CharlieDigital
Banned
Just as a thought here: poverty is also something that can be controlled. Is that a green light to look down on the poor for being poor? Is poverty a choice?
Devil's Advocate
"Anti-obesity: The new homophobia?"
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Just as a thought here: poverty is also something that can be controlled. Is that a green light to look down on the poor for being poor? Is poverty a choice?
If anyone actually makes that argument they deserve to be punched in the face for being a moron.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Yeah... no.
Frankenstrat
Member
Oh, that's rich.
As an overweight person I can say that people should not take obesity as an acceptable life style. Nothing wrong with having a few pounds on you, but there should be limits. 50lbs over weight should be the maximum allowed before your considered as having a problem imo. Theres absolutely no excuse for being in the 300lbs+ range(unless your a 7ft body builder or something.)
I also think it should be illegal for fast food places to sell unhealthy food to really fat people.
I also think it should be illegal for fast food places to sell unhealthy food to really fat people.
FallingEdge
Member
Yo, do some squats and you will be fine.
The_Inquisitor
Member
There are people who drink too much alcohol. Should we also not persecute these people with destructive habits?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
This seems like a very misleading comparison, having said that:
The real problem with how overweight people are treated isn't that people think "they need to lose weight", that's reasonable. Rather, society currently encourages hypocritical attitudes towards weight and generally seems to encourage giving fat people 'advice' in the form of ostracizing and treating them like shit.
People generally seem to consider being fat a special case where you're free to think and say whatever about the individual and enjoy lording yourself over them. Meanwhile, smoking, drinking, and plenty of other things that are commonly abused get a much freer pass from most people.
Added to that dismissive, simple-minded attitudes towards overweight people such as "stop eating six whoppers a day fatty" and many people who literally think anyone overweight is a bad person. We have those here on GAF. It's charming.
This is all actually counterproductive and doesn't really show one is concerned for overweight people, but rather just indulging in using them as, perhaps, the last major socially acceptable target to draw joy from their apparent suffering.
In my experience people are far kinder and more supportive of someone who says "I drink too much", than someone who is even a little overweight. It's getting quite stupid, especially since it doesn't take authentic morbid obesity to trigger the response anymore. Perhaps it is a symptom of a narcissistic culture afraid of visibly displaying imperfection, but it's far less socially acceptable to be perceived as overweight by ANY standard, than it is to smoke, to drink. For a lot of people, even doing drugs.
The real problem with how overweight people are treated isn't that people think "they need to lose weight", that's reasonable. Rather, society currently encourages hypocritical attitudes towards weight and generally seems to encourage giving fat people 'advice' in the form of ostracizing and treating them like shit.
People generally seem to consider being fat a special case where you're free to think and say whatever about the individual and enjoy lording yourself over them. Meanwhile, smoking, drinking, and plenty of other things that are commonly abused get a much freer pass from most people.
Added to that dismissive, simple-minded attitudes towards overweight people such as "stop eating six whoppers a day fatty" and many people who literally think anyone overweight is a bad person. We have those here on GAF. It's charming.
This is all actually counterproductive and doesn't really show one is concerned for overweight people, but rather just indulging in using them as, perhaps, the last major socially acceptable target to draw joy from their apparent suffering.
In my experience people are far kinder and more supportive of someone who says "I drink too much", than someone who is even a little overweight. It's getting quite stupid, especially since it doesn't take authentic morbid obesity to trigger the response anymore. Perhaps it is a symptom of a narcissistic culture afraid of visibly displaying imperfection, but it's far less socially acceptable to be perceived as overweight by ANY standard, than it is to smoke, to drink. For a lot of people, even doing drugs.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
"Conclusions
Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures."
lol.
if that's true then i suppose we cant accuse obese people of costing more though.
Absolutely. Just shitting on someone isn't going to encourage them to do anything positive.
LMAO, Dafuq?
I wonder what the result would be if you factor in reduced productivity and the loss of productive years for those who die before they reach retirement age because of their obesity.
...no?
I wouldn't persecute an alcoholic, I would try to get him some treatment. I wouldn't persecute obese people either, obviously.
Alcoholikaust
Member
Im 6'7' and 230 pounds.
I am a lean ex-marine.
She calls me "fat" and I will fill her doctors office with uppercut
Lol
I am a lean ex-marine.
