Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy

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CrushDance said:
I'll just politely tell her to stop.


Honestly I'm not feeling anything really at all apart from some anger and a little bit of boredom. This isn't the first time that I got close to a girl and things went crazy. It's just the farthest. I'm not sad or anything. I feel sorry for the girl.
Edit: But yes, I get what you're saying. I'm honestly kind of angry at myself for still being this "weak" and naive. I'm my own worst enemy ffs.


I've been on GAF for quite a while now dude. I've read far worse.GAF literally saved my life once, so no. I could post screens from my phone of our texts or whatever but there are limits and I feel a lot of things I typed out are going far enough as it is. This thread specifically is for pure novices to get some help and move on.

If it's possible, an Admin can even check my login logs. I took a leave last year off GAF and the internet in general for 7 or 8 months and worked on myself after watching other people make great changes. Getting in shape especially was a big deal for me and I look great now as people often tell me. There's no need for someone to lie about failure anyway, that doesn't even make any sense. "I lost!"....good job?....Perhaps I am still a little naive and idealistic in the way I view people and more-so women, but I'm still making progress. Lots of people use the internet as a means to vent and to discuss things that they'd have trouble doing so in real life or simply because they have few people to turn to. I don't blame you for not believing, but I can only assure you that it is the truth.
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You don't have to prove anything to anybody here. I will say this again, and I realize it comes with age and experience but I and others are trying to help you get there without having to go through what we did: stop looking at women as delicate beings. They're not. They don't want to be treated as such. The longer you do treat them as such, the more difficult you will have in finding a relationship that is healthy.

Looking at a woman who is attractive and thinking something sexual about her is HUMAN NATURE. It's not wrong. As long as you are not leering at her, following her, drooling in front of her, embarrassing her, it's not wrong. It's not mistreating her. It's simply being a human, as women do it to men too. It's in our DNA.
 
Hey Crush, would you consider delivering a letter to her so she can get help if I wrote one, hopefully Gaf would help edit?
 
Kipe said:
Hey Crush, would you consider delivering a letter to her so she can get help if I wrote one, hopefully Gaf would help edit?
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lol you're joking, right?

I mean your thought is nice, you want her to get help (if you're not trololin) but this isn't his business nor his responsibility.
He needs to move on and not look back. It's not up to him to save her. It's up to her to do it.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
You don't have to prove anything to anybody here. I will say this again, and I realize it comes with age and experience but I and others are trying to help you get there without having to go through what we did: stop looking at women as delicate beings. They're not. They don't want to be treated as such. The longer you do treat them as such, the more difficult you will have in finding a relationship that is healthy.

Looking at a woman who is attractive and thinking something sexual about her is HUMAN NATURE. It's not wrong. As long as you are not leering at her, following her, drooling in front of her, embarrassing her, it's not wrong. It's not mistreating her. It's simply being a human, as women do it to men too. It's in our DNA.
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Thank you Cloving. I really do appreciate you guys and all the advice given here and there. It's like I said before though, this hasn't been for naught as I've gained a lot of confidence in being able to touch someone of the opposite sex now. The thing that held me back was/is the fear of rejection and not knowing how to touch. But I can see the power and value of it now very well. Sometimes you don't even have to say anything. Less talking more action I suppose!

Kipe said:
Hey Crush, would you consider delivering a letter to her so she can get help if I wrote one, hopefully Gaf would help edit?
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Yeah I thought this was a joke myself. But if you're really serious, no. I'm sorry, I just can't do this to myself. I've overcome a lot of things myself and although I can feel for her, I have only known her for twoish weeks and two days in person. I don't want to be responsible for her and inject myself into a situation where she might end up relying on me when things go wrong. I already ended things with her amicably anyway, it's over.
 
Kipe said:
Uh it's just a letter. There is hardly any investment, and if it helps, great.
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It's just a letter and he doesn't have any business delivering it. He isn't her family. He isn't her friend. He isn't her co worker. He isn't her fuck buddy. He isn't her brother. He isn't her teacher. He isn't her therapist. He is some dude that spent a couple of days with her and got physical. That is all. Nothing more.
 
