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[Speedymanic]

You're really reaching here when you could just admit that you have no idea how many people regularly use the PSN, how many accounts are active, and how MS determines what active means (has bought something? has logged in once? Is a sub account on a family account? etc)

Sony released a PR that "90%" of their accounts returned to the PSN after the hack, so it is just as likely that any accounts that returned can be considered as 'active' - I can't believe that having 6 accounts is in any way a normal thing for the PSN.

Even for the sake of argument, assuming every single PSN user has 2 accounts, thats still 35 million users vs 40 million which is a far cry from 'overwhemingly more'.

Of course 90& of those accounts returned as people wanted those free games. Each region had different games, I signed into all my accounts to download content from each region. Does that mean I actively use all of my accounts?

And it's not fair or even acceptable to assume that every user has just 2 accounts, even if it is for the sake of argument. Of my group of friends, 19 have four different PSN accounts. They all signed into all of them to get free content and to make sure those accounts would be ready if any betas/demos leaked on the Korean or Indian stores.

I'm sure a large percentage of people on this very forum also have more than 2 PSN accounts.So using Sony's figures is meaningless in any discussion regarding active online user base.

 

[RukusProvider]

Of course 90& of those accounts returned as people wanted those free games. Each region had different games, I signed into all my accounts to download content from each region. Does that mean I actively use all of my accounts?

And it's not fair or even acceptable to assume that every user has just 2 accounts, even if it is for the sake of argument. Of my group of friends, 19 have four different PSN accounts. They all signed into all of them to get free content and to make sure those accounts would be ready if any betas/demos leaked on the Korean or Indian stores.

I'm sure a large percentage of people on this very forum also have more than 2 PSN accounts.So using Sony's figures is meaningless in any discussion regarding active online user base.

The only time to hear any subscriptions figures from either side is when they are trying to boast and market their service. In that, you will always hear best case scenario number.

It's a pointless debate.

 

[iammeiam]

Sony released a PR that "90%" of their accounts returned to the PSN after the hack, so it is just as likely that any accounts that returned can be considered as 'active' - I can't believe that having 6 accounts is in any way a normal thing for the PSN.

Nah, Sony said that PSN activity post-hack was at 90% of what it was pre-hack, which is pretty meaningless without pre-hack data. That doesn't tell us how many accounts were actually active pre- or post-hack. The other problem is that an 'active' account isn't the same as an account being used to play online--I'm sure my account is considered active since my system logs in to PSN every time I turn it on, but I never use it to play anything.

That said, the problem is mostly that we have a semi-recent upper limit for how many XBOX gamers actually play online (that 12 million paying sub number--most of those probably game online, and they can't have more active online gaming accounts than Live subs, so) but absolutely no context for anything on PSN in terms of how many 'active accounts' actually translate into 'people playing multi over the network'.

So there's no way either side can win this argument, because we don't have actual comparable numbers between the systems.

(Also I wouldn't be surprised to see Live go free on the next XBOX just as a sales bullet point to push people to upgrade--game with your friends on their 360s for free!)

 

[Oppo]

You're comparing actual accounts where people pay money to free accounts. I have 6 accounts on my PS3, one of them is active but Sony counts all 6. That's flawed. I have 3 accounts on my 360, but MS only count the one that's active.

The current number for active XBL accounts is 40m. Note, that's active accounts. Not just accounts. So yeah, based on the info available to all via google and some extrapolation, it's pretty clear that people are overwhelmingly choosing to pay for gold compared to gaming for free on PS3.

How do you know how Sony counts "active" accounts vs MS? I'm curious. I've never seen that broken out.

Also, side question – would you be cool if there were a handful of ads in Windows 8 launch area when you booted it up?

 

[Speedymanic]

How do you know how Sony counts "active" accounts vs MS? I'm curious. I've never seen that broken out.

Also, side question – would you be cool if there were a handful of ads in Windows 8 launch area when you booted it up?

Their PR seems to counts all accounts. Not just active as MS PR seems to suggest. it could be playful wording on MS' part...

Would I mind? It depends. Are they promoting something that's related to the platform? if yes, I don't consider those ads so I wouldn't mind. Are they advertising Mountain Dew or Axe, etc, yes, I would mind. While I don't find those actual ads as annoying or intrusive as others, I would mind as they aren't promoting anything that's related to the platform.

