throughout Japan. That works out to less than 7 copies of each Silver Spoon volume being unsold stock on average in each store. That seems extremely reasonable for a series which is getting more and more popular, and why would a store want to be caught without a copy to sell if it's a hot property?

With Vol4 coming out next week, they announced that total series publication has surpassed 4 million copies. This is once again in-line with the 1 million copies of Vol4 being published. It makes sense that if they're going to print more of Vol4, they will also want to push more of Vol1-3 into stores to meet expected demand.

With a consignment system in place, it seems unlikely that publishers would want to aggressively over-print if there is no real demand. The fact that they are jumping from 800k in April to 1 million now in July, indicates that the series has continued to sell well in the last 3 months and they feel there is demand to be met. This does not mean that Vol4 will sell a million copies, but rather that in the next few months they expect readership to increase gradually from 600k to 800k or more.

There will always be a bunch of unsold copies available to be purchased, so the shipment and sales figures will never line up. The series publication numbers will also stray further and further from sales totals as each volume is released, because you have to stock every volume in case of new readers.

I think it'll be interesting to see the full year sales charts for 2012 in relation to Silver Spoon, to get an even better picture of how successful the series is growing throughout the year.
 

Lain

Member
Good Ending dropped by the team translating it. My rage is at a higher level than from reading any chapter of the series.
Still, if it frees up resources for them to work on something else, then that's a net benefit, I suppose.

RageHawk dropped it? And they keep doing KNIM? Don't really get it.
 

flawfuls

Member
Information

Wow that was a very informative post. Thanks. It's always interesting to see how the industry works and most people do go into this kind of detail.

I'm always amazed at how radically different the manga, anime and Japanese video game. The manga industry seems to think a lot more long term. I imagine the low price of manga and the fact that publishers actually share the risk with publishers help stop the some of the things that prevent the video game industry from thinking long term (floods of used games/bomba prices soon after release).

Silver Spoon is quality, I think it deserves what ever success it gets.

Everything about Silver Spoon success really warms my heart. I mean the author of a mega hit went on to do a passion project about her roots and was somehow met with the same level of success. And Silver Spoon just sends such a positive message. It is meant to actually teach people about where the food they eat comes from and Hachiken is just a really good relatable role model for the kids who read it. And of course its just a damn good read.

I have so much respect for Arakawa. I should probably finish reading FMA one of these days!
 

Lain

Member
A Girl By The Sea vol 1
3758d3ba7cd1e2ebe595c5a3795cda4e42d0e842.jpeg


As usual, I like Asano's character designs and dislike his photoshopped backgrounds.
Interesting story, a bit dark and depressing but I'm getting used to that with Asano by now.
I like both Koume and Keisuke, so I hope they'll grow up to become a bit more mature, in Koume's case, and a bit more open, in Keisuke's. This naturally taking into consideration that Keisuke didn't die after what happened at the end of the volume.

There is one thing that surprised me though, given the age of the characters, I didn't expect to see uncensored sex scenes.
 

flawfuls

Member
A Girl By The Sea vol 1
3758d3ba7cd1e2ebe595c5a3795cda4e42d0e842.jpeg


As usual, I like Asano's character designs and dislike his photoshopped backgrounds.
Interesting story, a bit dark and depressing but I'm getting used to that with Asano by now.
I like both Koume and Keisuke, so I hope they'll grow up to become a bit more mature, in Koume's case, and a bit more open, in Keisuke's. This naturally taking into consideration that Keisuke didn't die after what happened at the end of the volume.

There is one thing that surprised me though, given the age of the characters, I didn't expect to see uncensored sex scenes.

An interesting thing about A Girl By the Sea is that the editor is Naoki Yamaoto (Believers, Dance Till Tomorrow, Arigato). The manga really feels like a collaboration between him and Asano.
 

duckroll

Member
Wow that was a very informative post. Thanks. It's always interesting to see how the industry works and most people do go into this kind of detail.

I'm always amazed at how radically different the manga, anime and Japanese video game. The manga industry seems to think a lot more long term. I imagine the low price of manga and the fact that publishers actually share the risk with publishers help stop the some of the things that prevent the video game industry from thinking long term (floods of used games/bomba prices soon after release).

Thanks. I'm definitely not an expert on the subject matter, but I'm interested enough in the surprising success of Silver Spoon to do a little bit of research so we have something to talk about.

You're definitely right though, it's a huge contrast between the publishing industry in Japan and the game/anime industry in Japan. The biggest factor is certainly the price barrier. Even for games though, it's not really that bad since they are singular self-contained products, and not serialized. While it's hard for a lot of games to retain their value, Nintendo in particular seems to be able to manage it pretty well.

The big problem in my opinions is really the anime industry. The pricing and the business model there is so broken that it has really cemented itself as a market where you have to sell extremely overpriced goods to a small select audience. The actual market for people who would buy anime is clearly much larger, since with single movies and certain OVAs, we see much higher sales simply because it is considered realistically affordable.

