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[codhand]

Romney: NAACP Booers were 'Freeloaders'


Keep making that grave you've been happily digging.

How can it the biggest tax in American history while also being the biggest government handout? This bill is the devil!

Romney stayed at Bain 3 years longer than he claims. 2002 not 1999

Oh, that three years.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Romney stayed at Bain 3 years longer than he claims. 2002 not 1999

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/boston-globe-romney-stayed-at-bain-3-years



Romney campaign says the story is false as Bain has said Romney left in 1999. So...do we believe these legal SEC filings or not.

The Audacity of Lies should be Romney Campaign's best selling book if he becomes President.

Or he can call the book, "Connections from my Father"

 

[teruterubozu]

Yeah, Kornheiser was awesome too. You pinko lefties need to stop pretending you watch sports. Stick to your poetry readings and lecture halls.

Us lefties like un-televised sports, like soccer and lacrosse.

 

[Eidan]

Romney: NAACP Booers were 'Freeloaders'


Keep making that grave you've been happily digging.

This dog-whistle bullshit is so obvious that it can barely be considered dog-whistle anymore.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Romney stayed at Bain 3 years longer than he claims. 2002 not 1999

I love how the biggest thing Obama has to work with is recycled Newt Gingrich stuff. I guess that's like the irony of who the original Birther support came from.

The Audacity of Lies should be Romney Campaign's best selling book if he becomes President.

I think the current President has been working on that one for a while.

 

[codhand]

Yeah, Kornheiser was awesome too. You pinko lefties need to stop pretending you watch sports. Stick to your poetry readings and lecture halls.

Kornheiser is a big pinko lefty.

Or he can call the book, "Connections from my Father"

LOl

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Oh boy.

 

[eznark]

Kornheiser is a big pinko lefty.

That's the difference between me up here on my high horse and you lowly Party plebes. I can look past a guys politics and like him.

 

[Big Baybee]

I don't think Mitt would have been booed that hard if he hadn't used the term "Obamacare".

 

[Gray Man]

Here is a question for PoliGaf, where I live I seem to be encountering a lot of people who are suspicious about Obamacare. They are pretty moderate people so I wouldn't call this taking a political side. They fear that this program will end up like Social Security and that the government will eventually try and do something like, take money out of it. Is there any merit to this fear?

 

[Kosmo]

Misogyny?
Over this joke?
Really?

Is that really different than "LOL, old people got confused and voted for Bush" jokes circa 2000?

Also please, let's not blow our outrage load over terrible insults like "having bad taste in men".

Exactly.

He was awesome on MNF.

Finally someone who agrees with me. His problem was that he was too smart for the gig - I would laugh at his ridiculous analogies like comparing a full back to "Hannibal riding his elephants over the Alps" which would crack me up, while my buddy would just sit there dumbfounded and say "What does that mean? That was stupid."

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Us lefties like un-televised sports, like soccer and lacrosse.

Soccer isn't a good one to use. lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs

It is also not uncommon to hear ultra-nationalist Croats chant, "Ubi Srbina", or "Kill the Serb" during football/soccer matches.

Besides I'm not even going with the obvious racist behavior in Europe, I just picked a less known one.



Also lacrosse always struck me as a far more upper class sport, at least in my anecdotal observations.

 

[Eidan]

Here is a question for PoliGaf, where I live I seem to be encountering a lot of people who are suspicious about Obamacare. They are pretty moderate people so I wouldn't call this taking a political side. They fear that this program will end up like Social Security and that the government will eventually try and do something like, take money out of it. Is there any merit to this fear?

Take money out of what exactly? I could be wrong, but there's nothing like the Social Security Trust Fund in the PPACA.

 

[Chichikov]

Here is a question for PoliGaf, where I live I seem to be encountering a lot of people who are suspicious about Obamacare. They are pretty moderate people so I wouldn't call this taking a political side. They fear that this program will end up like Social Security and that the government will eventually try and do something like, take money out of it. Is there any merit to this fear?

I don't really understand the concern here.
When you say "end up like social security", what do you mean?
A single payer?
Because that would mean it would end up like medicare.

Anyway, there's no government plan in this program, your money (outside the penalty for not buying insurance) goes to private companies.
I don't think that's a good thing, but that's a different issue.

 

[daedalius]

PLEASE tell me, I'm not late for this:

Romney sez: If they (the blacks) want more free stuff from the government, vote Obama.

