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[perfectchaos007]

A couple of years ago, one of my professors mentioned that on average, a Chick-Fil-A store/unit brings in more sales than any other fast-food franchise. That's even operating on only a 6 day/week schedule. So, the boycotters have a large hill to climb.

I think a lot of people who eat there are able to wear a veil of ignorance. Almost no one likes the thought of a chicken being slaughtered to provide their meal, but the taste of the meat outweighs the desire to not eat it ( unless you're a part of the small % that choose to be vegetarian ). I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with Truett Cathy's donations and advocacy, but the product that Chick-Fil-A offers may outweigh personal morals.

 

[Valnen]

So you have no self-control? Good luck with that.

I have self control. I just have the realization that me eating there means nothing. It's not suppressing human rights as you people would try and force me to believe.

 

[ivysaur12]

I disagree. It is good stuff. Also it is different than fried chicken, where I think KFC, Church's, Popeyes: they are all about the sandwich. I don't even know who competes in the fast-food chicken area. Obviously all your majors have at least 1 sandwich, but I don't know anybody else that specializes.

I'm glad you think it's worth it to have your specialty chicken over some basic human dignity. Thanks, buddy.

I have self control. I just have the realization that me eating there means nothing. It's not suppressing human rights as you people would try and force me to believe.

You're supporting an organization that donates, consistently, to anti-gay causes. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[krypt0nian]

Oh how mysterious and ominous!

Not really. Just keeping track of which posters are walking pieces of human garbage.

"oh but my one chicken sammich doesn't mean much". Nope, only your fucking dignity.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

I'm glad you think it's worth it to have your specialty chicken over some basic human dignity. Thanks, buddy.

Maybe you should read my post just above that, and not be an asshole about it.

 

[Doctor West]

I have self control. I just have the realization that me eating there means nothing. It's not suppressing human rights as you people would try and force me to believe.

Well, this lead me to believe otherwise.

Yes, telling myself I can't have something I want is basically punishing myself.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Not really. Just keeping track of which posters are walking pieces of human garbage.

There had to be some reason you announced it. Certainly it wasn't because anyone was asking.

I don't side against your general moral stance, but making a list of people you're going to maintain a grudge against because of a fucking fast food restaurant is a little disturbing.

 

[ivysaur12]

Maybe you should read my post just above that, and not be an asshole about it.

Yeah, I did. And if you have any self-respect and support equality, you have a duty not to eat there. I'd say that's a far less asshole move than saying you support gay people and eating at Chick-Fil-A knowing where some of your money is going.

 

[Valnen]

Well, this lead me to believe otherwise.

I can't see why.

 

[krypt0nian]

There had to be some reason you announced it. Certainly it wasn't because anyone was asking.

I certainly don't side against your general moral stance, but making a list of people you're going to maintain a grudge against because of a fucking fast food restaurant is a little disturbing.

Yes, because I'm actually making a list...

"just because of a fucking fast food restaurant..."

I see that you minimize this too. The Haves usually do this to the Have Nots. Carry on.

 

[Doctor West]

I can't see why.

In that case, extra good luck with that!

 

[Valnen]

In that case, extra good luck with that!

You're saying that in order for me to have self control I have to not eat what I want because somehow it's morally wrong to give what will probably end up being less than a penny to an organization the votes for things like Prop 8.

I'm saying you're insane if you think I should be expected to do such a thing. And furthermore with your attitude I'm not sure I'd want to support any cause you stand up for. I support equal rights, but I also support being able to do whatever I want with my cash.

 

[krypt0nian]

You're saying that in order for me to have self control I have to not eat what I want because somehow it's morally wrong to give what will probably end up being less than a penny to an organization the votes for things like Prop 8.

I'm saying you're insane if you think I should be expected to do such a thing. And furthermore with your attitude I'm not sure I'd want to support any cause you stand up for.

You are directly supporting evil with your money, however little. Is that ok?

And now the cause is not worth supporting? Human rights not worth supporting? This is what you just said.

