Aaron Strife
Banned
As were Heroes and 06.
I'm sure if they'd swapped Knuckles for Werehog, gave Tails some dumb gameplay idea (not tornado oh god) and called it Sonic Adventure 3 everyone would've been cool.
What are your issues with Sonic?
- Thread starter Kokonoe
- Start date
I'm sure if they'd swapped Knuckles for Werehog, gave Tails some dumb gameplay idea (not tornado oh god) and called it Sonic Adventure 3 everyone would've been cool.
Nocturnowl
Member
I still like to think that Sonic 2006 was in a way SA3, the heavy plot based approach, multiple characters, a hub area, seems like the ticket to me.
Though I could just be saying that because I really don't want SA3 and would like to use this as flimsy evidence against it returning.
I will gladly take more games in the style of Colours and Generations.
Though I could just be saying that because I really don't want SA3 and would like to use this as flimsy evidence against it returning.
I will gladly take more games in the style of Colours and Generations.
Nocturnowl
Member
Well damn I can't counter that, drat and double drat!
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
If Werehog were Knuckles, faster and had better starting balance, it would have been better to endure. It did nothing but muck around with the pacing and were lengthy and tedious.
The levels did have some kickass music, though. It's just too bad that you couldn't really hear it often outside of the battle theme.
tiggerkiddo
Member
My issues with Sonic are simple, I just don't care much for the transition from 2D games to 3D ones. I have played Generations and I enjoyed it quite a bit but that's about the only Sonic game with 3D that I actually liked. I haven't played Colors though I suppose I'll give it a shot since it's so well regarded. When I say I prefer 2D, I have played almost all of the 2D offerings like the Advance Series, the Rush Series...I tried Colors on the DS but didn't care much for the look of it...I think I was getting tired of the Rush look and I might give the portable Generations game a shot if I can find it cheap. The Adventure games were nice but I played them once or twice and was done with them after that. As long as they pump out good 2D Sonic games, I'll still play them.
Professor Beef
Banned
I begrudgingly agree.
The characters seem like they've devolved into parodies of their original selves. Robotnik went from this somewhat detached, intimidating villain to a complete buffoon and goofball. Knuckles went from a hothead to a complacent moron. Tails could probably come off as intelligent or at least a modest counterpart to Robotnik in the mechanic/genius department if they tried. Modern Sonic seems like this tasteless, overblown revision of the original - he's the worst offender of them all IMO. He seems like such a poser.
The overly childish presentation in Colors/Generations kills it for me as bad as the Adventure games did with their over-the-top stories. I never really watched Sonic X, but it seems like they lifted that vibe heavily in Colors/Generations. The old Sonic games (1-3K, CD) fell in this nice middle ground that Sega can't seem to find whatsoever anymore. If anything, the older games (especially 1 and CD) used to remind me of the Twilight Zone/"beyond section" (heh)/etc
I'm much more interested in talking about the gameplay of the series, but I have to get my thoughts together first. The characters/story/whatever stuck out to me the most reading through the thread for the first time though.
The overly childish presentation in Colors/Generations kills it for me as bad as the Adventure games did with their over-the-top stories. I never really watched Sonic X, but it seems like they lifted that vibe heavily in Colors/Generations. The old Sonic games (1-3K, CD) fell in this nice middle ground that Sega can't seem to find whatsoever anymore. If anything, the older games (especially 1 and CD) used to remind me of the Twilight Zone/"beyond section" (heh)/etc
I'm much more interested in talking about the gameplay of the series, but I have to get my thoughts together first. The characters/story/whatever stuck out to me the most reading through the thread for the first time though.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I see where you're coming from, but Sonic is a series aimed at children these days, so,,
Nocturnowl
Member
these days? when was it not aimed at children?
