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[Jintor]

I know you guys are upset but the last thing American schools need is religious teaching. Leave it as is, separate church and state, keep schools secular. It's one of the best and most important things about this country.

I think you're mixing up 'teaching about religions' and 'religious instruction'.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I think that's the real solution. Lots of people from the south from 99% white cities inevitably have a little bit of racism, but once they work in cities with other people they grow out of it.

This is BS. people always talk about places like Birmingham or Atlanta being racist but look at the demographics
Birmingham is 73% Black 22% White
Atlanta is 54% Black 38% White.

The south isn't some all white states where nobody else is allowed.
Im sure a majority of people up in the heels could be racist but its like that everywhere.

edit:Im not saying there are no racist because there is a large percentage of Black
Im saying there are racist but not because the cities are a huge White majority.

 

[Big Baybee]

I know you guys are upset but the last thing American schools need is religious teaching. Leave it as is, separate church and state, keep schools secular. It's one of the best and most important things about this country.

No one is talking about bringing church into the schools, but people should know basic things about different religions and cultures.

 

[Angry Fork]

I think you're mixing up 'teaching about religions' and 'religious instruction'.

Neither belong in public schools unless it's mythology courses, creative writing or something similar. Schools need to remain secular institutions. I can't believe people are seriously suggesting we should have teachers waste time in classes drawing up a list of religions and telling kids what they are just so they can be 'tolerant' and not shoot them in the future (as if this is a common thing). It's completely ridiculous.

Do you want them to bring up scientology and mormonism now and anything else people deem to be culturally important? It's either no religion or all religions, and there are far too many religions to get through in a school day. That's without even mentioning the fact that they aren't real. They do not belong in public schools.

 

[Darth Sonik]

My thoughts are with the victims, families, friends & the community.

These senseless massacres are really disgusting, I cannot process them beyond the basics of the story. I guess 24 hour news will be doing its thing, I will not be following the coverage beyond the unavoidable bits.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

First of all, RIP to the slain.

Secondly, if this guy's who they think he is, he's a big an idiot as he is a bloodthirsty coward.

I think you're mixing up 'teaching about religions' and 'religious instruction'.

Many do.

I think that's the real solution. Lots of people from the south from 99% white cities inevitably have a little bit of racism, but once they work in cities with other people they grow out of it.

This is BS. people always talk about places like Birmingham or Atlanta being racist but look at the demographics
Birmingham is 73% Black 22% White
Atlanta is 54% Black 38% White.

Glorious.

 

[Stinkles]

While I try and find a working version, here is the gist of it:

Columns from left to right:

Firearms per 100 people; Firearms homicides per 100,000 people; Total Percentage of homicides by firearms out of total homicides; Total number of firearms homicides.

For reference, the top most row is the US. The data rows are ordered by number of firearms per 100 people. The further down you get, the less legal guns there are in the hands of citizens.

US numbers:

88.8 firearms per 100 people; 2.97 homicides by gun per 100,000; 60% homicides are by gun; 10,129 total homicides by gun.

For reference:

The huge black blob about halfway down is Brazil with 8 guns per 100 people (very strict gun control there); 18.1 homicides per 100,000; 70.8% of all murders done with a gun; 34,678 homicides by gun

The data is a cumulative from census bureaus, WHO, Police dept. data etc.

Of course, I will find and post a working pic, but the people who are anti-gun will ignore the data anyway or rationalize it away some how. That is pretty typical.

This list as far as i can tell, compares murder and legally owned firearms and ignores accidents, suicides and illegally owned or unregistered firearms. Ultimately it's a chart of how murderous countries are and is predictably a gauge of the value of human life versus police competency - and not a chart of how dangerous guns per capita are. I am not moving the goalposts, by the way, but it's a very specifically focused chart.

I bet of the charts were drilled deeper we'd be seeing trends in say Sao Paolo and Juarez.

The US is on a path to less violent crime and less murder. This chart will get better as the years go on, but it's a corner of the problem, not the problem. I suppose this means I am ignoring the data or rationalizing it anyway, right?

 

[Big Baybee]

Neither belong in public schools unless it's mythology courses, creative writing or something similar. Schools need to remain secular institutions. I can't believe people are seriously suggesting we should have teachers waste time in classes drawing up a list of religions and telling kids what they are just so they can be 'tolerant' and not shoot them in the future (as if this is a common thing). It's completely ridiculous.

Do you want them to bring up scientology and mormonism now and anything else people deem to be culturally important? It's either no religion or all religions, and there are far too many religions to get through in a school day. That's without even mentioning the fact that they aren't real. They do not belong in public schools.

I just don't understand this.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Yes. Let's generalize and paint Americans as uneducated.

Just saying dude!

 

[mr_nothin]

This is BS. people always talk about places like Birmingham or Atlanta being racist but look at the demographics
Birmingham is 73% Black 22% White
Atlanta is 54% Black 38% White.