 

[ivysaur12]

You're saying that in order for me to have self control I have to not eat what I want because somehow it's morally wrong to give what will probably end up being less than a penny to an organization the votes for things like Prop 8.

I'm saying you're insane if you think I should be expected to do such a thing. And furthermore with your attitude I'm not sure I'd want to support any cause you stand up for.

It's morally wrong to support any organization that knowingly suppresses the rights of others. You know they do. You know where a portion of your money is going to. Some of it is going towards organizations that attempt to dehumanize gay people.

If you're wondering if that makes you an asshole, yes, it does. Sorry if that's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[krypt0nian]

Over privileged spoon fed children who want chicken more than equality.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Yeah, I did. And if you have any self-respect and support equality, you have a duty not to eat there. I'd say that's a far less asshole move than saying you support gay people and eating at Chick-Fil-A knowing where some of your money is going.

What if you compare someone who does nothing either way, who contributes nothing to pro-gay or anti-gay agendas, to a person who contributes a couple of dollars to anti-gay groups over the course of a decade of frequent Chick-Fil-A visits, but also contributes to pro-gay groups as well at a higher rate?

Is the latter person better, worse, or the same as the former person, being that they have a net positive contribution to homosexual civil rights? What does this say about you or me, whtonnage and will continue to unwittingly to contribute to conflicting causes through the thousands of corporations we patronize? How amazingly small does a contribution to a negative cause have to be before it no longer presents a moral delimma?

I realize that this proposes that some gray be added to the extremely dramatic black-and-white picture you're painting, I'm just trying to see if this alters your perspective or not.

 

[Valnen]

It's morally wrong to support any organization that knowingly suppresses the rights of others. You know they do. You know where a portion of your money is going to. Some of it is going towards organizations that attempt to dehumanize gay people.

If you're wondering if that makes you an asshole, yes, it does. Sorry if that's a tough pill to swallow.

Less than a penny. It's not going to change a thing if I don't eat there.

 

[krypt0nian]

Less than a penny. It's not going to change a thing if I don't eat there.

Morally corrupt.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that boycotts a restaurant for their anti-gay marriage stances, while typing on computers, phones and tablets basically made by slaves. Or wearing clothing made in sweatshops, etc. Apparently gays getting normalcy in the recognition of their relationships is more important than other basic human rights. I would have more respect for people if they stopped eating it because the chickens are physically abused from hatching to butchering...

 

[Valnen]

And now the cause is not worth supporting? Human rights not worth supporting? This is what you just said.

I won't support a cause if the other people supporting that cause actively try to make me miserable.

 

[krypt0nian]

I won't support a cause if the other people supporting that cause actively try to make me miserable.

So your feelings on a message board are worth more than human rights? Your parents failed us all.

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that boycotts a restaurant for their anti-gay marriage stances, while typing on computers, phones and tablets basically made by slaves. Or wearing clothing made in sweatshops, etc. Apparently gays getting normalcy in the recognition of their relationships is more important than other basic human rights. I would have more respect for people if they stopped eating it because the chickens are physically abused from hatching to butchering...

Good try. But it's not a zero sum. I see you've found a creative way to deny reality.

"why are you donating to animal rights? You didn't donate to cancer research!"

 

[Emitan]

I won't support a cause if the other people supporting that cause actively try to make me miserable.

You don't support gay rights because someone called you a bad name on the Internet?

 

[ivysaur12]

What if you compare someone who does nothing either way, who contributes nothing to pro-gay or anti-gay agendas, to a person who contributes a couple of dollars to anti-gay groups over the course of a decade of frequent Chick-Fil-A visits, but also contributes to pro-gay groups as well at a higher rate?

Is the latter person better, worse, or the same as the former person, being that they have a net positive contribution to homosexual civil rights?

I realize that this proposes that some gray be added to the extremely dramatic black-and-white picture you're painting, I'm just trying to see if this alters your perspective or not.

It's not about how much or how little. If you know that any of your money is going to anti-gay organizations by going to certain places like Chick-Fil-A, that's morally wrong.