Aside from Shadow the Hedgehog of course.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I don't think the old 16-bit games were aimed squarely at children, but to a combined demographic of children and teenagers. The Adventure games introduced assy epic plots and Sonic's 'EXTREEEEEEME' personality and looks, probably as an attempt to capture more of the young teenager market in addition to the children's market. With the Storybook series and Colours/Generations Sega seem to be focusing mostly on the kid's market.
chemicals
Member
I can actually use a Sonic game to illustrate my "deal" with the franchise and that game is Sonic Unleashed. The demo was a blast and had real brainless arcade-ish gameplay and my kids loved it... so we bought the game.. big mistake. You can't even just crank it up and play the few fun levels.. you have the hub-world and stupid NPC's to deal with - and then the horrible sonic-wolf fighting levels.
They just don't seem to remember why we all loved Sonic in the first place (Sonic 2 and CD are my faves).
They just don't seem to remember why we all loved Sonic in the first place (Sonic 2 and CD are my faves).
Nocturnowl
Member
I see what you mean with this angle, though to me it just seems like SEGA are reeling it back to pre adventure style with the more kids focused titles, though I say this as someone who was a kid when the 16 bit games came out and there were the various cartoon series as well on top of that, aside from the whole attitude thing Sonic always felt like it was for kids to me, or maybe at least kids who wanted to feel cooler than those kiddy Mario fans!
Basically Adventure series/Shadow/2006 seem like the outliers here, possibly capitalizing on the 16 bit kids getting older? Actually I hope this isn't a trend or we'll end up back there again!
3D Sonic games are universally trash.
2D Sonic games are either too different, not different enough, or filled with shitty friends.
It's really sad when you realize Sega made two great 3D Sonic games, and they weren't even Sonic games.
Bananas = Rings
Monkeys in balls = Sonic and friends
Crazy face-paced stages = crazy fast-paced stages
The amount of work it would have taken to turn SMB into Sonic is minimal.
Sadly, Sega milked SMB to death in about 2 hours. They even pumped the games full of shitty friends.
2D Sonic games are either too different, not different enough, or filled with shitty friends.
It's really sad when you realize Sega made two great 3D Sonic games, and they weren't even Sonic games.
Bananas = Rings
Monkeys in balls = Sonic and friends
Crazy face-paced stages = crazy fast-paced stages
The amount of work it would have taken to turn SMB into Sonic is minimal.
Sadly, Sega milked SMB to death in about 2 hours. They even pumped the games full of shitty friends.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I was 7 back when Sonic 1 was released in 1991, and grew up with the franchise into my teenage years. The Sonic games never felt quite as.. how to put it.. kid-focused as Mario*, but aimed at a wider demographic that included both children and teenagers, while the Sonic cartoons and comics were aimed more directly at children (especially Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, which I find to be just cringeworthy as an adult).
And dear God, I hope the Adventure/Heroes/Shadow/06 shit stays dead.
* not saying 'lol Mario = kiddy shit trolol', as the Mario games can be enjoyed by all ages, but Mario had a somewhat more cutesy visual style to it. Plus Mario was a fat, slow plumber and obviously not as cool as Sonic
My biggest issue with Sonic has been - like Goldenroad said - the conflict is has between speed and exploration/platforming. Whenever I'm flying through a level, while it looks cool, all I can think of is, "Damn, I'm probably missing a ton of items/rings." On the flipside, when I'm going slow and exploring levels, it's like, "I *really* want to be going fast right now." It's weird and kinda hard to explain, but there it is. It was better early on, but as stages got longer and more vertical as well, I just felt overwhelmed by it all.
3D Sonic games are universally trash.
2D Sonic games are either too different, not different enough, or filled with shitty friends.
It's really sad when you realize Sega made two great 3D Sonic games, and they weren't even Sonic games.
Bananas = Rings
Monkeys in balls = Sonic and friends
Crazy face-paced stages = crazy fast-paced stages
The amount of work it would have taken to turn SMB into Sonic is minimal.
Sadly, Sega milked SMB to death in about 2 hours. They even pumped the games full of shitty friends.
