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[MightyHedgehog]

Is the US dashboard that bad ads-wise?

I mean, it's not like I stare at it for hours. Load up the game, bye-bye ads.

You see them, for sure, but, unlike a screenshot being brought into a discussion, you don't have to stare at them.

 

[nel e nel]

Absolutely not. Any service can be hacked, without exception.

Well, sure, as the recent Yahoo/Gmail/linkedin incidents have shown us. And just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen. But are the security protocols on Live any better than PSN?

Or rather: why hasn't anyone hacked XBL yet?

 

[Speedymanic]

That MS have less studios and are spending much less money in having a good amount of first party titles than the competence, even if they are getting much more money, and this is not subjective, so the benefits of all this is not affecting the users that generate those benefits.

What is subjective is making a list war choosing the games, and I won't fall in.

I'd wait until next gen before making such claims. MS have opened a number of studios over the past few month/year and there are rumors circulating that they are developing a number of first party titles to launch on their new console.

Them not spending during this generation worked out better as first party titles weren't that much of a deciding factor. This gen has been about third party titles.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Not invulnerable to hacking, but it does have a longer and much more successful history than PSN in this regard.

Which really means nothing tbh, Sony had an entire campaign against it due to the OtherOS removal/Geohott/anonymous etc. The entire attack was masked behind a huge DDoS attack orchestrated by people butt-hurt about OtherOS/Geohot. No one knows if the same dedication wouldn't have been success on XBL.

 

[DangerousDave]

As far as we know no, but facts matter more then anything, PSN was hacked, big time, XBL was not, so everyone is gonna say XBL was/is/will be more secure. The FIFA thing shows more how Microsoft doesn't care about it's users since they didn't seem to do anything about it until it happened to Geoff Keighley and he made it public...

My XBL account was hacked, and the accounts of some friends, and with unique XBL passwords, but even with the PSN onslaught, I don't know anyone that lost his PSN account.

So maybe is simply that Sony gave a worst security impression.

 

[RoninChaos]

Live is getting to the point where I'm thinking next gen I may not pay for it. The ads bug me, the other services shoved in my face, etc.

I haven't paid for live in years because I won a bunch of live cards at my last job. The biggest reason I've kept it is because all my friends are on live and it's functionality compared to PSN is pretty amazing. PSN is fucking archaic in a log of ways.

With thays said, for next gen, I'm not sure if I'd keep paying for it if PSN stepped their game up and if the next Sony system was really strong. My gut says PSN won't be free next gen though. Sony sees how much money there is in charging people for online so I expect them to jump onto that train next gen. I hope it makes Microsoft jump up and offer more PSN line discounts though.

 

[Speedymanic]

And how does that "keeps the craziest ones that won't pay for it, off it"? You might not listen to them but they'll still exist.

Anyway, he was obviously being sarcastic.

It creates a bubble for him to game in? One that makes it appear as though there are no crazies?

 

[Ghizz]

Not wonder we've been getting dashboard updates pretty regularly..

 

[Speedymanic]

As far as we know no, but facts matter more then anything, PSN was hacked, big time, XBL was not, so everyone is gonna say XBL was/is/will be more secure. The FIFA thing shows more how Microsoft doesn't care about it's users since they didn't seem to do anything about it until it happened to Geoff Keighley and he made it public...

We've been over this so many times.

MS can't do anything if the breach isn't on their end. MS have gone above and beyond with regard to helping those affected by EA's shitty service. They've refunded everyone and in virtually all cases allowed those affected gamers to keep any and all content that was bought by those who illegally accessed their account.

This is more than any other company would do. This, to me shows that MS care a lot more about their customers than Sony or Valve or any other online gaming service provider. I'd even go so far as to say they are the Amazon of online gaming providers.

 

[Metalmurphy]

It creates a bubble for him to game in? One that makes it appear as though there are no crazies?

But doesn't actually keep the crazies off XBL, which was what he said. Why are you twisting it into another thing? The money barrier does not keep the crazies at bay. Period.

We've been over this so many times.

MS can't do anything if the breach isn't on their end. MS have gone above and beyond with regard to helping those affected by EA's shitty service. They've refunded everyone and in virtually all cases allowed those affected gamers to keep any and all content that was bought by those who illegally accessed their account.