I can't imagine why blah peopleAfrican Americans tend to be so hostile to Republicans.

Rombot sure does want every moderate to hate him, doesn't he?

This kind of language isn't getting him anywhere, I mean other than with hard-right conservatives, who praise the most bombastic and tone-deaf comments as genius.

Are we ever going to get back to a time where politics isn't a team sport? and these guys actually have substantive conversation with each other? (talking about the larger picture other than the presidential election) I mean, I guess while we have the house GOP flushing 50mil to vote to repeal ACA 33 times, we sure won't; absolutely idiotic.

 

[codhand]

Here is a question for PoliGaf, where I live I seem to be encountering a lot of people who are suspicious about Obamacare. They are pretty moderate people so I wouldn't call this taking a political side. They fear that this program will end up like Social Security and that the government will eventually try and do something like, take money out of it. Is there any merit to this fear?

Just ask them if they think health care is a Right or a Priviledge, if they say the latter, just shake your head and sigh audibly.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Just ask them if they think health care is a Right or a Priviledge, if they say the latter, just shake your head and sigh audibly.

Why is it a right? I'm asking for the basis in US law that suggests it's a right?

 

[codhand]

Why is it a right?

That's just how I feel about it man, siighhh.

Spoiler

Got it Gray Man?

 

[thefro]

Romney stayed at Bain 3 years longer than he claims. 2002 not 1999

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/boston-globe-romney-stayed-at-bain-3-years



Romney campaign says the story is false as Bain has said Romney left in 1999. Only he got paid 100k for being executive, continued investment earnings and formed new joint investments under Bain during that period. So...do we believe these legal SEC filings or not.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/romney-camp-boston-globes-bain-story-not-accurate

The Audacity of Lies should be Romney Campaign's best selling book if he becomes President.

Yep, he's toast once this blows up... either he was misleading investors on these SEC forms (illegal) or he lied on his financial disclosure form (illegal).

 

[Learn2read]

Here is a question for PoliGaf, where I live I seem to be encountering a lot of people who are suspicious about Obamacare. They are pretty moderate people so I wouldn't call this taking a political side. They fear that this program will end up like Social Security and that the government will eventually try and do something like, take money out of it. Is there any merit to this fear?

Just ask them if they think health care is a Right or a Priviledge, if they say the latter, just shake your head and sigh audibly.

No need to concede a non-existing point. There's no equilavent trust fund in PPACA for the gov't to take money out of.

 

[codhand]

Yep, he's toast once this blows up... either he was misleading investors on these SEC forms (illegal) or he lied on his financial disclosure form (illegal).

Romney lied, jobs died.

No need to concede a non-existing point. There's no equilavent trust fund in PPACA for the gov't to take money out of.

No I get your point, I really just think arguing the merits on a technical level is not gonna work, ask Obama. In 50 years I'm confident we will look at the entire debate as ridiculous.

To me the debate is most simply understood in the Right v Privilege frame.

 

[Chichikov]

Just ask them if they think health care is a Right or a Priviledge, if they say the latter, just shake your head and sigh audibly.

That's the wrong question.
The question is what's the best way to provide healthcare.

I don't think Obamacare is close to be that, but it's an improvement over the current situation.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's just how I feel about it man, siighhh.

Spoiler

Got it Gray Man?

So your telling him he should just ignore someone who asks for a legal basis? Once again what is the legal basis in US law that suggests Health Care is a right?

 

[RustyNails]

This dog-whistle bullshit is so obvious that it can barely be considered dog-whistle anymore.

Dog whistle? I think Republicans dropped that long time ago and have been using loudspeakers ever since.

 

[RoninChaos]

I refuse to believe anyone with a shred of intelligence could watch that speech and call say it was race baiting flame throwing. That's ludicrous.

As far as Obamacare, two weeks ago we were all in agreement that it's a good work for Obama to embrace!

That's not what I said. I said the description seemed pretty apt. Please read my post again.

 

[codhand]

what's the best way to provide healthcare.

Answer: Single-payer

Once again [where] is the legal basis in US law that suggests Health Care is a right?

Nowhere?

 

[The Technomancer]

Why is it a right? I'm asking for the basis in US law that suggests it's a right?

Does it need legally based at the present time for someone to believe that it is as a general principle? During the prohibition surely there were people who thought that the constitutional restriction of alcohol was an infringement of rights.