I always felt with a few tweaks, Jet Set Radio Future would be a good blueprint for a 3D Sonic game. The way you use your momentum to traverse to some of the graffiti souls was rad
I know a lot of Sonic fans dislike Sonic Adventure and its sequel(s), but I cannot express how much damn fun my best friend and I had playing the split-screen multiplayer for Sonic Adventure 2. Granted we would flip a coin to decide who got to play Sonic, since neither one of us wanted to play Shadow, it was still a blast.
Seeing as I'm not a long-time Sonic fan and Sonic Adventure 2 was really the last Sonic game I ever tried, I don't really have any specific needs from the franchise. Although I keep getting the impression that i should at least give Generations a shot.
Seeing as I'm not a long-time Sonic fan and Sonic Adventure 2 was really the last Sonic game I ever tried, I don't really have any specific needs from the franchise. Although I keep getting the impression that i should at least give Generations a shot.
Nocturnowl
Member
I was 7 back when Sonic 1 was released in 1991, and grew up with the franchise into my teenage years. The Sonic games never felt quite as.. how to put it.. kid-focused as Mario*, but aimed at a wider demographic that included both children and teenagers, while the Sonic cartoons and comics were aimed more directly at children (especially Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, which I find to be just cringeworthy as an adult).
And dear God, I hope the Adventure/Heroes/Shadow/06 shit stays dead.
* not saying 'lol Mario = kiddy shit trolol', as the Mario games can be enjoyed by all ages, but Mario had a somewhat more cutesy visual style to it. Plus Mario was a fat, slow plumber and obviously not as cool as Sonic
Well you've got the better age to work this from, the age of the Sonic series itself almost encroaches on my own.
Fun fact: I did initially view Mario as some fat plumber who wasn't very cool at all! Judging him from the cover of the SMW cartridge, then I actually played it and all was forgiven.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
You should've played the vastly superior SMB3 instead, since SMW is just a mediocre SMB3 rehash anyway. HEY-OH!
Nocturnowl
Member
Is it odd that I figured my specific mention of World would draw some sort of remark out of you? but I certainly did play SMB3, my initial owned game console history goes Master System, NES, N64, yeah there's quite a leap there.
This also means that for me Sonic 1 on the MS is the real Sonic 1! Sonic 2 MS not so much.
tearsofash
Member
[Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?]
PC and 3DS
Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
Only on PC. The 3DS version was...
Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
No. Its hard to convince me to buy wii games.
I don't like Sonic's friends being so hokey, and I don't like Dimps method of handling jump physics.
Jumping and sometimes randomly hitting an enemy while running is the only thing I didn't like about Sonic 4 Episode I and II
PC and 3DS
Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
Only on PC. The 3DS version was...
Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
No. Its hard to convince me to buy wii games.
I don't like Sonic's friends being so hokey, and I don't like Dimps method of handling jump physics.
Jumping and sometimes randomly hitting an enemy while running is the only thing I didn't like about Sonic 4 Episode I and II
This sort of nonsense has thankfully since been removed from the series at long last (hopefully for good). They don't even open with cutscenes any more, it's "press start" -> Zone 1, Act 1.
Cyberquake
Member
Well... the insane amount of bottomless pits Sonic Team started to include in each Sonic game since Sonic Adventure is my main reason of frustration. That and the gameplay never felt quite right in their 3D games (haven't tried Generations and Colours yet).
Even their 2D games, like both Sonic Rush, they emphasize too much the "roller coaster" sections, instead of the good platforming level design.
And I don't know if it's because we grow up eventually, but the dialogue in their latest games is incredibly childish that annoys me as hell. I just finished Sonic Rush Adventure on my DS and I was 1 step away from throwing myself out an abyss because of that Marine character...
So for me it's really the mix of all those factors. Mario also has childish dialogues (but not as cheesy) but the awesome gameplay really makes up for that. Oh well, and I still have Sonic Heroes to finish on my Gamecube, as well as Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed on my PS2... still building up the courage.
Even their 2D games, like both Sonic Rush, they emphasize too much the "roller coaster" sections, instead of the good platforming level design.