After Geoff made it public things certainly started to go smoother for costumers, funny coincidence.

This is more than any other company would do.

LOL. That's what ANY company would do.

This, to me shows that MS care a lot more about their customers than Sony or Valve or any other online gaming service provider. I'd even go so far as to say they are the Amazon of online gaming providers.

rolleyes.gif

Anyway I'm done talking with you, after your fiasco in the other thread and now this one it's clear where you're coming from.

 

[mediapulp_wes]

Has anyone tried to watch TV, go to the cinema or rent a DVD recently? Adverts everywhere! Moaning about XBL containing them is a drop in the ocean.

 

[Speedymanic]

But doesn't actually keep the crazies off XBL, which was what he said. Why are you twisting it into another thing? The money barrier does not keep the crazies at bay. Period.

But it does, for him. He's gaming in his own little bubble. To him, the crazies don't exist. So in that sense his point is completely valid.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Which really means nothing tbh, Sony had an entire campaign against it due to the OtherOS removal/Geohott/anonymous etc. The entire attack was masked behind a huge DDoS attack orchestrated by people butt-hurt about OtherOS/Geohot. No one knows if the same dedication wouldn't have been success on XBL.

Sony did stir up the hives, but I find the notion that Micro$haft receives less-focused attempts than Sony hard to believe. Sony's problem was their security was flawed enough to get in. XBL hasn't suffered a breach or event that could be called catastrophic...not once in a ten-year run. That means something to me, as a person asked to compare security between given network histories.

Anyway, this is a well-traveled road that is entirely off-topic.

 

[Ramblin]

But doesn't actually keep the crazies off XBL, which was what he said. Why are you twisting it into another thing? The money barrier does not keep the crazies at bay. Period.



After Geoff made it public things certainly started to go smoother for costumers, funny coincidence.

LOL. That's what ANY company would do.

rolleyes.gif

Well I didn't say it kept all the crazies at bay (obviously I'm there) but it keeps the ones that don't want to pay for it off there (with the exception of the trial cards and periods, you little nitpickers)

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Microsoft should do a kickstarter so they don't have to bend the knee to advertisers.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Sony did stir up the hives, but I find the notion that Micro$haft receives less-focused attempts than Sony hard to believe. Sony's problem was their security was flawed enough to get in.

You do? After all that happened? The media, the anonymous gathering/videos, Geohott "save me" campaign? People mad about OtherOS? When has something similar happened to XBL?

XBL hasn't suffered a breach or event that could be called catastrophic...not once in a ten-year run. That means something to me, as person asked to compare security between given network histories.

Well yeah, that was exactly what I was saying... But also that it doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality of each security. But Sony will be forever stained by what happened.

 

[rpmurphy]

Has anyone tried to watch TV, go to the cinema or rent a DVD recently? Adverts everywhere! Moaning about XBL containing them is a drop in the ocean.

It's really annoying that movie discs tend to come with all that unskippable stuff. At least VHS tapes allowed you to fast forward through all of it.

 

[DangerousDave]

Has anyone tried to watch TV, go to the cinema or rent a DVD recently? Adverts everywhere! Moaning about XBL containing them is a drop in the ocean.

The issue is not that XBL has ads. The issue is that it's a paying service, with ads, and the compence, that is also free, don't have them or are easy to deactivate.

 

[RukusProvider]

Only reason I ever paid for gold is because I had to to play games online (which aren't even dedicated servers), not because I saw value in it.

You didn't have to, you chose to.

IMO there's no value in paying to access services like Netflix that you're already paying for separately or to play a game online that you just bought.

To you there isn't but I like being able to access all the different entertainment apps under one device. I'm more than willing to pay for that luxury.

I guess there's party chat? but that's still just a console version of TS/vent/mumble which you have to pay for for some strange reason.

Strange reason likely being it's not a service on other consoles, is a draw of the platform and thus monetized.

The LEAST they could do is offer good deals on stuff related games. But they don't.

Last I checked there are weekly sales. Whether they are on content you like or not is up to you.

 

[RukusProvider]

You do? After all that happened? The media, the anonymous gathering/videos, Geohott "save me" campaign? People mad about OtherOS? When has something similar happened to XBL?