Also

So your telling him he should just ignore someone who asks for a legal basis? Once again what is the legal basis in US law that suggests Health Care is a right?

I don't think Gray Man mentioned any of his friends asking whether or not there was a legal basis to it. You brought that up yourself.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

I know it isn't a law, but the Declaration of Independence always struck me as a good basis with its life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness ending. What is life without health?

 

[Eidan]

Why is it a right? I'm asking for the basis in US law that suggests it's a right?

Do you believe a government has no obligation to concern itself with the health and well-being of its citizens?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nowhere?

So, it's an opinion based on no legal evidence whatsoever, correct?

 

[Terra Firma]

Most civilized countries know that healthcare is a right. The US Constitution is not the unchanging word of God. Amendments have been made to it for a reason.

If America is to move forward, it has to accept this fact sooner or later and then legislate based upon this basic right.

Also, I don't see how people can see Obamacare as even remotely similar to social security. Something similar to social security would be universal healthcare, where the money goes directly to the government, which then decides to allocate it towards healthcare. Obamacare sets mandates so you don't get to opt out but you choose who to give your money to to receive a service in return. That's about it, as far as the end-user is concerned.

 

[The Technomancer]

I know it isn't a law, but the Declaration of Independence always struck me as a good basis with its life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness ending. What is life without health?

Life and liberty taken together form a pretty good basis for an argument IMO. Because everyone requires healthcare having access to it is an essential part of liberty, since controlling access to it gives the controlling entities leverage. Its unlike just about any other service where a person also has the liberty to say "no, I don't like your terms, I won't use your service"

 

[Frank the Great]

healthcare is not a right. those in favor of single payer should not get sucked into that argument, it is a loser.

 

[eznark]

Here is a question for PoliGaf, where I live I seem to be encountering a lot of people who are suspicious about Obamacare. They are pretty moderate people so I wouldn't call this taking a political side. They fear that this program will end up like Social Security and that the government will eventually try and do something like, take money out of it. Is there any merit to this fear?

My non-ideologically driven concern with ObamaCare is that such a broad and industry encompassing piece of legislation is sure to have unintended, unpredictable and likely uncontrollable consequences. In that way I think it's fair to compare it to FDR's disastrous reign.

Ideologically; don't tell me what to do devil woman!

That's not what I said. I said the description seemed pretty apt. Please read my post again.

You said you agreed with his first paragraph. His first paragraph says the speech was incendiary and race baiting. Right?

 

[Plumbob]

Life and liberty taken together form a pretty good basis for an argument IMO. Because everyone requires healthcare having access to it is an essential part of liberty, since controlling access to it gives that party leverage.

Hunger is a health problem. What are you saying now, that we should feed the hungry? Pshaw

 

[eznark]

Without a brand new F-350 I cannot hope to adequately pursue happiness.

 

[The Technomancer]

So, it's an opinion based on no legal evidence whatsoever, correct?

Seriously? Are you really making the argument that before the Voting Rights Act was passed saying "voting is a right regardless of race" was a flawed opinion because it had no legal basis? We aren't allowed to think things are rights without legal precedent?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Does it need legally based at the present time for someone to believe that it is as a general principle?

To acts like they have true support beyond just an opinion expressed

During the prohibition surely there were people who thought that the constitutional restriction of alcohol was an infringement of rights.

Except that being part of the Constitution overruled hat argument, it had no legal basis. That doesn't mean you couldn't want to change it, but it was different than being denied something based on constitutional right. I'm just asking for legal or constitutional proof that health care is a fundamental right.

healthcare is not a right. those in favor of single payer should not get sucked into that argument, it is a loser.

Thank you!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Seriously? Are you really making the argument that before the Voting Rights Act was passed saying "voting is a right regardless of race" was a flawed opinion because it had no legal basis? We aren't allowed to think things are rights without legal precedent?

That was always the correct opinion, it was just obscured and denied via Poll Taxes, Literacy Tests, etc.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Without a brand new F-350 I cannot hope to adequately pursue happiness.

Now you're just being snarky. I said it wasn't a law.

 

[The Technomancer]

That was always the correct opinion, it was just obscured and denied via Poll Taxes, Literacy Tests, etc.

But "Healthcare is a right" isn't a correct opinion explicitly because of lack of legal basis. No other reason. The only reason you have presented for healthcare definitively not being a right is lack of legal basis.
Let me put it this way: if an amendment to the constitution was passed saying that healthcare is a right then would it now become a "correct" opinion?