And I don't know if it's because we grow up eventually, but the dialogue in their latest games is incredibly childish that annoys me as hell. I just finished Sonic Rush Adventure on my DS and I was 1 step away from throwing myself out an abyss because of that Marine character...
So for me it's really the mix of all those factors. Mario also has childish dialogues (but not as cheesy) but the awesome gameplay really makes up for that. Oh well, and I still have Sonic Heroes to finish on my Gamecube, as well as Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed on my PS2... still building up the courage.
I came for this clip and was not disappointed. You are awesome.
Wellllllll, Sonic Colors actually made me start clicking on Sonic threads, so there's that.
I think Sonic 1 and whatever Game Gear Sonic game I had are decent. Sonic 2, 3, and Knuckles are good, as are most of the GBA/DS handheld titles. I think Sonic Colors is great, and Generations is slightly below Colors for me.
One of the reasons I disliked Sonic growing up is because I felt like you'd need to put in a lot of effort to get the most out of it. You'd have to memorize stages since you're moving so fast and experiment to find the best way through things. It was very different than most other platformers I played where obstacles would be right in front of you and plain to see. The satisfaction in Sonic wasn't surviving--it was the rush you got from performing flawlessly. I didn't find that type of play fun until later on. I much preferred traditional, weightier platformers like SMB3 (and the less weightier SMW) and action platformers like Mega Man X. I never found early Sonic as fun to play those and still don't. I'm very, VERY picky about how characters 'feel' in these sorts of games. For example, I loathe how NSMB Wii feels, but I appreciate the majority of its level design.
Adventure and Adventure 2 (and other 3D Sonic games that include some that shall not be named) started putting in all this filler that threw me off. I fucking hate filler. Just give me a stage select and the option to skip cutscenes. I also don't think the transition to 3D space worked out too well, either, as the series started relying too much on context sensitive prompts. Not having proper camera control also bothered me. And if I hear Chao Garden one more time... I was there with Sonic Jam for Sonic's first foray into 3D (unless I'm mistaken, or unless you count 3D Blast, which I also had the misfortune of owning), and I've watched those infamous LPs all the way through, enough to see the genesis of modern 'Burnout' Sonic in Unleashed.
But I watched those after I played Colors. I had all but ignored Sonic until Colors had been out for a while. I got it on a whim. It was a revelation. It's my favorite Sonic game so far. I won't go into details about why I think the meaningful variety of wisps, boosting and meter management, large, explorable levels, an actually decent scoring system, amazing music, okay bosses, and mostly innocuous story all come together so well, but I will say that I adore what Sonic has become. I like it so much more than what I've played before. It's not as stupidly simple, boring, luck-based, or shitty. There is now enough depth to Sonic (and pleasure derived from controlling him) to make speedrunning feel as rewarding as it should've been years ago to me. Colors also has my absolute favorite underwater stages in any game that changes up its mechanics underwater (yes, any game--out of everything I've played in my entire life). Sonic can endlessly jump ('swim'), immediately return to the ground with a stomp from any height, get decent speed from simply running on the floor, boost anywhere (even boost across the surface), and use a yellow wisp to quickly fly right through the stage. And the final boss is actually a creative twist on the game's mechanics. It's a very polished game. I'm sure there are physics snobs who don't like how Sonic moves, but, for what the game requires you to do, everything is adequate and more functional than it has ever been. You even have an honest-to-goodness double jump.
Generations...is still really good but pushes more obnoxious content (some horrible story stuff and awful challenges) and changes a few things about 'modern' Sonic. He can't jump off any wall anymore (sad), swim (sad), milk points (sad), or use all the wisps found in Colors (sad), but the way you drift (I think this is the term) is more conducive to speeding through levels. 'Classic' Sonic is okay but not the highlight of that game for me. In a couple of challenges you have access to the old elemental shields, which should've been integrated better in the main stages, that make him more fun. The ability equip system (I forget what it's called) is also nice, offering players a way to tweak how they want Sonic to control. The music is understandably great, too. I am still sad that Colors' representation was really weak since Planet Wisp is a slog in Generations. I love that the game was released on PC because performance on consoles is not the best.