Do you support equal rights? Then don't fucking go to Chick-Fil-A. It's not a morally gray question, or one worthy of a silly thought experiment.

 

[Doctor West]

You're saying that in order for me to have self control I have to not eat what I want because somehow it's morally wrong to give what will probably end up being less than a penny to an organization the votes for things like Prop 8.

I'm saying you're insane if you think I should be expected to do such a thing. And furthermore with your attitude I'm not sure I'd want to support any cause you stand up for.

LOL, you obviously only care about yourself and already said whatever you do won't make a difference, so why bother. As for the self-control, you said that denying yourself something that you want is torture. That leads me to believe that you never deny yourself things that you want, thus no self control...unless you like torturing yourself.

And you're right, my attitude about you valuing a chicken sandwich over human rights is a fantastic reason to care even less than you did before.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Yeah, I did. And if you have any self-respect and support equality, you have a duty not to eat there. I'd say that's a far less asshole move than saying you support gay people and eating at Chick-Fil-A knowing where some of your money is going.

Your previous post either indicates that you didn't or didn't make the connection before you posted. You certainly aren't going to convince me of the point, and based on your posting, I don't think I will convince you either.

I am simply unwilling to enforce a moral obligation or a duty on somebody. I'm not advocating a relativistic, they are entitled to their own opinion and it is just as good thing. I am unambiguously saying that Chick Fil-A is in the wrong.

I'm just not willing to say that you are an asshole if you don't boycott them, or as in my case, you do but don't judge everyone else for not choosing to do so.

I am only addressing this from a human rights position, as it currently has no effect on my day-to-day life. If it personally affected me, or people I know it is possible I might feel more like you do, but I doubt it.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that boycotts a restaurant for their anti-gay marriage stances, while typing on computers, phones and tablets basically made by slaves. Apparently gays getting normalcy in the recognition is more important than other basic human rights. I would have more respect for people if they stopped eating it because the chickens are physically abused from hatching to butchering...

Stupakapow addressed this very well a few pages back. You are not comparing two things that are comparable.

It's pretty reductionist to assume that companies have the same control over third-world labour conditions as they do over the values they actually espouse whole-heartedly. The Chinese labour problem is very complicated and there's not going to be an overnight solution. It's not as easy as multiplying wages by ten overnight.

But even then, let us imagine that Acer and ASUS made identical parts and ASUS proudly used amputee orphan slave labour and Acer paid employees a fair wage and supported development and social justice causes... You better believe I'd pick Acer. That's the situation here. None of their competitors (except maybe In-n-Out) would say anything like this or spend money on causes like this.

I choose to buy products and services from companies that most closely align with my moral compass. Sometimes that means the lesser of evils, but in the case of Chik-Fil-A, it's a pretty cut and dried situation. They advocate with words and dollars to prevent millions of Americans from having equal rights. I find that reprehensible, and choose not to give them my business. I make similar decisions whenever I learn of a company doing anything similar.

Why is that hard to take seriously?

 

[ivysaur12]

Your previous post either indicates that you didn't or didn't make the connection before you posted. You certainly aren't going to convince me of the point, and based on your posting, I don't think I will convince you either.

I am simply unwilling to enforce a moral obligation or a duty on somebody. I'm not advocating a relativistic, they are entitled to their own opinion and it is just as good thing. I am unambiguously saying that Chick Fil-A is in the wrong.

I'm just not willing to say that you are an asshole if you don't boycott them, or as in my case, you do but don't judge everyone else for not choosing to do so.

I am only addressing this from a human rights position, as it currently has no effect on my day-to-day life. If it personally affected me, or people I know it is possible I might feel more like you do, but I doubt it.

You absolutely have a moral duty. And yes, I absolutely have a right to judge those who are willingly go to a fast food restaurant after knowing where their money goes.

 

[Valnen]

As for the self-control, you said that denying yourself something that you want is torture.

No, I said it was self punishment. That's not torture. Maybe you should actually read what I say.