So basically,

Promoting content that's of direct benefit to the platform and me = I fully support it and hope it grows/continues.

Advertising products that aren't of direct benefit to the platform or me = I'd mind, but would get over it.

 

[bj00rn_]

There is so much hidden agendas in this thread.. It's not about ms vs sony, it`s about consumers. If the shills and the haters left maybbe we could be able to send ms a better to the point message. Listen, i like the 360, its my main gaming platform, and i prefer xbox live over other similar services, but i'd like ms to know that ads do NOT belong in a device interface. It should be clean, simple and customizable.

 

[Oppo]

Their PR seems to counts all accounts. Not just active as MS PR seems to suggest. it could be playful wording on MS' part...

Ok. Not sure I agree as MS is quite good at specific wordings but I could see it.

Would I mind? It depends. Are they promoting something that's related to the platform? if yes, I don't consider those ads so I wouldn't mind. Are they advertising Mountain Dew or Axe, etc, yes, I would mind. While I don't find those actual ads as annoying or intrusive as others, I would mind as they aren't promoting anything that's related to the platform.

So basically,

Promoting content that's of direct benefit to the platform and me = I fully support it and hope it grows/continues.

Advertising products that aren't of direct benefit to the platform or me = I'd mind, but would get over it.

The reason I ask this hypothetical is that the crux of the matter seems to revolve aroun how intrusive the ads are, not how relevant or interesting. No one minds that you see ads in the respective Store areas, because the user has indicated that they are shopping, or at least browsing, by virtue of entering that area.

The Xbox dash ads are crazy-glued throughout the actual operating system, regardless. It doesn't care where you are really. This is by design. That's what bugs me. It like seeing ads on my phone home screen or my car dashboard. "I didn't ask for this."

I think MS could basically scale back the advertising a small bit and make a lot of people (especially Gold members, who rightly feel that they partly subsidize the service) much happier. Conversely, I think you'd agree, that were ads injected into Windows 8 at the base level like Live, the hue and cry over that move would be deafening.

 

[Sean]

BTW, although there are still ads, this years upcoming dashboard update seems to have some of the UI improvements people are asking for:


Games section now comes before Videos and TV sections:

And you can apparently pin stuff to your Home screen:

 

[watership]

BTW, although there are still ads, this years upcoming dashboard update seems to have some of the UI improvements people are asking for:


Games section now comes before Videos and TV sections:

And you can apparently pin stuff to your Home screen:

You know I noticed this during E3 and no one covered it or asked anyone at MS about the Dashboard redesign. It's like no one cares anymore.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

^ That's pretty cool actually.

 

[Uno Venova]

BTW, although there are still ads, this years upcoming dashboard update seems to have some of the UI improvements people are asking for:


Games section now comes before Videos and TV sections:

And you can apparently pin stuff to your Home screen:

About time, I'm glad they might be trying to fix the obvious.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

There is so much hidden agendas in this thread.. It's not about ms vs sony, it`s about consumers. If the shills and the haters left maybbe we could be able to send ms a better to the point message. Listen, i like the 360, its my main gaming platform, and i prefer xbox live over other similar services, but i'd like ms to know that ads do NOT belong in a device interface. It should be clean, simple and customizable.

MS makes lots of money on this as corporation whose legal obligation is to increase value of stock. You don't do that by stopping those things which make you money and increase your value to shareholders. It's unbelievably foolish to think that they would get rid of ads when they've turned out to be a solid source of revenue. Advertisements inform, period. Without them, you cannot get through the rest of the noise of our world to tell people about those products and services. Unless society changes greatly, you're never going to see the ads go away...especially since the traditional venue for them, television, has given way to a more nebulous and fragmented internet-based world where many can avoid them a great deal more easily. This means more effort will expended to identify more places and smarter ways to deliver them. They're going to be more pervasive as the population addressed grows.