I think Sonic is on the right path right now. Colors and Generations are two platformers that offer something not many other games have been offering lately. The handheld games have been doing their own thing that people seem to enjoy, too. The closest thing we have to this 'modern Sonic' now is probably a hybrid between BIT.TRIP RUNNER, Mirror's Edge, and Burnout, but even those aren't quite the same (especially when power-ups and exploration are factored in). There are people who still love the older games, and that's totally fine, but I don't think anything new will satisfy them, whether or not Sega actually tries to or succeeds in appeasing their demands. As someone who was never particularly attached to the earlier games, I couldn't care less. I think it's unfortunate that the series has the stigma it brought upon itself, and I'm sad that some people who gave Colors and Generations a try aren't enjoying the games as much as others. I don't want this style of game to die off like so many other endangered genres right now (quality Metroidvania is practically on life support).
tl;dr I never was a fan of Sonic until Sonic games stopped being like Sonic games. My only issues now are shoehorned story, filler, and awkward design choices that get in the way of the franchise's unique brand of speedy 2D platforming.
I think Sonic 1 and whatever Game Gear Sonic game I had are decent. Sonic 2, 3, and Knuckles are good, as are most of the GBA/DS handheld titles. I think Sonic Colors is great, and Generations is slightly below Colors for me.
One of the reasons I disliked Sonic growing up is because I felt like you'd need to put in a lot of effort to get the most out of it. You'd have to memorize stages since you're moving so fast and experiment to find the best way through things. It was very different than most other platformers I played where obstacles would be right in front of you and plain to see. The satisfaction in Sonic wasn't surviving--it was the rush you got from performing flawlessly. I didn't find that type of play fun until later on. I much preferred traditional, weightier platformers like SMB3 (and the less weightier SMW) and action platformers like Mega Man X. I never found early Sonic as fun to play those and still don't. I'm very, VERY picky about how characters 'feel' in these sorts of games. For example, I loathe how NSMB Wii feels, but I appreciate the majority of its level design.
Adventure and Adventure 2 (and other 3D Sonic games that include some that shall not be named) started putting in all this filler that threw me off. I fucking hate filler. Just give me a stage select and the option to skip cutscenes. I also don't think the transition to 3D space worked out too well, either, as the series started relying too much on context sensitive prompts. Not having proper camera control also bothered me. And if I hear Chao Garden one more time... I was there with Sonic Jam for Sonic's first foray into 3D (unless I'm mistaken, or unless you count 3D Blast, which I also had the misfortune of owning), and I've watched those infamous LPs all the way through, enough to see the genesis of modern 'Burnout' Sonic in Unleashed.
But I watched those after I played Colors. I had all but ignored Sonic until Colors had been out for a while. I got it on a whim. It was a revelation. It's my favorite Sonic game so far. I won't go into details about why I think the meaningful variety of wisps, boosting and meter management, large, explorable levels, an actually decent scoring system, amazing music, okay bosses, and mostly innocuous story all come together so well, but I will say that I adore what Sonic has become. I like it so much more than what I've played before. It's not as stupidly simple, boring, luck-based, or shitty. There is now enough depth to Sonic (and pleasure derived from controlling him) to make speedrunning feel as rewarding as it should've been years ago to me. Colors also has my absolute favorite underwater stages in any game that changes up its mechanics underwater (yes, any game--out of everything I've played in my entire life). Sonic can endlessly jump ('swim'), immediately return to the ground with a stomp from any height, get decent speed from simply running on the floor, boost anywhere (even boost across the surface), and use a yellow wisp to quickly fly right through the stage. And the final boss is actually a creative twist on the game's mechanics. It's a very polished game. I'm sure there are physics snobs who don't like how Sonic moves, but, for what the game requires you to do, everything is adequate and more functional than it has ever been. You even have an honest-to-goodness double jump.