She calls me "fat" and I will fill her doctors office with uppercut
Lol
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I agree with what others have said: while telling fat people "just stop eating fatty" isn't going to cause any mass change and probably just create hostility, obesity is in the majority of cases controllable. Anyone familiar with my posts in similar threads will know that I'm not saying "weight is completely personal responsibility, and anyone who's fat has only themselves to blame", but on some level, whether its individually or societally, obesity is a problem that we can combat and should combat.
brianjones
Member
as long as theyre not fat from drinking too much beer
make sure to limit your alcoholism to clear liquors
ReBurn
Gold Member
Of course not. Alcoholism is a social disease and people should not be expected to resist peer pressure. It's just not cool.
dinazimmerman
Incurious Bastard
Dude, those are textbook examples of backhanded compliments.
If you don't want to insult a fat person, don't mention anything about his weight or appearances to him at all. I will never personally or directly insult a lardass, but I'm not at all scared to disparage obesity or fatasses in general. Unhealthy habits should not be encouraged -- period.
And yeah, it is true that treating obese people like shit won't solve the obesity problem in this country, but that goes without saying. Serious problems require serious solutions, and if you treat anyone like shit, you're an asshole. However, that does not mean we need a "fat rights" movement. That's just a joke.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Certain people could stand to lose some weight, but we don't need to hate on anybody. I've read threads on GAF myself and thought, "If I mentally replace the topic with homosexuality there would be a lot of grayed-out usernames."
That doesn't mean the two should be compared as they are in this article, but it's interesting to see what is OK to hate at times and what is not.
That doesn't mean the two should be compared as they are in this article, but it's interesting to see what is OK to hate at times and what is not.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Even though their behavior is destructive to his or her own well being? Who says some who are obese are that way because of social pressure?
That is definitely true. And luckily I don't do any of those things either or encourage them.
But absolutely, you can't be a drunk or a drug addict and be picking on "fatty".
Just to add being just a little overweight is still very bad for you. It's scientifically proven at this point. And anyone can be at a healthy weight without having the body of a greek god.
There is legislation in place to punish destructive drinkers. And its not like anyone likes or respects alcoholics for their alcoholism, they recommend them get treatment for their lifestyle.
I feel like you didnt think this example through?
When 1 human is double the weight of what is considered the norm then they deserve to have the shit ripped out of them (im on about morbidly obese people not those carrying an extra few stone) , when someone gets to that size very rarely is it due to a "medical condition" that so many fat people claim, its greed and gluttony.
obviously depression can also have a negative effect on weight but if your a comfort eater and you eat to feel better only to get all miserable and depressed because your fat then there is no sympathy if your not even prepared to seek help.
Being a fatty is pretty much a choice, being gay is genetic there is no comparison.
I'm one of the laziest bastards i know, i spend the majority of my time sitting on my ass at work and at home playing games and i eat hell of alot (meal at lunch and tea time and i snack all day) i get about an hours exercise a day walking to and from work and that is more than enough to keep me between 10-11 stone.
obviously depression can also have a negative effect on weight but if your a comfort eater and you eat to feel better only to get all miserable and depressed because your fat then there is no sympathy if your not even prepared to seek help.
Being a fatty is pretty much a choice, being gay is genetic there is no comparison.
I'm one of the laziest bastards i know, i spend the majority of my time sitting on my ass at work and at home playing games and i eat hell of alot (meal at lunch and tea time and i snack all day) i get about an hours exercise a day walking to and from work and that is more than enough to keep me between 10-11 stone.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Obese people also get recommended treatment through lapband procedures and diets. I will concede on legislation part. The effects of obesity are not limited to the overweight person. Obesity like many other things (alcoholism, drug abuse) can also put pressure on relationships, and cause many other social problems.
Again, I am not trying to say we should form MAO (mothers against obesity) and grab our pitchforks and torches, but you have to admit that the problems of obesity only affect the person who is overweight.
With all the bullshit information and advertisement being passed around, it's no wonder people are getting fatter. All these commercials about these nonsense diet and exercise programs, high fructose corn syrup being healthy, foods with no net fat (replaced with more sugar and carbs), kids in schools being fed processed and refined foods.... people are going to have no idea what to do. But regardless of all this, there are still a lot of people who realize they have to shift their lifestyle, accept their situation but try to fix it. When I was younger, my family being a poor immigrant family, we had to rely on fast food a lot- making me an obese young child. Both puberty and a healthier lifestyle got rid of that, after doing a ton of research about the right types of foods and exercise. I admire those who know their situation and are dedicated to end it. I can't help but break out in a smile when I see the results.