If the anime industry somehow ever managed to get reinvented like the manga industry, with people being able to buy shows for reasonable prices instead of having to spend 600 dollars to own a series, I think it would be a lot healthier and varied. I don't see it ever happening though. :(
 

Kurita

Member
Toriko volume 5
Great volume overall, I kind of like Sunny now.

The price of mangas in Japan never stops to blow mind. The raise of the VAT in France was insane, some mangas cost like 7€ now.
 
The big problem in my opinions is really the anime industry. The pricing and the business model there is so broken that it has really cemented itself as a market where you have to sell extremely overpriced goods to a small select audience. The actual market for people who would buy anime is clearly much larger, since with single movies and certain OVAs, we see much higher sales simply because it is considered realistically affordable.

If the anime industry somehow ever managed to get reinvented like the manga industry, with people being able to buy shows for reasonable prices instead of having to spend 600 dollars to own a series, I think it would be a lot healthier and varied. I don't see it ever happening though. :(

Don't want to go to off topic but the anime industry has problems but the business model in not broken .
The last thing the Japanese anime industry want is what happen to NA one .
Plus allot of factors happen when it comes to making anime.
 

duckroll

Member
Don't want to go to off topic but the anime industry has problems but the business model in not broken .
The last thing the Japanese anime industry want is what happen to NA one .

I disagree. A broken business model does not always imply that they're not making money. It suggests rather that the model is not ideal or particularly effective in serving the needs of the full potential audience it could have.
 

dramatis

Member
PSI Kusuo Saiki

New Jump ranking are out and this is ranked pretty high. Why is no one scanning it?
Because there are ridiculous amounts of text and the art is just terrible enough to be demoralizing.

I think of the art as more "old-fashioned" style but it really is quite terrible in a way. I also read a few pages of the first chapter (I think it was the first chapter) and there's enough text to shame even Gintama on its wordier weeks. But it is funny. I'm surprised it got such a high ranking though.
 

survivor

Banned
An interesting thing about A Girl By the Sea is that the editor is Naoki Yamaoto (Believers, Dance Till Tomorrow, Arigato). The manga really feels like a collaboration between him and Asano.

That explains everything

Arigato was really depressing. I couldn't read beyond the first volume, so sad :(
 

duckroll

Member
That explains everything

Arigato was really depressing. I couldn't read beyond the first volume, so sad :(

I don't really find Girl by the Sea to be depressing. It's a pretty negative outlook on life, sure, but it's not an unrealistic mood for teenagers going through that sort of phase. Arigatou on the other hand was really.... painful. I get the sort of thing they were going for, but it really wasn't something I enjoyed reading, nor do I think it was a particularly realistic depiction of anything. It felt like a dry black comedy in some way, similar to Sympathy for Mr Vengeance. Tragedy taken to a point where it becomes sorta/kinda comical but still incredibly depressing. Definitely not for me.
 
Nah, though he doesn't have a nose, he definitely has to breath like everybody else, he did pass out from the slepping gas as the crew was kidnapped by CC's goons at the beginning of the arc.
Brook has a habit of doing things that living people do. Like pretending he can breathe. He has no lungs, he can't breathe

Though that doesn't mean it will be a story element
 
I disagree. A broken business model does not always imply that they're not making money. It suggests rather that the model is not ideal or particularly effective in serving the needs of the full potential audience it could have.

The problem is the eg you gave to show why it can have higher sales can't be used for TV series .
You say movie\OADs are price realistically affordable when that is far from the truth and you don't look at all the factors involved .

EDIT

HSDK
Not talk about this for a while ,
We on to a new arc and i hope it better than the last one the only good thing about was the master fight .
So far this new arc start of with a date lets see where things go from there .
 

duckroll

Member
The problem is the eg you gave to show why it can have higher sales can't be used for TV series .
You say movie\OADs are price realistically affordable when that far from the truth when you look at all the factors involved .

I don't think you really understand what I'm saying. When you spend 4800yen, you can get a Ghibli or Evangelion movie on DVD. That gives you 2 hours of entertainment, and you don't have to spend another cent to continue watching more. These go on to sell 800k to over a million copies. That shows that there are a million people willing to buy something to watch if they feel it is not unreasonable.

The best selling TV anime on DVD/BD can't even hit 100k per volume. There is no doubt that a major factor behind that is that you have to spend over 6800yen to get 60 minutes (3 episodes) on average. The justification just isn't there.

To bring this discussion on topic with the thread, let's look at Blue Exorcist as an example. The TV anime was extremely successful in turning the manga from a pretty low selling series into one of the best selling new shounen fighting manga series. Yet the anime itself doesn't sell anywhere close to what the manga does. This is because the business models are completely different for consumers, and buying anime is much less appealing. But the anime helping the manga take off suddenly shows that people did watch the anime, and they obviously didn't dislike it because it made them interested in buying the manga.

Before the anime was announced, the Blue Exorcist manga was selling sub-100k copies per volume. The anime aired in 2011, and in that year these are the sales for the manga:

Vol1 - 734,548
Vol2 - 707,824
Vol3 - 696,169
Vol4 - 690,065
Vol5 - 799,496
Vol6 - 800,037
Vol7 - 795,573

These are not total cumulative sales. That's just what those volumes sold in 2011. The manga has been around since 2009, but with the awareness of the anime, suddenly the readership exploded. That's because people can pick up a volume of manga for 300yen and read it on a train. Being able to jump from <100k to 800k in readership is a huge boost, and the fact that it is possible shows the health and strength of the industry. Low barrier of entry, pro-consumer.