The south isn't some all white states where nobody else is allowed.
Im sure a majority of people up in the heels could be racist but its like that everywhere.

Wut?
Atlanta is mostly (54%) Black you say? lol
Only on the southside my friend...

 

[Count Dookkake]

2 things;

1) American's need better education.

2) This is the 2nd major media reported shooting in what 2 weeks? America has to start re-thinking gun laws...

Huh.

 

[Angry Fork]

I just don't understand this.

I don't know what you don't understand I just explained why religion in schools makes no sense. Do you want to teach every single religion or just pick and choose what the most popular ones are? Don't you think they should be established as fact first before being taught to kids in public schools?

This is rudimentary stuff. Again you guys are upset and flying off the handle. This was a horrible event and SO MANY Americans are stupid retard assholes but teaching "about" religion in schools for the sake of tolerance rather than facts is not the way to fix things. American 'WE'RE #1' vengeance culture in general is one of the bigger problems. Schools should just teach to care and respect for others regardless of who they are and leave it at that.

 

[FloppyDelux]

Fuck humanity.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Fuck humanity.

Yes, because ALL humans in the world have this in them.

All humans are deranged like this suspect.

Man, I hate blanket statements like this.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Wut?
Atlanta is mostly (54%) Black you say? lol
Only on the southside my friend...

South and east side. Well, below I-20
East side.

 

[Big Baybee]

I don't know what you don't understand I just explained why religion in schools makes no sense. Do you want to teach every single religion or just pick and choose what the most popular ones are? Don't you think they should be established as fact first before being taught to kids in public schools?

This is rudimentary stuff. Again you guys are upset and flying off the handle. This was a horrible event and SO MANY Americans are stupid retard assholes but teaching "about" religion in schools for the sake of tolerance rather than facts is not the way to fix things. American 'WE'RE #1' vengeance culture in general is one of the bigger problems. Schools should just teach to care and respect for others regardless of who they are and leave it at that.

What you are suggesting is willful ignorance of other cultures. There are billions of religious people in this world. Learning and understanding and tolerance is not a bad thing, even if you believe its bullshit or fairy tales.

 

[TUROK]

Not one peep about this on my Facebook feed. When the Aurora killings hit, everyone was posting about it. This... Not a single soul.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Wut?
Atlanta is mostly (54%) Black you say? lol
Only on the southside my friend...

my bad was looking at the wiki census.
though Birmingham's I do know is mostly correct.

 

[killertofu]

Not one peep about this on my Facebook feed. When the Aurora killings hit, everyone was posting about it. This... Not a single soul.

Same here. Too busy watching the Olympics I guess

 

[CrazyDogg77]

What you are suggesting is willful ignorance of other cultures. There are billions of religious people in this world. Learning and understanding and tolerance is not a bad thing, even if you believe its bullshit or fairy tales.

Dude just has crazy hate for religion.

 

[Kibbles]

They are letting neighbors back into their homes.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This thread is apparently a competition of who can paint entire communities with the broadest brush strokes.

 

[Angry Fork]

What you are suggesting is willful ignorance of other cultures. There are billions of religious people in this world. Learning and understanding and tolerance is not a bad thing, even if you believe its bullshit or fairy tales.

I don't "believe" it's bullshit, it is. Unless it can be demonstrated to be fact it has no place in public schools period. Learning about other culture's is fine in an optional social studies class or mythology or something similar but that happens already. There should never be however some religious breakdown of each religion, what this god is, why they believe this, what this means etc. as if it mattered to the real material world and for the sake of tolerance. That's definitely crazy.

It shouldn't be the state's job to force people to learn stories that others want to believe. Just because 'a lot of people believe it' does not make it valid to force on those who don't. If you believe it should then you have to tell me why the state shouldn't implement every single religious belief in schools or which ones you would pick and choose, and how you know them to be true. I don't want to derail this thread into something else but I have to balance out the ridiculous suggestions being put forth in here.

Dude just has crazy hate for religion.

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain why you would want mythology to be mandatory teaching in public schools? This thread is blowing my mind I can't believe you guys are serious. It has nothing to do with hate it's common sense who am I hating?

 

[Bombadil]

Dude just has crazy hate for religion.

Bingo.

"Let's ignore this very large facet of human culture because I have removed myself from it and have an irrational disliking of it."

I don't "believe" it's bullshit, it is. Unless it can be demonstrated to be fact it has no place in public schools period. Learning about other culture's is fine in an optional social studies class or mythology or something similar but that happens already. There should never be however some religious breakdown of each religion, what this god is, why they believe this, what this means etc. as if it mattered to the real material world and for the sake of tolerance. That's definitely crazy.