Kipe said:
No, I'm serious she needs to see a psychiatrist. I don't want Crush involved in any other way except to just deliver the letter.
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That's a decision she probably needs to make. Personally i think having Crush tell her that she needs to see a psychiatrist after what has happened between them may do more harm than good.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
It's just a letter and he doesn't have any business delivering it. He isn't her family. He isn't her friend. He isn't her co worker. He isn't her fuck buddy. He isn't her brother. He isn't her teacher. He isn't her therapist. He is some dude that spent a couple of days with her and got physical. That is all. Nothing more.
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No, not exactly, he stirred up some fucked up shit. And he might have caused further harm here.
 
Kipe said:
No, not exactly, he stirred up some fucked up shit. And he might have caused further harm here.
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Stirred up some fucked up shit? What did he stir up? How did he cause harm? He didn't do shit that could case harm. Know who did shit? The dude who raped her. My goodness, and guys wonder why they are friendzoned. This shit right here.
 
Kipe said:
No, not exactly, he stirred up some fucked up shit. And he might have caused further harm here.
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I don't mean to be rude, but excuse me? What did I stir up? I met some random person. Random. Should I be held responsible for the long term well being of every person I meet? If I go out on a date with someone and they tell me that they accidently hit someone with a car before, should I ensure they get therapy for that?

When should one intervene? 1 date? 10 dates? I was getting to know the person and unfortunately I don't want to get to know her any more in depth. If you meet an overweight person and their online pic was really nice, should you tell them to go on a diet? I already feel bad enough it is for glimpsing into her life. I don't want any part of that.
 
CrushDance said:
I don't mean to be rude, but excuse me? What did I stir up? I met some random person. Random. Should I be held responsible for the long term well being of every person I meet? If I go out on a date with someone and they tell me that they accidently hit someone with a car before, should I ensure they get therapy for that?

When should one intervene? 1 date? 10 dates? I was getting to know the person and unfortunately I don't want to get to know her any more in depth. If you meet an overweight person and their online pic was really nice, should you tell them to go on a diet? I already feel bad enough it is for glimpsing into her life. I don't want any part of that.
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Ignore him.
 
CrushDance said:
I don't mean to be rude, but excuse me? What did I stir up? I met some random person. Random. Should I be held responsible for the long term well being of every person I meet? If I go out on a date with someone and they tell me that they accidently hit someone with a car before, should I ensure they get therapy for that?

When should one intervene? 1 date? 10 dates? I was getting to know the person and unfortunately I don't want to get to know her any more in depth. If you meet an overweight person and their online pic was really nice, should you tell them to go on a diet? I already feel bad enough it is for glimpsing into her life. I don't want any part of that.
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All I'm saying is you tripped up her past trauma and brought it up unintentionally and, I personally feel, you might have made things worse. You don't have to do anything and you probably couldn't deal with it anyway. You did nothing wrong. You couldn't have foreseen anything that happened. It just seems like a sour note to end everything that's all. I don't know.
 
CrushDance said:
I've been on GAF for quite a while now dude. I've read far worse.GAF literally saved my life once, so no. I could post screens from my phone of our texts or whatever but there are limits and I feel a lot of things I typed out are going far enough as it is. This thread specifically is for pure novices to get some help and move on.

If it's possible, an Admin can even check my login logs. I took a leave last year off GAF and the internet in general for 7 or 8 months and worked on myself after watching other people make great changes. Getting in shape especially was a big deal for me and I look great now as people often tell me. There's no need for someone to lie about failure anyway, that doesn't even make any sense. "I lost!"....good job?....Perhaps I am still a little naive and idealistic in the way I view people and more-so women, but I'm still making progress. Lots of people use the internet as a means to vent and to discuss things that they'd have trouble doing so in real life or simply because they have few people to turn to. I don't blame you for not believing, but I can only assure you that it is the truth.
Click to expand...
I remember you vividly from those first two Dating-Age threads. I remember you being so full of shit about a lot of stuff and was just plain outright stubborn and refusing to heed any of the advice people kept pouring onto you.