Anime is the complete opposite. It is expensive and a high barrier of entry. It encourages people who are into the hobby to stick with it out of loyalty and rarely ever tries to attract and sustain a larger buying fanbase.

Here are the total sales of Blue Exorcist anime:

Vol01 - 23,267 (8,852 BD, 14,415 DVD)
Vol02 - 17,027 (6,901 BD, 10,126 DVD)
Vol03 - 14,151 (6,054 BD, 8,097 DVD)
Vol04 - 13,282 (5,484 BD, 7,798 DVD)
Vol05 - 11,660 (4,857 BD, 6,803 DVD)
Vol06 - 10,232 (4,386 BD, 5,846 DVD)
Vol07 - 8,666 (3,108 BD, 5,558 DVD)
Vol08 - 9,125 (3,907 BD, 5,218 DVD)
Vol09 - 8,573 (3,681 BD, 4,892 DVD)
Vol10 - 8,782 (3,807 BD, 4,975 DVD)

The series sales dropped off really quickly, when fans felt that the monthly installments of 60-70 dollars were too much to continue buying the anime volumes. This is an indication that a good number of people who bought the first few volumes were fans who are not the hardcore types used to faithfully buying overpriced anime without complains, but rather more mainstream fans. The huge increase in the manga sales also suggests there to be a large mainstream impact, just one which the anime sales themselves could not really tap into because of the nature of the business model.

When the TV anime is more effective as a glorified advertising model for a manga, than as a product which can sell a ton of copies to support itself, I think there is definitely a sign that the way anime is being made and sold is problematic. The unfortunate fact is that the business model has been in place for so long, and defines the industry so much, that it is too much of a risk for any existing company to want to take the initiative to try and change. The people who are losing out the most here are the consumers, since it limits their choices to either not supporting shows they like, or paying unreasonable prices to own home copies.
 

scy

Member
Medaka Box 154 - dat respon--wut. :( :( :(

Anshin'in to the rescue I guess.

Nagasarete Airantou 121

Wait, so the enemy offered to bring back multiple, willing, attractive men, if you'd just let her bring Ikuto back home? And the haremites all refuse, because they'd rather have Ikuto the useless MC than anyone else? Of course that was certain to happen, but that should have been a pretty tempting offer, objectively...

Harem Logic.

HSDK
Not talk about this for a while ,
We on to a new arc and i hope it better than the last one the only good thing about was the master fight .
So far this new arc start of with a date lets see where things go from there .

Most fanservice per panel in an arc too. I hope that doesn't happen again but it's HSDK so...
 
duckroll bringing the sales-age into ManGAF. You have a problem man, a problem!

Yes.

However it's been far to long for an awesome Kimura or Aoki match. One of the most memorable matches of Ippo is definitely Kimura vs Mashiba.

Very true but it seems that it's gonna be a long time until we see either fight. Next up is Takamura for sure. He's hungry.
 

Thud

Member
Very true but it seems that it's gonna be a long time until we see either fight. Next up is Takamura for sure. He's hungry.

Like a beast and he will take them all. I think his toughest match will be in his last weight class, because every fighter packs a megaton punch in that class. So I think any match before the last, will be a quick KO.

Ippo and Itagaki are more likely to get more attention. More importantly the 1000th chapter is very close by. I wonder if an new anime will be green-lit.
 
Like a beast and he will take them all. I think his toughest match will be in his last weight class, because every fighter packs a megaton punch in that class. So I think any match before the last, will be a quick KO.

Ippo and Itagaki are more likely to get more attention. More importantly the 1000th chapter is very close by. I wonder if an new anime will be green-lit.

Oh god, hopefully not. Brian Hawk and David Eagle fights were some of the best in the manga. I want to see the latter animated as well.
 

survivor

Banned
Kissing Mars vol 1 End


So much yuri and crying

Yukari really changed a lot in the span of 4 chapters. Going from a selfish hateful girl to someone who cares and a nice person. I guess seeing Miki kissing a statue of Mars really changed her world views. dat power of yuri

I didn't like how Yukari stole Miki's innocence. So selfish, just let her have her first kiss with her boyfriend instead. For some reason I didn't see Miki not going any further with Yukari. I really thought they were going for a happy yuri couple ending.

The art was really nice and insanely hot most of the times. The only real problem with it was whenever you see someone smiling in the manga. Always looks so forced and weird.
 

Thud

Member
Oh god, hopefully not. Brian Hawk and David Eagle fights were some of the best in the manga. I want to see the latter animated as well.

Well it's not that weird, the previous animals went down very quickily. I want to see more of Ippo animated. Even if it's a special of movie. Dat quality. I think that's more plausible considering Mad House's busy schedule (HxH).

Thank god I decided to read the manga, waiting for an another season would have killed me.
 
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