Well yeah, that was exactly what I was saying... But also that it doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality of each security. But Sony will be forever stained by what happened.

Here's some in the field info. Sony was made aware of poor application threat detection in the security model as part of a vulnerability assessment but they chose to ride it out.

The hack happened and all of a sudden they ran out to F5 and starting buying their products like they were being handed out for free.

You could say they earned that stain themselves. I wonder how many people would sign to Internet services if they knew how poor some of these security models are.

 

[Meatvillain]

I know right? Just look at steam, keeps getting shitter by the year.

How many companies are Valve, though?

 

[grap3fruitman]

Has anyone tried to watch TV, go to the cinema or rent a DVD recently? Adverts everywhere! Moaning about XBL containing them is a drop in the ocean.

I can't find anything on XBL any more and as a result I'm either not using the console at all or, when I do, I'm not spending money on there since I can't find any content. I'll be passing on Microsoft's next console as a result.

 

[Speedymanic]

After Geoff made it public things certainly started to go smoother for costumers, funny coincidence.

Nope, things were improving before then, it was a case of happy coincidence.

LOL. That's what ANY company would do.

Any company would allow you keep illegally bought goods? yeah, sure.

rolleyes.gif

Good response.

Anyway I'm done talking with you, after your fiasco in the other thread and now this one it's clear where you're coming from.

How does what happened in another thread have any relevance here? Stop trying to divert the discussion or trying to strengthen your weakened position by drawing on events that have no bearing to the discussion at hand.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Here's some in the field info. Sony was made aware of poor application threat detection in the security model as part of a vulnerability assessment but they chose to ride it out.

The hack happened and all of a sudden they ran out to F5 and starting buying their products like they were being handed out for free.

You could say they earned that stain themselves. I wonder how many people would sign to Internet services if they knew how poor some of these security models are.

Sony doesn't do their own security, companies like Sony hire other companies to do such. And where did you get this "field info" anyway?

 

[Ramblin]

I can't find anything on XBL any more and as a result I'm either not using the console at all or, when I do, I'm not spending money on there since I can't find any content. I'll be passing on Microsoft's next console as a result.

You can't find any content? Games->Games Marketplace.

 

[RukusProvider]

Sony doesn't do their own security, companies like Sony hire other companies to do such. And where did you get this "field info" anyway?

It's what we do....but I'll rely on your own make believe for accuracy

 

[Metalmurphy]

It's what we do....

That doesn't tell me anything.

 

[Speedymanic]

You can't find any content? Games->Games Marketplace.

Or use bing search. A rather silly claim to make considering the plethora of options available.

 

[RukusProvider]

That doesn't tell me anything.

I'm not going to break NDA's to make MetalMurphy happy. I tried to give you some information on reality vs what you think happens but as usual you choose to bury your head into the sand. So have at it.

Still want to learn something? Go do research on what F5 does, how it could have helped Sony, why they went with F5 and how they're better off today. That's just a big name that easy to research on. The other products they also added are not as well known.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I'm not going to break NDA's to make MetalMurphy happy. I tried to give you some information on reality vs what you think happens but as usual you choose to bury your head into the sand. So have at it.

You didn't give me any information. You said "I know stuff". It's up to me to take your word for it or not, I don't since I don't know you.

During the press conference they said the hack was achieved through a known vulnerability, known to the "public" but unkown to Sony. Vulnerabilities are found and patched constantly and that is nothing out of the ordinary. But youre claiming someone made Sony aware of said vulnerably and chose to do nothing about it, that's a pretty bold claim to make without any proof.

 

[sleepykyo]

I can't find anything on XBL any more and as a result I'm either not using the console at all or, when I do, I'm not spending money on there since I can't find any content. I'll be passing on Microsoft's next console as a result.

You'll be back. They always come back.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I'd find the cable television analogy more convincing if Live were an ISP in addition to a pool of content. But it's not. I'm already paying for my own internet connection. Paying for cable TV gets you access to the content, but importantly includes access to their bandwidth and hardware as well.

It's what we do....but I'll rely on your own make believe for accuracy

You can't argue based on an appeal to your authority if you won't provide information. I'm not even saying I don't believe you. Just consider the perspective of the person you're arguing with.