That leads me to believe that you never deny yourself things that you want, thus no self control...unless you like torturing yourself.

I deny myself things when I have good reason to.

 

[Emitan]

No, I said it was self punishment. That's not torture. Maybe you should actually read what I say.

I deny myself things when I have good reason to.

Human rights just aren't a good reason I guess...

 

[krypt0nian]

Your previous post either indicates that you didn't or didn't make the connection before you posted. You certainly aren't going to convince me of the point, and based on your posting, I don't think I will convince you either.

I am simply unwilling to enforce a moral obligation or a duty on somebody. I'm not advocating a relativistic, they are entitled to their own opinion and it is just as good thing. I am unambiguously saying that Chick Fil-A is in the wrong.

I'm just not willing to say that you are an asshole if you don't boycott them, or as in my case, you do but don't judge everyone else for not choosing to do so.

I am only addressing this from a human rights position, as it currently has no effect on my day-to-day life. If it personally affected me, or people I know it is possible I might feel more like you do, but I doubt it.

That would have been an awesome attitude for the North to take in the Civil War... Right?

Human rights just aren't a good reason I guess...

Forget it. He's lost. He said he wouldn't support human rights because someone was mean to him on a message board. What could you say to him to get through the selfish nature?

 

[ivysaur12]

No, I said it was self punishment. That's not torture. Maybe you should actually read what I say.

I deny myself things when I have good reason to.

It's fast food chicken, not a course in Jung's hierarchy of needs.

 

[Doctor West]

No, I said it was self punishment. That's not torture. Maybe you should actually read what I say.

I deny myself things when I have good reason to.

True, you did say punishment, but it's the same concept and doesn't change my opinion. And human rights is not a good enough reason? What is a good reason then?

I'll let you have the last word since this is obviously going nowhere.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

You absolutely have a moral duty. And yes, I absolutely have a right to judge those who are willingly go to a fast food restaurant after knowing where their money goes.

I didn't say you don't have a right to judge. I said I choose not to. I'll compromise a bit, and I will say that I will judge a person negatively who eats at Chick Fil-A because of their policies, rather than in spite of or in ignorance of. And we are just disagreeing in circles on the first part.

It's fast food chicken, not a course in Jung's hierarchy of needs.

Then why does it amount to a moral duty? Simply because the value of it is converted into money?

 

[Vermillion]

Tragedy of the commons. That and some bystander effect. We assume someone else will take care of it, but that line of thought takes thwle place of a limited resource... everyone can't think the same way.

 

[jaxword]

I won't support a cause if the other people supporting that cause actively try to make me miserable.

I'm straight and I think you're being a terrible person.

When are you going to start saying straight people are sub-class humans?

 

[Valnen]

Human rights just aren't a good reason I guess...

My purchases aren't affecting human rights.

 

[krypt0nian]

My purchases aren't affecting human rights.

This isn't debatable. It's a done deal.

 

[Valnen]

This isn't debatable.

Yes it is. Less than a penny isn't going to change anything and you damn well know it.

 

[LaserBuddha]

It's not about how much or how little. If you know that any of your money is going to anti-gay organizations by going to certain places like Chick-Fil-A, that's morally wrong.

Do you support equal rights? Then don't fucking go to Chick-Fil-A. It's not a morally gray question, or one worthy of a silly thought experiment.

It's not a silly thought experiment. It's challenging your assertion that there are only moral absolutes. Can you answer the question? Because i asked which person was better (or worse) when it comes to their moral standing on homosexual rights. I'm trying to get you to apply your extremely simple logic to a complicated reality. I noticed you completely ignored my other questions in that post so I won't press them further.

Yes, because I'm actually making a list...

It's one thing to deny something, it's another to be sarcastic about when you said in plain English that you were doing that.

I see that you minimize this too. The Haves usually do this to the Have Nots. Carry on.

Is this supposed to mean something?

 

[AlteredBeast]

Good try. But it's not a zero sum. I see you've found a creative way to deny reality.