Generations...is still really good but pushes more obnoxious content (some horrible story stuff and awful challenges) and changes a few things about 'modern' Sonic. He can't jump off any wall anymore (sad), swim (sad), milk points (sad), or use all the wisps found in Colors (sad), but the way you drift (I think this is the term) is more conducive to speeding through levels. 'Classic' Sonic is okay but not the highlight of that game for me. In a couple of challenges you have access to the old elemental shields, which should've been integrated better in the main stages, that make him more fun. The ability equip system (I forget what it's called) is also nice, offering players a way to tweak how they want Sonic to control. The music is understandably great, too. I am still sad that Colors' representation was really weak since Planet Wisp is a slog in Generations. I love that the game was released on PC because performance on consoles is not the best.
I think Sonic is on the right path right now. Colors and Generations are two platformers that offer something not many other games have been offering lately. The handheld games have been doing their own thing that people seem to enjoy, too. The closest thing we have to this 'modern Sonic' now is probably a hybrid between BIT.TRIP RUNNER, Mirror's Edge, and Burnout, but even those aren't quite the same (especially when power-ups and exploration are factored in). There are people who still love the older games, and that's totally fine, but I don't think anything new will satisfy them, whether or not Sega actually tries to or succeeds in appeasing their demands. As someone who was never particularly attached to the earlier games, I couldn't care less. I think it's unfortunate that the series has the stigma it brought upon itself, and I'm sad that some people who gave Colors and Generations a try aren't enjoying the games as much as others. I don't want this style of game to die off like so many other endangered genres right now (quality Metroidvania is practically on life support).
tl;dr I never was a fan of Sonic until Sonic games stopped being like Sonic games. My only issues now are shoehorned story, filler, and awkward design choices that get in the way of the franchise's unique brand of speedy 2D platforming.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
So my opinion on SMW is that famous, eh? :lol SMW isn't a bad game by any means, but I've never found it to be particularly interesting. I thought SMB3 had more interesting levels/worlds, and Sonic 1 had better graphics and music, so SMW just ended up being a decent game that wasn't as good as its immediate predecessor or its closest competitor.
Sonic 2 MS is a good game, and vastly superior to the GG version. It's obviously no match for its 16-bit brother, but it's still an enjoyable game on its own. Sonic 1 8-bit is an interesting game though, in that it had an auto-scrolling level and a vertically scrolling level, and it was the first Sonic game to introduce Robotnik's airship base.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I thought I was alone in this assertion. :O
Rest of your post was quite valid, but I singled this bit out to say that Generations might fix your issues with bottomless pits since it does not neglect the top-middle-bottom path design that the older games had. Colours is quite similar, but there are some stages with bottomless pits which require a lot of platforming to get through (like this and this, for example). Unleashed has timed button sequences that in later levels will result in you dying if you fail them, so I'd stay away.
Man, branny, had to snip out most of your post, but I agree with a lot of it (particularly your stance on Colours and Generations, which I'd gone into back when Generations was released). But that doesn't surprise me at all. :lol
Didn't really think of the hybrid stuff (specifically Burnout) until you mentioned it, tbh. That's an interesting perspective to take with regards to the series. And yeah, I'm pretty picky about how playable characters feel in games, which is why I don't like some platformers as much as others (ex: your NSMB Wii example for instance), so it was interesting picking up Colours in 2010 and instantly falling in love with it (as I hadn't played Unleashed prior). Sonic actually felt good to control at the time, especially--and surprisingly!--in the water stages, which, in any game, will turn out to be less than desirable.
And yeah, story, filler and some design choices are pretty much the stuff holding it back. The end portion of Generations with a clearly-rushed final boss/final boss leadup, and them probably working on Planet Wisp HD while Planet Wisp Wii was being worked on (hence the vast difference between both outside of starting in a lovely field) is a good example. The lack of cohesion and nice glue to hold the game together is also another one, since I felt Colours was more cohesive than Generations. Thank goodness Colours and Generations start off as press start, make file, get into gameplay immediately.