 

[Suite Pee]

I don't expect to spend so much god damn money on a console and have my experience ruined with ads. I doubt I'll be getting a 720.

 

[number47]

Ill be the crazy one to ask. What ads? The little information in the boxes you usually ignore if you just go straight to play game?

Are there ads right before the game boots up?

Im not reading anything but people jealous of a corporation making money.

 

[Ramblin]

Ill be the crazy one to ask. What ads? The little information in the boxes you usually ignore if you just go straight to play game?

Are there ads right before the game boots up?

Im not reading anything but people jealous of a corporation making money.

Apparently the little ads in the corner are ruining the gaming experience and making it difficult to find things. And I'd just like to add, that if you find it that difficult to navigate, I hope you don't drive a car.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I understand that some Gold don't care about the cost, and that you simply ignore the ads so they don't bother you...

But all you should wonder, if MS is making so much money with Gold and ads, where the hell are my good first party games and why Sony have much more first party studios making good first party games than MS. All this money go straight to delay the CoD maps or Skyrim expansion in the other platforms instead of having a good first party lineup?

Apparently Xbox owners spend more time doing everything but play games, so why bother? Playstation is about gaming so that's why Sony focuses on making games while Microsoft is focusing on Cable TV, apps, Bing search engine, etc...

It's amazing how much the 360 has changed since it released. In the early goings it was all about gaming, while now the focus in on services. It's like when Nolan Bushnell left Atari and it was run by a bunch of suits who knew nothing about games. That's what Xbox has become to me.

 

[Ramblin]

Apparently Xbox owners spend more time doing everything but play games, so why bother? Playstation is about gaming so that's why Sony focuses on making games while Microsoft is focusing on Cable TV, apps, Bing search engine, etc...

It's amazing how much the 360 has changed since it released. In the early goings it was all about gaming, while now the focus in on services. It's like when Nolan Bushnell left Atari and it was run by a bunch of suits who knew nothing about games. That's what Xbox has become to me.

The only thing I do with the ps3 is netflix.

 

[DangerousDave]

Apparently Xbox owners spend more time doing everything but play games, so why bother? Playstation is about gaming so that's why Sony focuses on making games while Microsoft is focusing on Cable TV, apps, Bing search engine, etc...

It's amazing how much the 360 has changed since it released. In the early goings it was all about gaming, while now the focus in on services. It's like when Nolan Bushnell left Atari and it was run by a bunch of suits who knew nothing about games. That's what Xbox has become to me.

I think Sony also bet for a full multimedia experience. It has Cable TV, apps, google search engine, etc, but is open for everyone, not only for Gold members.

For example, in Europe, PS3 has VidZone, that is some kind of free unlimited Spotify but with videoclips instead of only music. And is more worthy than any of the apps that MS blocks under their Gold wall (at least in Europe).

 

[Wickerbasket]

The only thing I do with the ps3 is netflix.

I use mine to play blu-rays.

Edit: Lovefilm too, but the App for that is a piece of shit.

 

[Ramblin]

I use mine to play blu-rays.

I found mine in the recycling bin. The blu-ray no play.

 

[Speedymanic]

Apparently Xbox owners spend more time doing everything but play games, so why bother? Playstation is about gaming so that's why Sony focuses on making games while Microsoft is focusing on Cable TV, apps, Bing search engine, etc...

It's amazing how much the 360 has changed since it released. In the early goings it was all about gaming, while now the focus in on services. It's like when Nolan Bushnell left Atari and it was run by a bunch of suits who knew nothing about games. That's what Xbox has become to me.

Balderdash.

MS have released more core games than their competitors this year and if anything, they've continually shown that they fully understand that while gaming might not be the primary use for some users, they still need games to keep their console relevant and this is backed by by amazing weekly releases on XBLA as well as console exclusive games like The Witcher 2.

It's delusional to claim that MS of late know nothing about games and are essentially rudderless with no direction with regard to gaming. There's absolutely nothing to back up such an absurd claim.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

In part, I cancelled live and stopped using a 360 as my main gaming hub because of the ads.

Nintendo and Sony make money without stampeding my TV with ads nor charging for p2p gaming. I don't see how Microsoft can't do the same.