It comforts me to know that, despite these idiots with their "fat acceptance" (no one should be cruel to those who are overweight or obese, but they don't have to stay that way!) there are people who are much smarter and are proud of their ideals and strength rather than their body type. Although, I feel a small tinge of regret, because these people no doubt feel guilt and disgust about their situation, but are just clueless about how to go about it that they have to make excuses.
It comforts me to know that, despite these idiots with their "fat acceptance" (no one should be cruel to those who are overweight or obese, but they don't have to stay that way!) there are people who are much smarter and are proud of their ideals and strength rather than their body type. Although, I feel a small tinge of regret, because these people no doubt feel guilt and disgust about their situation, but are just clueless about how to go about it that they have to make excuses.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Fat people and religious people are the only groups that it is still ok to hate. I would include Republicans, but most people seem to think that they are the same people in the first two groups.
I know at least three people that have gotten this already. Kinda sad that people have to go to these extremes to lose weight. I sure hope my kids don't turn out to be overweight because for some people there is no turning back.
Very true but we are a visual people. Obesity is more aesthetic (because who really cares about the health of a stranger at Macdonalds) so we instantly react to it, you know?
I don't think that smoking should be included on that list though. Mostly because it IS looked down upon in society. So much that, at least in NYC, we're going out of our way to ban it outright and make it a pain in the ass to do. You can't even smoke in public places anymore thank fucking god. Excessive drinking is also something that is looked down upon. Not really sure that should be on your list either.
Word
Steve Youngblood
Member
Hmm... on the one hand, I don't necessarily think that obesity needs a march or a pride parade or anything like that where people embrace that being unhealthily overweight is some sort of ideal or intrinsic aspect of their personality. However, I do think a lot of the critique and backlash against obesity is unfair and mean-spirited, and should be curtailed.
It's one thing to lay out helpful advice and encourage better eating and more activity. However, just in this thread alone, it's clear that many just view it as something they can deride -- a character flaw that they need not tap dance around. There's a sentiment that obesity is always a direct consequence of laziness and bad choices that is undeserving of sympathy or empathy.
And while perhaps some tough love may be better than coddling, I do think it often goes too far. Often times, a fat person is basically defined by that one characteristic and it's decided that open mockery and derision is perfectly acceptable. After all, "it's their own damn fault, and if they don't care about themselves then why should I?"
Personally, I don't think that mindset is the most productive way to deal with the problem of obesity.
It's one thing to lay out helpful advice and encourage better eating and more activity. However, just in this thread alone, it's clear that many just view it as something they can deride -- a character flaw that they need not tap dance around. There's a sentiment that obesity is always a direct consequence of laziness and bad choices that is undeserving of sympathy or empathy.
And while perhaps some tough love may be better than coddling, I do think it often goes too far. Often times, a fat person is basically defined by that one characteristic and it's decided that open mockery and derision is perfectly acceptable. After all, "it's their own damn fault, and if they don't care about themselves then why should I?"
Personally, I don't think that mindset is the most productive way to deal with the problem of obesity.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Weather isn't social or individual responsibility, it's a function of nature. Right now it's pretty warm out.
The only thing they really share, in my view, is that many people seem to be completely incapable of understanding the "other."
That is, just as some people seem to be incapable of understanding a homosexual -- and are threatened by them -- so too many people in good shape seem to be incapable of understanding why something that is relatively easy for them (i.e. staying skinny or staying in shape) is in fact too difficult for someone else.
This is also a common perception on GAF. It seems rather obviously misguided to me, but then, it's always the case that people have trouble understanding why something that is easy for them is hard for someone else. I picture the obese businessman wondering why the fit jock doesn't pick himself up by his bootstraps and do better at school so he can get a great job like his, while the jock wonders how the businessman can be so fat.
We all have our weaknesses, so unless we want to insist everyone be highly academically successful, professionally successful, fit and healthy, and contributing generously to charity, we should probably avoid intense criticism for this wide array of personal failings. Homosexuality, however, isn't such a weakness; it's just another thing that people seem incapable of empathizing with.
That is, just as some people seem to be incapable of understanding a homosexual -- and are threatened by them -- so too many people in good shape seem to be incapable of understanding why something that is relatively easy for them (i.e. staying skinny or staying in shape) is in fact too difficult for someone else.
This is also a common perception on GAF. It seems rather obviously misguided to me, but then, it's always the case that people have trouble understanding why something that is easy for them is hard for someone else. I picture the obese businessman wondering why the fit jock doesn't pick himself up by his bootstraps and do better at school so he can get a great job like his, while the jock wonders how the businessman can be so fat.