XBL is a work-in-progress as it has evolved over the years, and MS has listened to some degree, partly due to loss in revenue and partly due to developer/publisher and user pressure. They will never go to the Blades emptiness, and I think it silly to believe that Sony (or Ninty) will stay away from ads in their future marketplaces. They need to sell their audience on things they have and the only way to tell them effectively is via ads. The ads will only increase as digital sales become a greater factor. I'd love for it to be as simple and clean as Steam, but expecting these proprietary corporate boxes to match a general purpose multiplatform marketplace is completely unrealistic.

I'm not saying this as an apologist or fan of the X360, I'm saying it because you're never going to change what works, only influence how it works. That isn't going to happen in a GAF thread because if it did, the force of so many posts bitching for years about the ads should have done it by now. The fact is, most people simply filter that shit out easily and it doesn't seem to cause them distress enough to start shrinking the XBL Gold membership or X360 sales, both of which have been steady if not growing over the longer term.

 

[EatinOlives]

I am not a corporate apologist...jesus

I think you're taking this a little too seriously. "laughed out of a topic"? More like, I think this is an inconsequential issue and don't see the point of getting up and arms about it

Again, I'm not defending MS at all. I'm just saying, don't like it, don't buy it. That's it. I think we can both agree on that. No one is forcing anyone to buy this stuff

Is there an ETA on when you'll stop using the "you're taking it too seriously" strawman? If these complaints were so insignificant and worthless you really shouldn't be spending this much time and effort trying to diffuse them. Honestly, you're just trying to dismiss these complaints by blowing them out of proportion and claiming we're "getting up in arms about it". We're not, we're just voicing our disagreement on the service.

I'm finding it hilarious that you're saying you're defending MS, then literally the next sentence is one of the most tired canned defensive responses in internet forums (don't like it, don't buy it). Suffice to say, nobody who uses that strawman argument is taken seriously, considering how avoiding a service doesn't magically mean you can't complain about it.

 

[see5harp]

Sweet. I really love the way pinning works in Windows 7 with applications and shortcuts.

 

[Ramblin]

Is there an ETA on when you'll stop using strawman? Suffice to say, nobody who uses that strawman argument is taken seriously

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[watership]

Sweet. I really love the way pinning works in Windows 7 with applications and shortcuts.

This will be more like the windows phone/windows 8 pinning, but will work the same.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Is there an ETA on when you'll stop using the "you're taking it too seriously" strawman? If these complaints were so insignificant and worthless you really shouldn't be spending this much time and effort trying to diffuse them. Honestly, you're just trying to dismiss these complaints by blowing them out of proportion and claiming we're "getting up in arms about it". We're not, we're just voicing our disagreement on the service.

I'm finding it hilarious that you're saying you're defending MS, then literally the next sentence is one of the most tired canned defensive responses in internet forums (don't like it, don't buy it). Suffice to say, nobody who uses that strawman argument is taken seriously, considering how avoiding a service doesn't magically mean you can't complain about it.

I don't like the ads either. That's why I don't have xbox live anymore

I just think threads/complaints like this are funny. People get upset at the tiniest things.

Also I really appreciate all of the anger and hyperbole, I hope you know I have about 0% invested in this debate

 

[enzo_gt]

You know I noticed this during E3 and no one covered it or asked anyone at MS about the Dashboard redesign. It's like no one cares anymore.

Yeah wow, I didn't even know there was another new Dashboard update coming this year. Definitely good news.

 

[8byte]

I don't like the ads either. That's why I don't have xbox live anymore

I just think threads/complaints like this are funny. People get upset at the tiniest things.

Also I really appreciate all of the anger and hyperbole, I hope you know I have about 0% invested in this debate

The problem is that you're confusing bewilderment and disappointment with "anger" and "hyperbole". People aren't angry, necessarily, that Microsoft makes so much money. They're simply disappointed that the user base is being sold to advertisers (both Gold and Silver) yet are still being taken for a ride with over priced membership fees.

Again, as a consumer it is pretty easy to see why this would create uncertainty and disappointment within the customer base. As a corporate apologist, maybe that would be a bit more difficult.

 

[Uno Venova]

I don't like the ads either. That's why I don't have xbox live anymore

I just think threads/complaints like this are funny. People get upset at the tiniest things.

Also I really appreciate all of the anger and hyperbole, I hope you know I have about 0% invested in this debate

You seem to have more than 0 percent invested since you seem really determined to stop people from talking bad about the ads.