EDIT: The voting rights act is the wrong example. I recognize that. The better example is the 15th amendment. Before the 15th amendment was "voting is a right" an incorrect opinion?

 

[eznark]

Now you're just being snarky. I said it wasn't a law.

Snark is my life. Stop trampling my Jefferson given rights.

 

[Gray Man]

Some great answers, thanks guys.

I wonder if any of the more republican states are ACTUALLY going to try not implementing Obama care, what would happen to them if say... they tried to fight it? I've heard and read some of those Governors just saying they would up and ignore the law lo.

 

[codhand]

healthcare is not a right. those in favor of single payer should not get sucked into that argument, it is a loser.

Thank you!

I think he meant a political loser, which I agree with, thus, we have a shitty system. I don't claim to be on the winning side, just the correct side.

 

[RoninChaos]

Romney's people are atrocious for letting him make that speech to that audience, unless their actual intention was to rile up their existing or extended racist base. The audience booed when he said Obamacare, not because they disagreed with his views on the subject, but because IT IS NOT CALLED FUCKING OBAMACARE. Using right wing dog whistles and buzz terms in that audience, which is understandably PROUD of the FIRST FUCKING GODDAMNED BLACK PRESIDENT is going to cause boos.

How could ANY speechwriter worth tuppence ha'penny not see this?

I think that's debatable, but I can't lie and say that what you mentioned was possible the goal. It seemed like it was a win win for Romney. He could show up, possibly get some supporters, OR, he could rile up his base even more by going into the "lion's den" and letting them know they weren't getting any "free stuff". And you are correct, he used buzzwords that are a cornerstone of ring wing radio and news, so that didn't help either.

I did see the speech, it was pretty offensive. If anything, it reinforces what I thought before, and that is Romney is COMPLETELY out of touch with everyone but the super rich that are like him. I feel like he lacks a certain amount of availability and I think his judgement can be called into question on a lot of topics simply because he's existed in that microcosm for his entire life and lacks the ability to relate to almost everyone because of it.

And come to think of it, his whole thing about "I don't change my message for the audience" is complete horse shit. How can he even say that when he's pandered to EVERYONE?

 

[Blergmeister]

But "Healthcare is a right" isn't a correct opinion explicitly because of lack of legal basis. No other reason. The only reason you have presented for healthcare definitively not being a right is lack of legal basis.

I wouldn't disagree with someone who said they had a right to Social Security or Medicare. Now, with the ACA the United States is close to Universal Care (every person has healthcare insurance). Now I would feel the very similarly about someone saying that Healthcare is a right in the United States. I would also agree that our system for distributing it still leaves much room for improvement.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

But "Healthcare is a right" isn't a correct opinion explicitly because of lack of legal basis.

When discussing the laws and obligations under them it is.

No other reason. The only reason you have presented for healthcare definitively not being a right is lack of legal basis.

At the moment I am only speaking towards the legal end.

Let me put it this way: if an amendment to the constitution was passed saying that healthcare is a right then would it now become a "correct" opinion?

Yes, it would have a legal basis then. It would be correct to argue it is a right, since it is recognized in the Constitution, it can also exist from statute, or SC rulings. To demand something as a right (a requirement), you need to have a legal basis.

 

[Effect]

Some great answers, thanks guys.

I wonder if any of the more republican states are ACTUALLY going to try not implementing Obama care, what would happen to them if say... they tried to fight it? I've heard and read some of those Governors just saying they would up and ignore the law lo.

They can try but there will come a point when insurance companies and hospitals will start getting angry because that's money they will not be getting. Republican governors will start pissing off the wrong people very soon by taking these stances. Then again they didn't care before when they tried to get the whole thing thrown out. Just makes what they're doing even more crazy. I'm not seeing the benefit for them to keep fighting this.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think he meant a political loser, which I agree with, thus, we have a shitty system. I don't claim to be on the winning side, just the correct side.

I think he meant it's a loser as a legal argument too.

 

[Eidan]

Some great answers, thanks guys.

I wonder if any of the more republican states are ACTUALLY going to try not implementing Obama care, what would happen to them if say... they tried to fight it? I've heard and read some of those Governors just saying they would up and ignore the law lo.

At the end of the day, if the states don't set up their health insurance exchanges (the main thrust of the ACA), then the federal government will do it for them.