Like, the challenges in Generations would have all been absolutely perfect if they were like Action Master.
Shizzlee
Member
"This guy, it's a blue thing that runs and jumps, and collect coins and now you wanna marry it."
"I guess there must be this whole deeper side of Sonic we don't know about."
"I really believe that the people making these games are making crazy shit for crazy people."
lol yes
Drifting is a mess (in a good way if you like time trials) in both Unleashed and Generations for their own reasons. Unleashed, because, well, you can snake like in a racer. Hold boost and snake = infinite boost and balls to da wall fast. There's also alot of other broken bullshit in Unleashed that also work in Generations, but I won't go into that because it's beyond my abilities although I do kinda know how it's done.
Generations' drifting while slightly more fixed, is still a mess for four reasons.
1. You can drift on certain walls to increase your speed. (I discovered this. You see anyone drifting at the end of Green Hill or in the middle of Rooftop Run after the 2D part then they jackin my style.
).2. If you are grounded then you can drift near the beginning of a Quick Step section for more speed. (example areas are the end of Crisis City, both Quick Step parts in Rooftop Run, and the truck chase in City Escape.
3. You can drift up walls to take short cuts. Speed Highway has been dismantled because of this.
4. Because Sonic hops before he drifts, if you try to drift before being launched of the smallest incline or ledge then Sonic will catch some air and fly off in the angle you specify. This has been used to take some good short cuts in Crisis City and Rooftop Run.
Yesss, there were some really great challenge stages, and that was probably one of the best ones. Modern Sonic has more flexibility because of all the additional things he can do. That flexibility inspires player creativity. And, yet, linear stages like Action Master designed around doing "the right thing" can also be super fun. There's so much potential with Sonic now.
And we're so cursed to be picky about how characters feel in these games because it's not the most objective thing to quantify. For example, I remember you really liking the fluidity of Rayman Origins while I found myself wanting more traction and impact (I still liked it, though). It hurts to see games like NSMB or LittleBigPlanet or so many indie platformers out there that are awesome and creative when they make me say "ew" the instant I pick up the controller. And then there are some weird cases like Super Meat Boy that feel fine to me (fine enough to play all the way to completion) that I don't get particularly attached to for whatever reason. I don't get ittttttt.
Yeah, being able to abuse it makes things more exciting.
I think they could still win everybody over again if they did Sonic 5 in the vein of Classic Sonic in Generations. Take that same formula and make a huge, epic game that dwarfs S3&K. No stupid 3D cutscenes, voice acting, or challenge levels (these are what made Generations seem great) - just put all the effort on the main level design in the core game...make it somewhat difficult. Zone, 3 acts, boss, etc. and people would lose their shit. This is all the have to do, I would think; (almost?) every Sonic fanbase and former fan would be crazy for it.
You aren't factoring those Sonic fans that actually likes the 3D cutscenes and the way newer Sonic plays.
Yeah, but Generations still seems to get praised pretty unanimously. I think everybody would get on board with that being the next game. Besides, I don't think anybody is worried atm about 3D Sonic games drying up.
Edit: And critically, I think Classic Sonic is going to be a lot more favorably received.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I also crave for another chao garden game. They were the best part about the adventure games.
ElectricBanquet
Member
While I like a lot of the music in the series and I do sometimes enjoy watching playthroughs of various Sonic games, I never really enjoyed actually playing them very much (even the old Genesis games). For whatever reason the series never clicked with me at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqMevxSKiCQ
That's the best argument I can put forward.
As for story, I think colours wii has gotten it best this gen - it is basically a dumb saturday morning cartoon. I think that fits Sonic perfectly.
blizzardjesus
Banned
The fanbase aside.... As a long time nintendo/mario fan, I always found the classic sonic games to be too short and too difficult. I preferred the length and difficulty of Adventure 1,2 Unleashed..ps2/wii version with a gamecube pad, Colors, The Advance and Rush games.
Sonic as a character is fine, but Sega doesn't know what to do with him, beause so many people have different views of what makes a great sonic game.