We all have our weaknesses, so unless we want to insist everyone be highly academically successful, professionally successful, fit and healthy, and contributing generously to charity, we should probably avoid intense criticism for this wide array of personal failings. Homosexuality, however, isn't such a weakness; it's just another thing that people seem incapable of empathizing with.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Godamnit.
ReBurn
Gold Member
But shame and ridicule is the only way some people learn.
Obesity is a preventable medical condition, not an 'imaginary illness' as this article makes it seem.
It is absolutely nothing like homosexuality.
'Fat rights activists' is a ridiculous term. Raising awareness on the difficulties of being obese is one thing, but equating extreme fatness with unalterable states of being? Come on now.
Prejudice against fat people may be a problem, but the state of being fat is not one that has to be permanent, and is not one that should be entered into in the first place.
Basically: there should be a move away from obesity in our society. It should not become 'acceptable' or 'normal'; homosexuality should become an acceptable branch of normal living.
I don't think obese people should be dehumanized or demeaned, but there should be standards in place to improve diets and further education on nutrition and health.
It is absolutely nothing like homosexuality.
'Fat rights activists' is a ridiculous term. Raising awareness on the difficulties of being obese is one thing, but equating extreme fatness with unalterable states of being? Come on now.
Prejudice against fat people may be a problem, but the state of being fat is not one that has to be permanent, and is not one that should be entered into in the first place.
Basically: there should be a move away from obesity in our society. It should not become 'acceptable' or 'normal'; homosexuality should become an acceptable branch of normal living.
I don't think obese people should be dehumanized or demeaned, but there should be standards in place to improve diets and further education on nutrition and health.
So fucking true, people think drinking every weekend and getting hungover is so cool, nobody tells them hey you are a burden on health care, and all that bullshit that some people trow at fat people.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, maybe. However, there a couple of things to consider. One is that not everyone responds well to such stimuli, and in fact may just feel further ostracized while not providing genuine motivation to improve their situation. The other is that saying it's all about motivation is often disingenuous when the comment was only meant to be derisive and condescending.
Absolutely, that needs to be considered as well. "Don't be a jerk to fat people, we all have our weaknesses" is a fairly large step away from "Obesity is not a weakness, it's just a natural genetic condition."
Tragicomedy
Member
I'm not in favor of bashing anyone for their physical appearance, but for people to try and tie in obesity to homosexuality is absurd. Even if people have a predisposition to weight gain, they are still choosing to eat those extra calories every day. My younger brother never chose to be gay.
It says something about the victimization mentality of our culture that some overweight people choose to paint themselves as discriminated against or victims. Life choices, man. Fat people can workout, eat less, and get fit. I think the Biggest Loser (as awful as that show is) has proved as much. Gay people can't make subtle lifestyle changes and "correct" anything, as there is no problem with them.
Being gay = disposition to like the same sex, zero harm to society
Being fat = disposition to eat too much and not work out enough, extremely costly to society
It says something about the victimization mentality of our culture that some overweight people choose to paint themselves as discriminated against or victims. Life choices, man. Fat people can workout, eat less, and get fit. I think the Biggest Loser (as awful as that show is) has proved as much. Gay people can't make subtle lifestyle changes and "correct" anything, as there is no problem with them.
Being gay = disposition to like the same sex, zero harm to society
Being fat = disposition to eat too much and not work out enough, extremely costly to society
This isn't true at all and smacks of persecution syndrome.
You can publicly hate atheists and no one would care. You can hate SOME minority religious groups, i.e scientology, but you cannot publicly hate the powerful religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism). Any politician who spoke out against the Judaic or Christian groups can watch their campaign be mudslinged to death. Or any celebrity who doesn't like Jews? Get out of Hollywood, Nazi. Let's not pretend we haven't heard Mel Gibson making an ass of himself over that.
Islam...would depend on the area. Some people would flat out cheer, others would just uncomfortably change the subject.
Still don't believe me? Presidents can and have insulted atheists all the time, but they would NEVER risk insulting Christians. How long would it be until the US has a non-Christian president?
Note I say public, as in real life. Internet is not real life.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Or, as "fat rights groups" sometimes seem to express, "be proud of your obesity"
The_Inquisitor
Member
What about those who believe physical abnormalities or defects are okay? For example, there are many deaf people who believe cochlear implants are offensive to deaf people. How do they come into play here?
Wait, what? Why would anyone be offended by a device that could help their condition?
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