Wanna know something fun? Even on free newspapers that charge you 0$ for the product and finance themselves entirely with ads they use more room for actual content. That should tell you how insane the ads on the xbox dashboard are.

 

[DangerousDave]

Balderdash.

MS have released more core games than their competitors this year and if anything,

I don't have the count of the games released this year, but people is still waiting all the 2011 core games. At the end of the year, all was about Gears 3 and Forza, compared with the lot of first party retail games of the competence. So I don't know if what you say is true and those last 6 months there has been more 360 than PS3 first party, but it should be normal because nearly all the PS3 big first party studios released a game the last year, and MS only released 2 big titles.

 

[Speedymanic]

In part, I cancelled live and stopped using a 360 as my main gaming hub because of the ads.

Nintendo and Sony make money without stampeding my TV with ads nor charging for p2p gaming. I don't see how Microsoft can't do the same.

Wanna know something fun? Even on free newspapers that charge you 0$ for the product and finance themselves entirely with ads they use more room for actual content. That should tell you how insane the ads on the xbox dashboard are.

Are you claiming that both Sony's and Nintendo's online service is profitable enough for it be self sustaining?

And again with the hyperbole. There are two ads (currently) on the dashboard, with one often 'advertising' gaming related content, the other usually alternates between what you'd consider real ads or as mentioned, gaming related content.

The newspaper claim is ridiculous and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Ramblin]

Shoved in your face, paying to get your eyes, stampeding your tv...you guys are great. Don't get me wrong, I'm annoyed if the ads on my television run a little long, and I'll fast forward them if I've recorded whatever I'm watching, but I don't feel MS is wrestling me to the ground and beating me unconscious with ads.

 

[Speedymanic]

I don't have the count of the games released this year, but people is still waiting all the 2011 core games. At the end of the year, all was about Gears 3 and Forza, compared with the lot of first party retail games of the competence. So I don't know if what you say is true and those last 6 months there has been more 360 than PS3 first party, but it should be normal because nearly all the PS3 big first party studios released a game the last year, and MS only released 2 big titles.

His claim was that MS have lost their way with regards to games and are only focused on services, that doesn't hold to any kind of scrutiny.

First party titles are irrelevant, they no longer have the pull they once did, unless of course they happen to be Nintendo games.

 

[Unknown One]

Quite disappointed that there are posters that are ranting on Sony for not having invasive ads/charging for online play. Some gamers are really lost in gaming finances. I'm a consumer not a shareholder.

 

[Wickerbasket]

It's delusional to claim that MS of late know nothing about games and are essentially rudderless with no direction with regard to gaming. There's absolutely nothing to back up such an absurd claim.

They're relying on third parties to provide core gaming experiences though, experiences which can be had on other consoles. What did they have planned for release in 2012? Halo 4, Forza and a bunch of Kinect games. Exactly the same as they had for 2011.

 

[nel e nel]

It's amazing how much the 360 has changed since it released. In the early goings it was all about gaming, while now the focus in on services. It's like when Nolan Bushnell left Atari and it was run by a bunch of suits who knew nothing about games. That's what Xbox has become to me.

Granted I've only had my Xbox since 2008, but I've always felt that they were pushing the Xbox in the direction of an entertainment center that would be a hub for not just games, but music and TV/movies as well.

I thought convergence was where we are headed in general, technology wise?

 

[Speedymanic]

They're relying on third parties to provide core gaming experiences though, experiences which can be had on other consoles. What did they have planned for release in 2012? Halo 4, Forza and a bunch of Kinect games. Exactly the same as they had for 2011.

relying on third parties is a proven strategy and one that pays dividends for MS as all third parties (bar a very few) sell more on 360.

And unless I missed it, I couldn't play The Witcher 2 on PS3 or the Wii. It was a big console exclusive, and what about Minecraft. Is that available on any other console? Trials Evo? I could go on, 460 has played host to a lot of games that aren't available on other consoles, they've provided a better core gaming experience this year than Sony and that doesn't look like it'll be ending any time soon.

There was a Halo game last year? And the new Forza game is a massive departure from the old template of standard racing, it's a massive risk for MS and one very few companies would take with one of their premier titles.

And you bring up Kinect, what Kinect games are coming out this year bar the usual dance tripe, which is actually popular.