Oh, and the poems.

Those goddamn poems.

If I'm not mistaken, a bunch of people, myself included, called you out on your crap.
 
Kipe said:
All I'm saying is you tripped up her past trauma and brought it up unintentionally and, I personally feel, you might have made things worse.
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That's going to happen anytime she has any sort of initimate contact with a guy by the sounds of what happens. That is something she has to deal with and has nothing to do with crush.

Kipe said:
You don't have to do anything and you probably couldn't deal with it anyway.
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It's got nothing to do with whether or not he could deal with it, it isn't his problem and he shouldn't have to deal with it. This is something she needs to work out by herself or with the people close to her, not some guy she has seen a couple of times.

Kipe said:
It just seems like a sour note to end everything that's all.
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End everything? They went on a couple of dates together it's not like they were in a long relationship.
 
CrushDance said:
Okay. Let me answer and explain some of the things said since I posted yesterday. I'm sorry it took so long for a reply, but I had to work this morning too and have been all day til now.

When we were fooling around in my bed, I did not ask to do anything out of the "ordinary". General touchy feely things I did, but my hands never went anywhere sensitive unless I askes or she did it on her own. I didn't just start grasping at her wildly, even though I wanted too.

And here is the issue. It doesn't matter who you are or your beliefs when you're aroused. You'll do things that you may not have thought possible or "noble" simply because that's what we are. You don't need to read a manual or something to know how to have sex with the opposite sex. It just comes naturally. So it took damn near everything I had and more, to not let my hands go wild or "be a man" like some of you are saying. Why?
Because we talked beofre about our sexual experiences, or lack thereof and had a very candid conversation about it, and where we both wanted to go regarding intimacy. So the thought of suddenly overpowering her and "making her say yes" as some people are implying; is not only wrong because I personally promised her that I did not want a relationship or wait this long just for sex. And also for the simple fact that if she said no to something and I persisted, THAT'D BE RAPE./

It would be a totally different thing if we were not on the same page about sex and she was experienced. But I still wouldn't have had sex with her! Because [b/I do not *want* sex from someone right away. Do I want sex? Of course! Everything in my body was storming yesterday to go further, to have sex. I've never felt so heated before about anything. But there is a clear difference between a desire and what's right. So it's kind of baffling to me, hearing some of you say that I was being weak(When it took tremendous willpower to hold myself back) or that her no's were for fun. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to betray my own word on such an intimate matter.
//
She texted me last night simply saying "goodnight". Which really helped in me being able to sleep. This morning as I was heading to work she texted me agai and simply said: "Uh oh". I wanted to text her back and ask what the uh oh was for, but I'm still reeling from her response. It's been nearly a whole day now with no contact and I'm just thinking of how to explain how I feel/felt when she said that to me while making it clear that I do not want to continue things. It's only been two weeks total really, but I'm just annoyed that I "wasted my time" on her and still angry moreso that she accused me of something so horrible.

Edit:I only asked for permission because we'd talked about this type of thing before and she told me that I SHOULD ASK BEFORE DOING ANYTHING SERIOUS. ALWAYS. Just wtf@ some of you trying to say "You should have pushed it". Remember that she is a virgin just like me and the last thing I'd want is for someone to force me to have sex when I didn't want too.


This is what's bothering me the most. I don't want her to never trust guys, but it really seems like some ass attempted to force her once and so she's so reactionary when my hand wanders. I do not want to put it on my plate to deal with, but I feel for her.


What the hell? How was she lead on?! She started it! She put my hands on her breasts! We discussed this shit before and we BOTH said we wanted to take our time before going that far!
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Dude, tell her this.
Seriously, tell her that you really wanted it, but that you didn't want to betray her trust and force her into something she didn't want - that you were nervous because this was your first time. Don't stay quiet like a petulant manchild, you ought to really apoligize for keeping quiet for so long.

With that said, you shouldn't excuse her behavior, and say that what she said did hurt you.

Co-mu-ni-ca-tion

Or you can just wait this one out, which I think you're intending on doing.
Either way, that's fine.