It shouldn't be the state's job to force people to learn stories that others want to believe. Just because 'a lot of people believe it' does not make it valid to force on those who don't. If you believe it should then you have to tell me why the state shouldn't implement every single religious belief in schools or which ones you would pick and choose, and how you know them to be true. I don't want to derail this thread into something else but I have to balance out the ridiculous suggestions being put forth in here.

Don't you have an incredibly fulfilling life to be living somewhere, now that you've "escaped from the clutches of superstitious ignorance"?

 

[Big Baybee]

Well whatever, you can live in your bubble and pretend the world doesn't exist.

 

[Angry Fork]

Bingo.

"Let's ignore this very large facet of human culture because I have removed myself from it and have an irrational disliking of it."

Do you not understand what the separation of church and state is? Can anyone give a reasonable argument for why personal beliefs should be taught to kids by the state in public schools? That is what people are suggesting. THAT is irrational.

Well whatever, you can live in your bubble and pretend the world doesn't exist.

And that's exactly what the US allows students to do. They are taught facts in public schools and if they choose to get into religions and other cultures they can do that on their own time, not at the expense of teachers time and tax payer money.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Teaching the students about existence religion is not the same with "hey students, I want you to join Christianity/Islam/whatever or else!"

Like it or not, religion is an extremely huge part of human society so to avoid teaching about them completely in schools is just absurd. To conflate teaching about religion with persuading them to join them is just being paranoid on such a ridiculous level.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Do you not understand what the separation of church and state is? Can anyone give a reasonable argument for why personal beliefs should be taught to kids by the state in public schools? That is what people are suggesting. THAT is irrational.

You have no idea what people are actually talking about. Please stop now before you hurt yourself more.

 

[Davidion]

I'm just hearing about this in the last few hours. Coverage elsewhere has been sparse, mostly overshadowed by the Olympics.

I can only send condolences for those affected.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

Do you not understand what the separation of church and state is? Can anyone give a reasonable argument for why personal beliefs should be taught to kids by the state in public schools? That is what people are suggesting. THAT is irrational.

Separation of church and state is not letting religion control government affairs and not setting an official religion. Something I as a Christian fully support. This is not what you are talking about at all though.

 

[Angry Fork]

Teaching the students about existence religion is not the same with "hey students, I want you to join Christianity/Islam/whatever or else!"

Like it or not, religion is an extremely huge part of human society so to avoid teaching about them completely in schools is just absurd.

I have no problem with it being in mythology courses or cultural/social studies courses and similar ones like that where it fits and makes sense to put it in. But it should not be mandated by the state and kids shouldn't have to take tests on it and so on. Religion should be opt-in, not opt-out.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I have no problem with it being in mythology courses or cultural/social studies courses and similar ones like that where it fits and makes sense to put it in. But it should not be mandated by the state and kids shouldn't have to take tests on it and so on. Religion should be opt-in, not opt-out.

This is literally what people have been suggesting and that you've been flipping out arguing against.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I have no problem with it being in mythology courses or cultural/social studies courses and similar ones like that where it fits and makes sense to put it in. But it should not be mandated by the state and kids shouldn't have to take tests on it and so on. Religion should be opt-in, not opt-out.

What you are saying right now is different with what you were saying before.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I'm just hearing about this in the last few hours. Coverage elsewhere has been sparse, mostly overshadowed by the Olympics.

I can only send condolences for those affected.

Fox "news" talked about it for maybe 5-10 minutes and resumed scheduled programming.
Dumb

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Teaching the students about existence religion is not the same with "hey students, I want you to join Christianity/Islam/whatever or else!"

Like it or not, religion is an extremely huge part of human society so to avoid teaching about them completely in schools is just absurd. To conflate teaching about religion with persuading them to join them is just being paranoid on such a ridiculous level.

And denies people a lot of great literature to read if they ever take a religious literature class.

 

[Big Baybee]

I have no problem with it being in mythology courses or cultural/social studies courses and similar ones like that where it fits and makes sense to put it in. But it should not be mandated by the state and kids shouldn't have to take tests on it and so on. Religion should be opt-in, not opt-out.

Dude, no one is talking about turning school into freaking church. Of course we are talking about history/social studies. Do you not understand what we are saying? The misunderstanding is on your side.

 

[Bombadil]

Do you not understand what the separation of church and state is? Can anyone give a reasonable argument for why personal beliefs should be taught to kids by the state in public schools? That is what people are suggesting. THAT is irrational.

Angry Fork, I seriously disagree with your interpretation of the separation of church and state. I didn't read all the posts here, I admit, but I'm going to risk saying that no one here who is proposing for more education of world religions in school wants children to be indoctrinated in religion via that teaching. No religions are being promoted by way of teaching about their existence. If you are so very terrified of the idea of a child in the United States of America being aware of the existence of people of different religions from having learned about them in school, then you have a serious issue that needs to be rectified. You need to be taught and re-taught the difference between teaching somebody about the existence of a religion, and trying to get them to join said religion.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Teaching about religion is fine, as long as it includes the bad stuff, and is not just some sort of namby-pamby PR or a bogus "they're all true in their own way" feel-good nonsense.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Just saying dude!