There just might need to be a balance of 2D and 3D, the way Nintendo has NewSMB and the Galaxy style games. And to put dev teams that care to make a good game and to give them enough time to make it.
Sonic as a character is fine, but Sega doesn't know what to do with him, beause so many people have different views of what makes a great sonic game.
There just might need to be a balance of 2D and 3D, the way Nintendo has NewSMB and the Galaxy style games. And to put dev teams that care to make a good game and to give them enough time to make it.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I don't really have anything to add, but great OP.
my issues with sonic is that they don't really have any faith in the character to just be his own thing. or at least, this was the case on consoles from 1998-2006. sonic and the secret rings was a good first step to reintroducing sonic-only games to people, and as an experiment, i thought it was pretty bold and interesting. a sequel in this style that improved on the original formula could have been pretty fucking awesome, but they set that aside for the black knight game.
it's funny because the black knight game was also something that eventually had you controlling different characters. and while sonic unleashed is just sonic the whole time, i didn't get it due to the werehog parts.
i think mirror's edge captures the feel of what old sonic games were about (a combination of going fast and using your platforming skills to find the best routes to complete a level), and its campaign was only 9 levels long for about 3-6 hours. but the replay value was there in spades. i didn't need a segment where i was playing as miller doing stealth work, or as the command center guy keeping track of everyone. they had their hero in faith and just stuck with it, game length and 'variety' be damned.
sonic generations can be pretty fucking short, but it also has a lot of replay value. the non-sonic parts are thankfully kept optional. i think generations overall fails to sonic colors as a total package, but it has some great level design, and getting back to classic sonic was a huge plus.
sonic colors was a breath of fresh air. the first sonic game in 3d where it was just sonic the entire time. no extra characters, just extra powers. and the levels could be completed without the extra powers. the extra powers were just there to help explore each level a little better, and the more you explored, the better chances you had at unlocking more platforming levels.
sonic colors is a game that knows what it is. it doesn't try to hide it behind an epic story, or multiple gameplay types, or an edgy look. before it ever asks you to save the game, or introduces a cutscene, it's act 1 and ready-set-go. it's a bold presentation backed up by some nice level design, an optional-yet-new take on sonic, and just the right amount of spectacle. even if sonic colors never gets a sequel, this is the sort of game they should emulate in the future.
it's funny because the black knight game was also something that eventually had you controlling different characters. and while sonic unleashed is just sonic the whole time, i didn't get it due to the werehog parts.
i think mirror's edge captures the feel of what old sonic games were about (a combination of going fast and using your platforming skills to find the best routes to complete a level), and its campaign was only 9 levels long for about 3-6 hours. but the replay value was there in spades. i didn't need a segment where i was playing as miller doing stealth work, or as the command center guy keeping track of everyone. they had their hero in faith and just stuck with it, game length and 'variety' be damned.
sonic generations can be pretty fucking short, but it also has a lot of replay value. the non-sonic parts are thankfully kept optional. i think generations overall fails to sonic colors as a total package, but it has some great level design, and getting back to classic sonic was a huge plus.
sonic colors was a breath of fresh air. the first sonic game in 3d where it was just sonic the entire time. no extra characters, just extra powers. and the levels could be completed without the extra powers. the extra powers were just there to help explore each level a little better, and the more you explored, the better chances you had at unlocking more platforming levels.
sonic colors is a game that knows what it is. it doesn't try to hide it behind an epic story, or multiple gameplay types, or an edgy look. before it ever asks you to save the game, or introduces a cutscene, it's act 1 and ready-set-go. it's a bold presentation backed up by some nice level design, an optional-yet-new take on sonic, and just the right amount of spectacle. even if sonic colors never gets a sequel, this is the sort of game they should emulate in the future.
The second zone in the original, Marble Zone, is almost pure platforming. You can't get any significant momentum over large portions of it. There's a long history of slower platforming segments in Sonic.
Projectjustice
Banned
He never hit Super Saiyajin Level 2.
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