EDIT: Oh nevermind, looks like you already did this. Good job, Crushdance.

You did good.

And that was it. I am so fucking glad this is over. Her insinuation that I just wanted to fuck her was absolutely maddening. After everything that I'd said to her and done(Or lack thereof). She truly felt that I wanted nothing but sex from her. I can't blame her though after reading some of the posts in this thread. A lot of guys are seriously fucked up in putting their balls over the girls feelings. I feel terribly bad knowing that she's probably sobbing her eyes out right now, but I really think this is for the best. Her comment about letting guys just use her though was a vicious thing to say and if it's any indication of what potential fights might be like with her, I don't want any part of it.
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Nugget of wisdom, right there.
 
SpectreFire said:
I remember you vividly from those first two Dating-Age threads. I remember you being so full of shit about a lot of stuff and was just plain outright stubborn and refusing to heed any of the advice people kept pouring onto you.

Oh, and the poems.

Those goddamn poems.

If I'm not mistaken, a bunch of people, myself included, called you out on your crap.
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I'm still at a lost about what things you're talking about specifically. What was I full of shit about??? And just for the record, I think if you go through the depression thread; you'll see just how messed up I was and the long road from then till now. I'm not sure what you want me to say because the person I was back then is almost literally not the same person I am today.

Besides. If this were some shtick or what have you, it'd be the same thing and ignoring advice. Not taking it if it worked for me and going outside of GAF/internet to come to peace with myself. And lastly, you're thinking of someone else when talking about poems. I know who you're talking about and it wasn't me. I wrote one though I think...and yes. It is pathetic and embarrassing to me now too. But people do and can change. I might even look back on this in the future and laugh about how as an early adult I turned to the internet for help on all sorts of things.

But I won't be ashamed of it. I need/needed help and I went where there were many people similar to me. I didn't even post in OT when I first came to GAF, I came here for gaming purposes. Something that I barely ever do any-more, another change. Sure, I was a mess in the past. No argument. But I never lied on GAF about things that I asked for help on and GAF has been very good to me.

You shouldn't be trying to make me feel bad for asking for help. I needed it. Not everyone has people that they can turn to for things like this on a moments notice.
 
Kipe said:
All I'm saying is you tripped up her past trauma and brought it up unintentionally and, I personally feel, you might have made things worse. You don't have to do anything and you probably couldn't deal with it anyway. You did nothing wrong. You couldn't have foreseen anything that happened. It just seems like a sour note to end everything that's all. I don't know.
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This was going to happen sooner or later because she hasn't gotten over her trauma. It sounds like any guy would have triggered her PTSD and Crush went out of his fucking way to be understanding and not force anything.
 
Jackben said:
I think the off-feeling you had was yourself being suprised that you were so in-tune and in control of the situation and your feelings regarding it. You just weren't feeling it and you were more than happy to let it go without being hung-up over it. That's a great thing man! Feel good.
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a little update to this post

I felt good about my decision but I clearly didn't feel good about what she had to experience. I mean there was clearly some effort spent on the looks because she looked much, much better than on our first date. She travelled pretty far and was greeted by a young man who just fucked up the date. It wasn't her fault that I felt different about this whole affair this day.

so I texted her back this evening saying that I was an idiot and apologized for ruining the date. She was quite light-hearted about it and accepted apologies with no fuzz. We talked a bit and then I called it a night. I still feel obliged to give her at least one entertaining date (and now I WILL plan it out) but it seems that she needs another type of man rather than me. A "real" man. Not stereotypical alpha but a traditional strong man who she can love deeply. I'm not that man, I have all sorts of flaws and I'm quite non-chalant about some stuff people usually care about.

I'll ask her for another date if she agrees then fine, I'll try my best not to fuck it up. If not - it's fine too.
 
CrushDance said:
You guys are confusing me. Aren't we(I say we as in both sexes) always supposed to ask for consent before going further? Or are you guys saying that if you're making out with someone that you just go with whatever you want? Honestly, this was my first time being "intimate" with someone and I was quite nervous since she kept dictating where my hands were.