What if I were to make a broad statement about Muslims being backwards and ignorant based on this?

 

[alstein]

This is BS. people always talk about places like Birmingham or Atlanta being racist but look at the demographics
Birmingham is 73% Black 22% White
Atlanta is 54% Black 38% White.

The south isn't some all white states where nobody else is allowed.
Im sure a majority of people up in the heels could be racist but its like that everywhere.

edit:Im not saying there is no racist because there is a large percentage of Black
Im saying there are racist but not because the cities are a huge White majority.

Usually that's how it is in the South: the cities are fine, the hills are racist/homophobic hellholes. Look at how NC voted on Amendment Dumb earlier this year.

As for this guy- he's a vet? Wow.

 

[Conciliator]

Boo

Love to the members of the congregation and family/friends.

 

[SniperHunter]

I just dont think these super racist guys will attend a class about other religions in the world. I have met such people before and they are really screwed up, I just dont see a class changing their beliefs

Even if this guy knew the difference between a Sikh person and a Muslim person, he would have gone to a local mosque and killed the attendees there....it doesnt solve the real issue.

 

[Bombadil]

Teaching about religion is fine, as long as it includes the bad stuff, and is not just some sort of namby-pamby PR or a bogus "they're all true in their own way" feel-good nonsense.

As long as the teaching remains entirely neutral, there will be no problems. But I imagine teachers would let their personal attitudes get in the way. It would require a lot of training on the part of the teachers to include it in the curriculum.

 

[F#A#Oo]

By Angry Forks logic we should ban the teaching of Romeo and Juliet...teaching us to stand up for hate and take our own lives for love lost.

 

[B-Dex]

Neither belong in public schools unless it's mythology courses, creative writing or something similar. Schools need to remain secular institutions. I can't believe people are seriously suggesting we should have teachers waste time in classes drawing up a list of religions and telling kids what they are just so they can be 'tolerant' and not shoot them in the future (as if this is a common thing). It's completely ridiculous.

Do you want them to bring up scientology and mormonism now and anything else people deem to be culturally important? It's either no religion or all religions, and there are far too many religions to get through in a school day. That's without even mentioning the fact that they aren't real. They do not belong in public schools.

In Canada we learn about religions in Social Studies class..... Even went on field trips to temples and churches.....

 

[Count Dookkake]

As long as the teaching remains entirely neutral, there will be no problems. But I imagine teachers would let their personal attitudes get in the way. It would require a lot of training on the part of the teachers to include it in the curriculum.

Look at how difficult it is for some of them to teach evolution without sneaking in some religious perversion. It would definitely be a difficult endeavor, but it would probably be worth it in the long haul. Particularly if they started it young.

 

[F#A#Oo]

What if I were to make a broad statement about Muslims being backwards and ignorant based on this?

Muslims do bad things...what a surprise...not.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I just dont think these super racist guys will attend a class about other religions in the world. I have met such people before and they are really screwed up, I just dont see a class changing their beliefs

Even if this guy knew the difference between a Sikh person and a Muslim person, he would have gone to a local mosque and killed the attendees there....it doesnt solve the real issue.

It's a start.

I've personally known some cases where racist views are absolved when opportunities to learn about "them" is presented and given. This may sound too Hollywood-esque, but I really think it will be worth it if even only one person is saved from racist views, since who can tell what that one person can do in the grandest scheme of things.

 

[Freezie KO]

As long as the teaching remains entirely neutral, there will be no problems. But I imagine teachers would let their personal attitudes get in the way. It would require a lot of training on the part of the teachers to include it in the curriculum.

Agree with this.

The idea of teaching religion is great. It's an important part of society (and their fear of death).

But do I trust Christian teachers in the South to teach Christianity objectively to school childen? No.

 

[Angry Fork]

I get the distinct impression that some of you guys are purposefully tiptoeing on the line of 'hey we mean this, we didn't mean this' etc. but don't necessarily believe that. It seems like if you guys had a choice of either no religion at all, or every religion you'd pick the latter just because a lot of people believe it, promoting multiculturalism etc. and so on and not caring about whether it's true or not.

And it would be in the purpose of love harmony bathing in other people's beliefs 'everyone has the right idea' let's embrace etc. It just feels really creepy. I picture some kid in class saying I'm a christian and this is what I believe! and then the teacher points to another kid and he says I'm a muslim this is what I believe! And they're forced to shake hands and hug. I mean I'm a hardcore leftist on most issues but I don't understand this liberal hypothetical dream.