"why are you donating to animal rights? You didn't donate to cancer research!"

You just proved my point, though. You are willing to make exceptions for products you enjoy, but are harping on others for doing the same. Don't you think children being forced to work in hot, dangerous textile mills is disgusting? Check the tag on your shirt, just because Michael Jordan doesn't say, "i love the fact that we at Hanes can pay 3rd world countries pennies on the dollar in dangerous factories." doesn't make it any less disgusting. CFA's brazen attitude is ridiculous as it is refreshing. I wholeheartedly if people don't want to eat there after hearing about their political leanings, but people are laughable in their attempts to compartmentalize their contempt.

 

[Emitan]

My purchases aren't affecting human rights.

You give money to a company that uses it deny me rights that you have access to. What is that called?

 

[krypt0nian]

Yes it is. Less than a penny isn't going to change anything and you damn well know it.

This isn't debatable. You're corrupt.

You just proved my point, though. You are willing to make exceptions for products you enjoy, but are harping on others for doing the same. Don't you think children being forced to work in hot, dangerous textile mills is disgusting? Check the tag on your shirt, just because Michael Jordan doesn't say, "i love the fact that we at Hanes can pay 3rd world countries pennies on the dollar in dangerous factories." doesn't make it any less disgusting. CFA's brazen attitude is ridiculous as it is refreshing. I wholeheartedly if people don't want to eat there after hearing about their political leanings, but people are laughable in their attempts to compartmentalize their contempt.

Nonsense. Continue on with your false equivelencies if it makes you feel good about it. Reveals much.

 

[Valnen]

You give money to a company that uses it deny me rights that you have access to. What is that called?

Less than a penny isn't affecting anything. I tried voting against Prop 8. That was more meaningful than less than a penny.

 

[krypt0nian]

Less than a penny isn't affecting anything. I tried voting against Prop 8. That was more meaningful than less than a penny.

Corrupt.

.
It's one thing to deny something, it's another to be sarcastic about when you said in plain English that you were doing that.

wow...wow...

 

[Acerac]

Yes it is. Less than a penny isn't going to change anything and you damn well know it.

How many people have said this in this thread thusfar? One by one you add up you know.

 

[EYEL1NER]

If it personally affected me, or people I know it is possible I might feel more like you do, but I doubt it.

Maybe you might if it affected you, but then again there are gays out there who don't give a fuck either.

 

[Valnen]

This isn't debatable. You're corrupt.

Oh, so we're namecalling now. That's mature.

 

[Emitan]

What is the dollar value when your money starts to affect things? How much money is one allowed to give to bigots before they are a bad person?

 

[GhaleonEB]

You just proved my point, though. You are willing to make exceptions for products you enjoy, but are harping on others for doing the same. Don't you think children being forced to work in hot, dangerous textile mills is disgusting? Check the tag on your shirt, just because Michael Jordan doesn't say, "i love the fact that we at Hanes can pay 3rd world countries pennies on the dollar in dangerous factories." doesn't make it any less disgusting. CFA's brazen attitude is ridiculous as it is refreshing. I wholeheartedly if people don't want to eat there after hearing about their political leanings, but people are laughable in their attempts to compartmentalize their contempt.

I want to once again draw you to Stump's post. I think he addressed this flawed line of reasoning as well as any.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40055544#post40055544

 

[AlteredBeast]

Stupakapow addressed this very well a few pages back. You are not comparing two things that are comparable.


I choose to buy products and services from companies that most closely align with my moral compass. Sometimes that means the lesser of evils, but in the case of Chik-Fil-A, it's a pretty cut and dried situation. They advocate with words and dollars to prevent millions of Americans from having equal rights. I find that reprehensible, and choose not to give them my business. I make similar decisions whenever I learn of a company doing anything similar.

Why is that hard to take seriously?

I don't disagree with what you or Stup posted, but I still find it terrible that we as members of the human race allow ourselves to be duped and corralled into choosing the lesser of two evils...

That makes us no better than the person saying chicken is more important than the happiness of gay people.