The way I view it and still do is: If you're making out, just read the other persons body language and go with that. What one person does is okay and vice-versa.
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Pretty much how I see it.

Anyway this thread is a mess at the moment, so I'm probably gonna bail.
 
CrushDance said:
Then she said(Like most of us had guessed by her reaction) that she'd "dated" someone before and the guy had tried to force himself on her on their first date. She'd refused and he just groped her all over before leaving her to find a way home herself.

She kept sniffling and then just said: "You're really the most respectable and greatest guy that I've ever know. I'm sorry I ruined it...are you sure about this?"
Click to expand...


So the first guy she goes out with wanted to touch her too much and almost rapes her, and the second guy who is the most respectable and greatest guy that she's ever known ends up feeling dirty touching her and ditches her after the second date.

Poor girl :(
 
"Do you want me to go on?"


Some people here are fucking stupid.
 
Uncompromisable said:
Crushdance, I'm going to be real with you. This girl does have insecurities (many do), but one thing that made her insecure is the fact that you did not (try to) have sex with her. This makes her feel unattractive and unwanted by you. The way she expressed this to you is by using your values against you in a very gross attack. In all honesty though, do yourself a favor, simplify your life and start sleeping with the girls you're seeing as soon as you can. IT JUST MAKES THINGS WAY WAY EASIER for you and her.
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This is exactly what happened with my girlfriend. Only she understands I like it slow, and is giving me all the time in the world.

I am a sex fiend with her now.
 
heidern said:
So the first guy she goes out with wanted to touch her too much and almost rapes her, and the second guy who is the most respectable and greatest guy that she's ever known ends up feeling dirty touching her and ditches her after the second date.

Poor girl :(
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Seriously. This experience has probably fucked her up almost as much as the first guy.

Crush, she honestly seems like an okay girl. She's good for you in a lot of ways too, and you don't need to cut it off. If you feel that strongly about it though, then consider this a learning experience and next time you meet someone with similar handguns (which are common), you'll be better equipped to deal with them.

For what its worth though women aren't made of glass, and you treating her as such is cruel and condescending.
 
Kung Fu Grip said:
How does that happen? Isnt inside a vagina soft?
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Haha, yes. I'm not that guy but I have a friend who had a serious problem in the same way...

1. Piercings, either on the guy or the girl. Rip and tear.
2. Some guys have tight foreskins, like my friend. He had to take off sex for several months if I recall...

*shudder*
 
So while I was at the library the other day and this red head was giving me the signals, but I didn't talk to her since she looked a bit too young. I didn't know if she was petite or just too young.... do you guys go up to girls and ask them their age first?
 
SniperHunter said:
So while I was at the library the other day and this red head was giving me the signals, but I didn't talk to her since she looked a bit too young. I didn't know if she was petite or just too young.... do you guys go up to girls and ask them their age first?
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If she looks too young, then don't bother.
Maybe she's not that young, in which case everything is cool, or maybe she is that young, and it ends with you being punched in the face by said lady's father/mother.
 
SquiddyBiscuit said:
If she looks too young, then don't bother.
Maybe she's not that young, in which case everything is cool, or maybe she is that young, and it ends with you being punched in the face by said lady's father/mother.
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yea that's why I didn't bother. In my mind, I just said, "she looks too young" and walked away, she kept looking at me afterwards but I didn't bother at all. Didn't want to look like a creepy child predator....I need to put on some muscle in my upper body. A lot of young high school girls give me that look and I don't like it :/

SquiddyBiscuit said:
And most parents will suspect him for a pedophilerapistserialkiller if they see a 20-30 year old man walk up and initiate a conversation with their 15-16 year old daughter.
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exactly.

ClovingWestbrook said:
Or he can go up and say hello and within the conversation ask her age...
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Anyway this other time another red head was giving me the signals while I was working at Pearson International, that time I didn't talk to her cause she was about to depart. Wouldn't have any sense talking to her....but man she was smoking hot. I need a lot of help...I don't know how to approach women.
 
Do you guys think it's still a bad idea to ask a woman her age these days? I mean, according to my parents it's just as sensitive as asking about their weight (which I do understand can be a touchy subject), but it is 2012 and I've personally never had any issues with it. On the other hand though, last night I was asked to compare a girl with a guy and tell the group which one looked the youngest and I went with the guy (bro code lol) and it was clearly the wrong answer xD I couldn't tell if she was offended for real or not.

SniperHunter said:
Anyway this other time another red head was giving me the signals while I was working at Pearson International, that time I didn't talk to her cause she was about to depart. Wouldn't have any sense talking to her....but man she was smoking hot. I need a lot of help...I don't know how to approach women.
Click to expand...
Stop having a reason for approaching her. That's why you're nervous. If you absolutely must have a reason, it should be to have a good time and make sure she has a good time. Give instead of wanting. and if you must look at it in terms of approach anxiety, rephrase as approach excitement, because it's really nothing like real anxiety at all.
 
SniperHunter said:
...
....but man she was smoking hot. I need a lot of help...I don't know how to approach women.
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You see that's the problem. She was smoking hot. Good. No need to put her on a pedestal and make her ABOVE you. No no no. You BOTH are humans no one superior or inferior. Talk to her like you would talk to any person or your peeps. Simple.
 
SquiddyBiscuit said:
And most parents will suspect him for a pedophilerapistserialkiller if they see a 20-30 year old man walk up and initiate a conversation with their 15-16 year old daughter.
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Lol what?

I'm not telling him to walk up to her in the middle of the library and profess his undying love. It is quite possible to speak to someone of the opposite gender and ask their age without coming across as a creep.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
Lol what?

I'm not telling him to walk up to her in the middle of the library and profess his undying love. It is quite possible to speak to someone of the opposite gender and ask their age without coming across as a creep.
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He said "initiate a conversation" not "profess his undying love."

And I imagine it would be seen as pedo-ish, provided she was a teenager.
 
ecurbj said:
You see that's the problem. She was smoking hot. Good. No need to put her on a pedestal and make her ABOVE you. No no no. You BOTH are humans no one superior or inferior. Talk to her like you would talk to any person or your peeps. Simple.
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Easier said than done :P, it's just a bad bit of internal programming that I need to get out of my brain. I will need a lot of practice! But yes, your point is great, talk to her like a human being.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
Lol what?

I'm not telling him to walk up to her in the middle of the library and profess his undying love. It is quite possible to speak to someone of the opposite gender and ask their age without coming across as a creep.
Click to expand...

Hey, what are you reading there? If its for school, ask what school. Congrats, you just found your answer without even having to ask her age. Don't even need to ask age or anything, just talk.
 
SniperHunter said:
Easier said than done :P, it's just a bad bit of internal programming that I need to get out of my brain. I will need a lot of practice! But yes, your point is great, talk to her like a human being.
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I'm in the same boat as you. It is an "internal" problem. It's something we did growing up. All it takes is training that part to move out of the comfort zone because if not. You and I will be missing out on A LOT of opportunities. I mean A LOT.

Get at it!
 
Minamu said:
Do you guys think it's still a bad idea to ask a woman her age these days? I mean, according to my parents it's just as sensitive as asking about their weight (which I do understand can be a touchy subject), but it is 2012 and I've personally never had any issues with it. On the other hand though, last night I was asked to compare a girl with a guy and tell the group which one looked the youngest and I went with the guy (bro code lol) and it was clearly the wrong answer xD I couldn't tell if she was offended for real or not.
Click to expand...

Unless it absolutely imperative that you know her age, I'd avoid the question initially. It's kinda like a minefield.
 
ecurbj said:
I'm in the same boat as you. It is an "internal" problem. It's something we did growing up. All it takes is training that part to move out of the comfort zone because if not. You and I will be missing out on A LOT of opportunities. I mean A LOT.

Get at it!
Click to expand...
I have missed a lot of opportunities already, I know what you mean. I am such a fool...fuck (one smoking hot phd candidate professor and a high school teacher come to mind immediately...not trying to brag but just saying)
 
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